Championship Match: (1) John Cena vs. (3) Andre the Giant

Discussion in 'Championship Region' started by klunderbunker, May 10, 2016.

?

Who Wins The Tournament?

  1. John Cena

  2. Andre the Giant

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. King Patrick Star

    King Patrick Star K. O. T. R. 2007 -€“ Team Undisputed

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    Whoa!! Slow down and watch yourself there, junior. I forgot more things about Professional Sports Wrestling Entertainment that you know. Were you even allowed to watch the Attitude Era while it was going on?? Andre the Giant is probably not going to win this (unless, of course we have more men than women and children here), and you’re little insults and arguments are as irrelevant as the guy in your signature picture.

    I like Andre The Giant, but John Cena is the face of this entire industry. I liked him when he debut and when he had the United States Championship Title Spinner Belt. I turned on him when he had the WWE Championship Title Spinner Belt. I reinstated my CeNation membership when my son looked at him the way I used to look at Hulk Hogan. I’m just a bigger fan of his than Andre.

    I’m not arguing your points or anyone else’s points. I’m just saying that I voted for John Cena to win it all, only because Chris Jericho, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Kurt Angle, Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan (in that order) are all out of the tournament. If Andre The Giant is Doomsday / Bane, and John Cena is Superman / Batman, well, we know how those stories end. You can kill him, you can break his back, but in the end…

    Cena wins!!

    The Champ is here!!
     
    #26
  2. NSL

    NSL Life's A Bitch, And Then You Mosh

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    Oh, man...This is one hell of a match-up...

    You would think Andre comes into this fresher, winning roughly 71% of the vote against Cena's 65%, and in shorter matches. But, in a one night tournament, his size would work against him, and I'd say they're coming into this pretty even.

    And Cena has a long history of winning over bigger men than him. But, Andre has a longer history of beating...well, everyone. Andre gets my vote, but it's so close...
     
    #27
  3. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    This isnt who wins the war. Its a one off battle. Doomsday killed Superman. Batman was put on the shelf when Bane snapped him in two. They may have gotten the last laugh, but had their asses handed to them at the start.

    Lets look at one mountain Cena had to overcome & its an opponent people bring up frequently as a selling point for Cena. That man is Brock Lesnar. When Cena beat him at Extreme Rules shortly after Brock returned, the praises of Cena were sung across the land. Good for you John. Too bad it took you a few tries before you got a win over him though. You got your win finally, then took the beating of your life against him at Summer Slam. Nobody has ever kicked the shit out of Cena like that before. The kayfabe Superman was destroyed by a freak of nature.

    Cena now stands across the ring from another freak of nature. Andre in his prime was quick as a cat & strong as a grizzly. Very difficult to get off his feet & when he was, the guy shot up and came at you head on. Few survived his onslaught. Who cares about Khali when Cena beat him, the guy is molasses poured in a tall glass & has no wrestling ability. Forget about Big Show too. He may be roughly the same size of Andre in his latter years, but he is not half as talented or tough. Everyone has beaten Big Slow in the past decade because he is far from his younger, tougher & more agile self.

    Being strong enough to lift the bigger guys is a great feat. Problem is, what to do when they pop right back up and try to tear your head off. Cena had a lot of trouble with Lesnar before getting a win, then he got tossed around like a baby in a tornado. In a one off first meeting, this would go for John the same way it did for most of Andre's opponents. They would bite off more than they could chew & take a loss. People have given John the admiration of calling him this generations Hulk Hogan. Well, what happened when Hulk faced Andre for the first time? Andre won. It took Hogan a few times before he caught a win & those matches were against Andre on the downswing. So in his prime? Andre has no issues doing the same.


    One off match. No bullshit interference or shenanigans necessary. Straight up fight. Cena could not get it done against a beast. Hogan couldn't get it done against a giant. A prime Andre takes all the mighty shoulder blocks John has to offer & then gets hit with an AA. Then John shits his jorts when Andre pops right back up, so he hits him with a second. Now Andre is pissed and wraps his large hands around his throat. He tosses him around & gets smashed on till Andre is done playing and wants to go finish his case of wine.


    Cena is legit & made a good run. It just isnt his year. Andre is better and John should not go over here.
     
    #28
  4. Good Golly It's Ollie

    Good Golly It's Ollie Magical Girl

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    I prefer the narrative of David overcoming Goliath, and I simply found Cena more entertaining overall. That's not a knock on Andre, that's just how it is for me. Purely my preference. Protagonist defeats Antagonist. Bilbo defeats Smaug. David defeats Goliath. Cena defeats Andre.

    Vote for who you damn want, IDC. At the moment, it's deservedly close.
     
    #29
  5. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    :twak:

    Andre the Giant adopted Bobby Heenan as a manager from 1987 to 1990, and for many years before 1987 he feuded with The Heenan Family. You're basing your entire picture of Andre the Giant on three years of his twenty-two year long career. For crying out loud.

    Let's use the same logic to regard John Cena only from 2013 until the present day. During that time; John Cena gave up clean wins to Alberto Del Rio and Kevin Owens. Alberto Del Rio would take that epic win, and promptly lose multiple times to Kalisto. Kevin Owens would take that epic win, and use it to look a little better in the Intercontinental title picture. Also during this time John lost clean to Daniel Bryan, lost a WWE World Heavyweight Championship ladder match clean to Randy Orton and lost clean to Brock Lesnar in probably the most one-sided world championship loss any of us have ever seen. That John Cena would never be able to defeat your example of Andre the Giant.

    Can someone please present an argument on Cena's behalf that involves some kind of comparison? Andre lost a few times through his entire career to the best of the best, Cena lost his groove two years ago and has given wins to people who are still trying to own the mid-card.
     
    #30
  6. Pay Per Ghost

    Pay Per Ghost squashed Disco Inferno to become

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    See people saying Andre would lose to Cena coz he is basically Hogan 2.0 is ridiculous.

    ANDRE WAS HOGAN BEFORE HOGAN! He was the man, the marquee, the face of the company. I'd put his prime from 77-84 and that's a good 7 years.

    Still 4 short of Cena.

    Cena and his run is something the world of wrestling or the world in general hasn't seen. Here's a guy who 1 year into his run as the face started getting booed and yet, he was and is still the man.

    Love Andre, but I think I'm going Cena. Years after he retires will people actually realize what he did for the business, and how he maybe the greatest of all time.
     
    #31
  7. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    My head's telling me Cena. My heart doesn't care. My gut is telling me that I shouldn't side with people who think the final of a wrestling tournament should be an overbooked piece of Attitude era trash.

    I want to start by saying can we remove the ridiculous idea of interference. Heenan managed Andre at WM3 and there were no run ins.

    Cena can obviously lift Andre - at any point in his career - one only needs to look at WM 25 to see that, when he lifted both Big Show and Edge. Cena has also managed to put the STF on Big Show and he's as big a unit as Andre ever was. Obviously Andre's offence would all work on Cena too.

    As for the bigger star, in pure wrestling terms its unquestionably Cena. Bigger crowds, bigger live audiences, bigger PPV buy rates, longevity merchandise, everything except Saturday Night's Main Event ratings basically. However, Andre is world renown because he is so physically massive. Again, it's a hard sell.

    People will make comparisons with Andre and other monsters of the modern day, Kane, Khali etc and especially Big Show, but that is to reduce things down to size only, which is unfair and misleading. A much better comparison for Andre are people like Brock Lesnar and The Undertaker - absolutely unstoppable beasts, that are for the most part above the world title. Cena lost to Lesnar a lot more times than he won, and I don't think his experience with The Undertaker is really relevant in talking about him at his peak.

    I think I've convinced myself to vote for Andre, so please take this as a written vote.
     
    #32
  8. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    These two guys are included in the greatest of all. These both are great legends and deserve the chance to compete in this tournament's final.

    Its a really close decision for me. Cena is great. Andre is just greater.

    No matter you like or dislike Cena, You can't negate his accomplishments and impact on wrestling. But same is with Andre too, isn't it?

    Ask a layman about wrestling and he would almost surely know John Cena. A decade on top of WWE is a great accolade. He has good mic-skills too. So good that he can turn a crowd in favour of him with his skills.

    Just think of prime Andre Vs. prime Cena. And prime Andre would win it surely. The competition is fair if both contestants give their best. And best of Andre defeats the best of Cena.

    So Andre The Giant! :evil3:
     
    #33
  9. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    Just thought of something. We give Cena his due when it comes to merch, regardless of what age group it is more geared to. He has been a cash cow fro WWE. Something to consider though, as enviousdominous said, Andre had his image slapped on everything from graffiti to stickers to shirts & hats thanks to OBEY. Those items plus all the Princess Bride merch surely would have to give a nice boost to Andre in terms of not only revenue but recognition. I think that counts regardless of if its wrestling based & shows how popular Andre was outside of just wrestling fans across the world.
     
    #34
  10. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    This could, quite possibly, be the most incorrect and ridiculous thing you've ever said on the forums. And that's saying a lot ;)

    Seriously though, that is an extremely short-sighted statement. You obviously have little to no understanding of the magnitude of Wrestlemania 3. And I'm not talking about numbers on paper (i.e. PPV buys, tickets sold).

    During this time period, the WWE wanted to put Wrestlemania on a global scale. This was their first ever PPV event. It was the first WM event in a stadium that housed more than 30,000 fans. Sure, Hogan was a draw but he was running out of opponents. There was no Ultimate Warrior back then. Savage was a top worker and midcard performer. Piper moved on. Bret Hart was still a top tag team member. There was NO ONE who could have rivaled Hogan to be a BELIEVABLE threat like Andre. And you cannot draw an event that seats over 90,000 people without a formidable opponent.

    Although many knew that (technically) Andre wasn't undefeated and he (technically) wrestled Hogan before, it didn't matter. Vince had a master plan of promotion for the event with a storyline that drew everyone in. Unless you were alive back then and watched on a weekly basis without using hindsight, you can't imagine how huge this event was. Wrestling was uber-popular back then. When Andre walked onto Piper's Pit with Bobby Heenan, it was almost like the audience saw a real-life deal made with the devil himself. It was so shocking to see Andre make that heel turn and threaten Hogan. EVERYONE knew who Andre and Hogan were and to see them clash was literally mind-blowing. To this day, it's the greatest wrestling event I ever had the privilege of watching live, as it happened.
     
    #35
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  11. enviousdominous

    enviousdominous Behold my diction

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    I feel that I should add a little more to this, just because for some the emphasis on this match seems to be that Andre would be the villain.

    Street artists try to capture a concept known as "phenomenology", which is when you're presented with imagery that takes your perspective from the mundane complacency of what you expected to see and suddenly makes your mind race in a desperate attempt to understand what you're seeing. Those not involved with the more esoteric aspects might feel fear or anxiety, that's when some inspired research is necessary but would still get the point across.

    "Andre the Giant has a posse" was presented to inquiring minds in various locations in the northeast. The meaning being that those of us who are expected to accept the bread crumbs that society offers us for our hard labor -- and walk away feeling exceedingly fortunate for getting anything at all -- we have an idea of unity on our minds that will make us strong and help us overcome. Now Andre's face covers the sides of entire multi-story buildings in various locations all over the world, as an advertisement for strength through solidarity.

    Andre the Giant was a man of the people for the majority of his career, to have him in your corner -- in any manner -- can make powerful oligarchs take a step back and rethink their strategy.

    They have money, power and control. We have the essence of Andre the Giant pushing back and challenging their power over us.
     
    #36
  12. Hulkamaniac

    Hulkamaniac Vote Hogan, Savage, Rocky and Thesz

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    Man, what a battle. In the end it comes down to this for me: If this was how the tournament was booked, and we ended up here with this final, who would be booked to win?

    The answer is John Cena. They are in similar stratospheres in terms of career, with difference existing both for and against both of them.

    In the end, the man holding the book makes the decision. And here, if a man holding the book is smart and wants to make money, Cena triumphs over the unstoppable force AND immovable object that is Andre the Giant, despite all odds.

    Vote Cena.
     
    #37
  13. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.

    Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Kamehamehaaaaa!!

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    I'd like to ask a question:

    How come Andre never won a world title in his top run, which was during the 70s and early 80s?
     
    #38
  14. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    It has been told promoters were somewhat hesitant to give him the strap. One being that Andre would surely do business & take a loss, as long as he felt the person was worthy. A few times he flat out refused to go down if his opponent was a ******** with no respect for the business. Makes it hard to convince him to drop a belt if he feels its bad for business & nobody can make Andre do shit. The second story I heard was due to if they gave him the belt in any of the various territories, promoters were worried they may not have a way to get it off him. Few were considered worthy that could be billed as a man who could take him down that fans would buy in to. So if the guy they wanted was a prick, Andre would not be taking the loss & if they pulled some shenanigans on Andre the chances of someone getting smashed would be high. Andre never wrestling for them again if they played dirty pool would also be a factor as promoters needed his name to sell tickets & could not afford to lose the cash his appearances made for them.

    In a sense, Andre was a no bullshit kind of guy & would not take a loss for just anyone. If he was crossed, then there goes the cash cow that many regional promoters needed. So they would rather keep him happy, instead of risking getting him pissed & not coming back. I am sure there is more to it & he may not have held titles as a big deal over just going out there to perform an honest days work doing something he loved. The above are reasons I have heard here & there over the years. Could be just talk, but seems legit enough.
     
    #39
  15. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    Whilst this is quite likely true, I think the more simple answer is Andre didn't need to be the champion to be a draw. In the same way that Lesnar and the undertaker aren't going after the title anymore and even Cena a little bit, it's because the fans are invested in them anyway so give someone else the assistance of the belt.
     
    #40
  16. MrMojoRisin

    MrMojoRisin Championship Contender

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    Andre was a touring attraction. He could have held all the titles he wanted, but the truth is... he probably wouldn't have made as much money as one.

    I've looked up some match records though to answer your question. Bear in mind that as a touring attraction, a lot of the time promoters would want to use him to give a bit of a rub to their top attractions as well... so he'd work a decent number of tags here, which is where the majority of the losses come from (partner always taking the pinfall). Other losses would be by DQ.

    Ric Flair (27-2-3)
    Nick Bockwinkel (25-4-8)
    Hulk Hogan (46-40-27)
    Stan Hansen (32-3-2)
    Superstar Billy Graham (22-2-2)
    Roddy Piper (26-2)
    Stan Stasiak (former WWWF Champ) - (29-0-0)
    Bruiser Brody (13-3-3)
    Harley Race (10-0-10)
    Killer Kowalski (20-1-0)
    Mad Dog Vachon (20-1-0)
    Butcher Vachon (20-0-0)
    Terry Funk (12-1-3)
    Dory Funk (14-2-1)
    Dusty Rhodes (11-1-0)
    Jerry Brisco (10-0-1)
    Pedro Morales (9-0-0)
    Bob Backlund (6-0-1)

    You get the idea.

    There are two men in history who have a significant winning record over Andre. The Ultimate Warrior when Andre was basically on his last legs (and insisted on doing short jobs when asked to put over Warrior), and Antonio Inoki, who had the large portion of his wins over Andre coming from the other side of tags or six man matches.

    So was Andre a sideshow who only beat up on bums? No. He fought the best of his era regularly, and beat them all consistently.

    Hope this wasn't too late and you've already casted your vote.
     
    #41
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  17. George Steele's Barber

    George Steele's Barber Advertise Here $9.95/month

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    Two conversations with Vincent Kennedy McMahon:

    1986

    "Andre, we've had a great run. Closed circuit television is dying and our newest endeavour is going to be Pay Per View. I need this to work for the future of the company. I've decided that this is so important that the only person whose legacy and reputation matters enough to do this with Hulk is you."

    2013

    "John, we've had a great run. Pay Per View television is dying and our newest endeavour is the WWE Network. I've decided that the only person who matters enough to do this is..."

    "Me Vince?"

    "No John, I'm choosing that 5'7" vegan that doesn't own a TV."

    "So I will pass the torch to him in the main event?"

    "No John. I'm relying on Orton and Batista."

    "Batista hasn't fought for years. There probably are fans who have never seen him before. Well at least you are giving me Taker?"

    "No John, that role is going to Brock. And he's going to beat Taker."

    "So how about HHH? I get your prized son in law, right?"

    "No, Daniel gets to beat him too."

    "OK, good luck with the WWE Network."

    Two examples of crucial events in WWE history and how Vince chose to use these guys.

    Andre > Cena

    this is where no one has a counter argument
     
    #42
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  18. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    So far we have...

    Cena sold a lot of shirts in his run at the top & has beaten the best of his time by being super strong.

    Well, Andre seems to have done all that, but for longer. He dominated the best of his time, unlike his opponent who seemingly has the worst W/L of all the true legends he is listed among. Andre made a street artist millions of dollars using his image & helped put WM on the map. I have seen no arguments that show Cena is better & a convoluted overbooked run in fest surely does not help score John any points. Nor has anyone shown he can put Andre down for the count in this one off first meeting.


    Vote Andre. He is better.
     
    #43
  19. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.

    Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Kamehamehaaaaa!!

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    Or maybe Vince knew that Andre was in his late career (se he could take the loss without harm to his drawing ability) and wanted to use him in his full potential, in a main-event dream match against Hogan. Whereas John Cena wasn't in his late career and had many years ahead of him, thus taking a loss against Daniel Bryan twice would hurt his drawing power.

    And maybe Vince wanted the Network Era to start with Lesnar, Bryan AND Cena and not just with one guy, in Hulk Hogan.
     
    #44
  20. JJYanks121

    JJYanks121 The Mouth of the South Shore

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    It's a pretty sad state of affairs that this is even close, though if it's going to be, I'd really prefer people give more honest answers. I mean, it's a lot of the same people that vote against Cena every round, so just say you are one of those guys that doesn't like him rather than trying to build some menial argument to put a side show over him.

    Look, Andre is cool. He's the first true giant, he was a sight to see, and he went to different territories for short bursts to give them a sight to behold. Now, let's flip the script a little bit.

    Let's say Big Show was around in the 70's. Would he not be in exactly the same position? Of course he would be! With that said, let's look at Big Show. He's a sight to behold as well (duh), but he exists in the TV era. When that is the case, you are seen multiple times a week and you exist in one company. That means that at some point, the fans have seen what you are and what you do and the "wow" factor is negligible. That's why today people groan when Big Show comes out and aren't in awe of his size. They also believe he can be beaten because he has been.

    See, giants and monsters have short shelve lives in wrestling after the Wrestlemania era. When their only game is being big, they get to a certain point, and then somebody vanquishes them. Yeah, someone like Big Show might get a rare push back to winning a title, but we all know it's going to be short lived when it happens.

    My point is, if Andre existed in Cena's world, he would have been defeated by Cena multiple times over, as well as by people like Batista, Orton, and probably even a CM Punk. He'd be the guy, like Big Show, that you beat to show that you can beat ANYONE.

    Just a quick aside, but do you know what match never happened? Andre vs. Bruno Sammartino? Care to guess why? Because Bruno would have won and Vince Sr. wouldn't want to take away that aura of incinvicibility for those short bursts that he had Andre.

    Cena is the Bruno of his time in so many ways. This is a tournament and there must be a winner. That should be Cena and not in a hard fought contest either. Cena's better than Andre, he's got more staying power than Andre, and if anyone is arguing anything in match in regards to these two, remember that Cena lifted Big Show AND EDGE at the same time. Cena would do whatever he pleased with Andre and he's pin him. Then Andre would buy Cena a beer, drink 36 himself, and they'd go to bed all the richer.
     
    #45
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  21. JJYanks121

    JJYanks121 The Mouth of the South Shore

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    Hogan drew 74,000 to fight Paul Orndorff months before at a glorified house show. If you want to try and argue that only Andre would have been responsible for getting that number from 74 to 93, go ahead, but I think the idea of a wrestling show with Hulk Hogan in a football stadium would have sold regardless.
     
    #46
  22. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    I would hardly say Andre's career was comprised of short bursts. That could be used to describe Big Show, but not someone who made a career out of travelling the territories and beating their best numerous times. Andre dominated his opponents more often than not. Show has only done so in short bursts in between being a alignment flip flopper & jobber. He is very rarely used as a dominant force. That is the difference. I highly doubt Andre would be used in the same way considering he is 10x the talent Show is. If he was around in this time, I am sure he would have a few more losses to his name, but no way he would be misused like you imply.

    As far as Cena having his way with Andre before pinning him....LO fucking L. Short bursts can also be used to describe Cena's show of strength against larger foes. He has never "done what he pleased" against the bigger guys. He may have shown great power by lifting them for an AA, but that is usually after he struggles to get them up once or twice. Plus, he isnt exactly known for throwing larger guys around with suplexes, etc. So implying he would toss Andre around or have his way with him is overselling his ability a bit & underselling Andre a lot.

    Saying John beat Show =/= a win against Andre. Not the same guy & certainly not booked the same way in their careers. Lesnar is a more dominant comparable force the likes of Andre & Cena has a losing record against him. Including a huge loss where Cena was destroyed because Brock did what he pleased against him. Cena looked like a 90lb child against a grizzly bear in that match. Andre would surely take some damage from Cena, but it will not be enough to stop him.
     
    #47
  23. GI Cake

    GI Cake Thank God For Sodamy.

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    John Cena eats a lot of poo poo and I hate poo poo. Andre doesn't eat poo poo so my vote goes to him.
     
    #48
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  24. stblink

    stblink King of the Botches!

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    I voted for John Cena because he has more heavyweight championships and he is known to beat the biggest guys in the biggest matches.
     
    #49
  25. ヒュー G. レックション

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    I say vote Andre! I like Cena but also he's far more despised than Andre ever was. I'd rather Andre win
     
    #50

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