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  #11  
Old 10-17-2017, 01:53 PM
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also another point i think i forget to point on my original post is that while the booking my be a problem, look how many hours of tv they have to fill on the main roster. It's easy to say that on NXT they are given the time to breath and create a connection with the audience and to technically praise the way they book NXT, but they only have one hour to fill every week and it pretty much like they use to do back in the 80's, early 90's with mostly taped show and not a lot of big matches on the show every week.

On the main roster, it's a different story, Raw as 3 hours to fill, smackdown as 2, plus both show are live so it's a whole different way of booking. That how you can see how good a performer is under pressure. The booking of the characters didn't change from one show to the other, we just see more of them on the main show.

For exemple, Nakamura on NXT felt special because we didn'T see him on every single episode of NXT, sometimes he was there, sometimes he wasn't so you always keep him fresh as a character. Now you move the same character on the main roster and have him wrestles every week on the show and suddenly he's not as over. It's not because the booking was bad because it'S pretty much the same booking, it's more that he doesn'T feel special anymore because he'S on tv every week.

I think, that sometimes, i would serve them to go back to putting on less content and using part of the shows to put on jobber matches again, that way you get everybody over without necessarily have them on t.v. every week. Like they do with NXT and how they use to do it back in the day.
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2017, 01:59 PM
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The post above me gave me cancer.

EDIT: god-soldier's post.

Large roster can have an impact sure, when creative has the attention span of an ant. Even with a brand split there are still people treading water or being thrown into random things for the hell of it. It was hard enough for WWE to book one Tag Team and Women's division, so they gave both shows their own. Completely logical of course.

At the end of the day a roster of 10 people or 100 people isn't going to make a difference if the office isn't going to put forth effort. We have one of the most stacked rosters in the history of the business today and we are stuck with things like AJ Styles vs Shane McMahon and a mixed tag match with John Cena involved for a WrestleMania show while a guy like Jinder Mahal is the WWE champion. On paper a larger roster would benefit greatly from all of the interesting match ups and creative ideas that could come forth and thus a brand split in theory would further compliment said creative ideas.

The solution? Nah let's just throw Randy Orton vs Jinder Mahal on 3 pay per views in a row and have the same tag teams fight for months on end. You want things like Styles vs Nakamura, Nakamura vs Owens, Balor vs Lesnar, etc.? Well too bad because as awesome as those matches sound, they simply cannot happen for reasons.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2017, 03:49 PM
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Nah, more character and storyline problem. We got to the point were even The Shield reunion feels special because we have a feeling that something special is going on. Because other then that nobody is stepping up and creating something special. Guys like HHH, Cena, Rock, Punk, Bryan, none of them were handed the keys but they stepped up and took them. Rock started with "Die Rocky Die". Bryan started as someone who just "cant cut it in big league of WWE" and was quickly eliminated from NXT when it was just another reality show. But all those guys rise above it not because they were handed best material to succeed but because they have charisma and they stepped up. Vince is maybe old, but that "brass ring" comments arent for nothing. Because looking at current roster most of them arent really stepping up and doing anything with material handed to them. I dont expect Wyatt vs Balor to be 5 star classic. But damnit, not one of those guys is showing signs of being future stars of company. On the other side you can look at Enzo. Sure he cant wrestle even if his life depended on and you can make a case how WWE is burried him it but his mere presence on cruiserweights is feeling more special then anything else on roster aside of The Shield reunion. Other thing is storyline who could get better. Because they seem to rely on formula "If some guys can have good match once lets do that same match for 6 months". Even with large roster like this we get too much rehashing and same matches for months. Not to mention that by the time when they are finish you cant remember why they started feud. That is just lazy writing.
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2017, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undying View Post
The post above me gave me cancer.

EDIT: god-soldier's post.

Large roster can have an impact sure, when creative has the attention span of an ant. Even with a brand split there are still people treading water or being thrown into random things for the hell of it. It was hard enough for WWE to book one Tag Team and Women's division, so they gave both shows their own. Completely logical of course.

At the end of the day a roster of 10 people or 100 people isn't going to make a difference if the office isn't going to put forth effort. We have one of the most stacked rosters in the history of the business today and we are stuck with things like AJ Styles vs Shane McMahon and a mixed tag match with John Cena involved for a WrestleMania show while a guy like Jinder Mahal is the WWE champion. On paper a larger roster would benefit greatly from all of the interesting match ups and creative ideas that could come forth and thus a brand split in theory would further compliment said creative ideas.

The solution? Nah let's just throw Randy Orton vs Jinder Mahal on 3 pay per views in a row and have the same tag teams fight for months on end. You want things like Styles vs Nakamura, Nakamura vs Owens, Balor vs Lesnar, etc.? Well too bad because as awesome as those matches sound, they simply cannot happen for reasons.
First of all, i would love to see you do their job on a regular bases, i bet you wouldn't even last a day on the job because it's a really hard job being part of creative, so i little respect would be nice. Sure, their no perfect, nobody is but their doing the best they can with what they have. Sure they got the largest roster in history, the problem with that is that 80% of those guys they have rights now are doom to be mid carder or low mid card guys because for most of them, they don't have the charisma to actually draw money even if they had the best creative team in the world.

They're also the fact that i think fans like you don't seem to understand that WWE isn't their to please what you want to see. Maybe you want to see something like Balor vs Lesnar or Nakamura vs Styles, but their a large portion of the audience don't necessarily want to see that, their happy with seeing Shane wrestles once and a while or have randy face jinder. The mixed tag match a mania got a better reaction then most of the matches on the mania card this year, so i guess they did something right.

Plus for everybody that don't like jinder as WWE champion, just look at how well he was receive in India, the guy is a superstar down their so again, they did what the wanted to achieve with this.

In the end, you have to realise that the WWE is a Global company and not a small indy Fed like ROH or PWG we're 5 star matches are more important then actual storytelling and character build. Again, is WWE creative perfect, Hell no, but are they still pushing the guys that actually makes them money right now, hell yes so i'm guessing that they are doing something right after all.

P.S.: anybody that joke about having cancer from something somebody else wrote should not be allow to post on this board, it's really disrespecful to people that actually have cancer.

Last edited by wrestlingmasters55 : 10-17-2017 at 05:14 PM. Reason: forgot to make a point about how disrespecful is comment about getting cancer from somebody else post was
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  #15  
Old 10-18-2017, 01:00 AM
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Do I think the large roster is the reason why nobody can really break through?

No, not really. Here's why.

The "large" roster is controllable. There's a bunch of wrestlers on the roster we don't see every week because they are injured OR "Creative" has nothing for them. And this can happen to anyone who is still technically on the roster but isn't being used or WWE doesn't want to use.

So the roster could be 20 or 60 wrestlers, it doesn't really matter. What matters is who they are putting out there and how the characters are coming across and how interesting their storylines and matches are.


The roster could use a little spring cleaning for sure, but really it's about who they are using not who they have on the roster technically.


I keep coming back to this but I think it's important. I feel a couple big Stables/Factions on either brand would really help. It's SO hard for more than like one heel to get heat at a time because it seems you are either THE top heel or you are pretty much left to fend for yourself with little TV time until maybe they call your number and then they try to do all the exposure and angles to build up heat and interest.

But if there was a nice sized DOMINANT heel faction on both brands that were unique it would open SO MANY more doors for building up veteran, new and developing talent to be in a position to gain consistent heat leading to a double-cross or revenge or betrayal type scenario that usually ends up being very rewarding.

Just looking at The Shield reunion NOW. The ONLY reason it works is because The Shield came in as a dominant stable. If they had come in like The Ascension and won a bit, lost a lot more and just talked a lot but not got much done, even if they added a third member but it didn't change much, and had one turn on them, we would NOT be seeing a huge crowd reaction to an Ascension reunion or a Shield reunion either unless their first run was dominant like it was and the famous Seth backstabbing angle that gave it so much more.


I feel like there's been missed opportunities:

- The Club (Gallows and Anderson): When they came in they could have come in MUCH stronger. Maybe they don't add Balor or Styles right away but maybe some new ones but they could have come in strong, heel tactics and attacks and such all they way leading to a Tag Team title reign.

Then by this point The Club could have had a few members defect and then add in Balor or Styles for a resurgence!

- The Miztourage: Good initial idea, and yes, Miz is IC Champ, but his two sidekicks still just look like lackeys and haven't been given a chance to shine. If they were built up at first as a sly and smart team then babyface teams defeating them now would have much more impact and value.


There are many other examples, but it comes down to focus by the Creative team on supporting the talent instead of having SO MANY of them just go out on their own.


Even if you have a Stable or Faction or two, there will STILL BE plenty of individual talents that will get over (or not get over) and they will be involved in storylines that should be more interesting now that there is more variety and a driving force with each brand.
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  #16  
Old 10-18-2017, 01:22 AM
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THe WWE in 2017 has more depth and certainly their women's division has never been better but there is nobody on the level of Cena in the PG era and nobody on the level of Stone Cold in the attitude era, especially with Lesnar as
a part timer being champion.

I think the best six wrestlers in the WWE excluding part timers are Roman,
Strowman, KO, AJ, Rollins, Nakamura. I'm skeptical any of these guys are capable of being the #1 guy
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  #17  
Old 10-18-2017, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
First of all, i would love to see you do their job on a regular bases, i bet you wouldn't even last a day on the job because it's a really hard job being part of creative, so i little respect would be nice. Sure, their no perfect, nobody is but their doing the best they can with what they have. Sure they got the largest roster in history, the problem with that is that 80% of those guys they have rights now are doom to be mid carder or low mid card guys because for most of them, they don't have the charisma to actually draw money even if they had the best creative team in the world.

They're also the fact that i think fans like you don't seem to understand that WWE isn't their to please what you want to see. Maybe you want to see something like Balor vs Lesnar or Nakamura vs Styles, but their a large portion of the audience don't necessarily want to see that, their happy with seeing Shane wrestles once and a while or have randy face jinder. The mixed tag match a mania got a better reaction then most of the matches on the mania card this year, so i guess they did something right.

Plus for everybody that don't like jinder as WWE champion, just look at how well he was receive in India, the guy is a superstar down their so again, they did what the wanted to achieve with this.

In the end, you have to realise that the WWE is a Global company and not a small indy Fed like ROH or PWG we're 5 star matches are more important then actual storytelling and character build. Again, is WWE creative perfect, Hell no, but are they still pushing the guys that actually makes them money right now, hell yes so i'm guessing that they are doing something right after all.

P.S.: anybody that joke about having cancer from something somebody else wrote should not be allow to post on this board, it's really disrespecful to people that actually have cancer.

So you know how their job is? Interesting. Please tell me more about it. From what very little I can make out of your atrocious demolition of the English language, you are saying 80 percent of the roster doesn't have the charisma or talent to draw money, but later you defend Jinder Mahal probably the biggest charisma vacuum in WWE today.

A large portion of the audience doesn't want to see those matches? You must have a lot of friends that go to every show in order to have such statistics. Pay no attention to the monster pop the graphic of Finn Balor up against Brock Lesnar garnered months ago. Or the arena literally rising to their feet when Shinsuke Nakamura and AJ Styles looked at each other in the Money in the Bank match. Clearly more people want to see Jinder matches hence the low viewership on Smackdown and pictures of almost half the damn arena being empty.

Jinder is a superstar in India? Says who? Where are you pulling this information besides out of your ass? I can't fathom why you are knocking "80 percent" of the roster for not having charisma or talent to succeed but are defending Jinder Mahal who literally had zero build up to winning the Championship and then ended up pinning guys like Orton and Nakamura multiple times. That's outstanding creatively, give a guy who lost a 2 minute match on Raw a world title about a month later.
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  #18  
Old 10-18-2017, 04:41 PM
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Fundamentally, the roster size isn't the issue, nor is the show being written a certain way. The problem is the inherent nature of WWE as a public company as opposed to the privately owned one of the Attitude Era and prior.

The WWE is in its most crucial phase in years right now, there's barely 2 years until contracts for TV come up again and the last batch of them were way lower than they'd hoped and next time Cena will be all but retired and Brock, Taker, Kane, Big Show, Jericho and other "banker" talents will be retired for sure.

WWE HAS given a fair few guys a chance in the recent period, but none of them have actually succeeded in the way WWE needs them to. Guys like Ambrose became popular but didn't catch fire, guys like Finn and Seth got hurt...just as Ziggler did and others like Jinder Mahal are there for a certain reason.

Vince NEEDS new guys to get over, but he needs new "bankers" first... Attitude Era only worked because it had Bret for its very beginnings, then Shawn and then Taker to get the newer talents over. WWE right now doesn't have those "big names" on tap, guys like Jericho are playing music... guys like Taker and Kane are too banged up or focusing on politics and even Jeff Hardy is now injured and stupidly on their part, they never used Matt as effectively as they should.

For a company with shareholders, they can't just push who the fans want... if that share price drops, Vince can lose his company. Likewise, if those TV deals come back even lower next time (which putting the belt on someone like Nakamura could do) then it's pretty much game over. When it was all McMahon owned, he could take a punt on Austin, Rock, Jericho, Trips, Foley, Kane etc... to the point that for 7 years they created at least one new headliner a year from talents just 3 years prior for each were NEVER gonna be World champs... if you'd said in early 1996 that by the end of the millennium Steve Austin, Rocky Maivia, Isaac Yankem, Triple H and Mick Foley would have held the WWF title you'd have been called crazy, much less Chris Jericho just a year later.

People HATE Reigns, but Vince and WWE now need him to work... The Brock show is diminishing returns and they know it... if Reigns bombs for real, so does the WWE cos no one else is left they can "bring back".

What this means for those lower guys is that, as with WWE in 1994/1996 or WCW in 1999/2000 the guys who the fans want can't have their shot yet... it only takes one to "catch" like Austin or Goldberg, but the odds are against that happening. AJ Styles is the closest to a true success story in recent years, in that he really did upset the order of things... but it didn't translate to more money or viewers when it came down to it.

Someone like Neville, now looks and says "They're not gonna make me World Champ... or US/IC..." best he can hope for is a tag run or to stay where he is... perhaps they make him UK champ and move that belt up... either way, if he's not on the Mania DVD with one of the matches of the night, and not getting royalties from the game on some silly technicality, then there is literally no reason to stay there... Guys have seen what Cody did, what Drew and Jinder did and now that is the more attractive option.

It's more of a risk to stay in WWE and drown in their lack of ability to push new talent or worse, be made a scapegoat when those deals come back shit next time... than it is to take a year or two away in Japan, the indys, ROH... Neville, Cesaro, Ziggler, Sin Cara, even Titus walk into those companies and make more/are a bigger deal than they can be in the next 2 years in WWE. They may come back even bigger like Drew did, and by then, NXT will be further along even still...

I feel angry about Neville, as it truly is a waste of talent, but he can hold his head up and say he genuinely improved there and did his job well... they won't like him leaving as he seems to have done, especially as it seems he's opening the floodgates... but they also can't dispute that view... if they really can't use him better, then let him go and get him back later. The danger is it turns into Harry Smith all over again, they'd kill to get him back right now...but it seems further away than ever.
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  #19  
Old 10-18-2017, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undying View Post
So you know how their job is? Interesting. Please tell me more about it. From what very little I can make out of your atrocious demolition of the English language, you are saying 80 percent of the roster doesn't have the charisma or talent to draw money, but later you defend Jinder Mahal probably the biggest charisma vacuum in WWE today.

A large portion of the audience doesn't want to see those matches? You must have a lot of friends that go to every show in order to have such statistics. Pay no attention to the monster pop the graphic of Finn Balor up against Brock Lesnar garnered months ago. Or the arena literally rising to their feet when Shinsuke Nakamura and AJ Styles looked at each other in the Money in the Bank match. Clearly more people want to see Jinder matches hence the low viewership on Smackdown and pictures of almost half the damn arena being empty.

Jinder is a superstar in India? Says who? Where are you pulling this information besides out of your ass? I can't fathom why you are knocking "80 percent" of the roster for not having charisma or talent to succeed but are defending Jinder Mahal who literally had zero build up to winning the Championship and then ended up pinning guys like Orton and Nakamura multiple times. That's outstanding creatively, give a guy who lost a 2 minute match on Raw a world title about a month later.
First of all, stop taking everything so seriously my boy. I say my boy mostly because by the way you're reacting to my comments, you're probably a 13 years old boy living with mom and dad that got nothing to do then be upset by somebody else's opinion.

Secondly, You look at the roster right now, are you telling me that guys like Curt Hawkins, Apollo Crews and pretty much the entire mid card and lower mid card guys actually draws any money for the company? Really, when i talk about 80% of the rosters and talking about those guys in particular, do some research next time. There's more guys on the roster then the main guy and on a side note, Finn balor is a great wrestler, i will give you that because i'ma fan of his, but he's one of the worst promo guy in the wwe right now and if you watch raw last week, you could hear crickets during his promo.

Next, about those matches you talked about. Sure they are great matches but why waste them all at one, most of those matches your mention are wrestlemania caliber matches and you should build a story around them, not just throw them on tv because a few fans on the internet want to see them. The payoff will be a lot bigger when they finally happens

Also, let's talk Jinder mahal, did you watch Smackdown live last night, if so, you would have understood what i was talking about when i wrote about how big Jinder is in India. He's pretty much in the same league as Cena in India right now and while you and most of the fans that actually write on wrestling board don't like him, i'm guessing this is mostly because Meltzer said that he didn't like Jinder as champion so you guys decided to not like him because you believe everything that he write on his dirt sheet, he is working as a heel. Again listen to the reaction he got an how he dealt with it last night, that's what a heel is supposed to be and he does a really good job at it. Does he have a lot of Charisma no, but he a decent promo and as far as WWE style is concern, he does it pretty well.

Finally, how do you think the work in creative works exactly, do you think they just sit around all day, do nothing then on the day of the show they just wing it? No that not how this works. They have to write the format for the show, that been Raw or smackdown every week and they only have one week to produce all of the segment, then have it approve by whoever in charge of the show, then rewrite the segment that weren't approve or have change the day off and they have to do that every single week sometimes twice in a week when they have a PPV to write so that's alot of pressure. If you don't believe me, go ask guys that use to be on the creative team like Court bauer. So while not everything is perfect and to do liking of certain peoples they do the best they can and i'm sure that pretty much anybody that complains about creative couldn't even last a day in their shoes.

So in the end, i'm sure that you will get all worked up about what i just wrote and will insult me on how poorly my english is. That's pretty much what guy like you do when they don't like what others have to say. So go for it if you it makes you happy, i really don't care. But if you do decide to reply to this post, at less don't make a point about how i took a number out of my ass and then in the next paragraph write that a large portion of the audience want those matches because it makes you look stupid when you contradict yourself.
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  #20  
Old 10-19-2017, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
First of all, stop taking everything so seriously my boy. I say my boy mostly because by the way you're reacting to my comments, you're probably a 13 years old boy living with mom and dad that got nothing to do then be upset by somebody else's opinion.

Secondly, You look at the roster right now, are you telling me that guys like Curt Hawkins, Apollo Crews and pretty much the entire mid card and lower mid card guys actually draws any money for the company? Really, when i talk about 80% of the rosters and talking about those guys in particular, do some research next time. There's more guys on the roster then the main guy and on a side note, Finn balor is a great wrestler, i will give you that because i'ma fan of his, but he's one of the worst promo guy in the wwe right now and if you watch raw last week, you could hear crickets during his promo.

Next, about those matches you talked about. Sure they are great matches but why waste them all at one, most of those matches your mention are wrestlemania caliber matches and you should build a story around them, not just throw them on tv because a few fans on the internet want to see them. The payoff will be a lot bigger when they finally happens

Also, let's talk Jinder mahal, did you watch Smackdown live last night, if so, you would have understood what i was talking about when i wrote about how big Jinder is in India. He's pretty much in the same league as Cena in India right now and while you and most of the fans that actually write on wrestling board don't like him, i'm guessing this is mostly because Meltzer said that he didn't like Jinder as champion so you guys decided to not like him because you believe everything that he write on his dirt sheet, he is working as a heel. Again listen to the reaction he got an how he dealt with it last night, that's what a heel is supposed to be and he does a really good job at it. Does he have a lot of Charisma no, but he a decent promo and as far as WWE style is concern, he does it pretty well.

Finally, how do you think the work in creative works exactly, do you think they just sit around all day, do nothing then on the day of the show they just wing it? No that not how this works. They have to write the format for the show, that been Raw or smackdown every week and they only have one week to produce all of the segment, then have it approve by whoever in charge of the show, then rewrite the segment that weren't approve or have change the day off and they have to do that every single week sometimes twice in a week when they have a PPV to write so that's alot of pressure. If you don't believe me, go ask guys that use to be on the creative team like Court bauer. So while not everything is perfect and to do liking of certain peoples they do the best they can and i'm sure that pretty much anybody that complains about creative couldn't even last a day in their shoes.

So in the end, i'm sure that you will get all worked up about what i just wrote and will insult me on how poorly my english is. That's pretty much what guy like you do when they don't like what others have to say. So go for it if you it makes you happy, i really don't care. But if you do decide to reply to this post, at less don't make a point about how i took a number out of my ass and then in the next paragraph write that a large portion of the audience want those matches because it makes you look stupid when you contradict yourself.
Nobody with a fucking brain thinks Jinder is a good champ.
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