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View Poll Results: Who SURVIVES?
Chris Jericho (CAN) 20 33.90%
Bret Hart (CAN) 25 42.37%
Chris Benoit (CAN) 16 27.12%
Edge (CAN) 17 28.81%
Hulk Hogan (USA) 26 44.07%
Kurt Angle (USA) 9 15.25%
Shawn Michaels (USA) 9 15.25%
Steve Austin (USA) 18 30.51%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #11  
Old 02-14-2010, 06:32 PM
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Ok , so I stand corrected on that, but I'm mainly trying to point out that I think team Canada will present a more unified team and approach to the match than the Americans.
No disrespect to the American team intended, I just think the Canooks will work better together as a team then Americans.
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  #12  
Old 02-14-2010, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LascoX View Post
Ok , so I stand corrected on that, but I'm mainly trying to point out that I think team Canada will present a more unified team and approach to the match than the Americans.
No disrespect to the American team intended, I just think the Canooks will work better together as a team then Americans.
I agree with this, on a slight edge. (no pun intended)

Team Canada WILL work better as a Team, especially since the majority of them have been Team-mates in their history and only Shawn Michaels and Steve Austin had an (albeit, shaky) alliance.

However, here's the thing...

This contest is in Survivor Series elimination format. Which means, short of Team Canada finding an unlikely way of eliminating Team USA, without losing any members themselves - its not a huge factor that one team has more chemistry and team-work ability than the other.

Once members from Team Canada start becoming eliminated, they won't have the same strong Team chemistry. If anything, the likes of Jericho & Edge could become slightly erratic and could make mistakes, which cost them.

Now, I'm not trying to bury Team Canada so I don't want some naive lame-brain coming along saying "Yep, thats it they lost." Because I'm not saying it will happen - I'm saying it could happen.

When I think of Survivor Series matches I think of match-ups.

Bret Hart has 'owned' Steve Austin
Edge has more victories over Kurt Angle, than vise versa
Benoit matches up roughly even with Shawn Michaels, yet has more victories over him as well.

Which leaves Hogan and Hart, and thats where Hogan wins. Then if historical events hold true - goes on to unrealistically runs rough-shot through the rest of Team Canada for an unlikely, unrealistic yet very possible victory.
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  #13  
Old 02-15-2010, 08:46 AM
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I see Team USA coming out on top here, with Hulk Hogan being the sole survivor.

First off, I feel that it would be unfair to say things like, "Team Canada would probably work better together." This is a Survivor Series match... since when does a team have to actually be a team to win a match here?? In the past, these matches have always been about the total individual strengths of its members and their ability to.. well.. survive. Granted, there are rare occasions where things such as interference would get a guy eliminated. But most eliminations during the SS matchups are from one man's single, finishing attack onto another.

As difficult of a decision as it would be to choose a winner in this matchup, you need to view it from a different perspective to see which way it would end. Instead of focusing on the weaknesses of these strong participants, we should be looking at their "survival factor." Mainly, the superstars with the best in-ring records and abilities to withstand punishment are the ones that last. That being said, I doubt that many of you could look at a guy like Hulk Hogan and ever believe that he would be eliminated from this match. In his prime (where he should be viewed in any of these WZO matches) he was rarely defeated. And when he WAS defeated, it was by a superhuman wrestler such as the Ultimate Warrior, Andre the Giant, Yokozuna, the Undertaker... I'm sorry, but none of the members of Team Canada have that kind of arsenal and individual strength to take down someone like Hulk Hogan in his prime.

So, like I said at the beginning, members of Team Canada won't be able to win this match unless they are able to take down each individual member of Team USA, one finisher at a time. We have to look at Team USA's members and see how susceptible they are to Canada's finishing maneuvers, and vice versa.

But let's save some time and but right to the chase... can any single member of Team Canada utilize one of their finishers to take down someone like Hulk Hogan?

Chris Jericho (Codebreaker/Wall of Jericho) - Hogan could Hulk-up after the Codebreaker... which is more like a glorified Stunner, anyway... and could power out of the Walls of Jericho.

Bret Hart (Sharpshooter) - Sorry, but Hogan spent a better portion of the late 80's and early 90's showing Bret that he was better than him in every way. Bret was never on a main-event level until Hogan left... and that had nothing to do with "drawing power".

Chris Benoit (Crossface) - As rabid as he was, the wolverine is just too puny and would be swatted away by a primed Hulk Hogan.

Edge (Spear/Edge-ecution/Edge-ucator) - Even though he has the largest array of finishers out of the Canadians, none of them are tough enough to keep Hogan down.

Hogan's demise is the key to Team Canada's victory. If they can't take Hogan down, they obviously cannot win. I just can't see any members of Team Canada being strong enough to do this. Their only chance would be to isolate Hogan and gang up on him, but that's a bit far fetched... that is, unless you can devise a way to convince everyone that the other members of Team Canada can clean-sweep Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, and HBK... and this is highly doubtful.
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  #14  
Old 02-15-2010, 11:26 AM
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Canada is the better team, but there is no one on that team that can stop Hulk Hogan in his prime. The other members of Team USA will put up a fight, and maybe even eliminate a Canadian or 2, but it will come down to Hogan vs. 2, 3, or 4 Canadians. USA vs. Canada. And we all know that Hogan would not lose in a situation like that. Hogan will be the Sole Survivor, standing in the ring waving the US flag after it is all over.
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  #15  
Old 02-17-2010, 03:32 AM
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Thus far I'm still leaning toward Team USA, but the biggest argument being presented for them is: "No one is powerful enough, or big enough, to stop Hulk Hogan in his prime."

Thats not an argument, thats a cheap and quite honestly "cheating" way out. Hulk Hogan was defeated "in his prime", and yes as D-Man pointed out it was mainly by cheating, or by guys much larger, or bigger in name than anyone on Team Canada. However, everyone who has pushed Team America in this is forgetting one slight thing.

Hulk Hogan does not need to be pinned, to be eliminated.

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This match follows traditional Survivor Series rules. Once one team has eliminated all 4 men on the opposing team via pinfall, submission, count-out, or DQ, the match ends, and the surviving team advances.
In other words, you don't have to be the more powerful team, to be the winning team. Team Canada is filled with guys that are more skilled through mindgames, and wit than they are with power and braun. They won't be foolish and stupid enough to think they can go toe-to-toe with a Hulk Hogan who uses the "no-sell" tactic. But a 10 count can be equal to that of any type of no selling ability Hogan could ever give anyone on Team Canada.

They don't have to hold him down for 3 seconds, to eliminate him. Hogan has been known to lose track of the count and get counted out in Survivor Series matches in the past. That is the key here. Someone on Team Canada will logically play the bait, Hogan will take it because thats what he does, and there you have it. Hogan is eliminated. No power struggle, no energy lost on trying to drain the man. A simple 10 count and he's out.

Now, I'm not convinced Canada can win even with this logic, but I would vote for them in a heartbeat if someone dares tell me what I just said is stupid and couldn't possibly happen - because plain and simply, it has happened in Hogan's prime, before.

Now - again - I'm leaning toward Team USA, but need more than "Hogan is unbeatable" to sway me fully. Go... give me more and you win my vote.
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  #16  
Old 02-17-2010, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
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In other words, you don't have to be the more powerful team, to be the winning team. Team Canada is filled with guys that are more skilled through mindgames, and wit than they are with power and braun. They won't be foolish and stupid enough to think they can go toe-to-toe with a Hulk Hogan who uses the "no-sell" tactic. But a 10 count can be equal to that of any type of no selling ability Hogan could ever give anyone on Team Canada.

They don't have to hold him down for 3 seconds, to eliminate him. Hogan has been known to lose track of the count and get counted out in Survivor Series matches in the past. That is the key here. Someone on Team Canada will logically play the bait, Hogan will take it because thats what he does, and there you have it. Hogan is eliminated. No power struggle, no energy lost on trying to drain the man. A simple 10 count and he's out.

Now, I'm not convinced Canada can win even with this logic, but I would vote for them in a heartbeat if someone dares tell me what I just said is stupid and couldn't possibly happen - because plain and simply, it has happened in Hogan's prime, before.
I think this is actually a really good argument. But here's the deal, like I said earlier, Team USA could get struck by a bolt of lightning, too.

Now why is that statement so condescending and out of line? Because the odds of it are completely far-fetched. But, we're not dealing with a real match here. This match would never happen in real life, but we can all dream. And in dreaming about who you feel should win, you play the odds. The odds of Team USA getting struck by lightning are a little bit in Team USA's favor, right?

The same goes for your theory about Hogan getting DQ'ed or counted out.

I said it earlier, no wrestler is undefeated. From time to time, they all lose. But some wrestlers are just larger than life and have much better odds of getting the job done. Hulk Hogan is one of those guys. In his prime, if I were a betting man, I would have bet the farm on him in ANY matchup. Why? Because I expected him to win, due to his overwhelming win record in big matches, including the Survivor Series.

Naturally, there's always a chance that Hogan would fuck up like he did in Survivor Series 1987, but once again, he was also being held outside the ring by 400lb+ One Man Gang and King Kong Bundy while the ref was distracted. First of all, I can't see how any members of Team Canada would have the strength to hold someone like a primed Hogan outside the ring for the ten count. Secondly, Hogan made this mistake one time and then went on to survive with Randy Savage the following year and become the sole survivors for every year afterwards. My point is that he's obviously learned from his mistakes and odds are that he would come out on top.

Play the odds, people... vote for Hulk Hogan of Team USA.
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  #17  
Old 02-18-2010, 03:53 AM
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Thank you, D-Man. At least you didn't say the idea of him being Counted out was stupid. But basically all your argument boiled down to was odds are in Hogan's favor that it wouldn't likely happen.

Unfortunately, its hard to know where we are in the odd's match-up. 99% of people would've figured Cena's odds of retaining against Sheamus were 100%, and 99% of people were wrong. 99% of people would've never believed a guy like Billy Kidman would go down in record books as holding a PINFALL VICTORY over Hulk Hogan, and 99% of people were wrong.

The point is, while odds are heavily against Hogan being counted out - its just crazy enough, just unlikely enough, that its not so odd (see what I did there) to think it could happen. So, what I need to know is.. let's for purpose sake say Hulk Hogan was eliminated via Count out, or DQ, or just overall in general.

I want arguments that show me why Team USA is more than one guy. I'm asking anyone to show me how Team USA can win without Hulk Hogan being their sole Survivor, or even a remote option, in this thing. (assuming the unlikely odds happen, and he does get counted out)
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  #18  
Old 02-19-2010, 10:43 PM
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I Belive USA should and will take this one, not just because of Hogan but Because of Austin.


Steve is willing to do damned near anything to especially if there is something major on the line and while The Micheals/Benoit/Jericho/Angle area basically cancels it's self out leaving us with Edge/Hart and Austin/Hogan. And there is no way Edge can deal with Austin or Hogan in their Primes. And just leave Hart vs. The Two Biggest Icons of all of Wrestling.


Austin & Hogan are The Survivors.
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  #19  
Old 02-20-2010, 12:09 AM
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Realistically, I don't deal with bullshit factors. No lightning bolts, no hit and runs, no anti-Hogan smark in the stands with an SMG.

Here is how I see it:

Team Canada is a very well versed and well rounded team. They each have very diverse skill sets that vary by the individual. They definitely have what it takes to win, and should not be overlooked just because of Hogan. However, USA should win here.

Michaels could trade off with any guy on Canada, with the exception of probably Benoit. He has beaten Hart in his prime, beaten Jericho at Wrestlemania, and beaten Edge in 2005. Granted, he has also lost to each of these guys, including Benoit, but this shows that Shawn would put up one hell of a fight before he goes down. I say trade-off, as he would either beat someone, then get eliminated due to fatigue, or the other way around.

Any problem Shawn would have with Benoit is easily solved by Kurt Angle. Angle is just as much a worker as Benoit and the two could tear any house down. However, when it comes down to it, Angle beats Benoit, as shown by both Wrestlemania 17 and the Royal Rumble in 2003. Angle trades with Benoit. That could be two down for each team.

Austin is perhaps just as much a threat as Hogan is here. He is a whoop ass machine, and can dish out more damage than anyone else in this match. Many will point to the Wrestlemania 13 matchup where Austin lost to Bret, however, Austin never tapped out to the sharpshooter. Ken Shamrock called for the bell when Austin passed out. This should be a non-factor here, as there will be someone in Austin's corner to break up the sharpshooter should it be applied. That match was also a war between the two, with Bret taking a hefty amount of damage himself before locking in the submission. Austin could easily trade with or simply beat anyone on team Canada.

Now we get to Hogan. Assuming three guys from each team are gone, who on Canada goes over Hogan in a one on one match? Not Bret. Not Benoit. Not Jericho. The only guy I'd give a shot is Edge actually. While many would call me crazy for this, I'd have to contradict myself slightly by calling Edge the "Lightning Bolt" of Team Canada. Simply put, he is a bullshit artist, pulling wins from his ass in the cheapest of fashions. Realistically though, he goes down to Hogan. So, I guess I agree with the "play the odds" strategy, as 99/100 times USA would win this match. It is all on the voter to decide if lightning strikes.

In my mind, I see it coming down to 2 vs 2, Bret/Edge vs Austin/Hogan. Austin/Hogan would eliminate Bret and then lightning would strike and Edge would somehow beat Austin. However, lightning doesn't strike twice, and there is no way Hogan goes down as well. USA wins.
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  #20  
Old 02-20-2010, 12:10 AM
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Hey guys. First post, heard about this place from my brother. Not really a follower of the current product, but a big fan of the older stuff, and I watched avidly all the way up until 2001.

Anyways, I'm assuming this tournament is being done "kayfabe" style, so I have to say I'm eminently confused by the voting here. How is Bret Hart getting so many votes? Bret Hart participated in 6 elimiation-style Survivor Series matches, and he was eliminated in 5 of them (re: he survived in 1 out of 6 attempts at this style of match). His only win was over a last-minute replacement Shawn Michaels (for Jerry Lawler) and three masked "Knights".

Meanwhile, this match seems, sadly, tailor-made for the Hulkster. I'm no Hogan fan, bt it's hard to deny that, kayfabe, he should win the match. He survived in 3 of his 4 forays into elimination style tag team matches. The one time he lost was when he was held outside by two enormous men, which Canada will not have at it's disposal. To top it off, his whole gimmick is about "surviving" and in his matches, he usually a beating, only to, inevitably, "Hulk Up", overcome huge odds, and win.

So, this match seems to play against Hart, and yet everyone seems to be voting for him. Is it because he's an Internet darling? I respect the Hitman a whole lot, but there's no way he should even be close with Hogan in this voting, and his record in this style of match backs me up. Hart is 1-5 when it comes to surviving. Hogan is 3-1.

I kept it pretty much to these two guys as it seems like that's where the main competition is, judging by the voting. I see Hulk Hogan as our sole survivor.
 


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