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  #11  
Old 11-08-2017, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by HeenanGorilla View Post
It amazes me how many people still don't get it. How many years in a row do these conversations have to take place before the answers sink in? I swear this forum is like an uninteresting Groundhog Day sequel when it comes to Mania. Every single one of you who complain about part-timers, venue, length of the show, pre-show matches, whatever else...you all either watch or attend anyway. WHY would Vince change a thing? Someone mentioned Vince handcuffing himself by using large stadiums. Handcuffing? Why would he want to go back to small arenas? Because Billy at the keyboard misses Mania's identity?

I'm sorry, guys, I understand how it feels when something you love changes to something you kind of like. But, presented with all of the facts you guys have been presented with and to still wonder why things have changed, don't you see how silly that sounds? If you want to talk about the good ol' days and reminisce, hey that's why I come to this forum...I get it. But so many of you actually think what you think matters and, worse, think your ideas are going to bring changes. It's preposterous. You know where Vince has "handcuffed" himself? The Hall of Fame. Every year it is part of Mania weekend and, regardless of whether they have deserving inductees or not, they will have a Hall of Fame ceremony. But it is free money, why would they choose to leave it off of the Mania weekend schedule? Because a bunch of people who weren't even alive at the time are disgusted by Koko B. Ware's induction? Get over yourselves! Mania and all that comes with it makes Vince and family money. It is really as simple as that. Someone said Triple H forces himself into the card. Triple H is more entertaining than most of the everyday roster. Who wants to see another Raw at Mania? I don't know why people watch Raw every week anyway, but that's another debate.

Again, I'm sorry to be so forward, but so many of you have the same argument every single year. HOW can you not see what's going on by now? The Mania weekend formula works. Wake up and realize that the power of the keyboard is nowhere near as strong as most of you think it is. And I'm not just talking wrestling fans. Political people, sports people, music people...did any of you vote yesterday? Did any candidate win by one vote? No. You don't matter. Find something you enjoy and enjoy it. Stop trying to change people that don't even know you're alive and stop trying to change things that don't need or want your approval for it to go on.
I don't think that anyone is trying to change anything. Obviously, only WWE has the power to change. People are just voicing their opinions on what they think of Mania. That may or may not change but it doesn't mean that you can't discuss about it if you can't change it. If someone on a keyboard doesn't have strong power, it doesn't mean that they can't voice their opinions on it. Vince will obviously see what benefits him. So, can't we discuss what will entertain us?
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  #12  
Old 11-09-2017, 12:06 AM
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Wrestlemania didn't lose its identity or luster or whatever you want to call it. The event has evolved into something even bigger. The celebrities and legends will always be a part of it. I get annoyed by the full-time wrestlers losing potential spots on the card too, but the biggest show of the year needs bigger names in order to be the big deal that it is. I came to terms with that. As far as the switch to the larger arenas.... That was a VERY good idea. WWE will make way more money so long as they are able to generate enough interest to fill these arenas. I don't see why anyone would want them to return to smaller venues for the event. No, this change needed to happen. Wrestlemania has become a brand in of itself. It is THE show and having it take place at massive venues only made it become that much more special. I got to be there at Wrestlemania 32 alongside 100,000 other fans. That was amazing. It would not have been anywhere near as special if it was in a smaller venue. The celebrities and part-timers are not going anywhere anytime soon and we likely won't see a return to smaller venues either. Just sit back and enjoy the show. Eventually it will go through another evolution and it will continue to grow.
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  #13  
Old 11-09-2017, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Dagger Dias View Post
Wrestlemania didn't lose its identity or luster or whatever you want to call it. The event has evolved into something even bigger. The celebrities and legends will always be a part of it. I get annoyed by the full-time wrestlers losing potential spots on the card too, but the biggest show of the year needs bigger names in order to be the big deal that it is. I came to terms with that. As far as the switch to the larger arenas.... That was a VERY good idea. WWE will make way more money so long as they are able to generate enough interest to fill these arenas. I don't see why anyone would want them to return to smaller venues for the event. No, this change needed to happen. Wrestlemania has become a brand in of itself. It is THE show and having it take place at massive venues only made it become that much more special. I got to be there at Wrestlemania 32 alongside 100,000 other fans. That was amazing. It would not have been anywhere near as special if it was in a smaller venue. The celebrities and part-timers are not going anywhere anytime soon and we likely won't see a return to smaller venues either. Just sit back and enjoy the show. Eventually it will go through another evolution and it will continue to grow.
Normally I'm in agreement with you Dagger, but in the this case I don't agree. Sure Vince and company want to play to bigger arena's with Wrestlemania being the biggest show of the year and all, but there are a few issues with that.

First of all the WWE seems to be fixated on breaking attendance records, well that's all well and good, but you are painting yourself into a corner when you go that route. I mean let's face it there aren't that many big arena's or stadiums around except in southern parts of the United States. So you run the risk of going to the same places over and over again. The reason you have to go to those stadiums is because Mania is held in April and in the northern US and Canada it's the middle of winter. No one will spend thousands of dollars to sit for over 6 hours in a windy, cold or icy stadium no matter how good the card is.

What I would like to see is this. Since the WWE advertises itself as a global company, every 5 years or so take the show on the road overseas. Europe has the climate and stadium size the WWE craves. For example they could go to Camp Nou, Barcelona, Spain, home of FC Barcelona. It holds almost 100k without even using the field. Then there is Wembley in London, another stadium with holds upwards of 100K. Last but not least Santiago Bernabéu, Madrid, Spain, the home field of Real Madrid. Again another stadium that with field seats would hold over 100k. I could put up with watching Mania in the middle of the afternoon once in a 5 year period. Plus they would sell these arena's out. Lot's of money to be made there.

Getting back to the original point of the thread though. I think we've all become used to the fact that Mania isn't your average PPV. It will be full of celebrity part timers and sometimes silly matches that don't really mean much. Once a year I can put up with it, the only thing I have an issue with is the time. 6 hours for a wrestling show is a little hard to sit through and I find myself zoning out about 4 hours into it. Probably won't even watch this years main event as it's been kind of spoiled already. Just waiting for Lesnar to drop the belt to Reigns and then we can all get back to normal. It will be an entertaining show though as it always is.
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2017, 04:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeMallard View Post
Mania has essentially became the Make Roman Reigns Show since 31, I don't have time for that shit anymore. There are plenty of talent on the roster that can do what Reigns does, some even better. Stop with dragging down and putting on uninteresting matches to make his look better. The part timers/attractions don't bother me as much, but don't waste 30 minutes of a show on them like the Rock segment from Mania 32.
Roman Reigns is only part of the problem. In theory WWE trying to make a coronation moment for Roman Reigns is what Wrestlemania should be for but WWE dropped the ball in handling him.

WWE tried to put all their eggs in one basket (The basket being Roman Reigns) they didn't have a Plan B.

But then again how could you? They hot shot Roman Reigns to create a new star when that's what they should be doing in the first place. Think about it, ever since WM26, the event was surrounded around part time guys like Undertaker, Triple H, Brock Lesnar, Sting, Goldberg, Batista, The Rock, etc. who would only have less than a handful of matches a year. Because of over reliance on the old guys WWE forgot how to book a WM with their main roster or younger talent.

The last time WM felt like a WM, to me, was Wrestlemania XXX when Daniel Bryan won the World Title. Keep in mind even this WM was a result of initial bad decisions (Batista winning the Rumble over Bryan), and CM Punk walking out that allowed WMXXX to turn out the way it did.
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2017, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Navi View Post
Normally I'm in agreement with you Dagger, but in the this case I don't agree. Sure Vince and company want to play to bigger arena's with Wrestlemania being the biggest show of the year and all, but there are a few issues with that.

First of all the WWE seems to be fixated on breaking attendance records, well that's all well and good, but you are painting yourself into a corner when you go that route. I mean let's face it there aren't that many big arena's or stadiums around except in southern parts of the United States. So you run the risk of going to the same places over and over again. The reason you have to go to those stadiums is because Mania is held in April and in the northern US and Canada it's the middle of winter. No one will spend thousands of dollars to sit for over 6 hours in a windy, cold or icy stadium no matter how good the card is.

What I would like to see is this. Since the WWE advertises itself as a global company, every 5 years or so take the show on the road overseas. Europe has the climate and stadium size the WWE craves. For example they could go to Camp Nou, Barcelona, Spain, home of FC Barcelona. It holds almost 100k without even using the field. Then there is Wembley in London, another stadium with holds upwards of 100K. Last but not least Santiago Bernabéu, Madrid, Spain, the home field of Real Madrid. Again another stadium that with field seats would hold over 100k. I could put up with watching Mania in the middle of the afternoon once in a 5 year period. Plus they would sell these arena's out. Lot's of money to be made there.

Getting back to the original point of the thread though. I think we've all become used to the fact that Mania isn't your average PPV. It will be full of celebrity part timers and sometimes silly matches that don't really mean much. Once a year I can put up with it, the only thing I have an issue with is the time. 6 hours for a wrestling show is a little hard to sit through and I find myself zoning out about 4 hours into it. Probably won't even watch this years main event as it's been kind of spoiled already. Just waiting for Lesnar to drop the belt to Reigns and then we can all get back to normal. It will be an entertaining show though as it always is.
Rogers centre has a roof. You're argument about doing mania in Toronto because of weather is invalid.
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  #16  
Old 11-09-2017, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Naniwa91 View Post
One thing that's been apparent over the years about WrestleMania is that it's the biggest wrestling event in the world.
Very true. And most importantly they want it to make a lot of money.

And fake roller coaster design sets.

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My issue with it is that it's not quite sure what it wants to be.
You just said what it wants to be. The biggest wrestling event in the world.

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Guest stars and big names not withstanding, some good matches are out on the card here.

But it's one thing to be a gathering of Hollywood icons and greats from yesterday, another thing entirely when said icons and greats are being not only advertised as being there at the forefront of the show but making anyone who isn't look absolutely irrelevant. That despite the fact that otherwise they (the full timers) are the primordial centerpieces in the other 10 months.
I agree that the part timers are getting too much time and attention but that doesn't take away from WM's identity. If anything it adds to it. Plus, WM helps support the guys who are the centerpiece the other ten months out of the year. It makes sense why they do it this way.

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It has gone from being hosted in a basketball arena to being hosted in three! cities simultaneously; from that to Atlantic City to Caesar's Palace, back to arena and now to football stadiums. If I recall, the last time that WrestleMania was in a sub-20,000 seat venue was WM22.

So my questions​ are these. Has WWE put themselves in a corner since WM23 by switching to these large arenas? And have they possibly looked at New Japan Pro Wrestling's January 4 event at the Tokyo Dome as inspiration?
I don't know enough to speak on the Tokyo Dome or NJPW but it seems as though WWE continues to be in a good position at this time to fill these football stadiums. It limits where they can host WM (although they pulled it off in the cold of NJ) but right now they don't seem to be in a corner. Look at the show outside of Santa Clara (31?). That was an awful card, in an expensive place, on the West Coast, where they featured a women's triple threat on a lot of advertising. I wouldn't call it a sellout (maybe I'm wrong), but they still had a huge gate.

There may come a day where they can't draw stadiums but it is unlikely to be sudden. Heck, the global economy was in the shitter in early 2009 and they still filled a stadium pretty well. People/fans/critics have been predicting WM's and WWE's demise for years and they have shown no sign of slowing down. UT is probably gone but I don't see that slowing things down. SC has never really come back. HBK as well. Add DB to that list. Say they are hurting for business, there are other cards they may be able to play (The Rock, Rhonda Rousey).

WM is fine, WWE's biggest issues right now are declining gates and future television contract.
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  #17  
Old 11-09-2017, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by sikkbones View Post
Rogers centre has a roof. You're argument about doing mania in Toronto because of weather is invalid.
I know the Rogers Centre has a roof, I live in Toronto, and there have been two Wrestlemania's here in the past.

The Rogers Centre or Skydome as some of us still call it can hold about 64k if they use field seats. The WWE has surpassed those numbers and gone onto bigger stadiums. We have nothing in Canada that can hold 100k, don't know about the northern part of the US, but I know that Canada is limited.
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2017, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeMallard View Post
Mania has essentially became the Make Roman Reigns Show since 31, I don't have time for that shit anymore. There are plenty of talent on the roster that can do what Reigns does, some even better. Stop with dragging down and putting on uninteresting matches to make his look better. The part timers/attractions don't bother me as much, but don't waste 30 minutes of a show on them like the Rock segment from Mania 32.
That gives me an idea. If Rock is so interested in Roman's career, perhaps he should volunteer to job to Roman this year.
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  #19  
Old 11-13-2017, 04:28 PM
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That gives me an idea. If Rock is so interested in Roman's career, perhaps he should volunteer to job to Roman this year.
Nope, that's already penciled in for next year after he beats bork laser this year.

I have no doubt a rock/roman main event is going to be a mania event mania.

Just not before lesnar.
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  #20  
Old 11-13-2017, 04:34 PM
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The "time difference bitching" would kill the foreign Mania idea, unless they REALLY went balls to the wall and as I said before, 2 shows one in the UK one in MSG or Boston and at least one guy wrestles the start of the first/end of the 2nd... 8 hour Mania would get over the time difference issue.

But it'll still never happen... too much of a risk financially.
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