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  #1  
Old 02-07-2018, 06:31 PM
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Default Vince Steps Aside...

...of 205 Live. According to PWInsider.com, Vince McMahon is no longer making the decisions regarding 205 Live. The changes began with last week's episode, which featured new 205 Live General Manager Drake Maverick and kicked off the 16-man tournament that will end at WrestleMania 34 with the crowning of a new WWE Cruiserweight Champion.

The report alleges that Triple H is now overseeing 205 Live, he's the one making all the decisions and he has brought back some of the aspects of the WWE Cruiserweight Classic tournament, including the style and presentation of the wrestlers. Vince had personally worked with the Cruiserweight wrestlers to bring out their personalities to present them in a certain way but there has been more focus on the in-ring work under Triple H.

The report goes onto mention some of the various talk backstage in regards to 205 Live over the past few months. Chiefly, the talks have been about why 205 Live simply wasn't getting over the way Vince had hoped and expected. As I mentioned earlier, Vince believed that a character-driven show was the best way to get the brand over, which is Enzo Amore was brought over to be the top star of the brand. Enzo's arrival is said to have helped with viewership and buzz for the show but there were still people in the company that wanted to present the show like the Cruiserweight Classic was presented. Their feeling was that having the lighter echoing the guys from RAW and SmackDown was not going to showcase what made the cruiserweight talents unique, and it wasn't going to help 205 Live grow into its own brand, more than just a weekly WWE Network TV show.

The product we've seen over the last few weeks is said to be very much in line with the original plans for 205 Live before Vince became personally involved with the direction of the show and the development of the cruiserweight talents. The plan, according to the report, is to focus on rebuilding the brand by centering on strong athletic characters and strong in-ring competition.

In my opinion, 205 Live has been far better the past couple of weeks and for the first time in a really long time, I'm interested and excited to watch the show. I also agree with the notion that simply having the smaller guys parrot what's being done on Raw or SmackDown Live doesn't do anything to make the Cruiserweights stand out. When many fans think of a Cruiserweight/Junior Heavyweight/Light Heavyweight division, or whatever name you want to call it, they think of WCW's Cruiserweight Division that featured some of the best in-ring action you'd see on Monday nights, whether it was Raw or Nitro. While I'm still not exactly a fan of limiting wrestlers based on how much they weigh, I do have vastly more confidence in Triple H handling this than I had with Vince.
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  #2  
Old 02-07-2018, 07:01 PM
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Giving Vince McMahon all the credit in the world for building this company to where it is now, but in saying that he should step aside and let the kids run the place. Vince is losing his touch now. Don't know if it's age or just that he's stuck in the old days, but the fanbase has changed and Vince hasn't changed with it.

The fact that he twice put the top title on a part time wrestler, and watched the rating's on his flagship show sink to some of the lowest ever should have told him that. I also can't believe with the size of the roster the WWE has, we still have to watch the same matches week after week. No wonder wrestler are starting to get injured again. Some work like dogs, others are nohwere to be found.

I watched 205 Live when it first debuted and liked it. It quickly became just another hour of RAW to me and I stopped watching. Maybe it's time to take another look. The loss of Neville, whether the WWE wants to admit it or not but harsh. Especially when they lost him over someone like Enzo.

Hopefully HHH can turn the ship around. It won't happen overnight, but got my fingers crossed he can do it.
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:04 PM
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It's for the best. 205 live has no implications on the main product of the WWE. It's an extra, a spin-off. So why would Vince be bothered with that anyway? He already needs to oversee a large roster of talented superstars.

Great news. Maybe the cruiserweights will finally be able to unlock their full potential.

Rey Mysterio is also in talks with the WWE. Rey joining the new 205 division would be the icing on the cake. However the total great news would be Neville coming back.

Plus, if HHH can somehow connect 205 to NXT.. there are a lot of NXT guys that would do wonders in the division and lot of cruiserweights that could become the next faces of NXT.
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:55 PM
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Man I really hope this is a trickle down effect where he let's Triple H take over SD next then eventually Raw. The product needs a bit of a fresh overhaul writing wise and I think it'll thrive under Triple H/Steph. Especially Raw, for a three hour program you'd think they'd have ONE compelling storyline going on, but not really.
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  #5  
Old 02-07-2018, 11:18 PM
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As much as I hate to admit it, mainly because people give triple H way too much credit and seem to forget that his ego can be just as stubborn as Vince's at times, but I digressed. 205 really has been great, the last two weeks. The matches don't feel as formulated as they did in the past. Plus the addition of an active GM really adds credibility to the show. So far, i've enjoyed Mr. Maverick in his new role.

I like the changes so far, but one of their biggest problems that they must address are the dead crowds. The complete silence almost ruin the matches. I don't see what's the issue with having 205 live before Smackdown or if it leads to better crowds, I would be fine if 205 live was pre-taped at a separate venue.
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Old 02-08-2018, 02:42 AM
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In regards to whether 205 Live should be character-driven, or based on the in-ring product, I think both are vitally important.

I mean, yes, have them put on outstanding matches, and matches that are unique to cruiserweights and 205 Live.

But just as important is to make us care about the characters, and the storyline building.

I have always thought that a vital ingredient is not only the match itself, but why they are fighting and how they got there.

Crusierweights should be built with personalities different from one another, and make them stand out.

Most stars in WWE have been good in the ring AND on the mike. So I think both Vince and Triple H equally have valid things to offer in this regard.
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  #7  
Old 02-08-2018, 05:13 AM
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Here's the problem I see with this, while it might be beneficial for viewership of 205 live on the network, that's not what the crowd going to smackdown seem to want.

They want to see stars, not great wrestling. Case in point, Roderick strong vs hideo itami. Awesome match, i got to give credit to them, but nobody cared about them at all. They we're playing on their cellphone or doing other stuff waiting for the dark match. You put the same match in a NXT environment and they get the biggest reaction of the night.

I always thought that it would have been more beneficial for the 205 live brand if you took them out of the main roster environment and put them back in the NXT environment we're they would get great reactions every time. If you want to have a more sports feeling to your product, don't put it after 2 sports entertainment shows (smackdown and MMC) because you won't get any reaction from the fans for that type of wrestling from a crowd that came to see sports entertainment.

So until, HHH gets that WWE fans cares more about the whole presentation and not just the in ring performance, he won't be able to replace Vince permanently and this 205 live experiment is doom to fail even if you get only match of the year candidate.
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Old 02-08-2018, 09:25 AM
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If NXT is the experimental brand in the WWE portfolio of products, the Cruiserweight show should represent risk taking with both the in-ring product as well as the characters, storylines, etc.

Vince stepping aside is the right move, for no other reason than his roots are too deep in a heavyweight / sports entertainment type atmosphere. This direction simply doesn't work for the younger, lighter guys. The entire point of a show like this is to showcase their abilities that run completely counter to what's shown weekly on Raw/Smackdown, and even NXT to a degree.

After Vince's segueing out of the product, the next step should be to change the name. 205 Live really tells casual wrestling fans (and especially non-fans) nothing about what they're going to see if they tune in. While the more knowledgeable will get that 205 refers to the proposed weight limit of the competitors, I think it's foolish to erect such barriers as "cruiserweight" is more of a style definition than one concerned with weight restrictions. Truth be told I'm not sure what I would call the brand/show offhand, but it must be immediately representative of the competitors and action that I'm going to see.

My next step would be to transition the cruiserweights from a RAW / preshow afterthought to something completely separate and removed. While WCW gets credit for their cruiserweight division, ECW was showcasing those types of talents even before they were, giving guys like Eddie Guerrero and Dean Malenko main event spots. Naturally, I think Paul Heyman would be an excellent fit in developing and refining the current crop of cruiserweight talents and turning them into stars... initially within the confines of "the cruiserweight show", but potentially in a move up to NXT or even RAW/Smackdown. Bottom line is I believe their exposure on RAW actually hurts the brand and it's competitors more than it helps.

Finally, the brand needs a de facto star to give it notoriety and recognition in the early goings. While certainly a mouthpiece and personality, Enzo wasn't it... even before his brushes with trouble and eventual release. Rey Mysterio actually seems like a natural fit here, as he is known by even the most casual of wrestling fans and is still looked upon as a "top guy" amongst cruiserweights and their style. The trick is, you've got to turn him heel in a convincing manner, put the cruiserweight title on him, and have your best guy(s) chase after him for the belt. Again Paul Heyman can help in not only molding Rey as a heel, but bringing the younger guys up to look like serious competition for him and create compelling stories surrounding them.

tl,dr; Vince dropping the reins on 205 Live is ultimately a good thing, but the true growth of that brand will rely specifically on what happens afterwards.
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  #9  
Old 02-08-2018, 10:12 AM
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I would love to see 205 in the NXT Arena. WWE can still have the 205 match during Raw as more of a big feud builder that can be a preview of the 205 show on Wednesday.

I think that character development needs to be minimal. When WCW did the Cruiserweights they got very little mic time (Exclude Jericho) But they were able to tell a story in their matches. Promos were usually very short but got the point across. The fans were won over by the athleticism and great matches. I always said the CW had some of the best matches on Nitro, HANDS DOWN.

Also WWE needs to let these guys go out and do their stuff with no restrictions. Thats has been my problem with the CWD since it started. The moves just looked watered down, or they were not impactfull enough. I know they want to avoid injury but they know that what they do is high risk anyways, so why not let them go 100% balls out and put on a great match every time.

Once people recognize that 205 has turned more into a brand with great matches, the ratings will go up substantially.
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Old 02-08-2018, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
Here's the problem I see with this, while it might be beneficial for viewership of 205 live on the network, that's not what the crowd going to smackdown seem to want.

They want to see stars, not great wrestling. Case in point, Roderick strong vs hideo itami. Awesome match, i got to give credit to them, but nobody cared about them at all. They we're playing on their cellphone or doing other stuff waiting for the dark match. You put the same match in a NXT environment and they get the biggest reaction of the night.

I always thought that it would have been more beneficial for the 205 live brand if you took them out of the main roster environment and put them back in the NXT environment we're they would get great reactions every time. If you want to have a more sports feeling to your product, don't put it after 2 sports entertainment shows (smackdown and MMC) because you won't get any reaction from the fans for that type of wrestling from a crowd that came to see sports entertainment.

So until, HHH gets that WWE fans cares more about the whole presentation and not just the in ring performance, he won't be able to replace Vince permanently and this 205 live experiment is doom to fail even if you get only match of the year candidate.
I think it's less to do with crowd being not interested and more to do with the show being after Smackdown. 205 live would be hell of a more effective if it begins the night for the crowd. By the end of SD, they have pretty much seen all the big stars and exhausted. The crowd can certainly appreciate a well constructed match if it's before exhaustion sets in.
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