Could a black wrestler ever be #1?

[The Harlem Heat]

Now hear me out, as with the majority of American culture, wrestling is a sport dominated by white people. From Hogan to Austin, to HHH, to taker, to Cena, to Orton, to Rhodes. Don't get me wrong the occasional black wrestler finds their way through, Mark Henry, Booker T and Bobby Lashley stand out. But my question is could a black wrestler ever be the number one face of the company, in the same light John Cena is at the moment? I would say not; Lashley was 10x the wrestler Cena was/is. Booker was 10x the wrestler Hogan was/IS. Both were adequate on the mic, Booker in particular but neither were given the push they deserved.

Now fair enough the Rock was number one. But he isn't black, he's brown.

 

[Foshinzo]

So...being half-black doesn't make you black at all? Somebody had better tell Nike about Tiger, then.

I suppose if we're talking about, "real" black people, then yes, I do believe that a black man could be the top dog, somewhere. WCW tried it with Ron Simmons, though Bill Watts was just trying to recreate the magic he had with JYD in Mid-South. Though, the fact that JYD was so popular in the friggin Mid-South territories says that it shouldn't be too much of an issue. I think the problem is that America, across all the states, loves the token black man. So, when R-Truth comes out smoking the cigarette and acting gangster, we can't have that as the face of our billion dollar corporation; we have to tone that down with Civil War costumes and calling people, "Jimmy." Not to be so disrespectful towards R-Truth, but at those times, he was very much being a token black character; he's black, but in the white way.

Honestly, I hate this argument. Name one black man that should have been #1 at that time, and then we'll talk about why he, not all black men, didn't succeed. This conversation leads to Vince McMahon being a racist, which I've seen a lot, but outside of Booker, name one black wrestler who should have been on top of the WWF. Ahmed Johnson was a dangerous wrestler and an average entertainer, Koko B Ware dug his own grave, and Shelton Benjamin could never get over. What about Mark Henry? He's doing pretty well as the champion on Smackdown.

He's not #1 on Raw, which I guess is what you mean, but he's pretty much #1 on Smackdown, and does that not count at all for something?

 

[gamma2008]

The Rock was black enough to be considered for this question. If the issue is that he's gotta be black as shoe polish, then Mark Henry's doing a damn good job and he's certainly darker. If it's "acting black," then that just means that a wrestler needs to be some sort of stereotypical character to earn consideration. VKM seems to love casting people in stereotype roles, but I'm content saying The Rock and Henry are both black and did/is doing well with the championship, respectively.

 

[Kane-a-Roonie]

1. The Rock.

2. Yes. Im black and i have never once thought that the WWE was racist (toward black people anyway). Yes there are/were great black wrestlers who never were top stars. Shelton Benjamin for one. In my eyes the greatest athlete on the roster when he was there and awesome to watch but he couldnt draw any reaction from they crowd.

Lashley was massively over and could have held the title, but face of the company? I couldnt see it.

So yes a Black wrestler could be number one, if they where good enough.

 

[b the man]

Isn't Mark Henry the World Heavyweight Champion? Or are you going to bitch about the fact that he's a heel and not a face? I swear there is no pleasing people like you. It's the whole "well yes The Rock, but he's not really black, he's only somewhat black." all over again.

 

[Miko]

Yes, he just has to sell tickets, not at the front gate mind, people just have to pay to see him, or tune in, because I suppose tv ratings help as well, as well as PPV buys.

Yes.

 

[jnapoli85]

whats a real black person as opposed to a fake one

 

[voice of chi-town43rd]

hey,some black wrestlers do not get the right respect,but which one stands out? i think bobo brazil or jyd could have carried a company but im talking about at least from 1990-now(i said from the 90s because we have a lot of young cats that really dont know wrestling but cena,orton, or beer money) but lets face it,booker didnt get that push in wwe like he deserve and mark henry is a breath of fresh air so far.you can put the rock in there but hes half-black! ive been a fan for 30 years and im not a racist cause taker is the greatest of all time,but wwe/impact needs to give more blacks at least a chance to show that they can be main eventers as well! if bookie is on this thread,wat up! its chico!

 

[[cL]]

I have been a part of these forums for a long time now and I've read some DUMB stuff in my time, but to say the Rock "isn't black, he's brown" is by far, one of the most ignorant things i've ever read. The Rock's mother is Samoan, but his father is 100% black. And for those of you who don't know genealogy let me explain. The father's blood, NOT the mothers blood, is whats pumping in those veins. So as much as his hair is wavy and as many Samoan tribal tattoos as he may have, to him, the rest of the world and his DADDY, THAT man, is a BLACK man. And to answer your question, that BLACK man was THEE number one man in the company for quite some time and NOT ONLY THAT, THAT man is one of thee most iconic men to have ever step foot in a wrestling ring in this or any other generation.
Black men who are trying to do the right thing and make it have a hard enough time trying to get over with ignorant people of other races trying to cast judgement on them...and here YOU go, a BLACK man, holding half of his race against him. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
Talk about a thread that needs to IMMEDIATELY be closed down.

 

[Daniel]

Um, yes. As long as a black person makes more money than anyone else, there will one day be another black face of the company. Don't give me all that "Booker was better than Hogan" bullshit. He wasn't. That's why Booker wasn't number one and Hogan was. That's all it comes down to. Not the colour of someone's skin.

Your "not black, but brown" argument is both confusing and bullshit in equal measure. Don't black people have brown skin? Isn't your argument about non-white people not being the face of the company? The Rock completely disproves the whole premise of your argument.

 

[Defekt]

The rock does not have typical black physical features or speak in a way typically associated with black people. Compare The Rock vs R-Truth. This is obviously what he means by "real" black person.

As for if a black guy could ever be #1, yeah I think it's possible. All people are a bit xenophobic and tend to look for heroes they can relate to. Since the majority of wrestling fans are white, white wrestlers have an advantage when it comes to connecting to the fans. This is true with most fields of entertainment. Look at how many white Eminem fans there were who didn't really listen to rap otherwise.

But then you have a guy like Rey Mysterio, who while not #1 in the company, probably could have been if the WWE had wanted him to.

So yeah, if the right guy came along it could happen.

 

[The Future Rises]

Of course a black wrestler can be the top guy if he was THAT good in every category and if he was THAT over with the crowd. Has a black wrestler ever had those two factors? No offense but no. Shelton Benjamin is a phenomenal athlete but he flat out sucked on the mic and had no personality.

Lashley would be one of the top guys right now but he had to leave. He had the "IT" factor but he left. The WWE didn't just let go of him he had to leave because of "circumstances beyond his control". If I remember correctly he was there by the time he was forced to part way with the WWE. And by there I mean the WWE was actually pushing him big time and giving him a feud with John Cena for the WWE title. Lashley had a PPV match with Cena only to lose in a hard fought match. I think he would've been something big if he had stayed.

So to answer your question yes a black wrestler can be one of the WWE's "golden boys" if he had the "IT" factor. It has absolutely nothing to with skin color. If the guy was that damn good then he would be a top guy. Plain and simple.

 

[MDR2k10]

Um, yes. As long as a black person makes more money than anyone else, there will one day be another black face of the company. Don't give me all that "Booker was better than Hogan" bullshit. He wasn't. That's why Booker wasn't number one and Hogan was. That's all it comes down to. Not the colour of someone's skin.

Your "not black, but brown" argument is both confusing and bullshit in equal measure. Don't black people have brown skin? Isn't your argument about non-white people not being the face of the company? The Rock completely disproves the whole premise of your argument.

booker was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than hogan as a wrestler and more athletic. imo, i think he was a better wrestler than the rock. but its about getting over with the fans and entertainment at the end of the day. and its no secret that vince doesnt like "wCw boys" so even if booker was really over with the crowd, whether he deserved it or not, he would never be the top dog

 

[Daniel]

booker was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than hogan as a wrestler and more athletic. imo, i think he was a better wrestler than the rock. but its about getting over with the fans and entertainment at the end of the day.

Damn straight it's about getting over with the fans (to ultimately make money). And Hogan was more over with the fans and made more money than Booker T ever could.

As for the in-ring performance aspect: I don't know. I haven't seen enough Hogan and Booker matches to really say who's better. But from the writings of individuals whom I respect the opinions of, Hogan was better in the ring.

and its no secret that vince doesnt like "wCw boys" so even if booker was really over with the crowd, whether he deserved it or not, he would never be the top dog

Not true. Vince McMahon doesn't hold grudges. It would make no sense for him to. If pushing a wrestler would be financially beneficial to him and WWE, he would do it. Booker T not being number one had nothing to do with him being a WCW guy and everything to do with the fact that there were better people than him.

 

[MaxPlastic]

Honestly, this is a terrible question. Mark Henry is champion RIGHT NOW! If you mean number one in the entire company, then yes. The Rock handled that quite nicely. Could it happen again? Yes, if he drew money. Does Obama not count as a real black President? And in what United States do you live in where most sports are dominated by white people?

 

[guesswho969]

lets leave the president out of this because there are people out there who dont consider him to be REAL black. and lets not get into it.

and yes a black wrestler can be that guy. and have you been watching smackdown. mark henry is having one of the best championship run in a long time. it doesnt look like he is going to lose anytime soon. and he beat orton clean in two back to back ppvs how many people can say that.

 

[Da Truth]

The not black but brown comment was kinda dum, but I do see your point to a certain extent, and people stop sayin Mark Henry is the champion now; Harlem Heat is talking about the top face of the company. My answer is yes it could happen but not for a long time. I've always said this about the WWE & Vince, if they really wanted someone to be the top guy then they would be the top guy. We've seen a plenty of black wrestlers who had a lot of charisma and wrestling ability but just didn't get the same push. I respect what Cena does but R Truth had the rap gimmick before him, but E push Cena to the moon with the rap album and all that. Truth really is the better wrestler with just about as much charisma as he. But its all about marketing. It's all about the look and selling merchandise, most of the white top faces in history are safe so to speak in the subconscious of the american buyer. It's like a study CNN ran a few years ago, America feels more comfortable around lighter skinned blacks than darker skinned black. It's the same with WWE marketing. We always make better heels for some reason in WWE's eyes.

 

[RicoLen]

1. The Rock.

2. Yes. Im black and i have never once thought that the WWE was racist (toward black people anyway). Yes there are/were great black wrestlers who never were top stars. Shelton Benjamin for one. In my eyes the greatest athlete on the roster when he was there and awesome to watch but he couldnt draw any reaction from they crowd.

Lashley was massively over and could have held the title, but face of the company? I couldnt see it.

So yes a Black wrestler could be number one, if they where good enough.

It's funny you mention that about not being racist to black people, insinuating that they are racist towards other races, because I've often thought the same thing.

You never heard a word from Bobby Heenan about black people in any kind of negative connotation, but boy, native american, scottish, italian, spanish, mexican, asian, lol he certainly didn't hold back the mildly racist jokes there.

And even so it was all good humor racist comments from Heenan anyways, I never felt like he meant anything by what he said, he was just trying to get a laugh.

Seriously though? The Rock has got to be the most awesome wrestler ever, and was most certainly the face of the company. But I guess since he was a halfy he was only on top because he was Samoan.

I always felt Booker T was screwed. I'm definitely a believer that WCW stars were held back in the WWE, and I was royally pissed off when Booker T lost at Wrestlemania to HHH. Booker deserved it, he was the Randy Savage of Hungry Man TV dinners! S**t I only KNOW of Hungry Man TV Dinners because of Booker T. He was good in the ring, good on the mic, was entertaining, and was getting outside endorsements as well. He earned the spot only to get held back by HHH.

It may not be a popular opinion just yet, but I've long expected to see something big from David Otunga too. I'll bet that 7 years from now I'll be proven right about him too.

Oh and BTW Please dear god push R-Truth to the top before he's too old. He's 39 right now and he's still got it, give him what he completely deserves before he can't go any longer.

 

[bxbigshow]

While I have no problem with The Rock as the "face" that you refer to. I understand where the "not black/brown" statement, I don't AGREE with it...but I understand.

What people fail to admit that there is a glass ceiling for African American (black) wrestlers. The mentality is that they need to be The Rock in order to get the oppurtunity to try and get the ball and run with it. While others like a Jack Swagger, Sheamus, Del Rio get the oppurtunity.

R-Truth could've been it if WWE let him try, but they went the heel route. But he has charisma and athleticism, plus he can cut a promo. So as a face he could've succeded, as a heel now he's behind the 8-ball.

The idea that a black man needs to be on par with "The Greatest Entertainer of All Time" in order to get the CHANCE is in fact a roadblock placed to keep a black man from trying.

No one ever says that a non-black wrestler needs to be on par with Hogan/Austin/hell even The Rock to get the CHANCE, they just get the chance.

 

[GI Cake]

It doesn't matter what color you are, as long as you bring in the green week in, week out, Vince and Company wouldn't care less if you were a fucking Martian. The Rock is considered an African-American star. It doesn't matter what color you are, if you can entertain and bring in the money guys like Stone Cold, Booker T, Kurt Angle, Eddie G., and John Cena then the WWE will consider you a top guy. Know why their is not a ton of black professional wrestlers in the world? Simply put none of them care about trying to be the top star in the WWE. And the blacks in the WWE don't have the star power that the greats had.

 

[xxxdaniel_ariesxxx]

The rock does not have typical black physical features or speak in a way typically associated with black people.

What exactly are "black physical features"? His skin is dark enough to elicit a negative reaction from a racist redneck, and his dad is black... besides he was black enough for Faarooq when he made the Nation of Domination "Bigger, Badder, Better and Blacker", so that's good enough for me...

The Rock makes this whole argument a moot point. besides, if Black men like JYD/Big Daddy Ritter, Toney Atlas and Bobo Brazil could be top stars in southern territories back in the 70's and 80's then why couldn't a really dark skinned black man be just as big today on a national level?

 

[IMCJ]

Easy. The Rock. Who cares if he's only half African American.

 

[Syborgg]

A few questions: 1) - Why do we have a thread like this every week or so? 2) - Why are we forced to justify the FACT that The Rock IS BLACK? 3) - Why is this such a big issue?

I know there's been reports of Michael Hayes being racist, but there's no proof that VKM is, and Vince is the guy with the final say. Mark Henry is the WHC and has been dominating WWE's #2 guy(Orton) in the last few PPVs. Sure he's not the top guy in the company, but he doesn't quite have that IT factor for selling merch. and tickets. It's not because he's black, it's because he lacks a little when they put a microphone in his hand.

The closest we got besides The Rock is Booker T. He was the top guy in WcW near the end of it's run. He had some of that IT factor, only a couple problems with him, first - he came into WWE when Rock and Austin were still running the show, and second - by the time the spot was open he was nearing the end of his WWE run. I think if he was younger and still an active wrestler, he would be one of, if not THE, top guys in the company on this current roster.

 

[JWGunslinger]

The Rock was, and he still is one of the biggest and most recognizable names in the history of the WWE. Even though he's the only black guy to be number one you have to look at a few things, for instance the number of black guys in the WWE compared to white guys, there are definitely less which makes the odds of a bunch of them being #1 at one point a little more unlikely. But forget about that and focus on the fact that those other black wrestlers may not have been top dog but some came close, hell Booker was one of the number one guys both in WWE and WCW and he's a 6 time World Champion, Triple Crown Champion and one of only 3 men to hold the big gold belt in both WCW and WWE. Booker is one of the greatest of all time and even though he was probably never considered #1 he was definitely up there and is one of my favorite superstars of all time, to me he was number 1.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

The Rock is black, and this topic has been done to death.

Closed.