Championship Match: (1) Steve Austin vs. (2) The Rock

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

Probably because Rock had so much help to try to beat Austin at Wrestlemana XV.

That's kind of how their saga has gone.

It took multiple matches for the Rock to Finally beat Austin clean.

Here's a statistic for anyone wondering how this match would turn out...

The Rock and Stone Cold squared off against each other 103 times (singles, tags, everything).

Stone Cold was on the winning side 81 of those 103 times, and 5 more of those matches didn't have a decision. The Rock only came out the winner against Austin 16.5% of the time.

When these two guys faced off, it was the Rock that would be on the losing end virtually every single time.

Think about that

Re-read the rules of this tournament.

We can use whatever criteria we want, not who would win in a kayfabe match.

neither guy should be at this point but Austin is clearly the winner here not even close.

Not even close? Really? From what I recall, the Rock-Austin debate is one of the biggest debates in all of wrestling.

Just because you hate Rock and voted against Rock in pretty much every round doesn't change the fact that Rock-Austin were head to head in the attitude era.

 

[DarksideEric]

We can use whatever criteria we want, not who would win in a kayfabe match.

I know what the rules of the tournament are.

You stated "Austin never beat Rock cleanly."

That's because their their entire storyline aside from their very last match, Rock couldn't beat Austin no matter how much he had help.

Their entire set of matches except for the last one is built around that.

And... Rock finally beating Austin cleanly is kinda, y'know... kayfabe.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

I know what the rules of the tournament are.

You stated "Austin never beat Rock cleanly."

That's because their their entire storyline aside from their very last match, Rock couldn't beat Austin no matter how much he had help.

Their entire set of matches except for the last one is built around that.

And... Rock finally beating Austin cleanly is kinda, y'know... kayfabe.

I said that Austin never defeated Face Rock cleanly. Ever.

Also, kayfabe matches aren't my criteria.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I said that Austin never defeated Face Rock cleanly. Ever.

Also, kayfabe matches aren't my criteria.

First off, if kayfabe isn't your criteria why do you keep returning to the kayfabe "Face Rock" argument?


Outside of actual kayfabe, what about the tournament kayfabe then? What's the point of KB actually letting us know the damage done in the one night aspect of these finals?

Simple wrestling logic would say that, if you're using "Face Rock" (as you appear to be) and he is taking on a face Austin but is severely fatigued due to two more grueling matches then he is going to lose because he has the out of the beating at Lesnar's hands.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

First off, if kayfabe isn't your criteria why do you keep returning to the kayfabe "Face Rock" argument?


Outside of actual kayfabe, what about the tournament kayfabe then? What's the point of KB actually letting us know the damage done in the one night aspect of these finals?

Simple wrestling logic would say that, if you're using "Face Rock" (as you appear to be) and he is taking on a face Austin but is severely fatigued due to two more grueling matches then he is going to lose because he has the out of the beating at Lesnar's hands.

KB actually said that we can use the criteria we want.

I used mine and in my opinion Rock is better. End of.

 

[DarksideEric]

I said that Austin never defeated Face Rock cleanly. Ever.

Also, kayfabe matches aren't my criteria.

Yes, I know what you said.

I replied with that was part of what their entire saga was built on.

Austin has only been heel in two singles matches with the Rock.

Austin didn't defeat Rock cleanly at Mania XV because of all the interference on the Rock's behalf. Same thing for the other matches in which face Austin defeated the Rock.

Austin, face or heel, has never beaten Rock cleanly due to interference or cheating for either side. Again... that was kind of what their whole saga was built on.

Rock defeated Austin in their final match, their first clean finish, because Austin was retiring and it was their send off match.

 

[DarksideEric]

KB actually said that we can use the criteria we want.

I used mine and in my opinion Rock is better. End of.

Just because you use the criteria of donkey's are frogs because you like frogs better doesn't mean donkeys are actually frogs.

Your own criteria contradicts itself the moment you try to explain it past the simple statement of:

I like Rock better, so Rock wins in my eyes.

That would be "end of."

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I'm write in voting Andre the Giant because GOAT said 92 times that KB said we could use any criteria we want and I'm tired of seeing the big four of Cena, Hogan, Rock, and Austin clutter up the finals. During this match Andre would in the back fucking both guys wives and drinking all their booze, thus therefore he is unto for to unto be there the real winner.

And Andre took no damage in the semis.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

Just because you use the criteria of donkey's are frogs because you like frogs better doesn't mean donkeys are actually frogs.

Your own criteria contradicts itself the moment you try to explain it past the simple statement of:

I like Rock better, so Rock wins in my eyes.

That would be "end of."

No it's because Rock isn't an egomaniac that buried everyone he faced is why I voted for Rock.

It's because Rock became the biggest star wrestling has ever produced without using politics.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

I'm write in voting Andre the Giant because GOAT said 92 times that KB said we could use any criteria we want and I'm tired of seeing the big four of Cena, Hogan, Rock, and Austin clutter up the finals. During this match Andre would in the back fucking both guys wives and drinking all their booze, thus therefore he is unto for to unto be there the real winner.

And Andre took no damage in the semis.

I motion to resurrect Andre as well.

Let's make this bitch a Triple Threat. Fuck the system.

 

[DarksideEric]

No it's because Rock isn't an egomaniac that buried everyone he faced is why I voted for Rock.

It's because Rock became the biggest star wrestling has ever produced without using politics.

I think it's time for this to return...

Spoiler

Austin buries people now?

Let's see this beautifully long list of people Austin has buried.

 

[DarksideEric]

I motion to resurrect Andre as well.

Let's make this bitch a Triple Threat. Fuck the system.

Fuck that... here's my criteria:

I was born in 1983. Only wrestlers who were active in the WWE in 1983 are allowed to be in the tournament because I was born so that year is very important.

And it's a Battle Royal Ladder Match. You get eliminated by being hit with a ladder that's been thrown over the top rope.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

If WZT Rock can beat WZT Brock when real Brock beat real Rock in real life, let's not get bogged down in stuff like history and facts and all that pish.

They could both be jerks, they both had shows named after them (although only one of those became the 'B' show, Bottom Line would be an 'S' show), they both beat big names, won titles, had catchphrases, rocked a bald look and on and on it goes.

Rock never beat his wife though so I'll go with him.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

Fuck that... here's my criteria:

I was born in 1983. Only wrestlers who were active in the WWE in 1983 are allowed to be in the tournament because I was born so that year is very important.

And it's a Battle Royal Ladder Match. You get eliminated by being hit with a ladder that's been thrown over the top rope.

No reason to get all passive aggressive about this sweetheart.

It's just a simple tournament lol.

Rock > Austin, fact!

There's a reason one is the highest grossing actor in Hollywood and the other is in straight to dvd movies you can find in gas station next to Jillian CDs lmao.

Derp me hate Wocky me vote against Wocky me insult Wocky fans because me can't handle other peoples opinion.

ROFLMFAO!!

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

KB actually said that we can use the criteria we want.

I used mine and in my opinion Rock is better. End of.

And why should other voters vote for the Rock simply because, in your eyes, he's better? That's a one and done post, there is no discussion. "IMO Rock is better"... okay, in actual kayfabe, in the tournament kayfabe, and in many people's opinion SCSA is better. "End off"

 

[Dragon Chief]

I love how the same people who voted against Brock Lesnar are voting for Steve Austin because he beat The Rock during his prime.

Anyways, I'm going with Rocky, always liked him more but I can understand the votes for Austin.

 

[DarksideEric]

No reason to get all passive aggressive about this sweetheart.

It's just a simple tournament lol.

Rock > Austin, fact!

There's a reason one is the highest grossing actor in Hollywood and the other is in straight to dvd movies you can find in gas station next to Jillian CDs lmao.

Derp me hate Wocky me vote against Wocky me insult Wocky fans because me can't handle other peoples opinion.

ROFLMFAO!!

The only real proper reaction to reading your posts:

The reason Rock is a high grossing actor?

Because he's a good (well, "okay" compared to others) actor.

Too bad in the ring you can't do multiple takes if you fuck up your lines or are off your mark.

You may also want to look up the word "fact."

When I read this part:

Derp me hate Wocky me vote against Wocky me insult Wocky fans because me can't handle other peoples opinion.

 

[Danger Burger]

I voted Rocky.

You don't care why I voted Rock. I barely care why I voted Rock. I like him better. Sometimes I'm convinced he is the pinacle of what a professional wrestler should be. He looks tough, he talks great, he tells a good story in the ring. Better yet though, and I will elaborate further, he makes you believe.

Were a tough bunch to impress, notoriously so. But let me describe something to you. A man stands in the middle of the ring, his opponent is flat on the floor. He takes a second to breath, shifts his head and cocks an eyebrow. Slowly, slowly, he removes his elbow pad, throws it to one of the millions of fans whose hair is standing on edge. A little kick to the shoulder, ad he starts to run. He runs one way... He runs the other way... and finally (FINALLY) he hits... an elbow drop.

An elbow drop ladies and gentlemen. The third damn move I bet every wrestler learns. An elbow drop. Everybody does elbow drops. Dolph Ziggler does ten in a row. A god damned elbow drop. Yet everyone goes insane. Everytime they see it they go nuts. And you have too. For even the shortest of moments, you believe that a god damned elbow drop is going to stop the likes of the Big Show, of Austin, of Triple H.

That is why The Rock gets my vote. He achieved something that only Hogan before him did. He took the stupidest, most basic move he could find, turned it up to a thousand and blew everyone away.

I don't mid Austin winning. There is no wrong answer here. But a god damned elbow drop.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

I love how the same people who voted against Brock Lesnar are voting for Steve Austin because he beat The Rock during his prime.

Anyways, I'm going with Rocky, always liked him more but I can understand the votes for Austin.

To be fair Austin and Rock faced off alot more than Rock vs Lesnar. That said Rocky is also more worn out here and Austin's been smoking people even though he's highly overrated much like Rock. It's really not that big a debate. Austin is at least on that top tier to me Rock isn't

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I got a question for TheOneAndOnlyGoat here.

Why do you think Austin buried everyone he worked with?

Austin has mentioned refusing angles because it wasn't good for business, that's not burying talent, that's having good business sense (something guys like Flair could have really benefited from). Take when Austin left in '02, the reason given to the public by Austin and other backstage personnel that had close tie ins with the situation is that Austin was pissed that the WWE was blowing a HUGE payday because they wanted Austin to lose clean to Lesnar, giving the fans 2 days notice. I don't agree with Austin leaving in the manner he did but he makes a very good point. Austin has said himself he would have happily put over Lesnar but lets get a good payday out of it. The WWE was going to waste a Wrestlemania Main Event (and the payday that would have come with that) if Austin lost to Lesnar on Raw, taking money out of Lesnar's pocket, Austin's pocket and their OWN pocket (which they ultimately did). If I was in Austin's shoes I would have refused too.

When Austin was on screen though he often made the people he worked with look good, you think The Rock got to where he was without Austin's help? Hell no. Sure Austin may have won but he did a good job with making Rock look more than worthy, he did the same for Kane, Undertaker, and Triple H. Just because you win doesn't mean you're burying talent and it's often the opposite of that. Talent often got elevated simply by working with Austin, even if they were on the losing end and Austin played a big part in guys like Foley, Rock and Triple H moving up the card.

The Rock however often made talent look like they were 2 feet tall, like they were inferior, like they didn't matter. Yeah he worked with Billy Gunn but after their feud Billy Gunn fell through the floor with his push, same with Booker T as well. Sure he worked with them but their stocks often plummeted after The Rock was done with them. Billy Gunn went from KOTR winner to being Triple H's lackey in a matter of months, Booker T went from WCW champion to a mid card feud with Edge and a comedy tag team with Goldust.

If The Rock is so good at making talent and Austin is so good at burying talent then why did most people who worked with Austin get elevated and most people who worked with Rock fall through the floor?

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

Unfortunately I think The Goat is doing more damage for my cause in this match than good, but he has raised the odd point point here and there.

I understand Austin winning here, it's the result I expected. I do/did hope a few more people would read my first post though. I know many will tl;dr, but I think I've addressed many of the points made AFTER my post, and it would be interesting to see people tackle my pre-emptive rebuttals.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

I got a question for TheOneAndOnlyGoat here.

Why do you think Austin buried everyone he worked with?

Austin has mentioned refusing angles because it wasn't good for business, that's not burying talent, that's having good business sense (something guys like Flair could have really benefited from). Take when Austin left in '02, the reason given to the public by Austin and other backstage personnel that had close tie ins with the situation is that Austin was pissed that the WWE was blowing a HUGE payday because they wanted Austin to lose clean to Lesnar, giving the fans 2 days notice. I don't agree with Austin leaving in the manner he did but he makes a very good point. Austin has said himself he would have happily put over Lesnar but lets get a good payday out of it. The WWE was going to waste a Wrestlemania Main Event (and the payday that would have come with that) if Austin lost to Lesnar on Raw, taking money out of Lesnar's pocket, Austin's pocket and their OWN pocket (which they ultimately did). If I was in Austin's shoes I would have refused too.

When Austin was on screen though he often made the people he worked with look good, you think The Rock got to where he was without Austin's help? Hell no. Sure Austin may have won but he did a good job with making Rock look more than worthy, he did the same for Kane, Undertaker, and Triple H. Just because you win doesn't mean you're burying talent and it's often the opposite of that. Talent often got elevated simply by working with Austin, even if they were on the losing end and Austin played a big part in guys like Foley, Rock and Triple H moving up the card.

The Rock however often made talent look like they were 2 feet tall, like they were inferior, like they didn't matter. Yeah he worked with Billy Gunn but after their feud Billy Gunn fell through the floor with his push, same with Booker T as well. Sure he worked with them but their stocks often plummeted after The Rock was done with them. Billy Gunn went from KOTR winner to being Triple H's lackey in a matter of months, Booker T went from WCW champion to a mid card feud with Edge and a comedy tag team with Goldust.

If The Rock is so good at making talent and Austin is so good at burying talent then why did most people who worked with Austin get elevated and most people who worked with Rock fall through the floor?

You made some ridiculous points.

First, you mention The Rock as if he was the reason Billy Gunn and Booker T weren't booked properly after their feud with Rock.

At least Rock gave Billy a chance, he was in the absolute prime of his career, he got down, he went to the mid card to feud with Gunn, he gave him a chance but Billy didn't capitalize on it.

There was absolutely no reason for Rock to be in the mid card at that time let alone LOSING in the mid card in the prime of his career.

As for Booker, Rock put him over 2 years later in that battle royal.


Austin wasn't going to lose to Lesnar clean, he was going to lose to Lesnar with interference from Guerrero which was going to start a feud between the two.


And you say feuding with Austin elevated Rock?


If anything, Foley elevated and made The Rock, Austin buried Rock every time they faced each other.

Just look at their win / loss record.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

You made some ridiculous points.

First, you mention The Rock as if he was the reason Billy Gunn and Booker T weren't booked properly after their feud with Rock.

At least Rock gave Billy a chance, he was in the absolute prime of his career, he got down, he went to the mid card to feud with Gunn, he gave him a chance but Billy didn't capitalize on it.

There was absolutely no reason for Rock to be in the mid card at that time let alone LOSING in the mid card in the prime of his career.

As for Booker, Rock put him over 2 years later in that battle royal.


Austin wasn't going to lose to Lesnar clean, he was going to lose to Lesnar with interference from Guerrero which was going to start a feud between the two.


And you say feuding with Austin elevated Rock?


If anything, Foley elevated and made The Rock, Austin buried Rock every time they faced each other.

Just look at their win / loss record.

The win/loss record has NOTHING to do with burying a wrestler, you fucking idiot.

Let's see how Austin elevated the Rock.

It took Austin multiple title matches to get the belt off The Rock.

Numerous RAW's ended with The Rock standing tall.

The Rock was the FIRST guy to kick out of the stunner.

The Rock often came close to beating Austin and went down A LOT harder than the rest of Austins opponents.

I will say it again. Wins and Losses have nothing to do with burying an opponent. No ones stock was ever damaged when working with Austin (maybe Rikishi) therefore they DIDN'T GET BURIED. You don't know what buried means.

Lastly, even if Lesnar wouldn't have won cleanly WWE was still throwing away an 8 figure match up as a result of moronic booking.

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGOAT]

Unfortunately I think The Goat is doing more damage for my cause in this match than good, but he has raised the odd point point here and there.

Actually no I'm not causing any damage. Those who like Austin more will vote for him. Same thing with Rock.

If you ask me, the voters are 50% Rock haters, 25% Fans of both but prefer Austin, 15% Fans of both but prefer Rock, 10% Rock marks.

By the way, love how some of these biased to the max towards Rock, who trash him on some threads and voted against him in every last round are trying to act unbiased.

 

[DarksideEric]

And you say feuding with Austin elevated Rock?


If anything, Foley elevated and made The Rock, Austin buried Rock every time they faced each other.

Just look at their win / loss record.

Too bad it was Mankind that put Rocky Maivia (not the Rock) out of action with a knee injury. The Rock feuded with Austin over the Intercontinental Title before The Rock ever faced Mankind for the WWE Championship.

"Without getting overly sentimental, I'll go on record as saying every single time that I've been in the ring with the Rock he has brought out the absolute best in Stone Cold Steve Austin."

- Wrestlemania XVII interview with Rock and Austin conducted by JR.

Total burial that is. Total.