2 years later: why destroying the shield was a bad idea.

Discussion in 'The Wrestling Archives' started by Psykohurricane55, Mar 21, 2016.

  1. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    Well said man, I actually like all 3 guys and I really hope that these guys become main event talent but they need better booking. So for ambrose, he needs to get this big win over lesnar to break through to the next level and reigns need a strong performance against hhh to turn some of the hardcore fan on his side and make him a megastar. Reigns his in the same place ryback was a couple of years ago and let hope they don't blow it like they did for ryback.
     
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  2. Spencesc11

    Spencesc11 Getting Noticed By Management

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    I think they executed it just fine. Now the "best thing for business" would be when Rollins returns to reform the group. The new "wrestling fan" doesn't want just good guys and bad guys they love the rogue hero (Stone Cold Steve Austin) type. So put The Shield back together and let them dominate again. A face vs. face collision between Reigns and Cena would be solid. And you don't need them to fight each other with plenty other talent on the roster.
     
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  3. Harthan

    Harthan Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus

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    I think the issue at the core of this thread is you've picked probably the Shield's lowest possible point since breaking up to declare it all a failure. The core idea here would make less sense six months ago, and I would wager it will make less sense six months from now (potentially even six weeks from now).

    Assuming we're talking from a pure creative perspective and not a business one (otherwise this thread goes right out, since the ability to fill up half the cards with Shield guys in different matches and move tons of merch has been bread and butter for business since they broke up), I think you're fundamentally correct that each guy has had some problems, but not to the point that it was a mistake to ever try.

    Characterizing Seth as one of the worst WWE Champions "since the Miz" is flawed in a number of different ways - the first of which in my mind is the implication that the Miz was particularly bad as WWE Champion, which I would disagree with, but that's not the point we're discussing. With Seth the WWE was able to accomplish something tremendously difficult in the modern era - getting over a mega heel. Take a look at the annals of the WWE Championship over the last few years or so, and you won't find many first time WWE Champions who were bona fide heels. The only one that really counts as a true heel is Alberto del Rio, and he was never over at the level Seth was. There was a real period of time in between WrestleMania and SummerSlam where Seth got some of the best pure heel heat any wrestler has gotten in a long time. It's hugely difficult for heels in the modern era to straddle between "go away" heat, so to speak, and getting too over with the crowd to the point they're cheered. They booked Seth and his feuds so well through this time period that he really hit the sweet spot for a long time. Now, where you're not wrong entirely, is that at the end of his reign, he was matched up with subpar opponents - Sting, who the crowd never fully invested in, and Kane, who is Kane. But truthfully, I think this situation is only magnified because Seth tore his ACL. Seth was about to embark, presumably, on a tear that would have involved several excellent matches with Reigns and very likely a huge WrestleMania feud with HHH that would have turned him face, finishing off a storyline two years in the making. I think it would have gone down as one of the best booked stories in years for the WWE. Seth's injury cost us that, but we would never have been even close if not for the Shield breaking up.

    For Dean, characterizing him as "decently over" does a wild injustice to the single most over full time babyface on the roster. Even on an injury free roster (mostly meaning, stacked next to Cena) Dean is more over with more of the crowd that anyone else is, and is positively approaching Daniel Bryan levels of popularity. For a while, Ambrose losing in big spots looked haphazard, random, and meaningless, and perhaps provided the initial spark to get him this over. Now the WWE has latched onto the idea and are weaving it pretty masterfully in my opinion. Dean's feud and match with HHH was great, and his feud with Lesnar is turning him (not subtly) into Mankind for this generation. I don't think, as has been said here, that Dean needs the win over Lesnar to go over to the next level. Dean isn't a character that's wholly about winning and losing anymore, at least not on pinfalls - Dean's begun to survive on winning the war, not the battle, again in a very Mankind like way. And much like when Mankind finally won the WWE Championship, Dean's win someday will be a huge, business defining moment. Again, totally impossible without the breakup of the Shield.

    Reigns is of course the most polarizing member of the Shield and I'm not going to go to bat for him, because I would fundamentally agree that he's been handled badly. I don't think it invalidates the Shield's breakup that he's failed from a creative perspective, but it also doesn't really make a strong point for. What I can say about Reigns is this - he's a very good wrestler who's been horribly miscast as a face, but at the drop of a pin he could become the biggest monster heel potentially in the history of pro wrestling. He's got the look, the moves, and already has the heat - if the WWE would just book it, Reigns would be a massive success as the top heel. He would be the successor to HHH that Rollins never truly could be (hey, does that sound like a good storyline idea to anyone else?).

    To wrap it up, the Shield are, in my opinion, a heel turn and a repaired ACL from being the three most over guys in the company and truthfully some of the best booking, analyzed over the long term. As it stands without those things, the body of work (at least for Ambrose and Rollins) and the potential in front of them still is a massive, ringing endorsement for the Shield breakup.
     
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  4. Piss Bucket

    Piss Bucket Future British World Champ

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    I still think Seth Rollins would be a nobody if HHH wasn't in love with him.

    He would've been jobbing to the likes of Bo Dallas on Main Event probably.
     
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  5. JoeMallard

    JoeMallard Getting Noticed By Management

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    Can you a bigger fucking idiot? Seth Rollins is the best all around talent the wwe has, has a great look, he can cut a good promo, he's great in the ring and he can garner the right reaction from the fans. It sounds like you're just mad the "IWC" doesn't like the guy you do.
     
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  6. ColeMc

    ColeMc Pre-Show Stalwart

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    I can't imagine that this thread is serious.

    I loved the Shield and was a bit sad when they broke up. But I understood the need to split them into singles storylines.

    The Dean Ambrose/Seth Rollins feud over "stopping the cash in" was my favourite angle and pushed both guys well over.

    Roman is about to main event his second WM, probably would have been versus Rollins had he not been injured.

    Dean is so over he could be pushed to the title tomorrow and no-one would complain.

    Is this thread just trolling?
     
    #31
  7. Psykohurricane55

    Psykohurricane55 Moderator
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    no, this thread isn'T trolling. i'm very serious with this based on what i see and heard on t.v every week. When the shields broke up, they did a really good job of building all three guys into superstars and let'S face it, all three guy we're super over with all the fans not just IWC.

    2 years laters and a lot of creative mistakes for all 3 mens, they all lost some momentum. Roman reigns is main event his second wrestlemania but doesn't have the connection with the fans that he use to have 2 years ago and most of the fans would rather have him be taking off that main event slot and put in a mid card match.

    Dean ambrose lost alot of steam with the fans because of the way he got booked in feud with Bray wyatt and other feud we're he lost most of his matches. I listen to the philadelphia crowd last night when dean ambrose came out and he got the same type of response that ziggler is getting, so he'S over but not as big as what he was 2 years ago.

    The best thing that could have happenned to seth rollins was getting injured because let'S face it, while being one hell of a good heel, his booking as champion was atrocious and if the rumors where true, he was set to lose the belt to roman reigns at survivor series and then go in the match against HHH at wrestlemania, so they would have had to do a really quick babyface turn either him or HHH and if they would have turn Seth babyface, i don'T know if the fans would have taken to him or not.

    The point i was making was they had a lot of momentum when they were the shields and they could have let them still be the shields and not split them up but do a friendly disband of the group and always have the option of bringing them back if need be and you could have rident the momentum they had back then instead of trying to rebuild them.
     
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  8. S.J. Maximus

    S.J. Maximus Championship Contender

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    I am shocked that there is even one person who feels the way the OP does, but completely baffled that I saw some people who even remotely agreed in the other posts. I honestly think the existence of the Shield and the subsequent breakup was the best thing WWE Creative has produced in the last 10 years.

    I'm not the typical IWC smark who knew these guys as Tyler Black (or whatever Rollins was in ROH) and Moxley, I can only judge based on their work on the main WWE roster. When they debuted, I wasn't overly excited and didn't think much of any of the 3 individually meanwhile IWC smarks hailed their debut promo as the best thing ever and branded Rollins and Ambrose as future hall of famers.

    With all that aside though, it's really hard to find fault with anything WWE Creative had done with them from their debut until about the 2015 Royal Rumble. Like I said before, I think they were the best-booked entity of the last decade, and it was very clear by 2015 that all 3 men were going to be big names for years to come.

    Seth Rollins: He is the first Seth Rollins, but for those who like to compare people he's the closest thing to Michaels we've seen since HBK himself came back in 2002. The guy who will consistently outperform everybody else every night and put out the match of the night whether it's the opener or the main event (At WrestleMania 31 it was both!). IMO he is the most talented of the 3 and has the best "Post-Shield" resume so far; This ACL tear is definitely a huge roadblock but if he is able to return to form then it will be very clear that we are in the midst of a first ballot Hall of Fame career.

    Dean Ambrose: As the only Shield alum without a World Title reign, you'd be surprised to hear me say that I actually think he's been booked the best "Post-Shield" of the 3 men. The OP's opinion of Rollins' reign was clearly affected by the fact that they made him one of the most chicken shit pussy heels of all-time, which I can definitely see people losing respect for the accomplishments of that reign. Ambrose, on the other hand, was always portrayed as the willing gutsy fighter much like the man who gave him "Barbie", Mick Foley. He is currently the most popular full-time wrestler in the world, and headed to WrestleMania in what is looking like the best match of the night with the most popular wrestler of any kind in Brock Lesnar. You really think he misses the Shield?

    Roman Reigns: He is the only reason I have to say the "Post-Shield" booking stopped being perfect in 2015. On paper, (as his uncle pointed out) he is a Royal Rumble Winner, 2-time World Champion, and former Tag Champion. People have gone in the Hall of Fame for much less (look at Godfather), and if they just take a second and stop shoving him down our throats maybe some of his future accomplishments will happen more organically. If you have any doubts, watch the 2014 Royal Rumble match. Fans were LOVING the idea of The Shield breaking up, and they loved the idea of Roman being a dominant beast. The YES movement, an untimely injury, and questionable booking have now completely ruined that and turned Roman into the most unpopular face ever but I definitely do see a big future for him (please turn him heel guys!!!).

    Based on all that above, all 3 guys are better off "Post-Shield". And for the OP's suggestion that they could all co-exist as a stable and simultaneously dominate the main event scene as singles stars doesn't make sense and literally isn't possible. With stables that are created to develop new talent, it's always best to let them grow together and then kick them out of the nest and let them fly when they're ready (look at HHH leaving DX in 99, Orton's Evolution exit in 04, or Batista's Evolution exit in 05). Maybe you could've kept them together a little bit longer, but I personally think the timing was perfect and that everything (for the most part) worked out for the best.
     
    #33

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