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View Poll Results: Kenta Kobashi vs Shawn Michaels, Ironman Match
Kenta Kobashi 46 48.94%
Shawn Michaels 48 51.06%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #11  
Old 01-25-2010, 03:21 PM
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I just cheacked Kenta Kobashis entire career lot's of five star matches no experience in Ironman matches where you need to use time to your advantage. I could see at the beggining Shawn getting his back side pounded but coming in and getting a cheap pin or a sweet chin music out of nowhere and pretty much ducking all of Kenta's manuevers considering at Wrestlemainia 25 Shawn took all four of Undertakers finishers and one more tombstone to finally be put down. Shawn Micheals for the win
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  #12  
Old 01-25-2010, 11:39 PM
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Just adding in that it's not as if HBK has never had a match go for over 20 minutes before. Everyone is quite intent on saying "Well he's only really been in an Ironman Match at Wrestlemania XII, so he can't really go". HBK can and has wrestled matches that have gone well over the 30 minute mark that is set my the stipulations in this match, and he's wrestled past the 60 minute mark on occasion also.

I'm not slinging him my vote just yet, but I just want to put a damper on the fact that he's going to be dead after 10 minutes and Kobashi won't be. He's drawn with both Kurt Angle and Bret Hart in Ironman matches, both considered to be some of the greatest wrestlers of all time. Then again, Kobashi is as an all time great as well.
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  #13  
Old 01-26-2010, 01:33 AM
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I am going to go with Michaels here. We can ignore actual ironman matches, and look at marathons. HBK went forty minutes with The Undertaker, took three tombstones, and was pinned once. What is Kobashi going to do to Michaels that Taker didn't? Are we now saying that Kobashi is more brutal, delivers more punishment, or hits harder than the best pure striker in the game?

If it's a thirty minute match, I say Michaels does his best Floyd Mayweather impression and gets on his bike for thirty minutes and sneaks a superkick in at the end to win 1-0.
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  #14  
Old 01-26-2010, 06:41 AM
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All the sneaking around Kobashi isn't going to do Michaels any favors because he runs the risk of being counted out and that will make Kobashi even madder and if he catches him once, it's all over. I would even throw out it out there that Kobashi may go the Lesnar route and use a chair or any other weapon to lose a fall just to weaken HBK up and work on him from there. Kobashi will get a pinfall victory and win overall. Ya'll make it seem like Kobashi is a jobber who won't even get a pin on HBK. I believe Angle got 1 or 2 in his 30-min iron man match with HBK five years ago.
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  #15  
Old 01-26-2010, 07:13 AM
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Firstly, am I the only person that read the description, this is a 30 minute match. Michaels has drawn both of the Iron Man matches he was in against similarly sized opponents. He has won against Giants, but I can't remember a decisive victory in a long match that he has had against a guy who is bigger, but not huge. Kobashi's stamina means that Michaels being smaller holds absolutely zero advantage, and I expect Kobashi would win this one in regulation time, something like 2-1, and go on to be guaranteed a medal match.
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  #16  
Old 01-26-2010, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by No Hype View Post
I am going with Michaels on this one. I have seen both of these men wrestle in person and if this match ever took place it could sell out the new cowboys stadium. Kobashi is no slouch but HBK has done the impossible and will continue to. All he has to do is slap on the figer-four leg lock and Kobashi's bad knees will make him tap.

Yes Shawn's back is shot but Kenta isn't exactly a spring chicken he has had as many surgeries has Shawn and Shawn's submission is designed to put pressure on the lower body which is Kenta's weak point.
I'd be hard pressed to find a match where Kobashi actually tapped. Also, I seriously doubt someone who came back to wrestle at the age of 40 after surviving kidney cancer won't have enough will to endure a figure-four leg lock. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Kobashi could hang with Michaels even without the use of his legs; Kobashi just flat-our wants it more, and he has shown this in almost every single match that he has ever partaken in.

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Originally Posted by The Underking View Post
I just cheacked Kenta Kobashis entire career lot's of five star matches no experience in Ironman matches where you need to use time to your advantage. I could see at the beggining Shawn getting his back side pounded but coming in and getting a cheap pin or a sweet chin music out of nowhere and pretty much ducking all of Kenta's manuevers considering at Wrestlemainia 25 Shawn took all four of Undertakers finishers and one more tombstone to finally be put down. Shawn Micheals for the win
Kobashi's taken just as much, if not more, punishment than Michaels took from The Undertaker at WM 25 in multiple matches. For proof, just go on ahead and look up Kobashi's match with Vader on 15 January 1999 (here I'll post it for you):






What would be considered an excessive amount of punishment and near-falls in WWE are the norm for guys like Kobashi. Also, you are technically correct in saying that Kobashi has never partaken in any Iron Man matches per se, but this doesn't mean that he hasn't participated in lengthy matches throughout his career. In fact, I'd hazard to guess that the average length of his matches is somewhere between 20 and 30 minutes; Kobashi matches lasting from 45 minutes to an hour are not a rarity.

Ultimately, except for multiple falls. there's no difference between an Iron Man match and a one fall match lasting anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour.

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Just adding in that it's not as if HBK has never had a match go for over 20 minutes before. Everyone is quite intent on saying "Well he's only really been in an Ironman Match at Wrestlemania XII, so he can't really go". HBK can and has wrestled matches that have gone well over the 30 minute mark that is set my the stipulations in this match, and he's wrestled past the 60 minute mark on occasion also.

I'm not slinging him my vote just yet, but I just want to put a damper on the fact that he's going to be dead after 10 minutes and Kobashi won't be. He's drawn with both Kurt Angle and Bret Hart in Ironman matches, both considered to be some of the greatest wrestlers of all time. Then again, Kobashi is as an all time great as well.
No one's saying that Michaels doesn't have what it takes to participate in an Iron Man match. What we're saying is that his opponent outmatches him in almost every way imaginable, and that what few edges Michaels does have over Kobashi are more than made up for with Kobashi's indomitable fighting spirit.

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I am going to go with Michaels here. We can ignore actual ironman matches, and look at marathons. HBK went forty minutes with The Undertaker, took three tombstones, and was pinned once. What is Kobashi going to do to Michaels that Taker didn't? Are we now saying that Kobashi is more brutal, delivers more punishment, or hits harder than the best pure striker in the game?

If it's a thirty minute match, I say Michaels does his best Floyd Mayweather impression and gets on his bike for thirty minutes and sneaks a superkick in at the end to win 1-0.
Kobashi is just as brutal, delivers just as much punishment, and hits just as hard as the Undertaker. I'd go so far as to say that Kobashi would beat The Undertaker on any single day save for the one on which Wrestlemania takes place.
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  #17  
Old 01-26-2010, 04:20 PM
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Wait one second poster above me your saying that Kobashi is as brutal as the undertaker when all of these people have been saying that it's because Kobashi is heavier is the current argument with stamina. While i did enjoy his matches how much does this guy wrestle i mean Undertaker's like 45 and wrestles a longer schedule then him fact.

Now who would you think put better matches two veterans yet one wrestles once evrey two months while one wrestles evrey other day i think both SHawn and Mark have better stamina.
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  #18  
Old 01-26-2010, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by The Underking View Post
Wait one second poster above me your saying that Kobashi is as brutal as the undertaker when all of these people have been saying that it's because Kobashi is heavier is the current argument with stamina. While i did enjoy his matches how much does this guy wrestle i mean Undertaker's like 45 and wrestles a longer schedule then him fact.

Now who would you think put better matches two veterans yet one wrestles once evrey two months while one wrestles evrey other day i think both SHawn and Mark have better stamina.
Kobashi has wrestled thirty minutes consisently his entire career and you say Shawn and the Undertaker have better stamina. When's the last time Shawn and Undertaker wrestled a match thirty minutes or over? It has been a while. Kobashi can handle everything Shawn will throw at him (which isn't much in my opinion) and will beat him in an iron man match. Shawn isn't going against some guy that is going to gas in ten minutes. He's going against one of the Japanese greats and that is a tough task no matter who you are.
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  #19  
Old 01-26-2010, 04:43 PM
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You never awnsewred my question but like i said im sure that if undertaker's career started in 1990 and his rise started 1995 he could probably still be in better shape. The last 30 minute match Undertaker had him normally i would do what evreybody does and frantically check the internet i remember that Shawn vs. Undertaker was 25 minutes. The TLC match was 29 so that counts or should. Then i noticed a big diffrence WWE shows have more then one people on it Smackdown and Raw try to present evreybody in 5-10 minute matches and the other wrestle Indy's. Also like i stated above you go doing one match evrey 2-3 days at 45 compared to training for a month and preforming one match.

Im not saying that Kobashi is bad. Im just saying the argument with him is sort of flawed saying that he's heavier so that Shawn won't be able to win but then going and saying Kobashi would beat Undertaker evrey single day whose heavier if we use that logic.

Now that I check it Shawn vs. Taker was 31 minutes

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  #20  
Old 01-26-2010, 04:49 PM
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Anyone who votes for Shawn Michaels here is full of shit and has probably never even seen Kobashi wrestle. That or they're just really, really fucking stupid. Shawn Michaels has been in a grand total of ONE hour-long match, a match which was 99% full of rest holds and which he couldn't even score one pinfall until AFTER the time limit expired.

Kenta Kobashi? Yeah, I can show you three HOUR LONG matches the man has competed in over the last fucking YEAR alone. Literally, anyone who questions this, feel free to PM me and I'll send you links to about 9000 different matches Kobashi has competed in that were up to and over an hour long, and not full of rest holds either, no, nonstop action hours that will keep you glued to the fucking screen. The man outweighs HBK, he is BY FUCKING FAR the better in-ring worker (anyone who wants to argue that, I will verbally fucking bitch slap you right now), there isn't a fucking chance in hell that HBK would win this contest, not a chance in fucking hell.

Seriously, I know 99.9% of you on this forum wouldn't know anything about Japanese wrestling if it kicked you in the fucking jaw, but do not vote in this match up if you know nothing about Kobashi (which clearly anyone who voted for HBK doesn't).

I challenge ANYONE to show me one facet of professional wrestling in which HBK is superior to Kobashi. Anything. Better worker? Kobashi. Better storyteller? Kobashi. Bigger draw? Kobashi. Better strength and conditioning? Kobashi. Literally, name it, Kobashi is superior.

I'm throwing down the gauntlet right now kids. I challenge any of you to attempt to argue HBK of having a chance in hell of winning this match. He has no chance, at all, whatsoever. This should be a fucking 100-0 squash in favor of Kobashi, and the only reason it isn't thus far is because most of you have never even seen a Kobashi match.

Vote for Kobashi, or you're just a fucking moron. Pretty simple. And this is coming from a person who has considered HBK one of his favorite wrestlers since I was six years old.
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