Cena Region, Third Round, Last Man Standing: (4) Lou Thesz vs. (5) Terry Funk

[klunderbunker]

This is a third round match in the Cena Region and it is a Last Man Standing match. It will be held at Madison Square Garden in New York City, New York.

Rules: Anything goes and the only way to win is to knock your opponent down for a count of ten.

#4. Lou Thesz


Vs.

#5. Terry Funk


​

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.


Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Tastycles]

The temptation is to think of this in modern terms and say 'Funk is a glutton for punishment' but the reality is, a hardcore stunt man like the Funk of the 80s and 90s does not get to wrestle main eventers, let alone beat them. The only point in Funk's entire career when he would even have graced the same ring as Thesz would have been in his NWA days. Thesz was a far bigger star in the same territory, and I have no doubt that he would be able to win a match like this by making Funk pass out in a hold. Please don't allow Funk spending the last 30 years cutting himself with barbed wire in ever decreasing sized arenas to cloud your judgement on this one.

 

[NSL]

You're completely neglecting the times where Funk and Hogan headlined SNME at...Madison Square Garden. I'm aware Funk lost those matches, but that was Hogan while he was on top of the world and couldn't lose to anyone for another 2-3 years.

And Funk destroying his body with barbwire and all the other shit is not clouding my judgement either. I'm thinking more about the times when he was in NWA, WCW, and WWF and would come out with the branding iron and beat the snot out of whoever his opponents were. He was always a tough guy, and that's how he got to the position of putting ECW over.

I don't see a time or place where anyone can make Funk stay down for a count of ten, without killing him.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I'm on the fence, but I know that Funk would be super hard to keep down for a ten count. He survived the infamous chair throwing incident, he could survive probably anything Thesz throws his way.

The way I see it is Thesz wouldn't use hardcore tactics to beat Funk, so how else is he going to stay down?

Thesz still has the better career on paper though, and that does matter in the long run. So someone tell me who to vote for.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I think this is one of those matches where the stipulation is vitally important to the result. In a regular wrestling match, I'd put Lou Thesz as the winner against almost anyone, but in a hardcore last man standing match against TERRY F'N FUNK....I'm changing my pick.

I can't see Thesz being comfortable using steel chairs, kendo sticks, sledgehammers or barbed wire baseball bats in a match, but that's bread and butter for The Funker. I'd expect Thesz to stick to the more traditional form of wrestling for the majority of the match, only resorting to weapons when he realised he was getting his ass kicked.

However, Funk will have gone straight for the hardware, he's probably brought a trash can of goodies to the ring with him. Thesz wouldn't know what hit him with a raging, crazed Funk windmilling a ladder at his face. Sorry Lou, but you're out of your comfort zone in this one.

Piledriver on a steel chair...Terry Funk advances.

 

[nightmare]

This is tough. Thesz has the edge on paper due to his resume, but does that mean he can keep Funk down? Any version of Funk is legit, but in a knock down drag out fight the guy is hard to beat. I know Thesz can actually swing a chair or other object, but just having the ability to do so isnt exactly the same as being vicious enough to damn near kill a guy like Funk.


I know Terry has it in him, but does Thesz? Has Lou ever taken a beating like Funk will give him? Unless someone can show evidence of anything close, then I may have to vote Terry Funk. The guy can go if its a technical match & he is a crazy bastard when the steel starts to fly.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

[YOUTUBE]TFI3gG_POCk[/YOUTUBE]

Does anyone think Lou Thesz could handle a match like this? Yes, the ropes in this match aren't made of barb wire...but Funk is 100% allowed to bring barbed wire wrapped weapons with him. Yes, there may not be C4 explosives in the ring...but Funk could bring them with him.

Basically, Thesz wouldn't even THINK of bringing a flaming 2x4 wrapped in razor sharp barbed wire to a wrestling match, while Funk salivates at the thought. I cannot see ANY way Lou Thesz can find a way of keeping Funk down for the count of 10 before Funk has caused him match, and possibly career ending punishment. He's sicker, more violent and more dangerous.

Vote Funk.

 

[enviousdominous]

*sigh* This had to be an anything goes match. Let's think about that for a second, you're telling a guy like Terry Funk that anything goes.

Imagine you send that memo to Lou Thesz. If Lou chose to incorporate any kind of out of the norm factor into this match, he might bring in a chair. There's also the strong possibility that Lou would be all "I don't need to bring anything to this match, I can win with my skill alone." To which I would respond by informing his loved ones that they should get their affairs in order.

Terry Funk getting knocked out, yeah no. This is a guy who has laughed off chair shots to the back of the head and has been legit concussed during matches only to just keep on fighting. Terry Funk is one of those Grigori Rasputin types who couldn't be knocked out if he was fighting the angel of death. His exploits in Japan are legendary when it comes to how much he was willing to endure for a match, and his arsenal when prompted with the option to just choose anything he wants for a match will likely include at least three objects that can explode.

Lou Thesz would easily defeat Terry Funk under most other circumstances. Hell, if this was an Ironman match I can imagine Lou getting over a hundred wins and winning the match early as a technicality.

Lou has never been tested like this, and for most of Terry's career this is all he did. You can pin Terry and you can make him submit, but you cannot make Terry stop fighting.

Vote Terry Funk.

 

[Bernkastel]

Legendary hardcore wrestler The Sheik once ran away from Lou Thesz mid match and hid underneath a bus. He did that not because Thesz was an asshole that would have hurt him on purpose, but he was a wrestler. And when he wrestled he expected his opponent to show the same courtesy. Terry Funk would have known this and respected that. This isn't some hardcore deathmatch where people are going to be swinging chairs and wrapping themselves in barbed wire and lighting each other on fire. It's a last man standing match. Lou could easily trap Funk in the STF and make him pass out from the pain. And that's almost surely to happen.

Vote Thesz.

 

[NSL]

Legendary hardcore wrestler The Sheik once ran away from Lou Thesz mid match and hid underneath a bus. He did that not because Thesz was an asshole that would have hurt him on purpose, but he was a wrestler. And when he wrestled he expected his opponent to show the same courtesy. Terry Funk would have known this and respected that.

Your professional courtesy argument is bullcrap, and you know it. Especially when it comes to Funk. He may respect Thesz, but he wants to win the match.

This isn't some hardcore deathmatch where people are going to be swinging chairs and wrapping themselves in barbed wire and lighting each other on fire. It's a last man standing match.

Who said it can't become a match involving flaming chairs and barbwire bats?

Lou could easily trap Funk in the STF and make him pass out from the pain. And that's almost surely to happen.

It's been a LONG time since Funk has had cartilage in his knees. The STF would be pretty ineffective, if you ask me. Also, Funk is on record as saying the most pain he's ever felt was the barbwire deathmatch with Sabu, and he not only didn't pass out, but he won. So...

Vote Funk.

FTFY

 

[Bernkastel]

Your professional courtesy argument is bullcrap, and you know it. Especially when it comes to Funk. He may respect Thesz, but he wants to win the match.

Then I guess Thesz proceeds to break every bone in his body since we're throwing out professional courtesy.

Who said it can't become a match involving flaming chairs and barbwire bats?

100% subjective dude.

It's been a LONG time since Funk has had cartilage in his knees. The STF would be pretty ineffective, if you ask me. Also, Funk is on record as saying the most pain he's ever felt was the barbwire deathmatch with Sabu, and he not only didn't pass out, but he won. So...

Doesn't matter. Lou continuously applying the STF until Funks passes out is a far more logical outcome to this match given the competitors then Funk wrapping himself in barbed wire and lighting himself on fire like you weird deathmatch kayfabe pushers want this match to become.

Thesz wins. He was better than Funk in every single way possible and could easily put Funk down at any time.

 

[NSL]

100% subjective dude.

Well, this is a subjective tournament, isn't it?

Doesn't matter. Lou continuously applying the STF until Funks passes out is a far more logical outcome to this match given the competitors then Funk wrapping himself in barbed wire and lighting himself on fire like you weird deathmatch kayfabe pushers want this match to become.

Thesz wins. He was better than Funk in every single way possible and could easily put Funk down at any time.

So then we don't make it a deathmatch. You want to konow what Funk did, before becoming the guy he was in ECW? He hit Hogan in the face with a flaming branding iron. If he can do that to Hogan, what stops him from doing it to Thesz? This match will be a lot more than just performing picture perfect suplexes in places that aren't the ring. It's going to involve weapons. Weapons that Funk is more versed with than Thesz.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

I think Lou takes this and its mainly because in a match of this magnitude, it would be the babyface of the era who came out on top.

Amazing, amazing matchup where Funk firsts shows off his wrestling to bamboozle Thesz. Thesz reads and counters, so the old bastard rakes the eye and smacks him in the head with a kendo stick.

Thesz goes over in a brutal fight in the end. Funker taps out to an arm triangle.

 

[enviousdominous]

Lou could easily trap Funk in the STF and make him pass out from the pain. And that's almost surely to happen.

Umm, what!?

While I have no doubt that a technician like Lou Thesz could get Terry Funk into an STF, making Terry pass out from something like pain is not happening. If you dislocated Terry's spine he would just shuffle it back into place and keep fighting.

I don't think that Lou Thesz has ever fought someone with Terry Funk's threshold for pain, and that includes The Sheik.

Lou might be a top five in just about anyone's list of greatest wrestlers, but he's not invincible. I don't think that Terry would make Lou pass out from a painful submission hold, I think that Terry would hit Lou so hard with a chair that his ancestors would feel it.

Thesz goes over in a brutal fight in the end. Funker taps out to an arm triangle.

Funker can tap until he dislocates his wrist, it won't make a difference . You could dislocate both of Funk's knees and he'll still get up to break the ten count.

 

[Bernkastel]

Well, this is a subjective tournament, isn't it?

No, it's not. Never has been.

So then we don't make it a deathmatch. You want to konow what Funk did, before becoming the guy he was in ECW? He hit Hogan in the face with a flaming branding iron. If he can do that to Hogan, what stops him from doing it to Thesz? This match will be a lot more than just performing picture perfect suplexes in places that aren't the ring. It's going to involve weapons. Weapons that Funk is more versed with than Thesz.

Who cares? Lou Thesz once had 3 of his ribs legitimately broken in a match and still had the will and fortitude to recover and win the match. Do you really think a branding iron is going to keep Lou Thesz down for a 10 count? No. But do you know what will keep Terry Funk down? Repeated applications of the STF or double wrist lock. Lou once legit knocked out Antonino Rocca with a backdrop suplex. He could easily do the same to Funk.

 

[Bernkastel]

Umm, what!?

While I have no doubt that a technician like Lou Thesz could get Terry Funk into an STF, making Terry pass out from something like pain is not happening. If you dislocated Terry's spine he would just shuffle it back into place and keep fighting.

I don't think that Lou Thesz has ever fought someone with Terry Funk's threshold for pain, and that includes The Sheik.

And Terry Funk has never fought someone with Thesz's tenacity before. If Ric Flair can force Terry to say "I Quit" then why couldn't someone like Lou Thesz hurt Terry so badly that he couldn't answer a 10 count?

Lou might be a top five in just about anyone's list of greatest wrestlers, but he's not invincible. I don't think that Terry would make Lou pass out from a painful submission hold, I think that Terry would hit Lou so hard with a chair that his ancestors would feel it.

No, he's not. But you certainly make Terry Funk out to be that way if he can magically fuse a broken spine back into place and keep on going.

Lou KOing Terry is a very plausible and realistic way for this match to end.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Funker can tap until he dislocates his wrist, it won't make a difference . You could dislocate both of Funk's knees and he'll still get up to break the ten count.

Ye just realized. Funker passes out basically from the pain. Lou Thesz is great in endurance matches and a big match winner.

 

[NSL]

No, it's not. Never has been.

Then what's the point of voting?

Who cares? Lou Thesz once had 3 of his ribs legitimately broken in a match and still had the will and fortitude to recover and win the match. Do you really think a branding iron is going to keep Lou Thesz down for a 10 count? No. But do you know what will keep Terry Funk down? Repeated applications of the STF or double wrist lock. Lou once legit knocked out Antonino Rocca with a backdrop suplex. He could easily do the same to Funk.

Lou had the ribs broken in a match, but Funk has gone into hardcore matches knowing that one wrong move could paralyze him for life, or kill him. In his late 50s, he was doing moonsaults off ladders. Has Lou Thesz ever done a moonsault off a ladder? Does he understand the amount of pain that can cause, and still manage to stand?

Even if he's done it once, Terry's done it more. The man just will not die.

Also, I'm sure you're aware Funk was the NWA champion in 1975, and holds victories over Giant Baba (in Japan) and Pat O' Connor, right? Both of those are guys you yourself have defended strongly on this forum. So...if Funk can beat them in a straight wrestling match, how could he not beat Thesz, in Funk's own element?

 

[Bernkastel]

Then what's the point of voting?

To vote the best name forward. Which is obviously Lou Thesz.

Lou had the ribs broken in a match, but Funk has gone into hardcore matches knowing that one wrong move could paralyze him for life, or kill him. In his late 50s, he was doing moonsaults off ladders. Has Lou Thesz ever done a moonsault off a ladder? Does he understand the amount of pain that can cause, and still manage to stand?

So? Lou Thesz was still wrestling into his 70's. Hell, he was winning world title in his 60's. And you want me to believe that Funk was better because he could throw moonsaults in his 50's? Nice try. Lets see if Funk can throw suplexes and keep up with 30 year olds in the ring at age 74. He's 71 right now.

Even if he's done it once, Terry's done it more. The man just will not die.

Riiight Where was this never say die attitude when he quit against Ric Flair. Where was this impossible to defeat Terry Funk then?

Also, I'm sure you're aware Funk was the NWA champion in 1975, and holds victories over Giant Baba (in Japan) and Pat O' Connor, right? Both of those are guys you yourself have defended strongly on this forum. So...if Funk can beat them in a straight wrestling match, how could he not beat Thesz, in Funk's own element?

And? Neither one of those guys are on the level of Lou Thesz. Kane is my favorite wrestler ever, but that's not going to stop me from voting Austin over him. Austin was better and should win. Just like Thesz was better than Funk and should win this match.

 

[nightmare]

Ech, if you think for a second Terry Funk would respect Thesz enough as a wrestler & not whip out some weapons in this match, then you are a damn fool.

The guy can respect someone & still put them through hell to ensure his own survival. He may hang with him a bit, keeping it traditional, but rest assured something metal & dangerous is coming into play. Thesz is more likely to play it clean & refuse to use weapons than Funk would. That is a big mistake & will bite him in the ass.

For your "he will just make him pass out" scenario to work, Thesz would have to first get Funk worked over a bit. Once Terry starts feeling the pain & that he is in danger, he becomes a crazy motherfucker backed into a corner. If you want to put a rabid dog down, you have to get close enough to do so & I dont think Thesz will be able to apply the hold so easily once Funk switches gears. The guy will be swinging everything not nailed down at his opponent & become a whirlwind of twisted steel, making it very hard for Thesz to get his hands on him, or down Funk long enough to get a victory.


You cannot really apply the STF when a maniac is smashing you with metal objects. If you think you can, then I welcome you to come attempt the move on me while I am swinging a branding iron at your head. Not gonna happen & I am only a quarter crazy to Funk's insanity.

 

[Bernkastel]

Ech, if you think for a second Terry Funk would respect Thesz enough as a wrestler & not whip out some weapons in this match, then you are a damn fool.

I don't deny that he might try, but it would be awfully hard to do this when Thesz is stretching his ass. The only way Terry would even be able get away to get a weapon is if he out-wrestled Thesz [not happening] or if Lou let him get away [also not happening.] If Terry didn't want to wrestle Thesz, Lou would make him wrestle.

The guy can respect someone & still put them through hell to ensure his own survival. He may hang with him a bit, keeping it traditional, but rest assured something metal & dangerous is coming into play. Thesz is more likely to play it clean & refuse to use weapons than Funk would. That is a big mistake & will bite him in the ass.

Terry might bust out a chair and bust Lou over the head with it, but it won't keep him down any more than a chair shot from Thesz would keep Terry Funk down. But this isn't going to devolve into some hardcore death match scenario. That's ******ed.

For your "he will just make him pass out" scenario to work, Thesz would have to first get Funk worked over a bit. Once Terry starts feeling the pain & that he is in danger, he becomes a crazy motherfucker backed into a corner. If you want to put a rabid dog down, you have to get close enough to do so & I dont think Thesz will be able to apply the hold so easily once Funk switches gears. The guy will be swinging everything not nailed down at his opponent & become a whirlwind of twisted steel, making it very hard for Thesz to get his hands on him, or down Funk long enough to get a victory.

So I guess when Funk feels enough rage he somehow becomes intangible. Lou could just simply grab his wrist and snap it. But since we are in magic fairy land I guess Terry would just snap it back into place and just start attacking Thesz with weapons while Thesz just stands there and takes it... riiight.

Want to know a realistic way for Thesz to counter this inhuman rage garbage of Terry's? His roll through cross arm breaker that he used in just about every match. Transitioned into a leg scissors hold. And Terry will just be flailing about trying to get out of it and wasting his energy. From there Thesz will have control and will begin the process of wearing Terry down for the submission.

You cannot really apply the STF when a maniac is smashing you with metal objects. If you think you can, then I welcome you to come attempt the move on me while I am swinging a branding iron at your head. Not gonna happen & I am only a quarter crazy to Funk's insanity.

So Thesz just stands there and doesn't even try to disarm Terry or move out of the way because Terry is an insane motherfucker who cannot be defeated under any circumstances.

Remarkable logic. Thesz wins.

 

[nightmare]

Never said he would just stand there. You are trying to say Funk would so easily get caught by Stretchington Von Chesthair & his magical technical wrestling superpowers that Funk would never be able to get out of such wizardry. That is absurd, when you yourself know Funk is a capable mat wrestler as well. Do you think Funk would just stand there and let Thesz make him a bitch? Does he also have mind control powers rendering his opponents useless against his will?

Your crazy logic comes after the ridiculous statement that Funk respects Thesz enough to not use weapons. In what match has that ever happened where the stipulation or rules of said match were never an issue? Saying that Funk would not use weapons if the rules allow it is just dumb & your way of trying to use skewed logic to justify a win for your guy despite him being at a disadvantage. If Thesz is your Superman, I would like to introduce you to Terry "Kryptonite" Funk. This match may not be some Japanese death match, but Funk would certainly use anything available to him in order to win here.

The stipulation puts Thesz at a disadvantage by being held in a match Funk made his playground for years after his runs being great at more traditional/technical wrestling. Thesz would surely not just stand there and get hit, but even trying to block or disarm Funk, he would still take some major shots in the process. Then it boils down to how effective Thesz can be applying a submission hold after getting hit with things he is not used to. Lou has never fought a match like this to my knowledge. Funk thrived in them.


Thesz has shown to be a straight laced traditionalist who would frown upon using weapons. Funk has shown he will use anything to hurt a guy & that you damn near have to kill him fighting fire with fire, so to speak, in order to beat him in these things. Funk passing out to an STF is not a very logical scenario, especially when Thesz would avoid doing what is necessary to level the playing field.

Vote with the legacy argument Ech, at least that carries weight. Saying weapons would not be an issue in this or downplaying the toughness of Funk is just showing you are wearing blinders again in favor of your old school tribe. Especially the argument you made saying Funk would respect him enough to keep it a traditional match. That has got to be one of the silliest things ever said.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

I've got a lot of adoration for Terry Funk, but Thesz is just a completely different animal. Some of the various joint manipulations that Thesz would use against Funk could definitely make him re-think his stance on the showdown with Sabu being the most painful... Thesz also knew plenty of submission holds... and he wouldn't have to make Funk pass out from the pain... He could simply slap on any of the hundreds of different chokes he's learned through his world travel.

Funk's a tough bastard and well versed in weaponry... but Lou Thesz himself is a weapon. I would rather take a branding iron to the head than be stretched on by Thesz for a minute. I see Thesz choking Funk into unconsciousness and picking up the win in a hard-fought duel of legends... Thesz just happens to be the bigger legend of the two.

Vote Lou Thesz.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Then what's the point of voting?


Has Lou Thesz ever done a moonsault off a ladder?

There you go.

The only real way to decide the outcome of this... or quite frankly any match.

If the guys never done a moonsault off of a ladder, then how in the hell can anyone expect him to win?

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Real post time:

The Last Man Standing Match is basically a variation of a match that both of these men are very familiar with. A staple of 60's and 70's wrestling, especially in Texas which was Funk's home, and a place Thesz visited frequently.

The Texas Death Match.

The only real difference between this match, and the one they're both used to? In a Texas Death match, you first have to pin your opponent or make them submit before the 10 count starts. Here you just have to knock your opponent down to start it. So honestly, the match that both Thesz and Funk fought a bunch of times over the years was probably tougher than this one.

Funk was good in them. Won some. Lost some.

Thesz... I couldn't find a record of him ever losing one. Closest I found was a curfew draw with Fritz Von Erich, which likely was just done by Thesz as a political favor.

The building manager isn't shutting the lights off for this one though, so there's no favors happening this time.

I next looked up Thesz's history with the Funks, because he did travel to Amarillo a fair bit. I was hoping to find out that these guys had actually had this match before, but unfortunately not.

Thesz did fight the Funk's a fair bit though. Also teamed with Terry's dad a few times, and his brother a couple of times too.

Thesz beat Terry's dad every time they got in the ring together.
Thesz beat Terry's brother almost every time they fought, only ever losing to him later in his career, when Dory was at his peak and Thesz was in his 50's.
Thesz fought Terry the least, but they did have 2 matches. Neither is very comparable here.

In 1969 in St. Louis, when Funk was coming up in the business and Thesz was on his way down after competing for decades (he was in his early 50's, Funk was 25). Thesz defeated Funk. A little telling here, because Thesz was past his NWA champion time by then, and Funk getting a match like that in St. Louis was a big deal for him. Him still not going over Thesz despite it being an optimal time to have someone like Thesz really make Funk by lying down for him... is probably the biggest indicator of how this should go between them.

The second time they fought was in 1975. Thesz was almost 60. Funk would win the NWA title only a few months after this match. Funk won that one.

Considering their history with each other. Their history in this type of a match. And for the hardcore fans who worship Terry Funk today, if they could consider the fact that in all of his crazy, insane, hardcore matches... Funk more times than not would put his opponent over at the end of it...

considering all that, there really is only one way to go here.

The man who the US Army asked to teach them how to fight in World War II is the man who should and would win this match.

Vote for Lou Thesz