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View Poll Results: Gold Medal Ironman - Shawn Michaels (USA) vs Chris Benoit (CAN)
Shawn Michaels 28 40.58%
Chris Benoit 41 59.42%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #21  
Old 02-15-2010, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Man View Post
One more important factor that I just though of is that I need to quote JR:

"NO ONE can out-perform Shawn Michaels in big-match situations."

Benoit, on the other hand, had an entire storyline written around the fact that he was a choke-artist in big-match situations.
Lol... answer me this, D-Man, what happened in the main event at Wrestlemania 20, which was being billed as the biggest Wrestlemania in history at the time?

I love Shawn Michaels, but Benoit would win this match, no doubt. D-Man talks about Benoit choking... shit, I'm pretty sure if we looked it up, Benoit has more wins over Triple H than ANYONE post 2003. If Benoit was so dominating over HHH... then why wouldn't it be the same against HBK? And hell... didn't Benoit beat HHH himself in a match JUST LIKE THIS on Raw one time? Yep, he sure did, to retain the World Title, too.

One on one, regular stipulations, Michaels would stand a chance at winning against Benoit, I'll admit that, because honestly... Michaels stands a chance at defeating anyone throughout the history of the sport one on one in a fair, regular contest. However, in an 1 hour Iron-Man? Benoit would just tear Michaels apart. Sorry, but it's true. In fact, I honestly don't think anyone could defeat Benoit in an hour Iron Man contest. His gas tank was too good, he was tough as nails, and he just has the offense to wear and tear people down during the duration of an hour. Seriously, those chops, German-Suplexes, headbutts from the top, crippler crossfaces.... imagine having to take those bad boys for an hour's time? Nobody's surviving that, including Shawn Michaels.
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  #22  
Old 02-15-2010, 07:25 PM
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Just some things that come to mind...

Many have pointed out that Michaels defeated Hart in overtime at WM 12, and thus reference how Michaels failed to beat Hart in the time allotted. However, this also means Hart failed to beat Michaels even once in the same time period. Comparing Benoit and Hart, I find Hart to have far more success closing matches than Benoit. Speaking from a kayfabe point of view, Benoit had a career of coming up short, saved for a brief main event run, while in Michaels's main event run, he went over guys like Hart.

People keep saying how Benoit defeated Michaels at Wrestlemania 20, yet it was in fact Triple H that tapped out to the Crossface on that night. Granted, Michaels did tap to the Sharpshooter at Backlash, but facts are facts, and should be represented accurately.

Some have referenced Michaels's losses at Wrestlemania, yet Benoit's have somehow gone unrepresented. Benoit won and lost a fall at WM 16 (both to Jericho), lost at WM 17 (to Angle), lost at WM 19 (triple threat tag match), lost at 21 (MitB ladder match), and lost at WM 22 (to JBL).

I also seem to remember that in the Benoit/Triple H ironman match, Benoit only scored the final fall with some help from Eugene. Granted, Benoit did get the job done, but he needed some aid to do so.
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  #23  
Old 02-15-2010, 07:40 PM
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The win here is going to Benoit, and going to him rather easily. Why? Because HBK has already undeservedly gone past Kenta Kobashi in an Iron Man match, while Benoit had an easy route here. No way is HBK going to be going over someone with the conditioning of Chris Benoit, who in my opinion is arguably the single greatest in-ring performer to ever live, with only a very select few coming close to him. HBK could be argued in that category, but frankly I think Benoit is leagues above HBK in the ring and has a MUCH more diverse skillset, if not the single most diverse skillset of anyone in professional wrestling history. Add in to the fact that he has more experience in Iron Man matches than HBK does, and I'd say this one is definitely in Benoit's favor.

Vote goes to Benoit here, no doubt about it. I love HBK, but he's just not nearly as good of a worker as Benoit was.
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  #24  
Old 02-15-2010, 08:09 PM
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X pretty much said it, Benoit was had an easy time, just look at the score in the matches before this, they were probably both 3+ pin wins, possibly even shutouts. He is just getting warmed up. On the other hand, Shawn Michaels seems to have needed every last second, possibly even overtime to win, he is exhausted. We haven seen Shawn Michaels after hard battles, Undertaker, Stone Cold, and others, he took a LONG time to get back. Well he has now wrestled harder matches for longer times in back to back. his sore back is killing him here, and Chris Benoit, a master technician, perhaps even a "crippler" has moves that will tear Michaels apart. Crossface will ruin his upper back, while his Sharpshoother, which is deadly, a move that has BEATEN Shawn Michaels, in a big name match before, would tear apart Michaels. And one thing I know about Michaels, is he is a man of pride, and would refuse to tap out. If Benoit doesn't get that point, it wont matter, because Shawn isn't going an hour.
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  #25  
Old 02-15-2010, 08:24 PM
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If this happened in one match without Shawn having to face to wrestling greats i beleive Shawn would win. Considering the fact that Chris Benoit is in my opinion a great technical wrestler the guy who made me care about in ring performence other then the story. In a close one i believe Chris will take the gold somewhere around 2-1 or so.
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  #26  
Old 02-16-2010, 10:21 AM
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Lol... answer me this, D-Man, what happened in the main event at Wrestlemania 20, which was being billed as the biggest Wrestlemania in history at the time?

I love Shawn Michaels, but Benoit would win this match, no doubt. D-Man talks about Benoit choking... shit, I'm pretty sure if we looked it up, Benoit has more wins over Triple H than ANYONE post 2003. If Benoit was so dominating over HHH... then why wouldn't it be the same against HBK? And hell... didn't Benoit beat HHH himself in a match JUST LIKE THIS on Raw one time? Yep, he sure did, to retain the World Title, too.
Once again, you guys aren't reading my posts in full.

During Wrestlemania XX, HBK was past his prime. I feel that an HBK from the New Generation --> Attitude Era of the WWE could defeat Chris Benoit, who was known as a choke artist, in his prime.

Benoit had a good run for 8 months... the time between winning the Royal Rumble and holding the WWE Championship for 5 months before losing it to a 24-year old Randy Orton. Besides that, he was always tetering on main event status, but only went as far as being a strong midcarder. That is FACT.

HBK had an incredible win/loss record during his first main event run, which lasted for almost 2 years. His only loss from his championship run after WM12 was against Sycho Sid, and he gained the championship back 2 months later. Then it was vacated due to injury (or controversy... whatever) and he regained it at the Monteal Screwjob and held it until Wrestlemania against Steve Austin.

This tramples over Chris Benoit's lackluster reign. I don't care how tough he portrays himself, HBK is more experienced and has a better track record as a top spot superstar.
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  #27  
Old 02-16-2010, 10:44 AM
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I think my vote has to go Chris Benoit way here. When considering all the matches that I have seen both in and the relative dominance that Chris Benoit had at his height in these kind of brusing encounters I think he would have the edge on Shawn Michaels here who would not be able to put the Canadian down as easy as would occur vice- versa. So while it would be a very close and tightly fought match- I see the toll that Chris will have brought down on Shawn as being too much for him to recover from- especially considering the past matches.
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  #28  
Old 02-16-2010, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Man View Post
Once again, you guys aren't reading my posts in full.

During Wrestlemania XX, HBK was past his prime. I feel that an HBK from the New Generation --> Attitude Era of the WWE could defeat Chris Benoit, who was known as a choke artist, in his prime.
I disagree. Michaels has had way more classic matches since his return in 2002 then he did back during the mid-nineties run.

Moreover, from a kayfabe perspective, the competition of the last 8 years have been way tougher than the guys HBK beat during the mid-nineties, when you look at the big picture. You don't think Cena would have been able to beat all the guys HBK beat? HHH of this decade couldn't defeat those guys? Randy Orton? Kurt Angle? Come on, D-Man.

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Originally Posted by D-Man View Post
Benoit had a good run for 8 months... the time between winning the Royal Rumble and holding the WWE Championship for 5 months before losing it to a 24-year old Randy Orton.
Michaels lost to a 23-year-old Randy Orton at Unforgiven the year before... what's your point?

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Besides that, he was always tetering on main event status, but only went as far as being a strong midcarder. That is FACT.
Not exactly. Benoit made it to the top of WCW, but decided to head to WWE instead. So, not a fact, my man.

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HBK had an incredible win/loss record during his first main event run, which lasted for almost 2 years. His only loss from his championship run after WM12 was against Sycho Sid, and he gained the championship back 2 months later. Then it was vacated due to injury (or controversy... whatever) and he regained it at the Monteal Screwjob and held it until Wrestlemania against Steve Austin.
Agreed, it was a nice little run, but I'd argue that Benoit's record against HHH is more impressive than anything HBK did back then. Besides, it's not like HBK was beating the best of the best at this point. Sid and Diesel were his most impressive wins, but pretty much everyone else was a joke. Over the hill versions of Davey Boy and Vader, Goldust... Benoit in his prime would kill all these clowns, and you know it.

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This tramples over Chris Benoit's lackluster reign. I don't care how tough he portrays himself, HBK is more experienced and has a better track record as a top spot superstar.
I disagree completely.

Like I said... HBK, during what YOU say is his prime, had perhaps the weakest line-up of challengers any long-term World Champion has ever had, which is why WWE's numbers reached an all time low during that time.

I love, love, love HBK, and the mid-nineties version is my favorite, but Benoit would simply destroy him in this type of match-up. There's no two ways about.
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  #29  
Old 02-16-2010, 04:50 PM
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Once again, you guys aren't reading my posts in full.

During Wrestlemania XX, HBK was past his prime. I feel that an HBK from the New Generation --> Attitude Era of the WWE could defeat Chris Benoit, who was known as a choke artist, in his prime.
Really? Benoit was a choke artist in his prime? Are you joking me? Was that before or after he was winning the most prestigious wrestling tournament on the globe, the Super J Cup? Because he won that in 1994 and held several of the top titles for junior heavyweights on the globe through out the 90s before he even made it into WCW and the like. Oh, and he was a World Champion in WCW too which people seem to forget.

Benoit in his prime was a choke artist? Surely you MUST be joking me.
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  #30  
Old 02-17-2010, 03:58 AM
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Once again, you guys aren't reading my posts in full.
Well, you don't read anyone else's so why should they bother doing you any favors in return?

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Originally Posted by D-Man View Post
During Wrestlemania XX, HBK was past his prime. I feel that an HBK from the New Generation --> Attitude Era of the WWE could defeat Chris Benoit, who was known as a choke artist, in his prime.
Chris Benoit, in his prime, was on the top of W.C.W, jumped to the W.W.E and only went up. He jumped to the W.W.E and instantly defeated The Rock, who was one of the top 2 Main Event guys in the company.

From there, he went on to win multiple Intercontinental (midcard, as you will see it) Championships, a Royal Rumble, and a Heavyweight title at Wrestlemania XX. Not just any Wrestlemania, but one that will be viewed as a cornerstone in the list of Mania's. (Mania 1, 10, 2000, 20) So on, so forth.

HBK in his prime defeated a career list of midcards; namely the British Bulldog and Owen Hart. He had a war with Vader, one I might add that he had to have the match continue 3 times before he could finally win - even though he lost the first two parts of that match. A no contest with Mankind, and a loss to an aging Sid Vicious.

Yes, HBK in his prime was something. I'm shocked you didn't throw in his pinfall victory over Jim Cornette. That would've surely put him over the top. Oh.. shit.. wait, no, he actually LOST to Jim Cornette.

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Benoit had a good run for 8 months... the time between winning the Royal Rumble and holding the WWE Championship for 5 months before losing it to a 24-year old Randy Orton.
And in that time, defeated; Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Kane, and a host of other guys in between. All before losing to an up-and-coming future Main Event star in Randy Orton.

So.. let's see. Benoit loses to a guy just coming into his prime in Orton.

HBK loses to Sid Vicious.. a guy closing in on his 40's at that time? How is HBK's loss not seen as worse?

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Besides that, he was always tetering on main event status, but only went as far as being a strong midcarder. That is FACT.
No, whats a FACT is you just like using that word to make idiots who don't know any better think you actually know what you're talking about. When the truth is, its nothing more than an opinion. And an awful one, at that.

Chris Benoit was a strong midcarder, because everyone always viewed him as being better than the midcard level. Just because a Company holds you down, doesn't mean you can't compete at a higher level. And once Benoit got his opportunity, he took control over every moment and made the most of them.

Shawn Michaels only seemed to find random reasons to leave the Company whenever he was meant to 'decline'. "Thugs" attacking him outside a night club. Lost smiles. Broken backs. Swollen anus. Hey, I'm not here to judge. Just giving you what by your standards would be considered "FACTS".

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Originally Posted by D-Man View Post
HBK had an incredible win/loss record during his first main event run, which lasted for almost 2 years. His only loss from his championship run after WM12 was against Sycho Sid, and he gained the championship back 2 months later. Then it was vacated due to injury (or controversy... whatever) and he regained it at the Monteal Screwjob and held it until Wrestlemania against Steve Austin.
Incredible? Thats hardly the word I'd use to describe it. More like lack-luster, over rated and barely note-worthy. He defeated who, during this time?

Diesel: Who was leaving the Company.
British Bulldog: It took him two monthes, at the KotR, before he could get a clean victory - after the Bulldog pinned his shoulders to the mat just the same a month prior.
Vader: Again, it took him three tries. He lost the first two. Vader also held non-title victories over him numerous times.
Mankind: Their match was a no contest.
Sid Vicious: Lost to him at Survivor Series.
--
Sid Vicious: Regained the title at the Rumble.
Vacated title before getting the chance to drop it at Mania.
Bret Hart: Screwjob.
Undertaker: Barely won a Casket match - with Kane, Outlaws, Triple H and Savio's group all pitching a helping hand.
Steve Austin: Lost title at Mania - 'retired' shortly thereafter.

Is that what you would call Incredible?

Six whole victories, all of which tagged with questionable acts and reasons on why he even won to begin with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Man View Post
This tramples over Chris Benoit's lackluster reign.
Oh yeah.. Benoit never had nearly as many controversies happening during his reign. It was more clear-cut he WAS the true Champion, and no one ever really beat him until they actually did beat him and took the title.

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Originally Posted by D-Man View Post
I don't care how tough he portrays himself, HBK is more experienced and has a better track record as a top spot superstar.
Do me one favor. Just name me ONE title match, that was on a high profile level, that Shawn Michaels HAS WON that didn't have some type of controversy attached to it. Just one. If Shawn is so much greater on the Main Event stage then surely you could name several, so one wouldn't be a problem.. right?
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