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  #1  
Old 12-11-2017, 03:45 AM
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Default Has Raw gotten into a lull?

I'm aware this is the Holiday Season and Monday Night Raw isn't usually exciting every single one of the 52 weeks a year.

I'm also aware they've done a few novel things, like the Jason Jordan illegitimate son angle, the influx of NxT wrestlers Paige/Absolution, "woken" Matt Hardy, etc.

But I wanted to ask you guys your thoughts about this, for various reasons.

First is that this is a weird time where Raw doesn't have anything to progress toward, from Survivor Series until the Royal Rumble, which is exactly 10-11 weeks.

Back in 2005, Eric Bischoff introduced the New Year's Revolution PPV for Raw in early January and we had an elimination chamber, and then another one in 2006, and in 2007 you had the DX-Rated RKO feud as a selling point for that show. Then they did away with Unibrand PPVs so Raw and Smackdown both would progress from Armageddon in December to the Royal Rumble.

Now the thing is, what do you really do with all that time between PPVs with these Raw wrestlers?

There's only so many times you can have the titles switch hands, which brings me to

Two:-Absent Universal Champion.

There was a time when Kurt Angle was champion back in late-2000 and Austin had returned and begun feuding with Rikishi and HHH.

Every other week on Raw there would be a #1 contender's match for Angle's WWF title and the winner would go on to face him for the title on SMACKDOWN that very week. One such person was Austin. Angle vs Austin, on Smackdown.

In fact, such classics happened on TV so frequently that it's a joke, including Austin vs Angle, Rock vs Angle, and more.

More importantly, the atmosphere, the whole period was so exciting. Would Angle finally lose his title? Would Austin win? And everybody would follow Raw and Smackdown and those matches were better than most Wrestlemania feuds nowadays, or most PPV feuds.

Think about it and let it sink in-Angle defended the title in a singles match against Austin, Rock, HHH all in the span of one month, and then went on to compete in the notorious 6-man HIAC. That's how exciting it was.

And now we have a Universal Champion like Lesnar who didn't deliver against Rollins(as WWE WHC), against Ambrose, against Joe, or Strowman. Moreover, he doesn't even care to show up every month.

Personally, I'd prefer a scenario like Dec 2000 where who would win that month's WWF title match was as exciting as a Wrestlemania main event.

In the absence of a Universal Champion, all the focus goes on the champions you have, which brings me to

Three:-Reigns just barely won the IC title a few weeks ago so I can't say the "IC title scene" was exactly bursting before he won, nor it is right now. It's going to take a while.

Similarly, there's only so many times you can have Ambrose and Rollins trade the tag titles with Sheamus and Cesaro.

After all, who else have been contending for those, and is there anybody on the horizon really?

Four:-The seeds for the main feuds for Wrestlemania have been sown.

I'm talking about Kurt Angle and HHH, unless they have intended for a Strowman-HHH match for Mania.

And also, Brock Lesnar vs Roman Reigns seems like a lock, probably even "winner take all" champion vs champion(yes I know it must be a nightmare for those who loathe Reigns)

But again, all of this takes time, it'll be a slow burn until Wrestlemania.

So after considering all these factors, do you agree Raw has gotten into a lull, there's hardly anything exciting happening and they've still got a long time until Rumble comes?

Can they make Raw any exciting in coming weeks and if so, how?

What do you look forward to watching on Raw each week these days?

Last edited by RomanfreakinReigns : 12-11-2017 at 04:11 AM.
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2017, 12:43 PM
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They've painted themselves into a corner with wanting Reigns vs. Lesnar for title at WM. Not really excited at all to see that headline Mania but even dumber was to put IC title on Reigns so soon. If they wanted to do champion vs champion, they could'vehad him win it at Elimination Chamber. By having him as IC title Champ, it handcuffs all the rest of the roster in not having any chance to win a title since Lesnar has had Univ. title on lock.

They should've had Balor, Joe, Hardy, Rollins, or someone else win that IC title from Miz. I don't disagree that it needed to come off of the Miz as he wasn't doing anything with it, but should've went on someone else so they could setup a feud for it. Would've been a great way to build back up Balor or give Joe a title to dominate.

The main thing is if we pretty much know that they wanna do a champion vs champion with Lesnar and Reigns at WM, then what's the point of open challenges and IC title matches for the fans? We already know Reigns will retain the title till Mania
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2017, 03:37 PM
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The problem is yet again booking. Yes I've said that a thousand times before, but it's still true.

WWE cannot consistently write compelling storylines. Look at the feud between the Shield and Cesaro, Sheamus, and Joe. Every week it's the same stuff. Some sort of singles or tag match. Heels interfere. Faces make the save. One group gets the upper hand and stands tall. That's just lazy and predictable, and it results in a stale and uninteresting product.

I understand Brock has the Universal Title held up, but they could still come up with something better than what we've gotten the last four months.

Like KB said, would it kill them to come up with something different?
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  #4  
Old 12-12-2017, 05:01 PM
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I feel like we're pretty much armchair quarterbacking this right now. Is the product being boring, Sometimes. But in the end i feel it'S more the signs of the new era of wrestling then anything else that's hurting them. The fact that they have to produce a 3 hours tv show everyweek where they don't have the luxury of doing squash matches anymore is hurting them big time and it's been hurting them since they change the format of booking in 97.

If they could go back to put enhancement matches on Raw or just use one hour of meaningless matches they had more freedom to concentrate themselves to write compelling storylines for the upper card guys and at the same time give a chance to everybody else.

The fact is, they already have the mania card booked and they have a general plan on how they are going to set it up but in the mean time, their stuck in this weird place where they can't started booking anything for the Rumble because of the holiday season and the fact that nobody really watch wrestling during the holiday especially since raw falls on christmas and new year'S day this year so they can do anything really special for those 2 shows. so i'm guessing that next week will get the start of whatever they have plan for lesnar at the rumble and then after the holiday they will continue the build up.

Normally, they know when they're down time is so they get lazy during those periods (september through the end of october and the holiday season) and then things picks up during mania season. While it might hurt them to already have the main matches for mania already booked, i feel the way they get to thoses matches will be interesting even if it's matches that the IWC aren't to excited about .
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  #5  
Old 12-13-2017, 01:04 AM
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Raw has sucked ever since the Shield got back together, Kane being back on TV and in a main storyline isn't helping either.
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  #6  
Old 12-13-2017, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
I feel like we're pretty much armchair quarterbacking this right now. Is the product being boring, Sometimes. But in the end i feel it'S more the signs of the new era of wrestling then anything else that's hurting them. The fact that they have to produce a 3 hours tv show everyweek where they don't have the luxury of doing squash matches anymore is hurting them big time and it's been hurting them since they change the format of booking in 97.

If they could go back to put enhancement matches on Raw or just use one hour of meaningless matches they had more freedom to concentrate themselves to write compelling storylines for the upper card guys and at the same time give a chance to everybody else.
May be they SHOULD go back to putting enhancement matches, I feel.

Not every match on Raw has to be a squash or enhancement, but quite a few.

The reason for that, I feel is there is hardly any mystique left in any character or performer when they're on a show every week and when they face each other 4-5 times in a span of 6 months just on TV, and that's excluding their PPV encounters.

For example, Sheamus vs Seth Rollins this week happened for the 4th or 5th time just on Raw, and that's not including their tag team bouts.

Samoa Joe vs Dean Ambrose was of course a first-timer, but I think it too will happen 4-5 times in meaningless Raw matches.

So I think it'd make much more sense if Joe squashed some cruiserweights or tag teams in a handicap match for most of Raws, and his matches against Ambrose, Reigns or Rollins should be treated more like a PPV deal or a once-in-a-blue-moon rare Treat, if they happen on Raw.

Interestingly, Roman Reigns faced Cesaro only for the second time ever on Raw, and yet they've been on the same show for 5 years since Reigns' debut in 2012. Last time they faced off was a WWE championship tournament/Survivor Series qualifying match on Raw back in 2015, the finals of which was ultimately won by Roman and Sheamus cashed in on him, if you remember.

And by the way, Raw's tag team division totally sucks doesn't it!?

There's Anderson and Gallows in a backstage segment and the feeling is, "who cares?"

It's the same old same old in Sheamus&Cesaro dominating the division and no novel matchups.

Last edited by RomanfreakinReigns : 12-13-2017 at 08:26 AM.
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  #7  
Old 12-13-2017, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RomanfreakinReigns View Post
May be they SHOULD go back to putting enhancement matches, I feel.

Not every match on Raw has to be a squash or enhancement, but quite a few.

The reason for that, I feel is there is hardly any mystique left in any character or performer when they're on a show every week and when they face each other 4-5 times in a span of 6 months just on TV, and that's excluding their PPV encounters.

For example, Sheamus vs Seth Rollins this week happened for the 4th or 5th time just on Raw, and that's not including their tag team bouts.

Samoa Joe vs Dean Ambrose was of course a first-timer, but I think it too will happen 4-5 times in meaningless Raw matches.

So I think it'd make much more sense if Joe squashed some cruiserweights or tag teams in a handicap match for most of Raws, and his matches against Ambrose, Reigns or Rollins should be treated more like a PPV deal or a once-in-a-blue-moon rare Treat, if they happen on Raw.

Interestingly, Roman Reigns faced Cesaro only for the second time ever on Raw, and yet they've been on the same show for 5 years since Reigns' debut in 2012. Last time they faced off was a WWE championship tournament/Survivor Series qualifying match on Raw back in 2015, the finals of which was ultimately won by Roman and Sheamus cashed in on him, if you remember.

And by the way, Raw's tag team division totally sucks doesn't it!?

There's Anderson and Gallows in a backstage segment and the feeling is, "who cares?"

It's the same old same old in Sheamus&Cesaro dominating the division and no novel matchups.
Completely agree with you on this, That's what made wwe superstars feel special before the attitude era when they started booking star vs star in every match on raw and they keep doing this since then. If you have a top guy like Samoa Joe just go through somebody like a heath Slater or just bring in a enhancement talent and he goes through it and then have who ever he's feuding with and come out, not necessarily for a brawl but to tease something then the feud become more memorable then just have them wrestled each other every week.

As far as the tag division again you right, look at the division, it's pretty much the bar and the shield right now. All the other teams are jokes or have so little focus on them that you forget they exist. I saw heath Slater and rhino on main event Last week and for the life of me, I completely forgot they existed until their match started. Same goes for gallows and Anderson.
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  #8  
Old 12-13-2017, 10:57 AM
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Completely agree with you on this, That's what made wwe superstars feel special before the attitude era when they started booking star vs star in every match on raw and they keep doing this since then. If you have a top guy like Samoa Joe just go through somebody like a heath Slater or just bring in a enhancement talent and he goes through it and then have who ever he's feuding with and come out, not necessarily for a brawl but to tease something then the feud become more memorable then just have them wrestled each other every week.

As far as the tag division again you right, look at the division, it's pretty much the bar and the shield right now. All the other teams are jokes or have so little focus on them that you forget they exist. I saw heath Slater and rhino on main event Last week and for the life of me, I completely forgot they existed until their match started. Same goes for gallows and Anderson.
As for "squash" matches against nobodies: You could get away with that on "Wrestling Challenge" or "Championship Wrestling" back in the day. You pull that on Raw or SmackDown, especially a 3 Hour Raw in the first hour, and a lot of people will turn that dial. Even though it would HELP in storylines, people are not interested in seeing Samoa Joe wrestle Stingray11214, Braun Stroman wrestle Dagger Dias, or the Bludgeon Brothers wrestling Jack Hammer and Slyfox. There is too much caring on ratings and ad buys to do straight squashes.

What you do have is a Septuagenarian who still thinks he is back in 1985, and is trying to look for that "New Hulk Hogan", writing and re-writing complete shows, even as the show is on air. Yes, you need jobbers. Heath Slater is a perfect example. But, there is too much money invested in people to make more jobbers. 30 years ago, James Ellsworth would be on TV for as long as he is able. Not anymore. As long as you have chaos in Creative, nothing will change.
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  #9  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:05 PM
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Yet another thread pining after the good ole days of Austin, the Rock, Angle, HHH, 'Taker, Kane, and so on. Listen, and it really hurts me to say this: We're never going to have a period like the late 90's early 00's in wrestling again. EVER! Listen, this isn't me jumping down the OP's throat because I completely agree with him. Raw is in a lull. The thing is, though, that's it's been in a lull for years now. IMO, Raw hasn't been exciting since Punk left. Don't get me wrong, it's had it's weeks where it's been fantastic. A Goldberg appearance here, a Rock show up there, a Lesnar appearance here. It hasn't been consistently exciting since Punk left.

So people ask, "What's the problem?". Well, there's a lot of problems. One of the biggest problems for wrestling today is us. Yes, the IWC is a big problem. First of all, we can never ever be taken by surprise again because we know everything that's going to happen from reading online. Also, we're never satisfied. Even when WWE does something truly great we're online bitching about it. So how can we ever be satisfied when we're unable to be satisfied? Second is that the WWE has no competition. They're the biggest wrestling company in the world and they know it. Back then, they were competing for viewers and it made everyone all the better for it. WWE will probably never face serious competition again and while they might be happy because they know they're going to make all the money for the rest of their lives, their work is seriously going to suffer because of it.

So, is Raw in a lull. Yes. As a matter of fact, the whole of WWE is in a lull. You know what, I'd rather watch WCW near the end of it's run than I would watch Raw or Smackdown right now and folks, that's not good.
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  #10  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:24 PM
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As for "squash" matches against nobodies: You could get away with that on "Wrestling Challenge" or "Championship Wrestling" back in the day. You pull that on Raw or SmackDown, especially a 3 Hour Raw in the first hour, and a lot of people will turn that dial. Even though it would HELP in storylines, people are not interested in seeing Samoa Joe wrestle Stingray11214, Braun Stroman wrestle Dagger Dias, or the Bludgeon Brothers wrestling Jack Hammer and Slyfox. There is too much caring on ratings and ad buys to do straight squashes.
Yet when They do it with the bludgeon brothers on smackdown, it's mostly week one of the highest rated segment on smackdown. When they we'Re doing it with Strowman last year, that segment did very well in the ratings. I'm not saying just doing squash matches during the whole hour but when put in a strategic place on the show, it makes a lot of difference and help beuild a character. If it wasn't for squash matches, Strowman wouldn't be at the level he is today. So saying that a lot of peoples aren't interested in seeing straight up squash matches is saying a lot, if you do one or two with the right characters fans will watch it.
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