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  #11  
Old 01-30-2018, 06:46 PM
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Obviously, what else would it be about?.. Do you honestly think they give a shit about the women's division after 15 years when the same people are in charge?

Of course not.

Everything is happening right now because of Ronda Rousey.
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  #12  
Old 01-30-2018, 07:13 PM
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Both yes and no at the same time. As society has continued to progress in the western world it was only a matter of time before one of the biggest remaining pockets of absolute old school American carne like sexism was to be changed. They're 20 years late to the party and so are a majority of WWE only / Non-pro-wrestling fans. It's happening now either way so take it however you want. This is exactly the time it would have ever happened the only social climate it could ever be predicted in. If the NFL is being attacked and even UFC to a degree. WWE is definitely not going to be a stronghold for edgy fans.

It's theatre now both in and outside WWE more than ever. Nothing wrong with it being a high-intensity live performance. It's still really cool even if you want to belittle it by breaking it down and being meta like a lot of internet fans. It's entertaining and has intricate storylines that span a 24/7 schedule year round with endless possibilities and options. Wrestlers are more of entertainers than athletes because that is what makes or breaks you in the pro-wrestling business. With all this being said, entertainment is the industry most heavily under attack by advancing the narrative of minorities that have been underrepresented for years and years. So treating the women like they are mentally challenged and Stephanie being their mom congratulating them every other week on getting a contract in the WWE is an extremely effective business boost.

Look at Vince McMahons XFL press conference. Look at Shane McMahon's interactions with venues like Complex. Watch Triple HHH's entire last 5 years. Watch Stephanie McMahons entire last 2 years. They're not stupid and never have been. There is very genuine emotion going on, but at the same time there is always something underlying the methods.

There is also nothing wrong with this. The employees are happier. Business is doing better. Not good, but better. They are coming off better to the public. It's like a YouTube personality or a podcast. They might shill advertisements or sponsors, but that passion to do that career and the enjoyment they bring to fans is still their job. It's their job to entertain and make money. They're doing both at the same time while doing even more on top like charity. It's pretty standard and even admirable.
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  #13  
Old 01-30-2018, 08:47 PM
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Probably. PR is a large part of it. They are a huge business.... but, because they are a business, if it doesn't make money it won't last. Simple as that. If the Women are dedicated to their performances and given TIME to perform and a story to tell, they are more than capable. In face, that Asuka v Banks match last night on RAW is 100% MOTY worthy. That itself is bound to have added to their perception. Bottom line: even though its largely "PR" induced, doesn't mean it's can't be entertaining, fruitful and doesn't knock it's importance.
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  #14  
Old 01-30-2018, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pika View Post
Both yes and no at the same time. As society has continued to progress in the western world it was only a matter of time before one of the biggest remaining pockets of absolute old school American carne like sexism was to be changed. They're 20 years late to the party and so are a majority of WWE only / Non-pro-wrestling fans. It's happening now either way so take it however you want. This is exactly the time it would have ever happened the only social climate it could ever be predicted in. If the NFL is being attacked and even UFC to a degree. WWE is definitely not going to be a stronghold for edgy fans.

It's theatre now both in and outside WWE more than ever. Nothing wrong with it being a high-intensity live performance. It's still really cool even if you want to belittle it by breaking it down and being meta like a lot of internet fans. It's entertaining and has intricate storylines that span a 24/7 schedule year round with endless possibilities and options. Wrestlers are more of entertainers than athletes because that is what makes or breaks you in the pro-wrestling business. With all this being said, entertainment is the industry most heavily under attack by advancing the narrative of minorities that have been underrepresented for years and years. So treating the women like they are mentally challenged and Stephanie being their mom congratulating them every other week on getting a contract in the WWE is an extremely effective business boost.

Look at Vince McMahons XFL press conference. Look at Shane McMahon's interactions with venues like Complex. Watch Triple HHH's entire last 5 years. Watch Stephanie McMahons entire last 2 years. They're not stupid and never have been. There is very genuine emotion going on, but at the same time there is always something underlying the methods.

There is also nothing wrong with this. The employees are happier. Business is doing better. Not good, but better. They are coming off better to the public. It's like a YouTube personality or a podcast. They might shill advertisements or sponsors, but that passion to do that career and the enjoyment they bring to fans is still their job. It's their job to entertain and make money. They're doing both at the same time while doing even more on top like charity. It's pretty standard and even admirable.
Man you said it a lot better than I could've.

Personally, I don't really mind it being PR that much; but as long as they don't completely shove it in people's faces. The Women's Royal Rumble was great, keep that for future Royal Rumbles.

Women's Elimination Chamber on the other hand...I don't know.
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  #15  
Old 01-30-2018, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
is this just a big PR Move for WWE or do they truly cared about the female performers.
Yes and yes.

Quote:
So i went back a look at how they book the female since this whole Women's revolution started and Realize that it's probably is. If you look how the whole thing started, it was because of the fans backlash over a 15 seconds women's match on raw. So they went and started giving the women's more time on tv for a while and it got fans excited even if they way they did made no sense.
There were more factors at play than just a random match on Raw. First and foremost, the Women's Revolution owes a lot to Ronda Rousey's incredible success changing the way people view women in sports. She was headlining PPV's and drawing big numbers causing fans, myself included, to ask why WWE couldn't do the same with their women.

There was also the whole AJ Lee publicly calling out Stephanie on Twitter over WWE's treatment of female stars plus the NXT women tearing it up for months and creating a groundswell of excitement that eventually permeated the main roster.

Quote:
Then they went a had the first women's hell in the cell match with the build up not being on the performers themselves but on the fact that it was the first ever Hell in the cell for the woman's. In fact, you could have put anybody in that match and it wouldn't have made any difference because it wasn'T about the performers but about the historic moment. So it was a great match and they got lucky with it but that wasn't the important thing for them. The fact is they never did another one since.
To be fair, a women's HIAC is a HUGE deal and they simply treated it as such. It also fit the increasingly epic Sasha/Charlotte feud so no it couldn't have fit any other women's story going on at that time. There's only been one HIAC show since the women's version happened and there wasn't a women's feud last year that called for the Cell. Relax.

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Then they had the first ever women's ironman match, this one was a little bit more about building up Charlotte and Sasha was just a stepping stone to get Charlotte over as a megastar and the face of the division at the time. Again good match but did it really help anybody in the end.
The first Iron Woman match was at NXT Takeover between Bayley and Sasha so this is a moot point. However, the second Iron Woman match served as the blowoff to Sasha and Charlotte's feud. Also, you say it built up Charlotte while also saying it helped no one.

Quote:
Then you got a long period we're nothing really happened and they went back to the same old same old with the women's. You got the really short matches on TV, storylines that nobody could get behind and they killed so many performers along the way that it's a miracle that any of them are over right now.
The women regularly get multi-segment matches now. That sure as hell wasn't the case before the Revolution. Sure, they occassionally have short matches, but so do the men. In fact, you could apply everything in this paragraph to the men so if nothing else the women are finally on equal standing with them, for better or worse.

Also, outside of Bayley and to a lesser extent Nia Jax, what woman of worth has really been "killed"?

Quote:
So after that long stretch of time, They did the first ever Women's MITB match, which again never was about the performers involved in it but more about how historic the match was and again in the end, the result didn'T matter because they screwed up the ending of the first match and did a redo on the smackdown following the event and now it's pretty much the same as the guy we're the holder of the briefcase is a afterthought and look like a total jobber. So did it help the performers or did it help the company look better to shareholders? Will they go back to this next year? i truly doubt it with this being a dual brand PPV next year, the only way i could see them going back to it is if both MITB matches are dual brand next year.
When has any MITB ever been about the participants? Most are just tossed in as fodder with only one or two getting any sort of real spotlight. Again, it was basically treated the same way the men's version has always been.

Quote:
Then after this moment, they want back to status quo for a while until they had a reason to bring it back with the rumble and elimination chamber match and Stephanie being the face of both matches even through she wasn't a performer in the rumble and won't be in the chamber.
I mean, the ladies can't have history making matches every single week. Of course there's going to be wheel-spinning periods until something cool comes along. Just. Like. The. Men.

Stephanie being the face of everything...is irritating, I'll give you that.

Quote:
The build up for the rumble was horrible espcially since pretty much everybody except for Asuka had any build up to their characters going into the rumble. The build up was all about how historic this match was and never about the peoples in it. So watching it while it was a really good match, felt like just a midcard match and not as a important moment. The thing that made the whole thing even worst was the fact that they use the women'S rumble as a way to set up Stephanie and ronda rousey's program for mania maing the whole thing feel like an afterthought and did nothing for Asuka or any of the other performers in the match since after the show, all we are talking about is stephanie and ronda and not who won the first rumble match. To make matter worst, the opening segment on raw before Sasha banks came to Raw didn't help Asuka at all because they use her more as a way to announce the next first. So in the end, who cares really which championship Asuka will go for, they already made it cleared they don't really care about the character so why should we as fans.
The men's Rumble was poorly hyped as well. At least the ladies had the buzz of being new.

Asuka is the first-ever female Rumble winner. That's big no matter what you say and they treated her as such on Raw.

Quote:
In the end, while i truly enjoy what the women's are doing, i hate that they are put in a position that they shouldn't be put in just so the company can pat themselves on the back by saying that they treat the women performers the same way as the guy only when it help them. Thoses first shouldn't be forced and certanlly not use as a PR moves to make WWE look good. Was there a good reason to do a Women'S Rumble this year? Not really outside of making Stephanie look good and make the company look good by announcing the signing of Ronda Rousey. Is there a good reason to have the first ever Women's elimination chamber match? not really. This is just a PR move to make themselves look good because of what'S going on in the world right now. Will it be a good match? i would be surprise if it wasn't a good match but will it matter in the end? i doubt it.
You...hate that the women get more chances to shine because it makes WWE look better? Even if WWE didn't push them for the sole purpose of raising their stock, doing so would improve their image by default because it's just a super cool thing to do.

The women's roster is deep enough and talented enough for a Rumble. What reasons do you need to do a ladies EC other than "we have the enough capable women to do one so why not?"

Your overall complaint is the same as people who criticize celebrities for doing charitable things purely for publicity. That might be true for some of them, but it doesn't change the fact that they still helped out. I doubt the starving kid getting food from Brad Pitt would care that Brad only fed him to make himself look good. He still gets to eat.

Ultimately, all of this matters because it expands the scope of what women can achieve in WWE. I always felt bad for female fans wanting to become WWE superstars because there was so much of what they enjoyed would be held away from them because of their gender. That isn't the case anymore. They can be in ladder matches, Rumbles, HIAC, etc. Women wrestlers can literally do everything the guys do. That's awesome regardless of the reasoning behind it.
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  #16  
Old 01-30-2018, 11:06 PM
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But there always has to be a "first time", and if not now, then when do they do these matches?

Why should the Divas be kept out of Rumbles, Hell-In-A-Cells, MITBs etc? Hell, on my WWE video games I play Diva Ladder, HIAC, and MITBs all the time, and I would play a Woman's Rumble too, if it wasn't restricted to only being a "men's" match type on the game.

In fact, I think the women should have been doing these matches a long time ago. One thing TNA was ahead of the curve on, was how they used their Knockouts. Kharma had streetfights, Knockouts had cage and ladders matches. Hell, TNA Impact main-evented one night with Gail Kim v Taryn Terrell in a "Last-Woman-Standing" Match (a match that WWE have yet to do), and it was considered by many one of the matches of that year.

TNA Knockouts were doing more "hardcore" style matches, while WWE Divas weren't for the longest time. So I say "about time, what took you so long?" I remember when Victoria and Lita had a Cage Match one night on RAW years ago, and I wanted more of it.

Hey, the Woman's Rumble is the first time I have even seen WWE Divas going over the TOP rope. Before that, they had battle royals, where they eliminated if they went out by the middle rope. But even at the Rumble, look how many went over the top rope, landed on the apron, and then fell to the floor. Even now they are protecting them.

PR or not, I want more Divas in more match types. Why not? It creates more variety and interest. The Divas Revolution is about equality, so I say let them do many more of these matches. I look forward to it.
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  #17  
Old 01-31-2018, 12:03 AM
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You know if you asked the women who are a actually involved in these matches, they would probably say they are thrilled. It's about time that the women get more than a 2 minute filler match on RAW and SD. Personally I like it and as long as they aren't put into situations where someone could get hurt badly, then why not. Let them have a Royal Rumble, Elimination Chamber or a Ladder match. The girls have stepped up and proved themselves capable at every turn. Good for them.
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  #18  
Old 01-31-2018, 12:12 AM
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PR or not, but i think Stephanie really wanted Revolution to happen. Vince get his Press, girls get much more time and attention, Ronda Rousey will give them much more eyeballs, because she is worldwide known name. Why complain and find "dirty" reasons, even if they exist, if women finally get a real chance to shine? Can you just enjoy the matches?
I think their RR match was two heads above male's one, and not just because of all big names from the past, but because of pure in ring action as well.
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  #19  
Old 01-31-2018, 12:27 AM
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I don't think this is a pr move, and what I mean is that they're not doing it purely for the sake of getting good pr.


Years ago, the big w had no real business saying that they had a women's (divas...goddamn) division. Whereas now? Damn good matches. The time wasn't right to start revolution then, but it's here and doing well.
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  #20  
Old 01-31-2018, 02:18 AM
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I agree that this Women's revolution is just a PR move and is getting pushed down our throats. That promo where Stephanie announced the Women's Rumble was awful but yet they have to replay it make it into video packages and have a bunch of sound bites of Stephanie and the Women hugging and cheering. It's been pretty much a similar build up with all these first ever Women's matches with very little of the build being about characters and storylines.
Don't get me wrong I love women's wrestling and am glad they giving it more time. I had my doubts about the Women Rumble but overall I think it was good and delivered on a high level. But I just hope we get more this year rather then them just raving about the Women's Revolution and first time ever matches. Every week it seems like it's a multi women tag or they have a singles match and they try to cram all the Women in one segment with them playing cheerleader and doing nothing significant.
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