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  #1  
Old 11-07-2017, 05:31 PM
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Naniwa91 Naniwa91 is offline
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Default Wrestlemania losing its identity

One thing that's been apparent over the years about WrestleMania is that it's the biggest wrestling event in the world. My issue with it is that it's not quite sure what it wants to be. Guest stars and big names not withstanding, some good matches are out on the card here.

But it's one thing to be a gathering of Hollywood icons and greats from yesterday, another thing entirely when said icons and greats are being not only advertised as being there at the forefront of the show but making anyone who isn't look absolutely irrelevant. That despite the fact that otherwise they (the full timers) are the primordial centerpieces in the other 10 months.

It has gone from being hosted in a basketball arena to being hosted in three! cities simultaneously; from that to Atlantic City to Caesar's Palace, back to arena and now to football stadiums. If I recall, the last time that WrestleMania was in a sub-20,000 seat venue was WM22.

So my questions​ are these. Has WWE put themselves in a corner since WM23 by switching to these large arenas? And have they possibly looked at New Japan Pro Wrestling's January 4 event at the Tokyo Dome as inspiration?
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  #2  
Old 11-07-2017, 06:16 PM
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I think lustre rather than identity.

When Wrestlemania started, it was a major event because they were rare.... then we got to the traditional "Big 4" and it still stood out, even with King Of The Ring added.

11 was an awful Mania, but was right when they decided to go monthly with PPV and the task then became to make Mania stand out. Some years they managed it, others they failed but in the last couple of years they are REALLY struggling.

First off, the 4 hours... that in itself works, but the idea of pre-show matches that don't make the DVD don't. If you're going to have a long event, have ALL the matches as part of the actual show... some of the better Mania's (6 & 7) had 14 matches or so... some very short, but they still had them. Since they started pre-shows/kickoff shows then it almost becomes impossible to invest in feuds or matches, as you know at least one will be bumped down to the kick-off. Sure they used to do dark matches, but they weren't advertised...

The other problem they have had in recent years is repetitiveness. Too many of the same faces occupying the main event matches... Cena, Orton, Reigns, Brock and even Taker... it's getting very samey as Vince desperately tries to give Roman his "Mania" moment. It's telling that Jericho has gone to do WrestleKingdom instead, he could do Mania 34 still, but he probably realises they'll give him a shit match again. They don't have the "names" to headline like they used to, and headlining Mania today for a newbie would be massively intimidating as one mistep and their career is over. When Yoko headlined Mania 9, he knew what he had to do and Vince was far more easy going than he is now... imagine Nakamura headlining Mania and Vince not liking it, he'd be gone.

For me the biggest thing is that Mania was once "must see live", as in staying up till 4am... now, I tend to watch the following day. That's as much on the presentation of it as it is real life getting in the way.

For me Mania isn't MUST see anymore... it's another show.
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  #3  
Old 11-07-2017, 06:29 PM
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Wrestlemania has always been about the fun and the buzz and the Entertainment. It has never been about wrestling. It was always about making an impact, or connecting with the rest of the world. That's why you get Cena/Bella vs Miz/Maryse, that's why you get Snooki, Rock, Rourke, Tyson, Mr. T, Lawrence Taylor etc. Sure all the big matches happen at Wrestlemania, but the greatest wrestling does not happen at Wrestlemania and if so, it rarely does.

Every year, something must happen at Wrestlemania, that will make an impact. That has always been the norm of Wrestlemania. You combine mainstream stars, so that you can have mainstream coverage. Then you do something impactful, using your wrestlers, so that said wrestlers can go viral using the coverage you got, because you featured a mainstream star.
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  #4  
Old 11-07-2017, 07:15 PM
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I don't have the time to watch as much wrestling as I used to and I may miss other PPV's like Battle ground or No mercy for example but for me Wrestlemania is still the one event that I never miss no matter the quality of the card, Always guarantees big names and great matches, I personaly prefer the bigger arenas as it feels like a huge show especially with the stage set up they usualy have now, Only downside for me is combined with the pre show the length is just too long, I could do with about 4 hours maximum by the time the main event comes on I'm just too tired and worn out of TV to concentrate properly on it.
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Old 11-07-2017, 09:44 PM
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The McMahon family (including HHH) has made WrestleMania all about themselves in recent years. HHH thinks he is now worthy of the Undertaker's annual "spot", not to mention he always makes sure he wrestles the 'babyface' with the most momentum (of course, with Stephanie at his side). Not to be outdone, Stephanie always gets her "WrestleMania moment" - the Ronda Rousey armbar was beyond ridiculous, making sure she posed for all four sides of the ring. And Shane is no better - even Luke Gallows and Jack Swagger throw better punches than Shane. WrestleMania's name should be changed to "Sports Entertainment Mania". If you want to see actual wrestling, watch the pre-show. If you want to watch Flo Rida and Machine Gun Kelly, tune into the actual show. Vince is comfortable with keeping things as they are - and why wouldn't he? People will always pay to watch WrestleMania, regardless of how bad the show is. When people stop giving their money to the McMahon's, that's when you will see a better product...maybe.
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  #6  
Old 11-07-2017, 11:35 PM
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I think it has in some ways but it has nothing to do with the large venues but that WrestleMania has become more and more an event that revolves around part timers and special attractions. For WrestleMania next year, there's a strong possibility that half the card looks something like this: Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns, probably a Triple H match, probably a Shane McMahon match, a John Cena match, POSSIBLY an Undertaker match and possibly a Kurt Angle match. I doubt Taker will wrestle but I included him as I don't think anyone is still, truly 100% certain that he's retired; it looks that way but we can't be sure. There's also talk that WWE has an eight woman tag team match between wrestling's Four Horsewomen and MMA's Four Horsewomen lined up; reports indicate that the match is basically a done deal at this point and, if so then that'd put it right back up to 6 part timer/special attraction matches, 7 if Taker is on board.

If the card does turn out to look something like that next year, then WrestleMania has become a full blown convention for part timers looking to make a big payday. The focus of the show will be on them instead of the guys and girls who carry WWE the other 364 days of the year like Styles, Balor, Nakamura, Owens, Zayn, Strowman, Ambrose, Rollins, Wyatt, Miz, Asuka, Bliss, New Day, Sheamus, Cesaro, the Usos and a number of others.
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2017, 12:25 AM
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Mania has essentially became the Make Roman Reigns Show since 31, I don't have time for that shit anymore. There are plenty of talent on the roster that can do what Reigns does, some even better. Stop with dragging down and putting on uninteresting matches to make his look better. The part timers/attractions don't bother me as much, but don't waste 30 minutes of a show on them like the Rock segment from Mania 32.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:18 AM
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Take away the Celebs, legends and part timers and the Wrestlemania card will look like a Fast Lane or Clash of Champions card. Triple H, Undertaker, Kurt Angle and to an extent Brock Lesnar will be what makes WM34 special and 'different from the rest'. I would take those 4 gentlemen over Dolph Ziggler, Sami Zayn, Baron Corbin and all the other mid-carders any day of the week.

Hopefully this year we see the return of Hulk Hogan and The Rock make an appearence - if that takes away the spot of The Usos or Elias then so fucking what!!!! I will watch those on Raw the following night.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:59 AM
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It amazes me how many people still don't get it. How many years in a row do these conversations have to take place before the answers sink in? I swear this forum is like an uninteresting Groundhog Day sequel when it comes to Mania. Every single one of you who complain about part-timers, venue, length of the show, pre-show matches, whatever else...you all either watch or attend anyway. WHY would Vince change a thing? Someone mentioned Vince handcuffing himself by using large stadiums. Handcuffing? Why would he want to go back to small arenas? Because Billy at the keyboard misses Mania's identity?

I'm sorry, guys, I understand how it feels when something you love changes to something you kind of like. But, presented with all of the facts you guys have been presented with and to still wonder why things have changed, don't you see how silly that sounds? If you want to talk about the good ol' days and reminisce, hey that's why I come to this forum...I get it. But so many of you actually think what you think matters and, worse, think your ideas are going to bring changes. It's preposterous. You know where Vince has "handcuffed" himself? The Hall of Fame. Every year it is part of Mania weekend and, regardless of whether they have deserving inductees or not, they will have a Hall of Fame ceremony. But it is free money, why would they choose to leave it off of the Mania weekend schedule? Because a bunch of people who weren't even alive at the time are disgusted by Koko B. Ware's induction? Get over yourselves! Mania and all that comes with it makes Vince and family money. It is really as simple as that. Someone said Triple H forces himself into the card. Triple H is more entertaining than most of the everyday roster. Who wants to see another Raw at Mania? I don't know why people watch Raw every week anyway, but that's another debate.

Again, I'm sorry to be so forward, but so many of you have the same argument every single year. HOW can you not see what's going on by now? The Mania weekend formula works. Wake up and realize that the power of the keyboard is nowhere near as strong as most of you think it is. And I'm not just talking wrestling fans. Political people, sports people, music people...did any of you vote yesterday? Did any candidate win by one vote? No. You don't matter. Find something you enjoy and enjoy it. Stop trying to change people that don't even know you're alive and stop trying to change things that don't need or want your approval for it to go on.
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  #10  
Old 11-08-2017, 10:11 AM
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I feel that wrestlemania had to change and evolve with the times. When it started in 1985, I felt like a big event because it was the first of his kind. The first major wrestling event broadcast nationwide on ppv. So they rallied on celebrities to make the show feel bigger. In fact, the 2 big match on the card had celebrity evolvement.

As the years past, mania needed to evolve and stand out from the pack of the ppv event. So they went bigger and use part timers and celebrities to make the event feel like a big deal and it worked.

Wrestlemania, as always been about the pageantry and the entertainment aspect of wrestling. It's the one event that casual fans will go out of there way to watch so why not use you're guys like HHH that fans casual fans actually knows to highlight the guys that has the most momentum. Business wise is make sense.

So I don't think is losing it's identity, I think it's just evolving.
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