'ALMOST' 5-star WWE matches

[frostbite2819]

I have been thinking about the whole idea of a 5-star match and what makes it a 5-star match, I saw a discussion elsewhere on 'almost' 5-star matches.

So i was wondering, in the WWE in the last 15 years, (since 96 lets say)
what matches do you think were literally 4 and 3/4 star matches, that just needed that little extra something to make it legendary?

What KEPT it from being a 5-star match?

Everybody has different criteria of what makes it a 5-star match, so lets save that debate for another thread, and just discuss the matches themselves.

I have many but i will defer to you guys and sound off later with my own, as it is 3 in the morning here and time for bed!!!

 

[Gunnar]

Well, one that clings near and dear to my heart is Wrestlemania XX, Triple H vs Shawn Michaels vs Chris Benoit for the World Heavyweight Championship, it had everything that the wrestling fan would have been looking for, and i'm not sure how the IWC felt about Benoit in 2004, but he was one of the best submission style wrestlers i've ever seen, and to see all 3 guys busted open, lying on the mat, and then Benoit to make Triple H tap, and then to have Eddie Guerrero come out after retaining his only World Title, it was an amazing moment, and even though it wasn't part of the match, it was one of my favorite moments as a wrestling fan.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

What about the famous Kurt Angle v Shane McMahon Street Fight at King Of The Ring 2001?

That really was a phenomenal match, especially as Shane is not and never was a full-time wrestler. It told a story, both guys gave it their all and the bumps McMahon took in that match were incredible.

I think the only thing that would stop it from being a 5 star match was that the botches where Shane didn't break the glass when Kurt attempted to suplex him through it. I personally think it added to the drama of the match and made it even more brutal, but they WERE botches, and you can't really have a 5 star match with errors like that.

 

[Gunnar]

Yea, that one made me cringe when he bounced off the window and landed on his head, and then Angle kept belly to belly-ing Shane through windows.

I think that Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels in the first ladder match in WWF history was probably the most technical ladder match of all time, hell, anytime Bret Hart and HBK locked up, it could almost be a 5 star.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Were any of the RVD vs Jerry Lynn matches in ECW given 5 stars by Meltzer? If so, why the hell not? They really were some of the greatest matches I have ever seen. No matter how often I see them, they still blow me away. RVD was phenomenal in his prime, so innovative and Jerry Lynn is one of the most underrated wrestlers in history. He deserved a far bigger chance than he got in WWE.

2 of the very best in the business, non-stop action, some incredible moves and sequences and there legacy is still felt today with TNA cashing in on their famous rivalry with another RVD v Lynn match at BFG, although the quality of match will certainly be much lower.

 

[frostbite2819]

Were any of the RVD vs Jerry Lynn matches in ECW given 5 stars by Meltzer? If so, why the hell not? They really were some of the greatest matches I have ever seen. No matter how often I see them, they still blow me away. RVD was phenomenal in his prime, so innovative and Jerry Lynn is one of the most underrated wrestlers in history. He deserved a far bigger chance than he got in WWE.

2 of the very best in the business, non-stop action, some incredible moves and sequences and there legacy is still felt today with TNA cashing in on their famous rivalry with another RVD v Lynn match at BFG, although the quality of match will certainly be much lower.

none of their matches were given 5 stars by 'Dave' but wow that series was incredible.
I hated ECW till i watched their Living Dangerously match, was blown away, i might go back and watch it now.

My favorite almost 5 star match is the Edge/John Cena TLC match from Canada.
It had so much emotion, edge fighting back tears during his introduction and entrance gives me goosebumps to this day. What would have made it 5 stars for me would have been Edge winning, he could have had his 'Punk in Chicago' moment. Even Cena wanted to put Edge over here, as you can see he is very visibly upset when he reaches for the title, I remember my cousin telling me Cena wanted Edge to go over here but ole Vinnie Mac wouldnt hear of it.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

What KEPT it from being a 5-star match?

Dave Meltzer.

You see a lot of people rambling about a what a stereotypical Internet Wrestling fan is like. That all Internet marks like is wrestlers who can perform a variety of moves or flips or the ones who do holds with unpronounceable Japanese names. You can thank Dave Meltzer for that. That is the way Meltzer thinks. Otherwise it is unfathomable why the most successful wrestling company on the planet has had just a handful of five star matches while a company like ROH which almost no one watches has a larger number of them. It implies that success in this business has nothing to do with hardwork which while I know is what a lot of people like to believe, its simply untrue.

I know you told me to refrain from this but you have also asked me to name those matches that lacked a bit to make them a five star match. I personally believe that these matches lacked nothing but Meltzer may have thought so. What I will have to do here is to put myself in Meltzer's shoes and do the thinking.

The two matches that I thought deserved a five star rating more than others were HBK vs Y2J at Mania 19 and Austin vs Angle at SummerSlam 2001. Both had perfect storytelling. Look at Austin vs Angle for example. Austin dominates early on and hits his big move on Angle but Angle kicks out much to everyone's shock. Austin gets frustrated and bloodies him up. Angle then fights back in the typical babyface manner and has Austin almost beat. Austin then cheats and gets the advantage once again and hits another Stunner to which Angle kicks out. Austin loses it now but more importantly realises that he cannot win and so he bangs up every referree in sight to earn a DQ. That's a perfect match but I guess it loses out due to the fact that the finish was not clean. I, on the other hand, actually feel that the unclean finish is what makes it a five star match but I guess Meltzer would say I am nuts.

HBK vs Y2J is again an example of great storytelling. It's the quintessential teacher vs student showdown with Y2J wanting to emulate HBK and succeeding in doing after a brief opening salvo by Shawn so but cannot earn a victory because of HBK's fighting spirit and his ring savviness. Y2J hits one big move after another on Shawn hoping that it will get the job done but it is Shawn who wins because he is just smarter. I don't know why this was not a five star match and I can't even think why Meltzer did not award it one. aybe it's placement on the card had something to do with it.

 

[Gunnar]

It may sound insane, but the wrestling business has almost nothing to do with wrestling, I mean, if you're a big guy, an interesting character, or 7 feet tall, you can be a successful professional wrestler (look at Khali) getting a 5-star match from someone who cares about what goes on in the ring (Meltzer) when you're someone like Khali is just not going to happen, I mean Meltzer made Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels Hell in a Cell a 5 star (I think) and I mean Kane debuted, interfered, etc. so it makes no sense why RVD/Lynn got no kudos.

Another match that was pretty cool was Cena vs Michaels when they had that hour long match on RAW, Vince letting there be an hour long match on RAW should have been a 5-star just because of how long it was on WWE programming.

 

[djthriller1207]

For me, it would have to be the Hell In A Cell match between Shawn Michaels and Undertaker from Badd Blood 1997. Meltzer gave it 5 stars according to the Wrestling Observer Newsletter. I've seen the match several times and I don't consider it 5 stars at all. Their recent matches I would consider 5 stars. I could understand that it was the first Hell In A Cell match and all, but it is NOT a 5 star match. In my opinion, it is at least **** 1/2 and nothing more than that.

 

[The Idiot]

Look at Austin vs Angle for example. Austin dominates early on and hits his big move on Angle but Angle kicks out much to everyone's shock. Austin gets frustrated and bloodies him up. Angle then fights back in the typical babyface manner and has Austin almost beat. Austin then cheats and gets the advantage once again and hits another Stunner to which Angle kicks out. Austin loses it now but more importantly realises that he cannot win and so he bangs up every referree in sight to earn a DQ. That's a perfect match but I guess it loses out due to the fact that the finish was not clean. I, on the other hand, actually feel that the unclean finish is what makes it a five star match but I guess Meltzer would say I am nuts.

I'm not big on Meltzer, never was never will be. But I'll defend him here.

As a wrestling fan watching a great match and then not being able to see a clean finish is like a great football game. You watch both go back and forth for 4 quarter and then force overtime. Then continue to battle until the ref calls the game and is considered a draw and you're sitting there left unfulfilled. Well, in the case of pro wrestling when it ends in a disqualification it's the same thing. Neither side really won....and no matter how great the game/match was you can't say that it was perfect. There was no true ending.

A 5 star match is considered perfect....and I don't see that in a DQ finish, a draw, or a countout.

Just my $.02