Dark Days Ahead?

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by TheOneBigWill, May 26, 2010.

  1. TheOneBigWill

    TheOneBigWill [This Space for Rent]

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    Simply put, should the Undertaker turn heel. He's mainly always been a face because of the fact that he isn't a full time worker and when he's on any show, he always receives massive pops. So it makes sense to keep him face.

    However, those few and far between moments of darkness in which he truly was evil. (I'm mainly recalling the Ministry days) He was on top, and not just as a side-show attraction. He was one of the true best at what he does and bringing in ratings.

    While the Company is in this PG era as it were, I doubt they could/would swing with sacrifices and devilish forced weddings. However, in the near future (once Smackdown establishes better faces beyond the Big Show, Christian and Kofi Kingston) would it be in the Undertaker's best interest.. to turn heel?

    Could this work? If so, how?

    The way I see it, Smackdown's top heels are; Jack Swagger, C.M. Punk and Drew McIntyre. None of them, with minor exception to Punk, have what it takes to carry a brand as the top heel. The Undertaker could do it. What does everyone think?

    Make sure to explain yourselves. Explain how you feel this would or would not work. Add examples of what could happen to make this work, or why you truly feel it'd never work for the Undertaker again.
     
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  2. Via Armbar

    Via Armbar Has a pretty good dick.

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    There would be a major face void on Smackdown. You have Big Show who is currently doing a decent job at being the show's top face but other than him you have Mysterio as the other top face. Not to knock either of those men but neither should be carrying a show. Not to mention Taker would be feuding with those two guys more than likely. I really don't see Show being able to have the crowd on his side against Taker whether the deadman was a heel or not. Show can get acceptable pops against guys like Swagger but Taker is someone that really can transcend the whole face/heel dynamic. Mysterio could possibly get the crowd on his side if Undertaker really took it to him with random beat downs and sneak attacks. Really though, does that sound like Taker? That just doesn't fit the character.

    He can always play things up a little heelish. He did at certain points with Michaels so he is certainly capable of getting booed. The situation has to be just right though. You need a mega face for him to feud with and there are few in the WWE right now. The angle also has to be right. People really understood that Michaels could retire and they didn't want it to happen. A normal feud over a title just isn't going to do the trick. There is no point in turning him completely heel at this time in his career. He probably only has a year or two left and going through the transformation I feel would be needed to do it just isn't productive. It would be interesting for sure, but very unlikely and incredibly hard to pull of completely.
     
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  3. Mighty NorCal

    Mighty NorCal SHALL WE BEGIN?

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    LULZ good luck with that. The Undertaker could chokeslam a baby and still get a face reaction.

    Preposterous idea anyway, SD already has a DIRE lack of major face talent, why on fucking earth would you turn the most over face they have? They only have about 3 or 4 legit guys as it is, turning one of them would be nuts.
     
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  4. Nate DaMac

    Nate DaMac Fuck erbody but me

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    Simply put, I just don't think it would work. From a strictly shock value standpoint, it would be excellent...... for about a month. Then the shock dissolves and reality sets in: There is only one face on Smackdown that could believably and truly defeat him, and that's The Big Show. Does anyone really want to see that program dragged out for 2-3 months? I'm not one to bash Show, but as a face, feuding with brash heels like Miz, Swagger, and Jericho are far more entertaining than watching him go up against someone like Taker. And even after all of that, who would be next? Christian? Meh. It would be alright but if Christian were to get even a fluky victory over him, it would be forgotten immediately. Kofi? You'd dislocate your shoulder trying to reach for that one. Maybe Kane. Lord knows that has never happened before. I just don't think there's any logical reason to make this happen. You'd have to bring Cena or Orton to Smackdown, I don't even think HHH would get a face reaction against Taker.
     
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  5. Theo Mays

    Theo Mays Part Time Poster

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    While it is a good idea in retrospective, I just couldn't see it happening. Taker gets a good reaction no matter what he does and rarely will he get booed (I remember some boos during his stuff with HBK, but HBK got some as well. Pretty much just who you preferred). Plus SD is lacking in the face department more so than the heel department in my mind. Yes they have Mysterio, but I don't see Rey as the top drawing face of a brand and in main event feuds for the title. I think the role he has now is much better suited for him. Taker when he returns will be the top face and will likely work a program with Swagger over the title down the road. The positive thing with having Taker as a face is that he elevates the heel to a step above where they were before working with him. Whatever heel works with Taker will get some needed heat and the guys like Swagger and McIntyre who need some more heat will only benefit. I'm not sure if Taker was a heel he'd help the faces out like that. Those that prefer Taker would still take him over the faces.
     
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  6. Big Nick Dudley

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    It's been said already, but Smackdown just doesn't have a babyface on it's roster that could get the crowd to boo Taker. Big Show is doing alright against Swagger, but I think that has a lot to do with Show being a veteran guy, a familiar face. Swagger is new to the title scene, so there isn't a face he could wrestle that wouldn't look credible against him.

    Christian just isn't on Taker's level. He's over with the fans, but not like Taker, not even close (nothing wrong with that, Taker is about as over as you can get right now). Also, Christian is more of a comedic face, which wouldn't play well in having a feud with a supernatural character like Taker. Kofi..yeah, he isn't ready for that feud, not even close.

    To be honest, I'm not sure there is a babyface on the entire WWE roster that could get the crowd to boo Taker. Cena is the most popular, obviously. But would live crowds really side with Cena over Taker (kids would, no doubt)? I think in some cities, yes (Boston, obviously). But in a lot of cities, I could see Cena taking the majority of the heat, regardless of storyline. Same goes for Orton. He is probably the hottest face they have going right now, but could they be sure that Taker would be booed as a heel?

    I just feel, at this point in Taker's career, it would be really, really hard to get him serious heat from any live crowd. I have a feeling you could have him kayfabe murder someone on television, and the crowd would go nuts for him. I'm just not sure there is anything he could do to make the crowd hate him anymore.
     
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  7. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    I think it's kinda obvious that Undertaker will be very very hard to turn into a heel, while it can be done, we have to remember this is the guy who got a face reaction against Shawn Michaels, at both Wrestlemania's, this is the guy who gets one of the companies biggest pops, if not the biggest (I may question it, I have to compare him with Cena and Randy at the same show first)

    As many people have said, turning Undertaker heel would leave a large void on Smackdown, a large void in WWE overall I feel, but ultimately, as I said, it would be hard, he'd get cheered for the most of it anyway, because, it may be me, but I just feel there's always been somewhat of a heel characteristic over Undertaker, I believe he's been classified as a tweener for the most of his career, due to being cheered, even if he chokeslams the shit out of a guy like John Cena, who he fucking tombstoned, and still got cheered.

    I wouldn't mind seeing them attempt to turn Undertaker, but I ultimately, won't be surprised if it failed.
     
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  8. Serious Mozzarella

    Serious Mozzarella Special Victims Unit

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    Well the problem with that is that anyone put up against Undertaker is going to look like the underdog, whether or not they have a champion. If you put 'Taker in a feud with someone like Rey Rey, to establish his heel-turn, and have him do some nasty shit, I'm sure you could squeeze some heel reactions from the live audience, if you really, really tried. I mean, worst case scenario, you'll get a tweener, Randy Orton type pop.

    I think turning him heel would work, but it probably won't be a good idea, what with the 4(?) faces on Smackdown right now?
     
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  9. MoneyMack

    MoneyMack Getting Noticed By Management

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    As most people have already mentioned- Smackdown is lacking faces currently. So I dont really see it happening anytime soon. But I would love to see Taker as a heel one last time before he decides to hang up his boots & retire.

    How would I do it? First- let me say that putting him up against guys like Cena or ReyRey isnt the best way to do it IMO. Too many fans love Taker & will cheer him no matter what he does- as some of you have suggested he murder someone. SO- How would I do it myself??

    I personally think theres only ONE way to do this heel turn correctly & I dont know if the guy im thinking about is still available to work. Bring back Paul Bearer with Undertakers Urn! Taker wouldnt be able to talk for himself anymore. Paul Bearer now "owns" the Undertakers soul again & Taker does whatever Bearer tells him to do. THEN & only then does PB have Taker start taking out the companies top faces. Taker goes back to worshiping PB, but even more- the urn. THIS is the ONLY way I personally can see Taker being a heel ever again. Some "veteran fans" will still love Taker- its a given. But taking the mic out of his hand and making him work under Paul Bearer again would turn alot, if not all of the "younger generation" of Taker fans.

    This would be how I would do it. & I REALLY think it would work. Its funny this topic was just brought up- cuz I was talking with my friends the other day about: Undertaker needing to turn heel ONE last time before retirement.
     
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  10. sikkbones

    sikkbones the root of all evil

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    you wanna have taker turn heel? make it easy... have him shave his head and join the straight edge society.
     
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  11. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    Since abandoning the American Badass character, the WWE has developed The Undertaker into this almost mythical and, to some degree, godlike force that almost only appears when something important is going down. Or, his appearance sometimes makes whatever angle he's involved in an important one.

    I think that it would be difficult to make The Undertaker a heel at this stage in his career and, to be honest, I don't really think its needed. The Undertaker is the strongest face on Smackdown, hands down, and Smackdown needs an extremely strong face. Back during the days of the Ministry of Darkness, Taker was involved in segments that literally made a lot of people uncomfortable. The depiction of occult activities, even though it was on pro wrestling, generated a pretty hefty degree of controversy during the Attitude Era. In order for Taker to be turned heel successfully at this point, I think the PG rating would have to go and the Lord of Darkness character would have to make a return.

    However, people wanna cheer for The Undertaker. I'd dare say that he's almost become "beloved" by many WWE fans. I like what they've done with The Undertaker, fans seem to enjoy it so if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
     
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  12. Serious Mozzarella

    Serious Mozzarella Special Victims Unit

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    If you put ANYBODY up against ReyRey, it's instant heel-city. Rey Mysterio is like the Heel Express train.

    This doesn't make any sense for a few reasons.

    • It won't make Undertaker heel, it'll just give Paul Bearer heat, unless Undertaker initiated bringing back the urn, then bringing back Paul Bearer later... but even then, people will just pop/mark out for Paul Bearer.
    • Undertaker has turned against Paul Bearer before, even when Paul Bearer had the urn. I know continuity isn't one of WWE's strong-points, but come on, people know the Undertaker, especially because he's using the same exact gimmick.
     
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  13. Ferbian

    Ferbian Has Returned.

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    The problem is, that's already been done, and Undertaker was still cheered, and he tombstoned John Cena, both huge faces, and he was still cheered.

    Undertaker is the kind of person that will as I said, be very hard to turn heel, especially after the popularity he has gained over the last few years, he's getting cheered over the biggest faces of the company, the greater wrestlers of specific gimmick match or event (Shawn Michaels in general), so while they still may come off as faces, the majority of times, people facing Undertaker are somewhat booked heels, or as a face vs face.
     
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  14. Daniel

    Daniel Of Ace Stevens fame.

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    To put it simply, no, I don't think he should turn heel. I don't think it could work. Taker is a legend and will get pops anywhere he goes. He could chain John Cena to the Undertaker symbol in the middle of the arena and still be cheered. He could hang Rey Mysterio in the middle of the ring and people would still go nuts. And like NorCal said, he could probably get away with chokeslamming a baby.
    The practicality of it too is a problem. There are no strong faces in the main event of Smackdown. Big Show isn't massively over, after all. Christian isn't really 'there' and Rey-Rey is taking a break.
    Its kind of thought that Undertaker is leaving in the next two years, or so. He would have to turn heel, and then turn face before he leaves. Because I don't think Taker will leave a heel. He'll leave as one of the legendary faces.
     
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  15. maar130

    maar130 Getting Noticed By Management

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    Nope, been there done that and both times it happened it was Rey who got the booed out of the arena at Chrismas and the Royal Rumble.

    The thing is they have tried to do a few times, but it just doesn't work, People want to cheer for the Undertaker even if he goes against the biggest faces in the company, only two times since he came back as the Dead man I have heard people boo Taker with passion, when he was telling people on Raw how he was going to end HBK's career and the next time in Raw the one booed was HBK talking about Taker, and the next one was the night of Shawn's farewell speech, but as soon as he got out people cheered for him again.

    More than anything his long run and status had made him more than just someone who can be good or bad, so they just let it go with the flow of he being cheered.
     
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  16. theundisputedY2D2

    theundisputedY2D2 Dark Match Winner

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    It's been said already but I think it would be pretty much impossible to turn the Undertaker heel. There's no-one on the current roster that could go up against Taker and get a better reaction than him, even the uber-faces John Cena & Rey Mysterio have been solidly booed against him.

    Sure he had the fans turn against him somewhat in his Wrestlemania 26 feud with Shawn Michaels, but even that was at best 50/50, and although they booed when the gong hit the next night on RAW, once Taker did the old tip of the hat to HBK, all was forgiven again. If a living legend like Shawn Michaels can't get an audience to turn on the Undertaker then no-one can. Not Cena, Mysterio, Orton or even HHH.

    I think maybe the only guy who could even come close to getting the Undertaker turned heel would be Bret Hart, but that angle would be difficult to pull off without it turning physical.
     
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  17. future admin

    future admin Getting Noticed By Management

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    no, he really shouldn't turn heel, Smackdown doesn't need another Heel main eventer. Right now there is only The Big Show, Rey (who is going to take a break for a while) and maybe even Kane, there is enough heels to last Smackdown for a while. So no, no Undertaker should not turn Heel
     
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  18. The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh

    The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh Tell me what's on ur so called mind

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    What can i say that hasn't been said 20 times already......

    Ok, remember during his 'Big Evil' stint when he was 'American Bad Ass Taker'? He started that heel turn by beating the crap out of JR and forcing him to kiss Vince's ass.

    Then he went on to attack Austin, and Rock, and Flair, and Hogan, and HHH and even had that ladder match with Jeff Hardy. Now, Austin and Rock he got booed against. Against everyone else, fans cheered the Deadman, regardless.

    He was bashing Ric Flair's son, then beat Flair at WM and even beat Arn Anderson up on more than one occassion. Still got cheered.
    He cost HHH the title. Still got cheered.
    He beat Hogan for the title and then beat him up even more afterward. Still got cheered.
    He beat the living high hell out of Jeff Hardy. Still got cheered.

    So why are they going to boo him now?

    You put him in the ring against Kofi Kingston, and i wouldn't be surprised if 'Taker's gonna kill you' chants started up.

    He could jump the guardrail and bash some fans with a chair, and he'd still get a standing ovation as he walked up the ramp.

    The Undertaker's persona is one of a supernatural behemoth who exists purely to enflict pain and punishment on others, whether they deserve it or not, and that's as a face!!!! How could you ever expect to get a whole arena to boo him, without transforming him into a pathetic pussy heel who won by cheap tactics consistently, while at the same time maintaining the Undertaker gimmick?

    I have to agree with the majority, it's far too late for Taker heel turns. Even though i prefer heel Taker, because he talks more, he sells more convincingly, and his character is simply that easier to relate to.

    Which is more realistic? The old western Undertaker or the Satanic dude with a cult? The undead MMA fighter or the Biker that likes to cripple people?

    Let him be the special attraction as he is. He'll draw regardless, and tweaking him at this late stage in his career would simply be unneccessary i feel.
     
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  19. Ruthless-RKO

    Ruthless-RKO F*ck Friends, Rather die wiv ma AK!

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    I would love to see him back in the ministry days...there are problems...

    Smackdown have a lot of heels, Taker isn't who is once was 10 years ago, he has aged over the 10 years...IMO, he will stay a face til retirement...look at shawn michaels, when he returned, he was more or less a face til the end aswell...i think the same will be with taker...

    plus wwe don't have the characters now like they used to...like a dar tag team: Acolytes, then you got mideon, gangrel was there, viscera...WWE don't create these types of characters anymore and they simply can't be replaced....i mean who would you put in his group...becuase the way i see it, the undertaker heel character must work with minions...
     
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  20. Super Geng Boy

    Super Geng Boy New Member

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    I love how Cm Punk talks about not taking drugs and alcohol and he is one of the biggest heels in the business but Undertaker takes people to hell and is a face, the wrestling business is a funny old one.

    Back to topic.

    I do think it would have to do with a major face void on Smackdown which is always a great point. I just do not think it will work. I feel they tried it with HBK earlier on in the year. During his promo after Elimination Chamber he was talking like a heel, and to what? Cheers. The Undertaker has been about 20 years and put his body on the line for millions of people. I think people appreciate him too much to boo him. Like I said I think it is funny though, I mean he talks about taking people to hell and taking souls, yet he is a face?

    Armbar is also correct, Big Show and ReyRey do good jobs but not good enough to carry a whole show, The Undertaker just has this mystery that even when he is not there, you know he could be.

    In conclusion I think that although it is a good idea Undertaker turning heel this late in his career would not work.
     
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  21. The Big Gunnzbowski

    The Big Gunnzbowski Damas y Caballeros...

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    Holy shit... I read this in someone's sig, and thought about it. As I imagined it, I realized that my reaction turned to horror. Not because of the vision of The Undertaker chokeslamming a baby, but because I had laughed so hard, I could not breathe. I thought I was going to die at that very instant...because The Undertaker had hypothetically choke slammed a baby in my mind and I cheered with the crowd... Thanks, NorCal. You've almost killed me in real life twice now... and I've never even met you.


    The Undertaker just retired Shawn Michaels... He got cheered. I remember leaving the arena after 'Mania in utter shock, that my favorite wrestler EVER, just lost a "career" match. I'll never forget looking into the kids' eyes 3 or 4 rows behind me, as I walked past. He was sitting there, in his fathers arms crying because HBK was gone. And his dad was cheering. The Undertaker would have to tombstone a room full of terminally ill children for a heel turn, and even then I'm pretty sure I'd cheer...
     
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  22. Freddy4190

    Freddy4190 Championship Contender

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    It's not possible. There is not a face in wrestling right now that could make Undertaker go heel. Shawn Michaels was the last one that had a chance against him, and he's gone. Triple H? No. Cena? No. He'd be cheered for taking out Cena. Rey? lol. Maybe Jeff Hardy had a chance.. but that's not gonna happen now, is it?!
     
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  23. rammsteiner

    rammsteiner Dark Match Jobber

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    I don't think there's any possible way that you could turn The Undertaker heel.

    The last time they tried to do that, it didn't work. The crowd didn't buy into him being heel.

    And there's no bigger babyface on the SmackDown! roster than Undertaker. They would have to really, REALLY take the time to build someone up into a massive babyface, one the crowd actually likes.
     
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  24. MoneyMack

    MoneyMack Getting Noticed By Management

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    Why does everyone keep talking about the Undertaker not being able to go heel, because no other face wrestler could get him over as a heel? I guess im the only one that read my previous post in this thread. Evidently most of you have overlooked my comments.

    I suggested there was NO wrestler that could get him to turn heel. We agree there- no doubt about it. I suggested near the bottom of page one of this thread that: THEE ONLY way to get Taker over as a heel is to bring back Paul Bearer as his manager. Take the mic out of Takers hands. PB is Takers mouthpiece- just like back in the day. Taker worships PB & his urn. Im not sure what more I can say to get my point over.

    Undertaker no longer has a mind of his own anymore. He only does what Bearer tells him to do. & what Bearer tells him to do is: Destroy ever single face character that PB puts in front of him. If adding Paul Bearer doesnt seem to be getting him over as a heel- then thats when good ole' Vinny-Mac steps back in. Then Vince turns into PB's puppet master, while PB is Takers puppet master.

    THIS is probably the ONLY way to even have a chance to get Undertaker over as a heel. Its NOT going to be another wrestler that does it! Its been proved in the past- it cant happen that way. It MUST be a puppet master type gimmick- where Taker is basically just taking orders from PB. Or maybe even VKM if PB isnt available.

    It all comes down to the power of The Urn! Bring back the urn. The Urn held by Paul Bearer can make Taker a heel again. If anyone/anything can get it done, its PB w/urn in hand.
     
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  25. Chargersfan1901

    Chargersfan1901 Dark Match Winner

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    I don't know about you guys, but I'm kind of getting tired of the same old undertaker. So I have an idea..

    A few months back after the Elimination chamber Undertaker received his burns, and the following Smackdown he wore the new outfit. When seeing it, I got super excited hoping that he would be wearing that permanently, but unfortunately not. But it got me thinking, could a heel change be exciting for undertaker? I kinda thought of a little plan that would happen at WM26, involving him turning heel. Never really happened, of course.

    But, It recently got sparked back into my mind for three reasons, for one when i watched CSR and Josh talked about bringing back the old Undertaker. The one with the purple gloves, not biker gloves. Not the one piece. Secondly, when I watched Smackdown friday. His little storyline got me thinking.. then the third reason is when Wrestlezone learned that Kane will be receiving a push. All three of these things could lead to a wonderful Undertaker heel change & storyline..

    Now, I know we've seen this in the past. But it might be interesting to see, especially since it's a bit different. What if over the next few weeks, they push Kane through a storyline of emotion. Of trying to discover what exactly happened to his brother. I can't think of exact details, but the Undertaker comes back. But, when he comes back, he's a whole new man. He's returned too a ministry type outfit. Possibly the black gloves, cape, all of it. He returns to the ring, but instead of greeting the Big Red Monster with a compasionate feeling, he strikes at him. He gives dirty looks to the crowd. A new taker is born.

    Now I know the old ministry undertaker can't exactly return, because of the PG era, but we can try and recreate a similar, yet still exciting version. Like him taking out Cena. Possibly forming another faction. And also the fact that he's getting toward his last few years and can't leave the WWE as a heel, but its still possible.


    What are your thoughts? Do you agree or disagree? Are they any ideas you think that could improve a heel turn?
     
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