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Arcade vBookie

View Poll Results: Who was the better WWE Champion?
Jinder Mahal 12 31.58%
Roman Reigns 22 57.89%
Neither 4 10.53%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 11-24-2017, 10:59 PM
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You've got to be joking. Is this really even a question?

Roman Reigns is the better World Heavyweight Champion. Fans may not like how forced his push is but at least the guy is believable as a top tier contender. Roman Reigns was the enforcer of The Shield, one of the most popular factions in years. Jinder Mahal was the guy who couldn't even fit in to 3MB. He went from jobbing to other jobbers, to suddenly getting a random push straight to the World Heavyweight Championship in hopes that he would generate fan interest in India. The guy was never believable in the slightest as a World Champion. I'm not the biggest Reigns supporter around here, however even I can tell you he is infinitely better than Jinder.
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  #12  
Old 11-25-2017, 01:03 AM
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Roman with ease.

There are some people who will talk about how much Jinder improved and all that and they aren't wrong. The issue is that if you start with a shit sandwich and put a piece of ham and cheese on in, it still contains shit. That is what they did with Jinder. For the record, Jinder in 3MB was great. 3MB was great in general. I didn't even hate Jinder when he came back all roided up and got a few wins here and there. The issue is that Jinder is about as bland as you can get. Nothing about him stands out. Throwing the Singh brothers in with him didn't improve him. He cuts the same promo each week about being Indian and being the Maharajah, wrestles the same match each PPV, and manages to get people to sit on their hands the entire time. He is so average it physically hurts me to watch him. If I wasn't feeling those stomach pains from watching him wrestle, I'd fall asleep because his matches are so predictable. He gets some offense early, starts to get in trouble, the face starts to make their comeback, the Singh brothers run distraction, and his shitty cobra clutch slam gets the pin after about ten minutes. It's how each match played out. The best part of his entire reign was when Orton nearly killed the Singh brothers throwing them onto tables.

When Roman has a match, it feels like a big deal. No one on the roster, save maybe Cena, has that aura. Each match Roman is in feels like a big fight. They are usually fairly entertaining as well. That alone makes him better than Jinder.
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  #13  
Old 11-25-2017, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dagger Dias View Post
You've got to be joking. Is this really even a question?

Roman Reigns is the better World Heavyweight Champion. Fans may not like how forced his push is but at least the guy is believable as a top tier contender. Roman Reigns was the enforcer of The Shield, one of the most popular factions in years. Jinder Mahal was the guy who couldn't even fit in to 3MB. He went from jobbing to other jobbers, to suddenly getting a random push straight to the World Heavyweight Championship in hopes that he would generate fan interest in India. The guy was never believable in the slightest as a World Champion. I'm not the biggest Reigns supporter around here, however even I can tell you he is infinitely better than Jinder.
Jinder DID do something important though... he reset the concept of anyone on the roster being just two wins away from the World title... for years the title pictures were so boring and predictable and it seemed that lower tier talent were well out of the mix. Now, like Jinder or not, even a lower tier guy can get an upset contender match win and take the title and it not look out of place or dumb. Like it or not, it also had a business logic to it, which many don't like to accept when it comes to who gets pushed. However India pans out, WWE IS bigger there now because they made this move.

The reign itself probably was marginally better than Chris Jericho's first, in that he clearly had more of "the machine" behind him and didn't have Triple H manuvering against him backstage... but was nowhere near as good as JBL's reign, who was the last guy to really get "this" push.

Reigns suffered from being forced down the fans throats, and unlike Cena when he was he didn't have the "likeability" that allowed people to just accept it. As far back as Cena winning his first title, some hated the idea... but they did the debut with Jericho on the Highlight Reel and many got behind it, had they realised that 13 years later he's in danger of breaking Flair's record they'd have been horrified...

Reigns doesn't have that, people simply HATE him with the belt, they might hate Jinder, but it's his job to be hated. Reigns can't get people to accept him and Vince can't force that, however many times he's tried. That they've had to bring The Shield back and give him the IC title sums up Reigns' future. He'll have to challenge Brock as IC champ.

If I really had to choose, on balance I go with Jinder... purely because he filled the brief. He got the company over in India, did a reasonable job as the heel champ and didn't (that we know about) screw up. Of course part of me suspects that Jinder dropping the strap was wellness related, and they're not saying so as not to damage the India tour (as it would be a massive scandal there) and if that came to be, I'd veer back to Reigns. But as it stands, Reigns failed, Jinder didn't.
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  #14  
Old 11-25-2017, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post
Jinder DID do something important though... he reset the concept of anyone on the roster being just two wins away from the World title... for years the title pictures were so boring and predictable and it seemed that lower tier talent were well out of the mix. Now, like Jinder or not, even a lower tier guy can get an upset contender match win and take the title and it not look out of place or dumb. Like it or not, it also had a business logic to it, which many don't like to accept when it comes to who gets pushed. However India pans out, WWE IS bigger there now because they made this move.

The reign itself probably was marginally better than Chris Jericho's first, in that he clearly had more of "the machine" behind him and didn't have Triple H manuvering against him backstage... but was nowhere near as good as JBL's reign, who was the last guy to really get "this" push.

Reigns suffered from being forced down the fans throats, and unlike Cena when he was he didn't have the "likeability" that allowed people to just accept it. As far back as Cena winning his first title, some hated the idea... but they did the debut with Jericho on the Highlight Reel and many got behind it, had they realised that 13 years later he's in danger of breaking Flair's record they'd have been horrified...

Reigns doesn't have that, people simply HATE him with the belt, they might hate Jinder, but it's his job to be hated. Reigns can't get people to accept him and Vince can't force that, however many times he's tried. That they've had to bring The Shield back and give him the IC title sums up Reigns' future. He'll have to challenge Brock as IC champ.

If I really had to choose, on balance I go with Jinder... purely because he filled the brief. He got the company over in India, did a reasonable job as the heel champ and didn't (that we know about) screw up. Of course part of me suspects that Jinder dropping the strap was wellness related, and they're not saying so as not to damage the India tour (as it would be a massive scandal there) and if that came to be, I'd veer back to Reigns. But as it stands, Reigns failed, Jinder didn't.
By what measure did Jinder get the company over in India?

I largely agree with your first point. It has been a long time since we got a truly out of left field title challenger, let alone one who actually won. Jinder's run does bring some of that unpredictability back. I also get that certain guys are going to be pushed for corporate reasons, and on the surface pushing someone of Indian heritage when you are trying to break into that market is fine. They are in the business of making money and putting on a good front after all, and India has a population north of a billion, so there is opportunity there.

That aside, there is no evidence to suggest that Jinder increased the WWE's popularity in India. I'm not going to touch on how TV ratings were down during his run, I'm focused only on his ability to bring in fans in the Indian market and by all accounts he didn't. Aside from the two or three Indian posters here who say that most fans would rather see the traditional stars as opposed to Jinder, there is the big red mark that WWE had to cancel the second night of the Indian Tour due to poor ticket sales. Yeah, his win got some coverage at first but by all reports there has been no spike in merch revenue or Network subscriptions. According to Forbes, their Network subs in the Indian market went up just .3% during his run, and merch sales went up 6%, which was only half the increase from same quarter last year. So I truly don't see how you or anyone can say his title run was a success.
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  #15  
Old 11-25-2017, 08:41 AM
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Seriously???

Roman was built up as a Main Eventer over time. Mahal went from jobber to World Champ on Smackdown. This post doesn't make sense. Mahal could've made this a debate if he'd had a slow build but being portrayed weak when he had a size advantage on every opponent. C'mon???
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  #16  
Old 11-25-2017, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Yaz View Post
By what measure did Jinder get the company over in India?

I largely agree with your first point. It has been a long time since we got a truly out of left field title challenger, let alone one who actually won. Jinder's run does bring some of that unpredictability back. I also get that certain guys are going to be pushed for corporate reasons, and on the surface pushing someone of Indian heritage when you are trying to break into that market is fine. They are in the business of making money and putting on a good front after all, and India has a population north of a billion, so there is opportunity there.

That aside, there is no evidence to suggest that Jinder increased the WWE's popularity in India. I'm not going to touch on how TV ratings were down during his run, I'm focused only on his ability to bring in fans in the Indian market and by all accounts he didn't. Aside from the two or three Indian posters here who say that most fans would rather see the traditional stars as opposed to Jinder, there is the big red mark that WWE had to cancel the second night of the Indian Tour due to poor ticket sales. Yeah, his win got some coverage at first but by all reports there has been no spike in merch revenue or Network subscriptions. According to Forbes, their Network subs in the Indian market went up just .3% during his run, and merch sales went up 6%, which was only half the increase from same quarter last year. So I truly don't see how you or anyone can say his title run was a success.
The thing with the fact that they had to cancelled the second show of the tour as really nothing to do with Jinder, like it was reported i think from the wrestling observer, It's just the fact that the mentality isn'T like it is here as far as paying to go see show. They mostly don't pay to go see shows down there since most entertainment and sporting events are payed for by the country itself if i remember the report correctly so even if Jinder is a big deal in india and from some of the pictures and video's release from WWE and other sources, he seems to be pretty over down there, Their not going to pay to see a WWE event because it's not something that'S in them.

When they did the smae things with Tiger ali singh in the 90'S and Khali in the early 2000's and that was the same roadblock they faced, as over as these guys were to the indians fans, they couldn't get them to show up to their events because the fans had to pay and that'S not in their nature to pay to see a show.
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  #17  
Old 11-25-2017, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
The thing with the fact that they had to cancelled the second show of the tour as really nothing to do with Jinder, like it was reported i think from the wrestling observer, It's just the fact that the mentality isn'T like it is here as far as paying to go see show. They mostly don't pay to go see shows down there since most entertainment and sporting events are payed for by the country itself if i remember the report correctly so even if Jinder is a big deal in india and from some of the pictures and video's release from WWE and other sources, he seems to be pretty over down there, Their not going to pay to see a WWE event because it's not something that'S in them.

When they did the smae things with Tiger ali singh in the 90'S and Khali in the early 2000's and that was the same roadblock they faced, as over as these guys were to the indians fans, they couldn't get them to show up to their events because the fans had to pay and that'S not in their nature to pay to see a show.
Being an Indian, I never knew this. SPOILER. It isn't like this. Khali is still headlining sellout shows with his own promotion. So, stop saying as if people don't come out tp such shows. WWE has had sell out shows in the recent times. And this time, even the one show isn't sold out yet. Because rarely people care about Jinder Mahal. Just ask a random person here. He will know John Cena and even Roman Reigns. But Jinder Mahal? Who? That's the reaction. Jinder isn't a big deal in India. I've told you many times but you continue to state that he's damn big in India. And I know that you will continue. Because you just want to advocate Jinder's boring reign. And no, people don't go to shows paid by Government. Why would Government pay? People pay and watch. Do you seriously believe these things or just pick randomly whatever you want to?
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  #18  
Old 11-26-2017, 02:05 AM
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Roman made me stop watching Wrestling for 2 years.

Jinder made me stop watching Smackdown for a few months.

Romans entire story was about Being pushed against all odds, with the WWE Audience booing the heck out of him, making his Underdog push with Corporate literally pushing him to the title completely unbearable. Seeing the Charisma vacuum week in and week out made me get bored of the product quicker than anyone since maybe The Miz's Title run. What was worse, They kept rehashing it too.

Jinder's title reign existing just to push into an Indian Market is a rehash of Khali, it fails so hard, when you see jobbers winning titles and the usual "Singh Brothers interfere, Yawn" every single month. None of Jinder's matches seemed any good... the Punjabi Prison being the worst match I've seen since Warrior vs Hogan HH '98. AJ got a good match out of Jinder, but he was pulling it all.

my vote has to go neither, they both had such lousy runs that hurt the titles, brands and company so much, in order to push Insane Vince's motives instead of the 2 options that work, Compelling story, or What the Fans want. Fans memeing Jinder to win was funny for about 5 minutes until it happened.
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  #19  
Old 11-26-2017, 06:33 AM
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I've lived in India myself and people DO pay for shows... however, it would be wrong to say "they cancelled it so Jinder failed..." when the reality is WWE is struggling to fill arenas IN THE US! with it's talent. When the tickets are still relatively expensive for many Indian people, saying they "don't support the champ they were given" is wrong, many just have to make choices and while seeing WWE is a cool thing, it's not essential.

Where WWE DID do well is appeasing the Indian broadcasters, THAT was the purpose of Jinder, the tour was simply icing where they could make some money back. In signing a large TV deal, they had to make sure there was something for the Indian fan on their show, Jinder delivered that. It's no coincidence that the next TV deal to end is gonna be the Sky deal in the UK, and lo and behold, there's a UK division in the offing, more Brit talents than ever floating around and seemingly the top one who walked is now back in the fold...

TV deals are cash that WWE needs for its turnover and numbers, the last batch a few years back were well down...so the Indian deal helps claw some of that back. The next UK deal will be VERY difficult for them as Sky has lost a lot of viewers to the Network for its PPV's. There's less incentive than ever for them to keep WWE and with their recent restructure of channel's, not as clear cut a place for them. It's realistic RAW and Smackdown could be gone from Sky this time around as they will undoubtedly play hardball with Vince.

Last edited by THTRobtaylor : 11-26-2017 at 06:35 AM.
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  #20  
Old 11-26-2017, 09:59 AM
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You can't even compare. Every match Roman had as champ were good/great. Facing off with the likes of Styles, Sheamus, Rollins. His rivalry was AJ Styles was arguably the best of last year, The Sheamus rivalry was the only good rivalry the company had at the time and was the only reason people were tuning in at that time, The 'THE Guy' catchphrase was catchy as well. Reigns' rivalry with Rollins was rushed (laregly due to the suspension.) However, the match delivered big time despite of which. I'm of the opinion of despite the short reigns, Reigns was an underrated champ.

Jinder Mahal improved a little bit and no longer feels like a joke, but I'd still consider him one of the worst WWE Champions of all-time, only beating Sheamus, Dean Ambrose, and Rey Mysterio in the modern era. His only anywhere near good match was with AJ Styles, a guy who it's literally impossible to have a bad match with, arguably the greatest in ring performer in the history of the business. Jinder's feuds have all been horrible, can't blame Orton because he actually tried to make it good odly enough. The Nakamura feud is probably the worst I've ever seen. His mic work has improved greatly I will say, but in the early stages it seemed as if he was whispering into the mic. I want to see Jinder make it, I really do. I was probably one of the only people who felt he deserved the title due to his hard work and dedication. Despite me not feeling him as a believable champion, I was still willing to see what he was capable and it failed miserably.

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