An Underdiscussed Topic: Men Raped By Women?

[Jack-Hammer]

Earlier this week, I caught an old episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit in which the person who was the victim of a sexual assault was a male stripper claiming to have been forcibly raped by three women he was entertaining at a bachelorette party. I remember seeing this episode years ago for the first time and it was really the first time I'd been exposed to the thought of women raping men. Because of this guy's job as an exotic dancer and the fact that he had something of a dubious reputation in that he was also a struggling actor who sometimes slept his way to roles, had himself a Sugar Mama at one time, etc. it lead to doubts about the authenticity of his claim. Also, there's the societal view that it's just not physically possible for a man to be raped by a woman.

However, a little while ago, I ran across this story on CNN.com and it reminded me of this Law & Order: SVU episode. http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/living/chris-brown-female-on-male-rape/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Initially, the article tells the story of a man named James Landrith and an incident that took place in 1990 when he was 19 years old. He'd been out partying at a nightclub and drinking heavily and was given a ride home by a pregnant woman, a woman who was a friend of a friend. Landrith remembers that he felt very woozy and disoriented, he also says he remembers a suggestion from the woman in which they could just stop at a hotel so he could sleep it off. He goes onto state that he remembers lying down in the bed with his pants on because he felt uncomfortable taking them off in front of this woman. After all, he didn't know her, only that they shared a mutual friend. He woke up later, according to him, saying that the woman was straddling him but didn't recall saying yes to her advances. The next morning, he awoke to the woman forcing herself on him again. Now I can't say for sure, but I'm guessing that he'd slept off a lot of the alcoholic stupor he was in. The way the article is written gives me that impression, though I might be wrong. Landrith says that she forced herself on him again and told him that if he struggled against her, he could wind up hurting the baby he was carrying.

Since that time, Landrith, who happens to be a former marine, has spoken out on behalf of sexual assault victims, male or female, but especially to men who claim to have been raped by women.

Much of the rest of the article contains statistics on the subject, such as 1 in 5 women and 1 in 71 men in the US report being raped. Historically, rape has been a heavily underreported crime, for both men & women but especially among men, and most law enforcement agencies believe the actual numbers to be significantly higher.

The article also reveals a bit of a story that I personally hadn't heard about involving controversial R&B/Hip Hop artist Chris Brown. Brown's been a huge success in the music industry having won 3 American Music Awards, 5 Billboard Music Awards, 12 Grammy Award nominations with 1 win, and some 30 Top 10 & #1 singles on various Billboard charts. He's probably best known for beating the crap out of Rihanna. The article mentioned that, in a recent interview, Chris Brown reveals that he lost his virginity at the age of 8 to a 14 year old girl. In the interview, while grinning & laughing a little, he stated "Yeah, really. Uh-huh. It's different in the country." This was something I hadn't heard and it reminded me of just how shallow & opportunistic that so called journalists in the entertainment industry are. After all, where's the massive press coverage about this? They're all over the place covering Miley Cyrus when she Tweets that she enjoys smoking weed or Lindsay Lohan's frequent screw ups. And yes, just in case people are wondering, it's possible for people that young to physically engage in sex. Puberty can hit extremely early. That's why there are some 10 year old girls out there who can pass for 16 year olds because they're over 5 feet tall with natural C cups.

In the case of men, the idea of them being raped by women has been repeatedly brushed off by society due to roles in which societies throughout the world have placed upon gender. In the case of men, we're "supposed" to be the ones who instigate sexual encounters. We're "supposed" to be the ones who seek out sexual conquest and make sexual advances rather than trying to resist them. That's partially why so many people don't see it as so much of a big deal when female teachers get it on with their 14 year old male students. It's a fairly common theme in pornographic films in which the "male student" is seduced by or seduces the "hot teacher". In such cases, another prevailing notion in society is that the boys aren't hurt physically, so they weren't raped. The boys themselves brush it off at the time by acting all macho. After all, they made it with an older woman, so they must be studs right?

There's also the prevailing notions some people have, and this is something that's still applied even to women, is that rape can't occur if a person is aroused and even experiences orgasm. Anatomy 101 teaches that the sexual arousal of a man is pretty damn obvious, much more so just based on sight than it is for a woman. So if someone is being assaulted but their bodies respond to the "stimulation", for lack of a better term, then some feel that means the victim is a consenting and willing participant. The problem with that notion is that they don't take into account that such reactions are completely natural. After all, remember, when someone is raped, they don't always have the shit kicked out of them. Rape happens when sexual activities take place even after you've told the person no. After all, the anti-rape slogan is no means no. That's what women have been told for decades, so do men deserve less? I saw another episode of Law & Order: SVU in which a woman was drugging wealthy celebrities in order to collect their semen for the purposes of selling the semen to fertility clinics or to others who liked the notion of having the biological father of their babies be famous. After they were drugged, she essentially put what amounted to a high tech cattle prod up the men's rectums, turned it on, electrocuted them and it resulted in spontaneous orgasm. She collected the semen, left and the victims woke up with a major headache but was none the wiser as to actually what happened. I came to find out later that this actually had some legit medical credentials as it can be used on men who are paralyzed in order to collect semen so their wives or girlfriends can undergo artificial insemination.

The concept of men genuinely being victims of sexual assault by women is gaining ground. The article mentions that the FBI has updated the definition of rape in their Uniform Crime Report. The current definition reads, "The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim." The prior definition, which hadn't been changed or updated since the late 1920s, stated that rape was "the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will."

At any rate, I thought this was an interesting topic. It's one that you don't see talked about a whole helluva lot. With society going through a number of changes, including the redefining of age old societal concepts of equality and sexuality, it's a topic that needs more open discussion.

 

[Mustang Sally]

He woke up later, according to him, saying that the woman was straddling him but didn't recall saying yes to her advances. The next morning, he awoke to the woman forcing herself on him again.

In the example cited, the woman was pregnant. But what if she wasn't, yet became pregnant as a result of this "encounter?" What does the guy do then?

Unless the woman admits the details, who's going to believe him when he claims he didn't consent? How is a judge going to rule when she declares him the father of the child (which he is) and demands child support? It wasn't his fault, yet she may win the verdict.

Hopefully, that the law is now taking into account the concept of female rape will provide allowances for this type of occurrence. But if the ruling doesn't go his way, the poor guy will at least know how a woman feels when sex is forced on her and winds up in a family way. What we usually hear of is the man initiating the deal and calling it consensual, with the woman charging rape.....and the courts determining the outcome, often incorrectly.

Life often isn't fair.....and it works both ways.

 

[LSN80]

I know the episode of SVU to which you're referring, as the male dancer, who was also a male prostitute(although that isn't the term they used), was either played by Mark-Paul Gosselear(Zach Morris on Saved By the Bell) or Eddie Cahill(Flack, the detective on CSI: NY.)If I recall correctly, he kept lying to Benson and Stabler because he didn't want his mother to know what he did for a living, so rather, he was willing to let the woman who sexually assaulted him go.

The Landrith story, which I recall reading about some five years ago impressed on me the great difficulty he had in getting people to believe him. Why, because he was greeted by, as a former Marine, with things such as:

'Please....You just don't want to admit you slept with some pregnant chick.'

'Id love for that to happen to me. Why are you complaining that some woman just threw herself at you?'

If a man isn't willing, a woman can't rape him.

For me, the parts of the quotes I put in Italics are the very reasons why I agree that female rape on men is an under-discussed topic. In the first scenario, the man is supposedly shamed because he slept with a pregnant woman, because he "slept with" someone else's girl, and while she was pregnant. Or, that he has some kind of perversion as he slept with a single, pregnant chick. This would come from mostly men, but some women as well.

In the second scenario, it almost sounds like doubt as to what really happened. Because people don't want to believe that a woman can rape, they're assuming the man is making it up, or his memory is fuzzy due to the alcohol. To those people, he consented, and simply can't recall, so he may believe it's rape. This would likely come from similar amounts of men and women alike.

The third would simply be some fallacy believed by mostly women, in regards to men. After all, how is he going to get inside her if his dick isn't hard? It comes from a belief that women are smaller, and any man, when drunk enough, will bang any woman. Which is funny, because if a man tried to say that a female if drunk enough will always consent, it wouldnt be pretty, for them. Similarly, if a man would say that it's not rape if the woman "got wet", they'ld be criticized from here to high heaven by women's right's groups. Unfortunately, its the misinformed on both sides that don't consider that our sexual organs aren't always completely under our control, and thus, even the unwilling can get hard or wet.

Further, it's problematic to me due to the large gap between men and women who've been raped. Unfortunately for women, statistics taken this year show that 21% of women in the U.S. will be raped, and report it. I know I dated two women myself who were raped, and their attackers were in jail when I knew them. Fortunately for women, due to the high rate of sexual assault, there are plenty of support groups for them? Males? In the same statistics taken on women this year, they were taken by men as well. Less than 2% of men will be raped, or, at least, admit to it. Women who are raped often feel alone, so how much more would the man feel so, especially if ostracized by people with various beliefs as to them either making it up or forgetting they consented?

After all, a big, strong man, especially a Marine, couldn't possibly be raped by a woman, especially one who's pregnant. He was just too drunk to remember what really happened. Personally, while I've done therapy with at least 20 women who've been raped, no one in my office(5 of us) has ever had a client who was both male and raped, by either gender.

Rape happens when sexual activities take place even after you've told the person no. After all, the anti-rape slogan is no means no.

Id argue this further, and say that "lack of a yes" means no. Because, in some situations, a man or a female could be too drunk, and even passed out. In those cases, they sure as heck aren't giving consent, but they're not saying 'no', either. But because 'no means no' is smaller and can be fit on T-shirts and keychains, we don't get the full concept, which sadly, often leads to the beliefs expressed that I posted earlier which are flat-out fallacies regarding rape.

The concept of men genuinely being victims of sexual assault by women is gaining ground. The article mentions that the FBI has updated the definition of rape in their Uniform Crime Report. The current definition reads, "The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."

Which is the correct way of looking at rape. Rape is lack of consent, not just a failure to say no. I like the updated definition as well, because it doesn't allow for it to be excused in any way as a "mistake." It's a black and white issue, and to see it being moved further in that direction is a positive.

I wonder if the statistics noted over the past few years, that almost 2% of adult American males report rape, has lead to this. Because while the 2% pales in comparison to 21% for women, it's still about 120,000 a year. If a new disease was discovered, and was affecting 120,000 people in the population, let alone one gender, how much attention would be brought to it?

All of us know the approximate answer, and I hope it will become more and more similar here. The past definition doesn't work, so adding the new one is a start. And hopefully, more James Landrith's will come forward, telling their stories. And then, the attention that has been so rightfully growing in women's rape cases will do the same in males.

 

[Slash-LN]

I don't really like the "men will sleep with anyone when they're drunk" argument that some people try to tie into things or use as an accusation.

I remember seeing a case several years ago of a college kid who was accused of raping a girl because she said she didn't remember what happened. Basically she woke up in his bed the next morning. He had said she consented but it was ultimately ruled that he took advantage of her intoxication so she wasn't of sound mind at the time to consent.

If it works that way for females it should work that way for males. Both sexes judgement is going to be impaired by substance use.

Even in society it's seen as kind of a joke. There's an episode of The Simpsons where Marge intimidates Homer into having sex. (She had been working out and developed huge muscles.) I think it happened in an episode of Family Guy with Lois and Peter too. If it had happened the other way around people would have been mad at the shows.

I think this also goes along with males being physically assaulted by their female counterparts. There was a guy that lived in the neighborhood I lived in that would get beaten by his wife and people would ridicule him for it. I was a kid at the time like 13 or 14 and it was the first time I had ever seen anything like that. Even though he was the victim in the situation he was mocked by people.

I have never come across any males that have been sexually assaulted by females that I'm aware of. I have 3 female friends that were all raped. I was in rehab with two guys that were sexually assaulted by men in their families. One it was during his childhood and one was as a teenager. It's something that was hard for both of them to talk about and in both cases their families called them liars so no charges were ever filed.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

To me, rape inherently involves a rapist penetrating a rape victim. Women CAN rape men, but for me to consider it rape it would have to involve a woman putting a phallic object in a man's...well, you know what I'm getting at.

To be as blunt as possible, I think this story is flat-out bullshit. I have had unwanted sexual advances from a woman before, and I know for a fact that men that have been in a similar situation would tell you that your junk pulls a turtle on you when this happens. For me to believe that this man was raped, there would have to be evidence that the only way she was able to give him an erection was through prostate stimulation.

 

[HBK-aholic]

To me, rape inherently involves a rapist penetrating a rape victim. Women CAN rape men, but for me to consider it rape it would have to involve a woman putting a phallic object in a man's...well, you know what I'm getting at.

To be as blunt as possible, I think this story is flat-out bullshit. I have had unwanted sexual advances from a woman before, and I know for a fact that men that have been in a similar situation would tell you that your junk pulls a turtle on you when this happens. For me to believe that this man was raped, there would have to be evidence that the only way she was able to give him an erection was through prostate stimulation.

Oh please, I'm a woman and I know that men can and do often get erections at awkward times. Are you really saying that it's impossible for your body to have that response even if your brain really doesn't want it to? There have been reports of women having an orgasm during a rape. While I find that hard to get my head around, I don't doubt that it's happened, and that it was a response to the physical stimulation of intercourse instead of being a willing participant.

I can completely understand why men in this position don't say anything; women are often not believed when they report the crime, men would have the same reaction but with the added headache of people who think like you do, and that if he hadn't wanted sex he could have stopped it.

Add to that, men are usually physically stronger than women, so they are either scared of being called weak, or else the woman took advantage whilst he was under the influence of alcohol and they then have the 'Well you were drunk' argument to fight against, the same way women have to. It's also possible that despite having a physical strength advantage, people freeze up when placed in scary situations, or are even being emotionally abused to the extent physical strength doesn't mean anything.

 

[Loveless]

Oh please, I'm a woman and I know that men can and do often get erections at awkward times.

Precisely. It's ludicrous for someone to deny male rape on the basis of "Well you had to have been turned on first". Every damn guy on this forum knows it can be an involuntary reaction, even without stimulation, especially when you're tired or sleepy.

 

[klunderbunker]

Have you ever been walking or running and you rub up against your pants and gotten aroused by it? Based on the logic of arousal means attraction, you're sexually attracted to your pants.

Men absolutely can be raped by women. A rape is sex that is forced by one party while the other isn't wanting to participate, so why couldn't it apply if the gender roles were reversed? It could happen for multiple reasons and it's far less common, but it certainly can happen. Just because it isn't discussed in the open, it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

 

[lowandmighty]

A girl I was dating about 2 years ago told me a story of a male friend of her's who was raped by a woman.

It's quite a tragic story actually. The boy, about 22 at the time was at not really a party but just a night with a few friends and friends of friends.

Anyway after he went to bed one of the women who was there came into his room and raped him.

I asked how and apparently she was too heavy for him to get her off of him. He was only a small guy, probably about rey mysterio size without the muscle.

I asked but how did he get aroused because I wouldn't be if that happened to me and apparently the woman very patronizingly kept saying he was "a pretty boy" and constantly stimulating him and eventually he was aroused and it happened.

Now heres the worst part of it: She got pregnant! and he went to the police and they laughed him out of the station.

So I see this as quite a serious issue, just as women can be forced unto parenthood through rape so can men in rare cases and it needs to be recognized. Even worse the man who was raped can't choose an abortion.

For the record, women can be aroused during sexual assault. Otherwise it would be like raping a dry rubber tube and it is visible in the right circumstances, its a natural response to stimulation even during the fight or flight response.

Yeah don't ask how I know that.

 

[ocekit]

To be as blunt as possible, I think this story is flat-out bullshit. I have had unwanted sexual advances from a woman before, and I know for a fact that men that have been in a similar situation would tell you that your junk pulls a turtle on you when this happens. For me to believe that this man was raped, there would have to be evidence that the only way she was able to give him an erection was through prostate stimulation.

It pisses me off to see this kind of misinformation. Stuff like this is what keeps men from reporting these kinds of sexual assaults. Males are less likely to report a rape if they experience some sort of physical arousal during the rape. They feel like it wasn't really rape or that they're overreacting or weak because they've been told stuff like what's in your post.

Quoted from The Indiana Coalition Against Sexual Assault
Some men may believe they were not raped or that they consented because they became sexually aroused, had an erection, or ejaculated during the sexual assault. These are normal, involuntary physiological reactions. It does not mean that consent was given or that the victim wanted to be raped...Sexual arousal does not mean consent was given.
Since ejaculation is not always within conscious control but rather an involuntary physiological reaction, rapists frequently succeed at getting male victims to ejaculate.
In misidentifying ejaculation with orgasm, the victim may be bewildered by his physiological response during the sexual assault and, therefore, may be discouraged from reporting the assault...

Not every person has the same reaction to sexual stimuli, and humans do not have full control over their bodies' responses at all times. If force, violence, drugs, alcohol, or other forms of impairment are involved, certain normal socio-sexual controls can shut off, and may lead to a lack of control over one's physical reactions. Even fear of force can induce a form of physical arousal. This may not happen in all cases, and each case should be treated differently, but it is more common than you think.

A 2004 study from the Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine explains this issue quite clearly:

It is clear that both young and adult males can have maintained erections not only to non-consensual sexual stimulation but even to such stimulation when they are exposed to fearsome scenarios.

“A perpetrator’s defense against the alleged assault built solely on the evidence that genital arousal or orgasm in the victim proves consent has no intrinsic validity and should be disregarded.”

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

It pisses me off to see this kind of misinformation. Stuff like this is what keeps men from reporting these kinds of sexual assaults. Males are less likely to report a rape if they experience some sort of physical arousal during the rape. They feel like it wasn't really rape or that they're overreacting or weak because they've been told stuff like what's in your post.

Let's look at the FBI's definition of rape for the Uniform Crime Report (UCR) (here's the article I quote):

Attorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s (UCR) definition of rape, which will lead to a more comprehensive statistical reporting of rape nationwide. The new definition is more inclusive, better reflects state criminal codes and focuses on the various forms of sexual penetration understood to be rape. The new definition of rape is: “The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.” The definition is used by the FBI to collect information from local law enforcement agencies about reported rapes.

Don't be pissed off at what you perceive as misinformation. Be pissed off that you lazily picked the first definition of rape that matched your beliefs on the subject. Why on Earth would you quote a state rape coalition on their definition of rape? Is this even the legal definition of rape in Indiana?

Not every person has the same reaction to sexual stimuli, and humans do not have full control over their bodies' responses at all times. If force, violence, drugs, alcohol, or other forms of impairment are involved, certain normal socio-sexual controls can shut off, and may lead to a lack of control over one's physical reactions. Even fear of force can induce a form of physical arousal. This may not happen in all cases, and each case should be treated differently, but it is more common than you think.

This is just as vague and hypothetical as the quack journal article you quoted. The only thing that is definitively proven in this article is that it's possible for males to achieve an erection through non-consensual sexual stimulation. What exactly is entailed by such stimulation is left to the imagination of the reader. Besides bringing nothing of substance to dispute my original claims, quoting this article hurts your credibility.

 

[Dilligaf]

I can completely understand why men in this position don't say anything; women are often not believed when they report the crime, men would have the same reaction but with the added headache of people who think like you do, and that if he hadn't wanted sex he could have stopped it.

Add to that, men are usually physically stronger than women, so they are either scared of being called weak, or else the woman took advantage whilst he was under the influence of alcohol and they then have the 'Well you were drunk' argument to fight against, the same way women have to. It's also possible that despite having a physical strength advantage, people freeze up when placed in scary situations, or are even being emotionally abused to the extent physical strength doesn't mean anything.

Very true.

Its the same when a man is a victim of domestic/physical abuse from his wife or girlfriend, men can be very secretive when it comes to topics like this.

There's a TV channel over here in England called True Movies & one of the movies I saw was about this guy who was in a 20 or so year marriage to his wife with a couple of kids & his wife would beat him up all the time & he would cover it up until one of his friends noticed bruises.

But some of his other friend & workmates also found out but made fun about him not being a man & letting his wife do thing like that to him, but eventually over the years he got sick of it & did something about it.

He finally went to the police & at first they didnt believe him and also too made fun of him, but eventually things went his way & his wife was trialed & sent to prison for it, the man himself eventually got his life back on track & is now has sole custody of his kids & in a new relationship and living a better life.

Rape is rape at the end of the day, no matter who the perpetrator & victim are.