Cena Region, Fourth Round, 60 Minute Iron Man Match: (1) John Cena vs. (5) Terry Funk

[JGlass]

Coco's argument is that Terry Funk wrestled plenty of hour long matches, and therefore has more experience and endurance than John Cena.

This is flawed logic. Because Terry Funk's hour long matches were not iron man matches. They were regular matches that Terry Funk couldn't win within an hour.

Coco's argument is essentially that because Terry couldn't get the job done within an hour and Cena can get the job done in ten minutes, this means Terry is a better wrestler because he wrestled for longer periods of time.

That's like saying that because the Calgary Flames (who didn't make the playoffs) had more OT wins this season than the Florida Panthers (who won their division), the Flames are the superior team.

John Cena doesn't wrestle hour-long matches because he doesn't need to. He's a superb athlete and dominant powerhouse who regularly finishes even his toughest opponents within 20 minutes. The man beat Brock Lesnar in 17 minutes. Terry Funk would have been snapped in half by Brock Lesnar within 5.

So while John Cena is beating some of the best wrestlers of all time in approximately 20 minutes, Terry Funk was being taken to the time limit by guys you've probably never heard of (and not just because they're from a long time ago, but because they're completely and utterly forgettable).

John Cena would destroy Terry Funk. The match would play out like Cena is going to be an impossible feat for Funk, but then Funk surprises everyone by being impossible to keep down. Cena would finally get a pin, Funk would take one back by surprise, and then as time winds down Cena would get that final pin on Funk that wins him the match. Both men look good, but the better man wins.

Vote Cena.

 

[Coco]

Coco's argument is that Terry Funk wrestled plenty of hour long matches, and therefore has more experience and endurance than John Cena.

So far so good.

This is flawed logic. Because Terry Funk's hour long matches were not iron man matches. They were regular matches that Terry Funk couldn't win within an hour.

You drove that off a cliff pretty quick.

You realize that none of those all-time greats who were facing peak Terry beat him over the course of that hour, right? Because that's the crux of the argument.

Meanwhile, peak Cena eats five falls to Randy Orton in an hour long match.

How's he going to stack up against peak Funk who a) is better than Orton and b) doesn't easily succumb to a single fall in an hour?

That's like saying that because the Calgary Flames (who didn't make the playoffs) had more OT wins this season than the Florida Panthers (who won their division), the Flames are the superior team.

I'm not a hockey guy, but I'm sure there's some false-equivalency going on here.

John Cena doesn't wrestle hour-long matches because he doesn't need to.

Or he lacks the appropriate competition to push him.

And as established earlier, when Cena gets pushed, he loses more often than not.

So while John Cena is beating some of the best wrestlers of all time in approximately 20 minutes, Terry Funk was being taken to the time limit by guys you've probably never heard of (and not just because they're from a long time ago, but because they're completely and utterly forgettable).

Thank you for voluntarily conceding your credibility. Consent is important to me and you're my friend. I'm glad this didn't need to get awkward.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

I'll be honest, this is a good point. Cena does have a tendency to lose matches that go on for a long time, and with the stipulation, this is guaranteed to go on for a long time. However, the majority of your examples were at a time where Cena had very little to gain in winning them; they weren't decisive loses and it wasn't long before Cena was back on top once more. In the WZT, where both men have everything to gain from a win, there's no doubt in my mind that a prime Cena would be booked to defeat a prime Funk in this kind of match.?

Vs Punk, fighting for WWE's honor and he would be fired if he lost.
Vs HBK, pride which is huge for Cena. But I'll give you that one.
Vs D Bryan, the only thing Cena cares more about than his honor and pride is the world title.
Vs Rock, another honor and pride one. Rock cost him the belt and made it seem like if Cena couldn't beat Rock that his career was meaningless.
Vs Edge, another world title match against a bitter rival.

John Cena cares about a match vs R Truth on Raw, let alone major matches.

 

[NSL]

Man, this hurts.

I'd love to vote Funk, and I would like to think he'd jump to an early lead, but the last match, and then this being 60-minutes...it hurts him. Even if he jumped to an "insurmountable" lead of 3-0, he's going to be broken down, and winded, and Cena is the ultimate babyface, capable of making any comeback at any time.

I want this to be close, but my vote is going to Cena.

 

[klunderbunker]

Let's take a look at a few things here, starting with those five falls that Cena lost in an hour.

First fall: RKO
Second fall: double countout for a fall each, making that a draw instead of a loss
Third fall: Pin after a Legacy beatdown, which would have been a DQ in this match
Fourth fall: Pin after throwing Cena into the production set, again a DQ here
Fifth fall: DDT on the floor after cheating during the rest period

Now, would Orton have gotten the falls back anyway off the ensuing pinfalls and stayed close anyway? Yeah probably, but that brings us to the interesting point: strategy.

Let's take a quick look at the first fall Cena gave up to the RKO. That tied the score at one fall apiece after Orton tapped out to the STF in less than four minutes. Yeah tapping out to a hold in less than four minutes in a World Title match isn't something that you're going to see that often, but it's something you see in an Iron Man match because it makes sense. Orton would rather give up an early fall and save himself to fight later.

This is where I think Funk falls. Funk does indeed have WAY more experience going long than Cena but he doesn't have experience outside of one fall to a finish matches. Now, is it complicated to figure out that you can keep fighting later? Of course not. What is complicated though is Terry Funk using his brain. If there's one thing that Funk is known for, it's being completely insane more often than not. I don't see him being willing to give up a fall early, if nothing else due to that Texas pride. Funk's stubbornness will get in his way and Cena will win a very hard fought match with the length not really being an issue. Cena's cardio is possibly the best of all time and going an hour isn't going to be an issue for him.

 

[Coco]

Funk doesn't have experience outside of one fall matches?

Did you really just imply that Terry Funk didn't work 2/3 fall matches regularly in his heyday?

Come on, KB.

 

[klunderbunker]

Funk doesn't have experience outside of one fall matches?

Did you really just imply that Terry Funk didn't work 2/3 fall matches regularly in his heyday?

Come on, KB.

Yeah by mistake. Quick clarification:

Funk doesn't have a ton of experience in a match where he can burn off a fall or two for the sake of saving himself, though he has even less of a chance of actually doing something like that as he would rather just take the damage and save the fall, which costs him in the long run.

 

[nightmare]

Lets look at some factors this kind of boils down to.

Muscles do not always equal endurance. Endurance and conditioning are things you will need here. We have limited knowledge of Cena being able to go in long matches. We can assume he has enough in the tank to do so again here, but we know for a fact Funk can. He wrestled in a time where the matches went the full time limit quite frequently. Funk has more experience here so he gets the point.


Next up is getting the job done for a fall. Funk has wrestled plenty of that went to limit with no falls & that isnt really a knock against him. He faced tougher competition than Cena did against Randy. If those bad asses could not get a fall on Funk, it would be tougher for Cena to do so here than some think. Coco pointed out that if Randy can pull some out, then Funk is capable of doing so +1. That does not also mean Cena will have the same success against Funk he had with Randy. It comes down to who has the arsenal. Funk will be harder to put down than Cena's previous opponent in a similar match.

Next point. Moveset. Cena is king of the 5 moves of doom. Trying to get out of that shadow has caused him to incorporate a sloppy hurricanrana & a odd looking, somewhat clumsy springboard stunner. The guy lacks what Funk has in the pure wrestling department. Funk was better there than most remember & he will be able to use that to wear Cena down while taking whatever power moves get thrown his way. Funk has lasted the limit with no falls plenty against far better wrestles/brawlers than John.

So now people focus on how Cena used his limited move set to dispatch foes in a timely fashion & that brings me to this.

The AA will be good for one fall & likely one fall only, if at all. That is John's big move & honestly has not been as effective for quite some time now. How often does Cena have to pull out 2 or 3 of those to get the job done? Quite a bit & against those lower on the scale than Funk. If lesser men have taken a few & still kept going, then Cena will have to fire off quite a few to put Terry away. His only other hope is for an STF & well, if the originator of that move could not put Funker down last round then Cena is not likely to have a better outcome.


If you want to vote on star power, the I cant fault you & Cena is the guy. If you are voting with your head, based on the match type and ability to out wrestle your opponent, then Funk has the clear advantage. Terry has wrestled the limit with no falls, but has also won plenty multi fall matches against men better than Cena. If those men came up short against Funk, then Cena will likely have similar results. Pictures with cancer kids , being a positive roll model & great for P.R. are all good things you want from a champ, but they will not score you pinfall victories against a man who is hard to put down in this match type.

 

[Slyfox696]

Lets look at some factors this kind of boils down to.

Muscles do not always equal endurance. Endurance and conditioning are things you will need here. We have limited knowledge of Cena being able to go in long matches.

No we don't and I stopped reading your post here. We've seen Cena go in long matches many times in his career, whether it is in Iron Man matches, PPV matches or Raw matches. And just because Terry Funk worked in a time of pro wrestling where national TV wasn't a thing, that doesn't mean he has the advantage.

John Cena's cardio is out of this world and anyone in the know would tell you the same thing. At the end of the day, John Cena is the bigger star, with many memorable great matches and has headlined some of the biggest wrestling shows in history. John Cena takes this and anyone voting for Funk is probably only doing so because they think liking old wrestlers makes you cooler, or some stupid thing like that.

 

[JGlass]

You realize that none of those all-time greats who were facing peak Terry beat him over the course of that hour, right? Because that's the crux of the argument.

What, like three or four all time greats?

Anyway, I see what you're saying: The best offense is a good defense. But when John Cena can pick up wins over guys like Brock Lesnar, I don't see Terry Funk being able to outlast Cena's power while getting in enough damage of his own to put Cena down.

Furthermore, Terry Funk has never had to deal with the type of athlete that John Cena is. Terry Funk lost his title to Harley Race, a man who had the reputation of being as strong as they come. He's probably the closest thing to John Cena in 1975, and he was too much for Funk.

Meanwhile, peak Cena eats five falls to Randy Orton in an hour long match.

I'm going to break kayfabe here and say that, when taking other factors into consideration like era and the fact that most of Funk's matches weren't PPV, let alone televised, comparing a regular match in the 70s to an Iron Man match on a WWE PPV in the 21st century is weak. Two entirely different beasts.

How's he going to stack up against peak Funk who a) is better than Orton and b) doesn't easily succumb to a single fall in an hour?

Terry Funk and Paul Jones (who?) wrestled to a 60 minute draw.

There's no way John Cena is wrestling a 60 minute draw with a guy who never won a top title.

Or he lacks the appropriate competition to push him.

Oh brother.

John Cena has been wrestling against main event level competition since his debut in the WWE. He's defeated names like Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Randy Orton, CM Punk, Edge, Brock Lesnar, The Rock (and don't tell me he was over the hill, because when Cena did beat him it was his first loss since his return to the business), Batista, and you know what, fuck it, Keven Owens/Steen.

No doubt, Terry Funk has also wrestled and beat many big names, but the era we're talking about includes Dusty Rhodes, Giant Baba, Jack Brisco, and Harley Race. I'm assuming NWA Heavyweight Champion Funk is the Funk you're talking about because otherwise, his endurance will be called into question.

And as established earlier, when Cena gets pushed, he loses more often than not.

Huh? What? Beg pardon?

Considering Cena wins the majority of his PPV matches, let alone BIG PPV matches, I'm not sure why this has been established.

If you mean pushed on time, I'd again break kayfabe to point out that Terry Funk's NWA and 21st century WWE are two totally different beasts. Look at any NWA card during Funk's time as champ and you'd be hard pressed to find a card without a match that outlasts 99% of today's WWE matches.

If you want to compare a 60 minute match to today's wrestling world, I think your best best is comparing it to matches that go approximately 25 minutes with 5 minute wiggle room to either side. Very few matches stretch past 25 minutes, and that seems to be the average time stamp for the matches that really get people excited these days.

And John Cena wins most of those. So...

Thank you for voluntarily conceding your credibility. Consent is important to me and you're my friend. I'm glad this didn't need to get awkward.

You got me, it was late, I was trying to hammer out a post before I went to bed and got lazy. So let's clarify...

We're just going to pretend that Rufus Jones, Chief Wahoo McDaniel, Dick Slater, and Paul Jones (who?!) are big names now?

No, Terry Funk had a few matches against your legendary names like Jack Brisco and Dusty Rhodes, but most of his NWA Title Reign was spent defending against guys who never rose above being regional stars.

 

[Dan Severn's Moustache]

Except in kayfabe, the whole point of working those main events is to win and take home the big purse. So your theory makes no sense.

In kayfabe, by tying these matches instead of pushing himself too hard to win them decisively and risk achieving the worst possible outcome, Funk still gets a respectable pay day, and maintains his position as a main event wrestler to continue receiving the money.

It's inter-era fake professional wrestling. At some level, a lot of these matches are going to come down to some level of extrapolation and finding equivalencies across the decades. Nuance isn't smoke and mirrors just because it's causing your brain to overheat.

I can understand that some level of adjustments are needed in order to evaluate who would win over the other between wrestlers in two very different eras. My argument is that you're using multiple theories to prove a hypothesis, instead of what we already know about both Funk and Cena.

Funk's endgame is always to win. He has more heart than you'd give him credit for.

That is not an argument based entirely on heart though, this is an argument backed with facts that you have provided in your initial post in this thread.

I'm also not ignoring that Orton ate six. A guy who ate six hung five on Cena. Funk is going to walk all over Big Match John.

You seem to flip-flop a lot on Orton when it seems to suit your argument.

While I've knocked Orton many times in this thread for not being on Funk's level, Orton has proved to be suitably competitive against Cena and plenty bad-ass in gimmick situations. We're talking about a guy who has a lengthy list of people he seriously concussed and put on the shelf, ranging from HBK to RVD to Y2J. Orton will give Cena a brutal streetfight. Cena and Funk will be comparably beat up coming into this one.

So it's still 1-1? Gotcha.

In solo matches for the year, yes. But Cena ended his feud with HBK and by extension, Orton and Edge by defending his title at Backlash 2007. He was the biggest winner by the end of it.

Yeah, Cena had little to win in world title matches, a big match in London against a fierce rival, and a match with Rock that he spoke about as though it would define is legacy. Of course Cena had no problem losing those matches.

And once again, when it's convenient you assume Cena's heart isn't in it. Who's using smoke and mirrors now?

This wasn't an argument that I proposed from a kayfabe stance though; this was always an argument based on booking. With the examples you have provided, Cena had less business winning these matches than the other talent due to a multitude of factors. With Punk, HBK and Rock, it was feud enhancement in order to establish these 3 men as credible threats to Cena's position at the top of the company. With Daniel Bryan, it was primarily due to Cena taking a temporary leave of absence, and Bryan just so happened to be the hottest thing at the time. With Edge, it was to establish another feud with The Big Show (since Big Show interfered and chokeslammed Cena through a spotlight).

In all five of these examples, who maintained their hegemonial position at the top of the WWE ladder, whether it be through ultimately winning the feud, or having the longevity to outlast his other rivals?

Against what you're offering up? Yeah.

An argument based on actual facts and statistics is worse than one based on hypothesising different scenarios in a position where a different scenario is already taking place?

 

[nightmare]

No we don't and I stopped reading your post here. We've seen Cena go in long matches many times in his career, whether it is in Iron Man matches, PPV matches or Raw matches. And just because Terry Funk worked in a time of pro wrestling where national TV wasn't a thing, that doesn't mean he has the advantage.

John Cena's cardio is out of this world and anyone in the know would tell you the same thing. At the end of the day, John Cena is the bigger star, with many memorable great matches and has headlined some of the biggest wrestling shows in history. John Cena takes this and anyone voting for Funk is probably only doing so because they think liking old wrestlers makes you cooler, or some stupid thing like that.

I dont subscribe to the old school makes you cool mentality & said the Cena vote has merit if you go off legacy. You know this because despite you playing cool by saying you stopped reading, you did read it all. I dont blindly vote based on the era worked in, but I call em like I see em. Sometimes that means the older guy wins, sometimes he loses.

Cena has had far less matches than Funk that went a longer time & you know this like we all do. We can assume Cena has the cardio to keep up, but it is proven Funk does. There is more evidence that Funk wrestled these longer matches frequently. A fact bears more weight than a high probability. Regardless, cardio only plays a small part in this. We are not going to wrestle to a draw & get hooked up to heart monitors to determine the winner.


Funk is hard to put down & better men than Cena failed to get the job done in matches similar to this. The AA has become increasingly less effective over time & NWA era Funk could wrestle circles around the stronger Cena.

Again, the legacy & stand up good guy award goes to Cena & I cannot argue that. If you want to go off getting the job done in this match, then Funk is your man. It wont be easy, it will be close, but a real argument is made that Funk has what it takes.

 

[Bernkastel]

So basically Thesz supporters were robbed of the chance of a Thesz/Cena rematch because Funk supporters wanted to turn a simple Last Man Standing man into some hardcore death match akin to something New Jack would work, and not something that captured the imagination or spirit of either man. So why not do that here?

This is an Iron Man Match right? Who's to say that after a few minutes of getting his ass kicked by Cena that this hardcore motherfucker Terry Funk wouldn't just exit the ring to get a few weapons. Whats a DQ mean to someone like Terry Funk? Absolutely nothing. Especially when his game plan could be to pick up a few pin falls after beating Cena's ass with various weapons. How's Cena going to handle some guy whose wrapped himself in barbed wire while whirling a ladder in his face? Well, it's a good thing that Cena defies all human logic.

Funk could smash Cena's face in with a barbie bat and Cena would still kick out at 2. Funk could set the ring on fire, Cena would burn to death and his charred corpse would still kick out at 2. Funk could bisect Cena at the waist with a chain saw, all the guts and gore spraying out onto the audience covering all the cancer kids with the blood of their hero... and Cena would still kick out at 2. There's no feasible way for Terry Funk to beat John Cena here. Funk can't even see Cena, so he'd be fighting nothing but the air. He wouldn't be able to sense Cena's presence until the man was about to drive his ass through the ring with an AA.

John Cena is the greatest pro wrestler in the last 20 years. Bar none. Terry Funk was inferior to his own brother and is mostly remembered for being a novelty hardcore act in a glorified Indy promotion for a number of years. This match isn't close. Cena is the only smart and logic option here.

The champ is heeeeeereee!!!

 

[enviousdominous]

[YOUTUBE]f12lTdNn1jU[/YOUTUBE]

This hit, that stone cold, tough as nails, not too old
This one for them hood punks, them boy scouts, saying Cena Sucks
Fire, barbed wire, we're gonna go to war
Got a weapon loaded dump truck
Gonna bleed tonight, I'm hardcore

I'm hardcore (hot damn)
Call the po-lice and the fireman
I'm hardcore (hot damn)
Make John Cena wanna retire, man
I'm hardcore (hot damn)
Say my name you know who I am
I'm hardcore (hot damn)
And my fist 'bout that KO
Break it down...

Terry hit your superhero (ouch)
Terry hit your superhero (ouch)
Terry hit your superhero (ouch)
'Cause Hardcore Funk gon' give it to ya
'Cause Badass Funk gon' give it to ya
'Cause Terry Funk gon' give it to ya
Saturday night and John takes a dive
Don't believe me just watch (Come on)

Vote Terry Funk.

 

[nightmare]

I think Ech is broken.


C'mon man, laying it on a bit thick dont you think? The SuperCena argument because you are sore over a loss last round is beneath you.


Are any of the Cena supporters going to put up a logical reason why he would win, or are we just going with CenawinsLOL because he beat Orton in ONE of these, grants wishes & has high merch sales? If match relevance, talent & other factors are no longer part of this thing, then why have a tournament? WZ could just post a spreadsheet of the top earning wrestlers of all time, award bonus points for how many pictures they took with cancer kids & hand out trophies accordingly.


I have grown to understand & appreciate Cena over the years, but it does not mean I should ignore it when someone could actually beat him in a match during these things. Again, there is no denying that his vote has merits, but ignoring the match stipulation & ability of his opponent in favor of merch sales & such seems like a cop out. Those things & the number of main titles won should be used as a tie breaker if the match-up is otherwise even, IMO, not as a main reason for argument.


Plus, let's not forget that in spite of all those things he has going for him, John Cena is the only man I can recall that has a rather mediocre W\L record when compared to the other legendary talent he is listed among so often. Must mean that he met some bumps along the way on his path to glory that happened to be better than him on a given night. The bump this time happens to be named Terry Funk. A guy who does not have to wrap himself in flaming barbed wire to beat Cena here. He is capable of getting it done without all the crazy shit that came later in his career & certainly is not scared of an elevated fireman's carry so weak that it usually takes 2 or 3 to put people down for a count. Unless he is planning on spamming off a baker's dozen of them to rack some points, while Funk gains no falls (because LOL SuperCena wins like Ech has jokingly suggested)... I dont see John winning this.


I would probably have voted Cena over many other guys in this, but I could not vote him over Thesz in this match & certainly wont vote him over Funk, who just beat Thesz regardless of how narrow the victory was. Terry should take this.

 

[JJYanks121]

I'm going to flip the main argument for Funk on its side. It has been argued by many that because Funk has gone 60 more times, that gives him the advantage. Unfortunately, nobody has considered what going 60 meant back then compared to now.

Back in the day, going 60 meant plenty of resting. Modern fans would hate those matches due to lack of action. More is expected of talent today, so Funk doing what he did then today would be booed mercilessly.

While I'm not arguing that going 60 is ever easy, it's certainly easier when less is expected of you. With that in mind, Cena wrestles to the standard of what today's wrestler must live up to. Thus, in longer matches, he takes less rests and provides more action and STILL maintains his stamina. It is in these matches that people have marveled most at Cena, most notably in the HBK match where HBK, a noted distance goer, was looking winded at about 40 minutes while Cena looked like he just started.

Terry Funk couldn't keep up with Cena because he never had to face a guy who would push him through all 60 minutes like Cena. Heck, I'd give a better chance to Dory Funk in an Iron Man match against Cena and he'd still lose. The match stipulation actually favors Cena, as does being the bigger star. This is Cena's match.

 

[Coco]

Terry Funk couldn't keep up with Cena because he never had to face a guy who would push him through all 60 minutes like Cena.

If this is a standard, why even bother including older stars in this thing every year? Obviously the standard keeps being raised as time goes on and there's no basis for comparison. Thus, the top name of whatever era we're in should win every year.

Cena vs Reigns final confirmed for the next five years!

Wrestling being slower in Funk's day doesn't mean it was any less grueling. Funk deliberately pressing Cena's flesh in a way that no modern star ever has is going to wear him thin as butter. As for Cena pushing Funk through sixty minutes, how does Big Match John do that when in classic Cena fashion he spends a good chunk of the match on his back?

Very few matches stretch past 25 minutes, and that seems to be the average time stamp for the matches that really get people excited these days.

And John Cena wins most of those. So...

No. He doesn't. Check the record books, sir. Use a stopwatch in conjunction with the WWE Network if necessary. Don't worry. I'll wait.

This wasn't an argument that I proposed from a kayfabe stance though; this was always an argument based on booking. With the examples you have provided, Cena had less business winning these matches than the other talent due to a multitude of factors. With Punk, HBK and Rock, it was feud enhancement in order to establish these 3 men as credible threats to Cena's position at the top of the company. With Daniel Bryan, it was primarily due to Cena taking a temporary leave of absence, and Bryan just so happened to be the hottest thing at the time. With Edge, it was to establish another feud with The Big Show (since Big Show interfered and chokeslammed Cena through a spotlight).

In all five of these examples, who maintained their hegemonial position at the top of the WWE ladder, whether it be through ultimately winning the feud, or having the longevity to outlast his other rivals?

Glad we can agree that Cena did in fact lose those matches. Thanks.

 

[Slyfox696]

I dont subscribe to the old school makes you cool mentality

Then really there's no argument to be made for Funk here.

said the Cena vote has merit if you go off legacy. You know this because despite you playing cool by saying you stopped reading, you did read it all.

Umm, no I really didn't. I figured if you were going to start your post with something so ridiculously absurd, there was no reason to think the rest of the post was going to get any better.

I dont blindly vote based on the era worked in, but I call em like I see em.

Then perhaps you ought to have your vision checked if you think Cena hasn't proven his cardio.

Cena has had far less matches than Funk that went a longer time

He's also had far less matches where people just lay on the mat or stand outside the ring for 15 minutes. What's your point? Giving Funk credit for working in the non-TV era makes as much sense as saying Cena is better because he beats scrubs in two minutes, rather than 10-15 like Funk would have.

Your length of match argument has no merit.

We can assume Cena has the cardio to keep up

We don't have to assume, we've seen him do it on multiple occasions. Why do you keep trying to cast doubt on that which has already been proven?

There is more evidence that Funk wrestled these longer matches frequently.

Just like there is more evidence that Funk wrestled much slower matches in which long periods of time were spent laying on the mat or standing outside the ring.

A fact bears more weight than a high probability.

It's a greater probability that a finely conditioned athlete in today's world can work longer, faster and harder than a man who got drunk every night in the 70s. If we're going to play the "assume" game, only an idiot would assume that physical conditioning, whether it be weights or cardio, would be equal in the 70s or 80s to what it is today.

If we're going to assume physical conditioning, then we can safely assume modern diets and training will easily trump that of 30-40 years ago.

Funk is hard to put down & better men than Cena

Just no. In both real life and kayfabe, Cena is one of the greatest ever. Unless you have proof that a prime Hogan, prime Austin or prime Rock couldn't put Funk down (which you don't) you have no basis to say "better men than Cena".

Cena is better, Cena is in better shape, Cena wins.

 

[enviousdominous]

[YOUTUBE]K626gMvu2ds[/YOUTUBE]

No matter how hard you try, you can't stop him now
No matter how hard you try, you can't stop him now

He's the renegade of his time and age
The time is now for renegades
Renegade of his time and age
The time is now for a renegade

Since the territorial ages and the days of NWA
Right down through his Middle Ages
The wrestling world kept going through changes
And then there came the game, and times continued to change
Nothing stayed the same, but there was always renegades
Like New Jack, Harley Race
CM Punk, Jake the Snake
They were renegades, of their time and age
The mighty renegades

They're the renegades of Funk
They're the renegades of Funk
They're the renegades of Funk
They're the renegades of Funk

From a different organization many many territories away
They are the force of another creation, a pro-wrestling revelation
And we're on this sadistic mission to make the others listen
And slam from land to land startin' loud infectious chants like
Funk U Nation

Revelations
Destroy Cenation
Destroy Cenation
Destroy Cenation
Destroy Cenation
Destroy Cenation
Destroy Cenation

Now renegades are the people with their own philosophies
They change pro-wrestling history, for everyday people like you and me
They're the renegades of the people, with our own philosophies
They change the course of history, for everyday people like you and me

C'mon
They're the renegades of Funk
They're the renegades of Funk
They're the renegades of Funk
They're the renegades of Funk

He's poppin', sockin', chopin' stompin' the side of hip-hop
Because where he's goin' there ain't no stoppin'
He's poppin', sockin', chopin' stompin' a side of hip-hop
Because where he's goin' there ain't no stoppin'
Poppin', sockin', chopin' stompin' a side of hip-hop
'Cause we're poppin', sockin', chopin' stompin' a side of hip-hop
Poppin', sockin', chopin' stompin' a side of hip-hop

He's the renegade named Funk
He's the renegade named Funk
He's the renegade named Funk
He's the renegade named Funk

We're followers of the Funk, and not of empty popping
We're blessed with the force and the sight of real violence
With the strength for the rumble, the hard hitting knuckles
'Cause every time he pops you in the face you get wrecked

There was a time when pro-wrestlers
Were something called the gold dust three
People would gather from all around
To get down with the big crowds
You had to be a renegade those days
To beat these men at their own game

Say dam Cena (dam Cena)
Say dam Cena (dam Cena)
Say move Cena (move Cena)
Say lose Cena (lose Cena)
Say dance Cena (dance Cena)
Say prance Cena (prance Cena)
Now move Cena (move Cena)
Now lose Cena (lose Cena)

A weh weh weh weh woer
We're the renegades of Funk
We're the renegades of Funk

A weh weh weh weh woer
We're the renegades of Funk
We're the renegades of Funk

A weh weh weh weh woer
We're the renegades of Funk
We're the renegades of Funk

A weh weh weh weh woer
We're the renegades for Funk
We're the renegades for Funk Funk Funk Funk Funk

Vote Terry Funk

 

[Bernkastel]

I think Ech is broken.


C'mon man, laying it on a bit thick dont you think? The SuperCena argument because you are sore over a loss last round is beneath you.

Nope. I am not being any less ridiculous than Funk supporters last round. Thesz was better than Funk in every way and had a logical way to win the match and yet the masses were fooled into voting for Funk because he was this hardcore unbeatable motherfucker. Cena is also better than Funk in every way and also has a logical way to beat Funk in an Iron Man match, and scrolling through the thread I'm still seeing the same ridiculous arguments for Funk that I saw last round.

Are any of the Cena supporters going to put up a logical reason why he would win

Cena wins because he's the better pro wrestler and the match stip doesn't favor Funk at all. Perhaps if this was one of those hardcore death matches Funk might have an advantage.

I'm going to flip the main argument for Funk on its side. It has been argued by many that because Funk has gone 60 more times, that gives him the advantage. Unfortunately, nobody has considered what going 60 meant back then compared to now.

Back in the day, going 60 meant plenty of resting. Modern fans would hate those matches due to lack of action. More is expected of talent today, so Funk doing what he did then today would be booed mercilessly.

While I'm not arguing that going 60 is ever easy, it's certainly easier when less is expected of you. With that in mind, Cena wrestles to the standard of what today's wrestler must live up to. Thus, in longer matches, he takes less rests and provides more action and STILL maintains his stamina. It is in these matches that people have marveled most at Cena, most notably in the HBK match where HBK, a noted distance goer, was looking winded at about 40 minutes while Cena looked like he just started.

Terry Funk couldn't keep up with Cena because he never had to face a guy who would push him through all 60 minutes like Cena. Heck, I'd give a better chance to Dory Funk in an Iron Man match against Cena and he'd still lose. The match stipulation actually favors Cena, as does being the bigger star. This is Cena's match.

There's no normalization in this argument at all. I assumed this would have been one of the primary arguments again Thesz if he had won, and Thesz adapted his style over the years to what the audiences wanted to see. In the 30's wrestlers weren't doing high angle crossbody's, piledrivers, powerbombs, hurricanrana's, dropkicks, or anything coming off the top rope. But in the 50's and 60's everyone did. You see a huge difference in Thesz's wrestling style over the decades because he adapted to what the audience wanted to see at the time. If fans in the 50's and 60's wanted to see what wrestlers do in the ring in 2016, then Thesz would have done this. So it's not right to use this argument against Thesz or Terry Funk. Terry delivered exactly what the audience wanted to see from him. Maybe not as well as Cena delivers for the fans now, but this is not a good pro Cena argument.

 

[nightmare]

Same ridiculous arguments? You over exaggerated the use of weapons last round when I dont remember anyone really saying anything about Funk using deathmatch tactics besides you & now you say people are doing the same when they are not basing their arguments off of weapons at all?

Are you even reading this years thread, or just being intentionally ignorant?

 

[nightmare]

If we're going to play the "assume" game, only an idiot would assume that physical conditioning, whether it be weights or cardio, would be equal in the 70s or 80s to what it is today.

Maybe it is just my eyes burning from that arrogant douche cologne you wear, but did you just imply that weights are somehow easier to lift now than they were 30 years ago?

Here I go assuming again, but I am pretty sure gravity works the same regardless of decade. The medical & scientific advances in our recent time may have helped our understanding & ability to implement exercise regimens more effectively, but the end results are the same. Unless guys like Warrior, Savage, Hogan, Sammartino, etc are somehow less athletic than guys now.


Funk isnt a musclehead gym rat like the above, but he has what it takes to get the job done here.

 

[JJYanks121]

Maybe it is just my eyes burning from that arrogant douche cologne you wear, but did you just imply that weights are somehow easier to lift now than they were 30 years ago?

Here I go assuming again, but I am pretty sure gravity works the same regardless of decade. The medical & scientific advances in our recent time may have helped our understanding & ability to implement exercise regimens more effectively, but the end results are the same. Unless guys like Warrior, Savage, Hogan, Sammartino, etc are somehow less athletic than guys now.


Funk isnt a musclehead gym rat like the above, but he has what it takes to get the job done here.

I think you missed the point. The 80's starts that era of getting really big for the aesthetic. The 70's, where the Funk that wrestled 60 minutes is from, was more for guys of all looks that didn't treat the gym as a daily necessity. Funk certainly didn't. So yeah, he went 60 minutes, but not in the same way a wrestler today would need to, and he certainly wouldn't know how to train in the same way a wrestler of today trains. It's a different ballgame, and your'e asking Funk to not only keep up with, but keep down the best of the generation. It wouldn't happen. He couldn't even do that in his own generation.

 

[nightmare]

Keeping John down isnt an issue, he has short bursts of offense followed by longer periods of getting beat on. I think Coco already pointed out his affection for the ground & Funk will be taking it to him rather than just swinging weapons or waiting for John to "hulk up" for his 5 move vanilla train.


I get the visual aesthetic point, but regardless of size the smaller guys could also go long as well when needed. Plus there are more muscular guys from earlier back who were also accustomed to going the distance.


My point is that if you are constantly wrestling longer matches, common sense says you are better equipped to face the same condition as opposed to someone who does so less frequently. This type of match is just another day at the office for guys of the older generations & the newer crew may be fit, but some extra preparation would be needed beforehand. That should not be something hard to understand. If you run a 5k against others who participate in them more often, you would be less equipped to do so, without some extra prep. I am sure Cena would have the week to train & we can assume he would, but this stance some of you are taking seems like ignoring the participants history with the stipulation a bit. If Orton gave him trouble, Funk would and then some.

 

[Slyfox696]

Maybe it is just my eyes burning from that arrogant douche cologne you wear

If I marketed a Slyfox696 cologne, I very much doubt you would be able to afford it.

but did you just imply that weights are somehow easier to lift now than they were 30 years ago?

No, I directly said physical training and conditioning are much better now than they were 30-40 years ago. I mean, for goodness sake, my exact words were "only an idiot would assume that physical conditioning would be equal in the 70s or 80s". Do you want to dispute that?

Here I go assuming again

It hasn't worked for you yet, I don't know why you keep trying it.

but I am pretty sure gravity works the same regardless of decade.

So does photosynthesis, but since we're not talking about either, I'm pretty certain you're just sounding ridiculous right now.

The medical & scientific advances in our recent time may have helped our understanding & ability to implement exercise regimens more effectively

So you agree with what I said. Great. So now you understand why your argument that Funk would be better conditioned for this match, which is why you claimed he would win, is absolutely laughable.

Unless guys like Warrior, Savage, Hogan, Sammartino, etc are somehow less athletic than guys now.

They didn't have nearly the access to the modern technology and understanding of conditioning that we have today. That's why half of the guys you mentioned are dead and why Sammartino's physique would never make it in today's wrestling.

John Cena is built like a wall and can go 60 minutes. The idea that Funk is somehow better conditioned, despite his only NWA world championship coming in 1975, is absolutely ridiculous.

Funk isnt a musclehead gym rat like the above, but he has what it takes to get the job done here.

Based on what? The only argument I've really seen you put forth is the conditioning argument and that is utterly absurd.

Cena takes this easily...and judging by the current votes, he is.