Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal should have some implications.

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by ShinChan, Apr 16, 2017.

  1. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    So, Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal started taking place in 2014 at Wrestlemania 30. Since then we've had four winners namely Cesaro, Big Show, Baron Corbin & Mojo Rawley.

    The problem about this match is that it has no implications whatsoever except a trophy. The winner doesn't gain anything by winning the match. You could take any case, be it Cesaro or Baron Corbin.

    So, I think that the winner should get at least a midcard title shot. Either InterContinental Championship or United States Championship. That would help to care more about this match as it will become more of a Royal Rumble for midcard titles. As of now, it's just a filler match.
     
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  2. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

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    I have to agree there should be something more at the end of the ATGBM than what there is. The winners so far have really had no momentum coming out of it. A title shot at the US or IC somewhere down the road would make it more appealing, as most of the competitors end up going for those titles anyway.

    The ATGBM is unfortunately just seen as a way for the mid card talent or wrestler's that don't have a match to get into the ring at Mania. When you consider the Rumble and MITB gives the winner a shot at the main titles, sure give the winner of the AGTBM at shot at the midcard titles, then viewers might be more into it than they are.
     
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  3. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    While i do agree that you should have something more attach to the battle royal, at the same time, i don'T think that the winners as of now got no momentum out of it. Cesaro won the first one and for a couple of months the guy got a pretty descent push until the fans stop caring about his affiliation with Heyman and put a sudden stop on his push because it didn't work. But he had some momentum for a while.

    Big show was pretty much just a way to thank him for being in the company for so long and at one point, you had to have big show win it.

    Corbin i think got a lot of momentum out of winning this, he want from a glorify jobber on NXT to a guy challenging for the ic title within a year and is pretty much set to be in the main event picture of smackdown now, so to say that he didn't gain something from this is just dumb.

    Mojo, will just have to wait and see what's going to happen with him, if i have to guess, i wouldn'T be surprise that when zack ryder comes back from injury, they just give up on mojo single push and just put him back in a tag team with zack. I could even see some sort of tag team title run for him before the end of the year.

    Personally, i think that WWE is using this battle royal like they did back in the days with the king of the ring tournament. the give the trophy to the guy that they want to do something with over the next year. If it fail then it fail but at less they try to do something. Sometimes they will get a cesaro and it will fail miserably and sometime they will get lucky like they did with corbin and it will just click.
     
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  4. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    Ummm... He didn't get a decent push. It didn't work because he was hot as a babyface and was turned heel, thus completely derailing him. He was losing to the likes of Rob Van Dam and Sheamus after this ATGMBR victory.
    I respect Big Show's longevity in WWE. But I would've preferred a win for Damien Mizdow/Sandow.
    I don't think that he got any advantage from it. He was feuding with Dolph Ziggler of all people for the next 2-3 months. Also, he was nowhere near a glorified jobber in NXT. He started getting credible on main roster since December after WWE Championship match. Prior to that, he was feuding with Kalisto and Jack Swagger. So, he did gain nothing from ATGMBR regardless of you referring it as dumb.
    Let's see what Mojo does.
    Again, the motive of this thread was to ask for something valuable for the winner. None of the winners got anything except the trophy. Just making it a No. 1 contender match for either midcard title is all I'm asking for.
     
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  5. @smarkmouth

    @smarkmouth Friendly Neighborhood

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    The whole battle royal is a flawed concept from the get-go. At most, it's a 10 minute match where everyone who's not on the main card is just shoed in. Worse yet, WWE has failed to build it in a way where we care about anyone getting a win going into the match. We just get some paint-by-numbers segments, usually involving Big Show clearing the ring of several people and we call it a "build-up".

    Stakes might add a bit of intrigue, but it's still a transparent excuse to get everyone on the card. If we go with the example of giving the winner of the match a mid-card championship match, well, that's still pretty weak. You have to figure that said mid-card champ is already building his blow-off match in their own feud. The champ doesn't have eyes on the battle royal, why should we? Can't really compare it to the Royal Rumble, either, because the championship defense at Rumble is a filler defense 3 out of 4 times. That shouldn't be the case for the mid-card title at the show-of-shows.

    If anything, I think the Andre Royal is best reimagined as a spectacle. I'd impose a weight OR height minimum. Competitors must weigh a minimum 300lbs, or be at least 7' tall. I think there's been a resurgence of appreciation for what Big Men bring to the table, but throwing in a mass of humanity in the Royal would be fun to watch.

    I don't think you'll ever get anyone to care about the match, but you might be able to turn it into a spectacle.
     
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  6. The Perfect Max

    The Perfect Max I Am Jericho

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    I think the problem with the entire concept is how the aftermath of the first one went down. When Hogan announced the first one for WrestleMania 30, I did think it was a cool idea. There was a decent amount of mid-card to upper-card stars in the match (Big Show, Sheamus, Alberto Del Rio, Kofi Kingston etc.). It was showcased, and Cesaro got a major win with the way he threw Big Show out. But what happens next? Nothing. Well, they tried. But pairing him with Paul Heyman, while a pipedream because Heyman is God and Cesaro was majorly popular, couldn't work when Cesaro is a face and not a heel like Heyman and his big client who had literally just broken the streak THE NIGHT BEFORE. It doesn't work.

    My point is, you have to set a precedent. Had the winner of the first Money in the Bank ladder match cashed in and lost, what would have been of the concept? Probably nothing. But they executed it perfectly with Edge. The following year, Rob Van Dam had a different scenario, but it worked. From there, it was a sold concept.

    The battle royal, on the other hand, got nothing. Cesaro's push fell apart, which meant that we were given no reminder of how he not only won that match, but how it had helped him get to wherever they intended that push to go. Then the following year, it's a pre-show match with a very small pool of contenders. If the precedent had been set with the first couple of battle royals, then we as fans, and the WWE creative, would understand the significance of any star winning future battle royals. It's like Money in the Bank at this point - we've had a couple of dud winners and failed cash-ins, but the concept works perfectly fine anyway.

    For me, a future title shot, or whatever it is, would be beneficial in making the match mean something for sure. But it should never have gotten to this point in the first place.

    Then again, what should we all expect? Other than the Royal Rumble, battle royals nowadays mean absolutely nothing.
     
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  7. Dagger Dias

    Dagger Dias Natural 20
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    Yeah from day one it should have had some sort of stipulation where the winner actually gets something. Cesaro winning the first one was memorable since everyone wanted to see what would happen. What did we get out of it? A failed alliance angle with Heyman. What I remember more than anything else from that first Andre Battle Royal aftermath was Jack Swagger destroying that stupid trophy. The second one was even worse, and arguably the worst of all. They stuck Sandow and Miz in there on the pre-show for this useless battle royal when they had a feud deserving of an actual match, only for Big Show to win. I get that Big Show "needed" to win this at some point, but why rob Sandow of a Wrestlemania moment for that? They did it right with Corbin, to an extent. Having him debut there and win was cool. Still, it would have helped if he actually got SOMETHING out of the win beyond "Hey, I debuted in the Andre Battle Royal and won". So what!? Don't even get me started on Mojo from this year.

    This battle royal needs to mean something. They could have made it into something cool but now it's literally turned into the spot on the card where all the guys they have NOTHING for end up. There is nothing special about it. Have the guy who wins get their choice of an Intercontinental or United States Championship shot. It could have given Mojo a cool storyline this year due to the Superstar Shakeup he could have moved to Raw to feud with Ambrose, for example. Or they could award the winner with a midcard title shot at Summerslam. Take all summer to build the guy up. That may be a bit much but it's better than a pointless trophy that means little more than the Bragging Rights trophy did. Make the fans care or else they won't. The concept is still new enough that it could be salvaged next year if they add something more to it. If they don't then it will go on to become the match where people go to the fridge for a snack because if the WWE doesn't care about it, then why should any of the fans?
     
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  8. BestSportsEntertainer

    BestSportsEntertainer I Don't Need No User Title

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    It's only there to get everyone on the card. That's the entire problem.

    So you could give it a stipulation, but it wouldn't change that fact.
     
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  9. Jack-Hammer

    Jack-Hammer YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
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    Yeah, I'm in agreement that here should be some real implications for the winner of the battle royal aside from getting their name stuck on the side of a trophy that's topped by a little statue of Andre. A title shot of some sort somewhere down the line is a logical prize and I think it'd make the overall anticipation of the battle royal itself go to a higher level.

    The thing about the battle royal, however, is that Vince is in a spot where he'll be bitched about no matter what. Before the creation of the battle royal, you had some fans and more than a few dirt sheet writers complaining about how hard working lower and mid-card guys didn't get a share of the WrestleMania payout; but now, you have fans and those same writers complaining about the absurd length the show is because WWE tries to fit almost everyone on the main roster onto the show.

    I wouldn't mind them shaking things up a bit. For instance, I had the thought of having two separate, 10 man battle royals with the winners facing off against each other in a match on the main WrestleMania card to determine the overall winner of the battle royal and gets a shot at either the CW, IC or US title at some point.
     
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  10. Navi

    Navi With the safety off!!

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    I'm glad we agree that there should be something to winning it, but I disagree with the second part of your statement. Cesaro was paired with Heyman right away, the same guy who was managing Lesnar, the guy who broke the Undertaker's streak. Heyman focused more on the streak being broken than he ever did on Cesaro. It was a total mistake to pair the two of them to begin with, Cesaro didn't need a manager. The push didn't work because the WWE screwed it up completely, that can't be blamed on Cesaro alone. Whatever Cesaro gained from winning the Battle Royal was lost.

    And what momentum did Big Show get from winning? Short answer, none. He won it for his loyalty which was another wasted opportunity to put someone over. Sandow should have eliminated Miz to set up his push, but yea no. Sandow was gone soon after and Big Show is a part timer now.

    Corbin was a pretty big deal in NXT that's why he was moved up so quickly. I still think he was a little green to be honest, but he ended up in a program with Ziggler and since the brand split has done pretty well for himself. The WWE gave him the opportunity and he took it. I used to think he was boring but now quite like him. I don't see any push from winning the Battle Royal he did it on his own.

    The night Ryder was injured hadn't they just won the number one contender's spot, so I'm sure they will be in hunt. Moving him over to RAW was a huge mistake though, he'll get lost in the shuffle.

    No they are using it to get everyone on the card for the show, sort of a thank you for all the hard work over the year. Cesaro shouldn't have failed, Corbin did okay on his own, Big Show well he's Big Show, Rawley remains to be seen.

    I do like JH's idea for having two Battle Royal's with the winners on the card later that night and the winner does get a guaranteed shot at the IC or US title.
     
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  11. Kodo Sawaki

    Kodo Sawaki Championship Contender

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    People expect too much from it. Its just filler match that is mostly not even on the main card. Its not Royal Rumble, its not MiTB, its just filler for people who have nothing to do. Kinda like participation trophy at science fair.
     
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  12. Radical

    Radical Championship Contender

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    The reality is this match was made to be a filler match. It was made so that any wrestler on the roster that didn't have a feud or a bigger match planned could still be a part of the biggest show of the year.

    WWE don't want the burden of giving a distinct implication to the winner of the match because I'm sure they feel it ties their hands too much to have to make a feud happen out of a filler match on the card.

    BUT I do think they could have planned the progression of events around the match better since the start.

    I think Big Show winning the FIRST Battle Royal would have been better as a honor to Big Show's service to WWE AND would make for a bigger impact NEXT YEAR when Cesaro eliminates the first winner in grand and emphatic fashion. I think that would have set the winners off on a better path.

    Otherwise, I think it is fine to just use the Battle Royal as basically an experiment to see if fans could care more about a certain talent. If it works, great, if not, no big deal.
     
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  13. THTRobtaylor

    THTRobtaylor Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist

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    There are two issues...

    One, they already HAVE a much harder battle royale with something riding on it... The Royal Rumble. If they give a title shot for the World title to the winner, it devalues the much more "on paper" difficult Rumble match. If they go with a "mid card title" shot then it pigeon holes whoever wins it as a mid card guy.

    The second is even now they're putting it on the pre-show, not the main show. If there are consequences, they have to commit to it being on the main segment of the Wrestlemania show...and they seem reluctant to do it, toploading the card with the "bigger names" and giving the others the slot on he pre-show.

    Now - what I think would be interesting IF they were going to have stips for it, and how they have done things this year - Whoever wins gets to PICK their brand at the Shakeup/Draft. That alone is a great angle for someone, especially if they don't choose for a period of time after Mania and become "the hottest free agent".

    Storylines can be around GM's "wooing" them over or trying to convince them to stay... maybe title shots could then be offered as part of that if they wanted to use it to rocket launch someone.

    It's then like MITB but without the guaranteed title match... at any point in the following 3 months (rule is they have to choose by end of June) then they can declare their side... Imagine Brock seems on course for retaining and the winner of the Andre was Bray Wyatt - he could announce his staying by costing Brock the title... likewise a new arrival from Smackdown...

    If you're going to do any kind of stip - this is the only one that really works.
     
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  14. Vanilla Midget

    Vanilla Midget Registered Suplex Offender

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    It's fine as it is. Most people want it to be the new King of the Ring or something along those lines, whereas it's really just meant to give the jobbers and everyone left off the card something to do at Mania.

    The Andre Battle having to mean something pigeonholes creative. Every year they have to give out that trophy and then push someone that they might not have really had plans to push. This is a big part of the reason why they stopped KOTR being annual in the first place.

    Giving out the Andre trophy annually is really more of a formalization of the WrestleMania battle royal that has been happening for years any way. It was never meant to be anything other than that, and a way to honour the Giant.

    Cesaro one, most want Cesaro to succeed because he's crazy good at wrestling, WWE doesn't see the charisma in him, so losing streak.

    Big Show had to win it as the only other giant, but he's on the tail end of his career, so he's fed to Reigns.

    Great way to debut Corbin, but it's his first year and being pushed to the top too fast rarely works. Sheamus' years of lukewarm reaction are proof, Brock is the exception.

    Fastforward to Mojo, who only won for the mainstream attention that would come with Gronk interfering at Mania. That's it, Rawley might get a lower card push for a while, but he'll be back doing Hype Bros before the end of the year.

    Do we really want Mojo vs KO right now? Did we want Corbin going immediately into a midcard title feud and risking the throat shove effect? We all wanted Cesaro to win, but that has to be the exception.

    As cool as it would be to have the Andre Battle Royal really matter, it would be a bigger mess and find itself dropped within a few years. As it is, it's just some flavour dressing of formalization on top of an existing process.

    But yeah, in its current incarnation it's fairly pointless. Making the Andre win a title shot of some kind requires top talent to be put into the match, whereas they can be used in better ways outside of it and get title shots anyway.
     
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  15. Spencesc11

    Spencesc11 Getting Noticed By Management

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    I think I would have the winner get a US Title Match at Wrestlemania later that night. This would bring more prestige to the match and also give the winner a push that could start even at Mania itself!!!
     
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  16. ShinChan

    ShinChan Gone. For. Good.

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    But that would lead to a title match without any feud or something. What I thought was that have the winner of Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal get a midcard title shot. Be it InterContinental or United States Championship. Then build a match between the challenger and champion for the upcoming PPV.

    Mojo looks good as of now. I just read him getting win over Dolph Ziggler at a live event. Let's see what lies in future for him.
     
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  17. justinept

    justinept Championship Contender

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    Look, I get it. You see the name Andre The Giant, and you think the match should be more than it is. But the reality is that they're using Andre's name to make the match seem more important than it's actually intended to be. I'm guessing if it were just the "Wrestlemania Battle Royal" or the "Wrestlemania pre-show Battle Royal," there'd be no one thinking a stipulation was necessary.

    But because it's named after a legendary figure, suddenly it needs to be more than it is? I don't think so... It is what it is. I match that rewards the undercard guys like Fandango and R-Truth, allowing them a chance to perform at Wrestlemania. It's a match that allows some of the midcard guys like Zayn and Braun to perform at Wrestlemania without the company having to book an additional 5 matches to a card that already runs way too long.

    That's all it really needs to be. Not every match needs a stipulation. Not every moment needs to lead to a bigger moment. It is OK for a match to be booked for no other reason than because of how it benefits the specific card. This match perfectly accomplishes its main objectives and really doesn't need to be changed.
     
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  18. @smarkmouth

    @smarkmouth Friendly Neighborhood

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    Not necessarily. An immediate challenger gives the champ a reason to have eyes on the match. No reason he can't rub shoulders with a handful of would-be challengers in the weeks building up to WrestleMania. It won't be the hottest program going into Mania, but it's something.

    I like the idea, but not as a yearly stipulation. There should be a reason for the champ defending their title against the winner later that night. Top of my head, say if Baron was IC champ heading into 'Mania. Having won the past years Andre-Royal, it would make sense for him to plant his feet and defend his title against the winner in the same evening.
     
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