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View Poll Results: Should a new star who wins over a certain fanbase get a title shot?
Yes: Strike while the iron is hot! 2 10.00%
No: Wait for the right time before you get the crown 5 25.00%
Neutral: Depends on the wrestler 13 65.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 10-20-2017, 01:01 PM
Wildcat66 Wildcat66 is offline
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Default Should Every New Star Who Wins Over The Fanbase Win A Title Now?

One of the biggest cons of being a fan is that sometimes you have to deal with fans who are very...let's say impatient. They want the things they want to happen now and if they don't get them, they will complain about it. Obviously, this is not the majority of fans; but it is quite a vocal minority indeed.

That is no different when it comes to some of the wrestlers in WWE. Twice in the last two months, there has been disappointment over Braun Strowman and Shinsuke Nakamura's failure to win the world titles of their brands. Whether they were ready for the title or not is a different question, but the more I think about it; the more I wonder: Should every new superstar that wins the fanbase over immediately go to the title scene?

This doesn't just go for world titles either, this could also apply to the midcard titles or maybe even the tag team titles. When a new star graduates from NXT, they already have a major fanbase from back in Orlando that would love to see their men or women succeed. Some have, others haven't and for a few...well, that's another story entirely. The casual audience however knows nothing about these people and so while NXT audiences find it amazing that they can finally see them on the main roster, those who don't watch are wondering who this guy or gal is.

This is why Asuka's debut vignettes are such a breath of fresh air for me, the casual audience learns about who Asuka is and what she represents; that's how you get someone behind something and I have a feeling it will pay off once she makes her debut this Sunday.

On a lesser note, Braun Strowman technically also break this mold slightly. He went from squashing jobbers to having a great feud with Sami Zayn to feuding with Roman Reigns before facing Brock Lesnar for the Universal title. A pretty decent time before challenging for the world title.

But what if a wrestler manages to catch over to not just the NXT audience but also the casual audience (like Sami Zayn, Enzo Amore, Kevin Owens, Carmella, Alexa Bliss and of course, Braun Strowman). What then? Once the first feud is done, should we feed them to a champion for the second? Or should we take our time and wait for them to grow their character before we delve deeper.

And that's my big question: When a new star enters the roster and wins over the fanbase be in from NXT, the casual or both in only a few months, should they be given a title feud where they have a chance of losing said feud and even momentum?
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2017, 02:06 PM
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I wouldn't consider this a negative aspect at all from someone. I want fans to be passionate and champion those who they love and want to commit to following. When people stop complaining and submit you get what we have now in the current global landscape of pro-wrestling. It is going to be a vocal minority, because none of the fans who aren't passionate enough to leave their comfort zone are going to dismiss them if they're not. That goes beyond the fans as well and of course beyond wrestling or sports entertainment. When you're nothing more than content with the wrestling you're watching you're not doing your job as a fan.

People wanted Shinsuke Nakamura to win, because look who is the current champion. Jinder Mahal. Someone who has proven they can be entertaining and put on great matches for over a decade with legitimacy to his name. Or Jinder Mahal. I don't think this was a "vocal minority" outcry considering even sheep WWE fans are still having a hard time buying into a guy that they saw as a jobber for years as champion. Then Braun strowman. Guy who had great matches (for what they were and his role) and consistently carried RAW for months with or even without Roman Reigns compared to a guy that never really shows up. I wouldn't say this is people being impatient considering every single complaint I have heard or seen about these two champions has had weight to it and could be applied to them in any time frame they held the belt.

I don't think the championships matter in WWE either to be honest. People had a chance to reject their current booking style for two decades and there wasn't enough opposition to change it. The sheep stayed and are still waiting for their Sheppard to come back. They are nothing more than props and tools to advance storylines or even just stall time at this point. Bray and Randy had the Smackdown belts for two weeks just to have something to do and start showing signs of unrest with Luke Harper. We've gotten to the point where a John Cena title reign literally means nothing more than flipping the belt to someone else and having a reason to have a match. Any championship means absolutely nothing at this point in regards to WWE.

Ignoring all that. The unrest and impatience is what makes the chase so great. You can listen to Jim Cornette, Dave Meltzer, Steve Austin, etc. and when they tell stories from the 1930's all the way up to guys like Daniel Bryan. It always ends with them saying what made a legendary match or feud so great was that the fans waited a long time to see it. The fans are supposed to be like that and I really do wish they were more vocal and passionate if they really are "fans" of either just WWE or pro-wrestling in general.

In regards to a "wrestler" in WWE. I will say it is completely situational and part of pro-wrestling is adapting and continuously being ahead of the other competition. I think a good worker to look at for the long term is Sami Zayn in his first NXT run when he was chasing the belt for months on end against Neville. As well as Daniel Bryan leading into his Wrestlemania win against Orton and Batista. That kind of thing works with certain competitors. Then you have to remember how something like that would of worked during the Goldberg / Lesnar feud. Timing is everything, but no situation is the same and no worker is the same.

Note: Sorry this is kinda a mess of a post.
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  #3  
Old 10-20-2017, 10:01 PM
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It depends really. What is your plan for said star? Is he going to be the face of the company? Then you usually save his moment for Wrestlemania. For example Austin was red hot by the end of WM 13, but they didn't make him a champion. They waited one full year.

Also, if said wrestler is a heel, then he gets the title more easily than a face would. Why? Because faces usually win their first world title under a special occasion.

And there's also timing and long term-plans. Both Ryback and Strowman didn't become champions because WWE wanted Punk vs Rock and Lesnar vs Reigns.

I say that if the time is right and iron is hot the strike and give the guy the world title. Fans will follow him and his stock will only rise from there. There's really no point in waiting, unless you want to do it at a special PPV or if you want to book a chase angle, but these cases usually work only for faces, not heels.

Also, fresh faces facing big superstars is a mistake for me. For example, Owens vs Cena. Yes it was a dream match. But if Owens' first feud is John Cena, what else can Owens do after that? It's like admiting that he's already reach his peak. And looking back, Owens' feud with Cena is also his best. And it was his first feud. If you can't surpass your first feud, then you're staying stable and you don't have space to grow.

What I'm trying to say is: treat superstars in levels. Main eventers face main eventers and midacarders face midcarders. Midcarderds should face main eventers only when the midcarder is ready for a spot at the ME.
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  #4  
Old 10-21-2017, 10:42 AM
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Hello Everyone,

I think it depends on how big they want this superstar to become. Not everyone can become like J
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  #5  
Old 10-21-2017, 03:54 PM
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J who?

I'm neutral. I say if you're insanely over where they're chanting your name during other matches (Ryder, Bryan, Punk, Ziggler at one point, Sasha, etc.) you sure as hell need to be rewarded.

It doesn't necessarily have to be the world title mind you, I never thought Zack Ryder was WWE Champion material despite admitting they screwed him. Him winning the Intercontinental/US title were justified and big moments for him and the fans, and that's his place. He's just not that serious a competitor for anything higher, besides, there's nothing wrong with the US/IC titles and peaking there, it's that type of mentality that lowers the prestige of those titles on top of horrible booking of said titles.

Ryder should have been making it a big deal about being IC champion and spouting how important it was to make others want it too which would keep fans invested in his title matches, but WWE treats mid card titles as interchangeable and meaningless, so of course the fans don't care.
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  #6  
Old 10-21-2017, 06:25 PM
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I'm #3 because WWE would wind up playing hot potato even more than they've already been doing this year with many of their titles. You'd have Attitude Era level title changes where every title changes hands at least once a month, sometimes more, and it's something I very much do not want to see return. As I alluded to, it's something we've seen make something of a comeback with some titles this year and it's something I'm hoping goes away next year, though I'm hoping even more it doesn't get any worse.

Another major thing to consider is that it's entirely possible for fan interest to wane once someone wins a championship. Zack Ryder is a perfect example of that in that he became quite popular for a while and fans wanted to see him in a title picture. Almost the moment he became United States Champion, interest in him vanished; maybe a long push was never in the cards for Ryder in the first place, but the fact that his popularity popped like a balloon was reason enough to end his push. Some people love to cheer for an underdog because he's an underdog, especially if that underdog is doing something they feel is entertaining, and if they feel he's not getting proper attention from the higher ups. Smarky fans absolutely LOVE to embrace things that they see as rebelling against the WWE status quo, fighting the machine and all that; I think Ryder was one of those causes they took up and they took it up not because they were so huge into Ryder, but because Ryder wasn't someone Vince would likely be all that high on. We're all smarks in here to one degree or another, don't get me wrong on that as I'm not trying to elevate myself into some sort of special status or any of that nonsense, but there are smarks in the know who still want to try to enjoy the product and they were smarks who, against all logic, seem to exist to crap all over the product while still devoting their time and money into watching it.

When it comes to title runs in WWE, WWE is always caught between a rock and a hard place. At any given time, there can be so many talents who're so over that a possible title run is deserved, yet whomever is carrying the title at the time also deserves to be carrying it. Some fans will get tired of a good, lengthy run, length by modern standards, by a worthy champion and will complain about it because they wanna see someone else get it. It's almost something like "okay, he's been a good champ for the last 4 months but I'm bored and wanna see this guy get it for a while" and then many of those same fans will then go a on bitchy rant about how the titles don't mean anything, WWE's booking is stupid, they don't make strong champions anymore, etc.

Everybody wants to see a really over talent get a championship run and/or they wanna see said talent get the title yesterday. When Shinsuke Nakamura debuted, there were, and still are some who feel, felt that they should've just pretty much given him the WWE Championship almost immediately; in some cases, it wasn't that he was just simply THAT talented, it was because Nakamura is one of "their guys", someone who was a big star without anything to do with WWE, which partly harkens back to some fans constantly trying to fight the machine. I'd have been happy with that over the 5 month snoozefest that is Jinder Mahal as WWE Champion not because Nakamura is THAT good, but because Jinder is legitimately THAT bad. Don't get me wrong, I like Nakamura a lot but he's not the crazy, out of this world talent to whom all others should bow down before, at least not in my eyes and not by a long shot.
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  #7  
Old 10-21-2017, 06:44 PM
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Professional wrestlers should milk everything for what is worth. There is so much exposure in a career that has such a short shelf life that if it ain't broken... When it starts to break, go find the next thing that works. If it means giving the wrestler a title then so be it. But giving someone a title can be a stay of execution before a death sentence. The mid card titles can define you as not worthy of the main title. Once you've won the main title, how much will it or you mean to people now that you have kind of peaked? The main title is kind of the climax of the story, are people going to be so interested in the epilogue.

So I guess I'm with option two or three.
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Old 10-23-2017, 02:52 AM
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I think that people wanted Braun to win the title not just because he was popular, but because him winning the championship seemed very believable. This is a guy that has spent that last year or so on a rampage. He's beaten Roman Reigns multiple times, and clean (outside of Kane). He made Brock Lesnar look like a harmless puppy. And he stumbled out of that ambulance still looking for a fight.

He should have defeated Brock Lesnar and he certainly shouldn't have lost clean after just one F-5. I think that Braun is one of the few guys on the roster right now that would have made it in the attitude era. He doesn't have the catchy phrases that the Rock had and he doesn't have the beer and middle fingers like Austin. He's just a big dude that's violent and incredibly strong. And that makes the fans interested in him.
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  #9  
Old 10-23-2017, 12:45 PM
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It depends on the situation.

Finn Balor was ready for the title, although he was injured.

Kevin Owens probably was, but his reign was pretty bad. That was mostly on booking though.

They could have made Samoa Joe or Braun Strowman champion, but obviously they want Reigns to go over at Mania.

So every situation is different. No one really knows how a reign will turn out until it happens. Sometimes a wrestler is ready, and sometimes they're not. Booking is also a big deal and obviously plays a major role.
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2017, 09:28 AM
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This is where WWE reaps what they have sown over the years... by basically LYING to talent that if "you get over...you will get the the rewards", many are starting to see that is not actually the case.

The World title in itself isn't the issue, so much as the associated "boost" that the machine puts into things like merchandise and the increased payoffs... even those getting the title don't always seem to get that. Jinder isn't getting that, Ambrose probably didn't and nor did countless other guys they've hung the title on for a spell in the last 15 years.

The World title in itself is now just a McGuffin, what talent want is to be in "The Cena Seat" which now appears to be "The Roman Seat". That is purely on the whim of who Vince wants, no matter how a talent actually gets over, if you're not his pick... you ain't getting that push and it will indeed work against you. Look at Cesaro and Bray for proof of that.

The World title is now a level BELOW the main event... look at this comparison

1987/88

Top Tier

Hogan
Andre
Savage
Piper
DiBiase

Tier Below

Jake
Warrior
Honky Tonk Man
JYD

Those top guys had "the run of the place", with DiBiase being slightly artificial as he was bankrolled as part of his gimmick... but those 4 below sold merch, were mega over with the fans but were not "the top guys"... only Warrior successfully moved up a bracket when both DiBiase and Andre dropped down. Then the belt WAS the marker for that top spot and those were the guys headlining PPV shows for that time... it no longer is.

Today's list would be more like

Top Tier

Brock
Trips
Cena
Roman
Taker (if he wrestles again but if not, still only 4 guys)
Shane
The Rock (when he's around)

World Title Tier
Jericho
Angle
AJ
Kane
Strowman
Big Show
Shield
Jinder
Owens
Charlotte/Bayley etc
Hardyz

All of that second tier may well be in main events or even hold a World title... but they are not treated on the same level as the top tier... Some SHOULD be in there like Jericho and Angle but aren't... some like Big Show and Kane have floated up and down while others, like Seth, Ambrose and AJ are given the illusion of being up there... but even now Triple H or Shane will be given precedence over them...as will Cena and all would be fed to Brock or Roman even if almost to a person... they are more over than Roman or Cena with fans.

Guys like Miz, Finn, Zig and Sheamus... they're even LOWER on the next tier down ... despite holding the gold once, they're not getting back to the top no matter how good or over they are cos they're percieved as failiures.

WWE wants a lot of guys to be in that second tier now...and as few as possible in the top one as they have huge contracts/demands. Shane is on an insanely large contract for "just a talent", so hence he will be used as much as they can... likewise with Reigns now... Cena, Taker, Trips... they're all once a year at best... and Rock once in a blue moon... but those lower guys fill out all those main events and PPV's for much less a year, in some cases the deals will be less than half... yet many are WAY more popular than Trips, Brock or Roman are now.

This is where WWE is starting to have major talent issues... there is a tier below even Finn etc... guys like Neville, Cesaro or Nakamura... guys who could and SHOULD be much higher but in Vince's head can't sell. These kind of talents are quickly going to start walking...and bringing the competition quality up sky high... Why did Nia get the hump and "walk"? Cos she knows they want to bring Ronda in and feed her to her... Why are guys like Neville getting pissed off, cos they know next year they're gonna bring Gronk in to take a spot, probably theirs...

The fans are stuck in a way, they can't influence what Vince does anymore... they blew their wad with Bryan... Vince will NEVER allow that level of fan interference again... even if it sinks his business. His dogged insistance on Roman and Brock prove that. There is no realy business case as ratings are falling and more fans and talents than ever are turning away...

Giving them a World title means nothing unless you actually get behind them... and who HAVE they actually done that for in the last few years? It's a short list... Roman, Goldberg, Shane, Brock and that's about it... everyone else, title or no... was just supporting those 4...
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