WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > Wrestling - Non Spam Sections > World Wrestling Entertainment
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-16-2017, 06:22 PM
Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.'s Avatar
Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. is online now
Kamehamehaaaaa!!
Million Dollar Champion
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
Age: 21
Posts: 1,236
Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. scored a win over Santino Marella...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. scored a win over Santino Marella...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. scored a win over Santino Marella...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. scored a win over Santino Marella...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. scored a win over Santino Marella...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. scored a win over Santino Marella...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. scored a win over Santino Marella...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. scored a win over Santino Marella...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. scored a win over Santino Marella...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. scored a win over Santino Marella...Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. scored a win over Santino Marella...
Default Do you think the large roster is the reason why nobody can really break through?

It's true that during the Attitude Era WWE's roster was small, so small that 2 hours pf RAW was enough to make a compelling show. A small roster, but a roster full of talent. Austin, Rock, Foley, Triple H, Angle, Jericho, Undertaker, Kane.. these guys managed to "swim with the sharks and survive" back then. So during the AE we see the meaning of quality > quantity, hence WWF > WCW.

In the Golden Era, WWF had a large roster, but much less exposure and some quality stars like Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Million Dollar Man, Roddy Pipper etc. Here, we see the meaning that overexposure plays in the quality of the product.

In the New Generation Era, WWE definately had talent, but they lacked drawing power. So what happened there? You had Bret Hart, HBK, Yokozuna, Razor Ramon, Diesel, Undertaker, Owen Hart, Mr. Pefect, British Bulldog. Well IMO, I think Vince just used their wrestlers in the wrong way back then. Perfect, Hart, Razor, Bulldog and Undertaker were never World Champions in the New Gen Era. In fact, only Undertaker became a world champ in 1997 with another, sort-lived run in 1991. So one can say that in the New Gen Era, WWF used their roster not in its full potential.

Now in the Ruthless Agression Era, WWE had a huge roster, full of talent. So they introduced the brand split. What really worked, was that they gave RAW and Smackdown an identity and made them equal. Each show had a core of certain wrestlers. Each show had an elite, just like WWF had an elite back in the AE. They treated each brand as a wrestling company. RAW had Evolution, Goldberg, Jericho, Edge, HBK and SD had Lesnar, Taker, Angle, Eddie. From 2002 until 2005 there were very few swaps between the shows and even after 2005, each brand still kept their "special core" until 2007.

Which brings me to the current product

Today, we seem to have everything negative WWE has done over the ages, all in one place:
A large roster
Some quality players that get lost in the shuffle and everyone, except Roman and Brock, looks equal to each other. Styles and Owens are two other names that stand out, mostly because of their unique abilities and not so much because of the WWE.
WWE tries to throw everyone at every position all the time. A rotation in the main event is always welcome, but you need an "elite". Who's the elite today?
Over-exposure
Brands that lost their identity and we're still 1,5 year into the split

I don't really have a question to ask you guys, just talk about this subject.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-16-2017, 07:03 PM
Wildcat66 Wildcat66 is offline
Welcome to the Warzone.
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 200
Wildcat66 scored a win over Santino Marella...Wildcat66 scored a win over Santino Marella...Wildcat66 scored a win over Santino Marella...Wildcat66 scored a win over Santino Marella...Wildcat66 scored a win over Santino Marella...Wildcat66 scored a win over Santino Marella...Wildcat66 scored a win over Santino Marella...Wildcat66 scored a win over Santino Marella...Wildcat66 scored a win over Santino Marella...Wildcat66 scored a win over Santino Marella...Wildcat66 scored a win over Santino Marella...
Default

I mean, that could be a good reason: The majority agree that WWE's roster right now is the best it's ever been in terms of in ring quality. Though there is a case to be made about there being too many wrestlers.

Obviously, not every wrestler can get the desired push: some stars no matter how good they are in the ring will be cast aside for other wrestlers. I think this is why I like RAW more than SmackDown right now, there seems to be a larger variety of wrestlers you see every week so you don't get tired of seeing the same people every time. Not perfect, but they do at least try new things.

But overall, WWE's roster; as great as it is does have a few people that I question why they still have a job there in the first place.

If you ask me, I think the best way to solve this is to have another one of WWE's spring-cleanings; any wrestler who isn't worth a dime gets through the door and walks on out of WWE.

Nominations:
Dana Brooke (Has done nothing and has consistently shown to be out of her league)
Summer Rae (She's probably retired by this point, I don't know)
Darren Young (They've tried everything with him and he just hasn't gotten over. He's dead weight)
Dolph Ziggler (Has done everything he realistically can do in WWE and has nothing more to achieve)
Neville (He seems to have quit anyway so...yeah)
Tamina (This whole experiment with Lana and Tamina is a flop, combined with the fact that she's not getting any younger is enough for me to say she's a lost cause)
R-Truth (Not getting any younger, never getting another push, probably retiring in a few years; time to go out on a high)
Sin Cara (The magic died in 2012)
Lince Dorado (Can't think of a single thing he's done since getting to WWE)
__________________


#ThanksforGiving
Cat of Controversy, Writer of Wrestling
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-16-2017, 07:17 PM
Rainbow Yaz's Avatar
Rainbow Yaz Rainbow Yaz is offline
Sing about me, I'm dying of thirst
ECW TV Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Kentucky
Age: 27
Posts: 2,381
Rainbow Yaz is a United States Champion...Rainbow Yaz is a United States Champion...Rainbow Yaz is a United States Champion...Rainbow Yaz is a United States Champion...Rainbow Yaz is a United States Champion...Rainbow Yaz is a United States Champion...Rainbow Yaz is a United States Champion...Rainbow Yaz is a United States Champion...Rainbow Yaz is a United States Champion...Rainbow Yaz is a United States Champion...Rainbow Yaz is a United States Champion...
Send a message via Skype™ to Rainbow Yaz
Default

I don't think that is 100% the reason. I truly believe that WWE only wants certain guys to break out and reach the top, and if you aren't one of those handpicked guys then you aren't going to be given the chances to reach the top, or you will be stopped if you do start to break through. Maybe I'm just a cynic, maybe I'm jaded, but I feel like that is the case.
__________________
WZCW: Join Today
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-16-2017, 09:14 PM
rmp0012002 rmp0012002 is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 554
rmp0012002 is looking to come up from OCW...rmp0012002 is looking to come up from OCW...rmp0012002 is looking to come up from OCW...rmp0012002 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Years ago wrestlers made themselves stars by just being that good and just being themselves, just with the volume turned up. The WWE feels the need to force feed to people wrestlers that are not the next Hogan or Cena. styles is the perfect example of a wrestler that never changed anything and has gotten over as the same guy he was all those years ago in the indies. He's the real deal like Owens and the fans see that. It has to be organic, telling people who they should like never works.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-16-2017, 10:14 PM
wrestlingmasters55's Avatar
wrestlingmasters55 wrestlingmasters55 is online now
Registered User
Million Dollar Champion
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Montreal,canada
Posts: 1,356
wrestlingmasters55 scored a win over Santino Marella...wrestlingmasters55 scored a win over Santino Marella...wrestlingmasters55 scored a win over Santino Marella...wrestlingmasters55 scored a win over Santino Marella...wrestlingmasters55 scored a win over Santino Marella...wrestlingmasters55 scored a win over Santino Marella...wrestlingmasters55 scored a win over Santino Marella...wrestlingmasters55 scored a win over Santino Marella...wrestlingmasters55 scored a win over Santino Marella...wrestlingmasters55 scored a win over Santino Marella...wrestlingmasters55 scored a win over Santino Marella...
Default

I think that one of the problem they face right now but I also think that the fact that the landscape of wrestling as change so much since the attitude era or even the hogan era make it even harder to get over now.

Somebody like stone cold steve austin, the rock or even guys like hogan and flair, could become the legends they became in todays landscape because fans nowaday don't care about characters or about storyline, all they want is to get five star matches and get themselves over. So yes, the large roster is part of the problem but the fans not believing in characters anymore and only wanting workrate is another problem thay wwe and wrestling in general is facing. That why you will never see the type of crowds or get super over guys anymore in wwe.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-17-2017, 05:24 AM
Jack-Hammer's Avatar
Jack-Hammer Jack-Hammer is offline
The Once And Future Lizard King!!!!
Wrestlezone Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kentucky
Age: 37
Posts: 12,555
Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...
Default

Its' a problem, but I don't think it's the main problem or really even that big of a problem.

While some of the fault must always go with the talent, I think a huge problem is that so few of them are seemingly allowed to get over organically. Take Shinsuke Nakamura as an example of someone that fans probably wouldn't have embraced had it not been for NXT; in NXT, Nakamura was allowed and encouraged to use what'd made him such a big star in New Japan for more than a decade. They emphasized his strong style roots, training, its physicality and went with the "King of Strong Style" moniker because it's who he is, it's something he's cultivated over the years while his mannerisms and unusual charisma complete the package in a way to help him stand out in a business that's full of over the top characters. On the main roster, what do they do? They water down so much of what brought him to the dance and put emphasis on the "Artist" bullshit, which has Vince's fingerprints all over it as it just screams of sports entertainment banality. They compare him to Michael Jackson or Freddie Mercury and you will only hear the strong style part of who he is, his background, etc. mentioned every once in a blue moon, mostly in passing, by Corey Graves.

When you look at how much emphasis is placed on a wrestler's personality and character in NXT compared to the main roster, there are times in which it seems that the positions of the main roster and NXT are reversed. On the main roster, most of them are given narrow guidelines to work within in order to achieve success, their words are carefully chosen for them when they speak and they're not to step out of line without risking consequences. On what's supposed to be the developmental roster, NXT, it's the exact opposite; ideas and input from the wrestlers are not only welcome, but encouraged without this aura of malice from the boss hanging over everyone's head, who they are as characters, their personas, etc. are all encouraged to develop organically rather than being told everything by suits on the main roster, some of whom have never worked a match in their lives.

That's not to say that there aren't some highly entertaining things going on with highly entertaining wrestlers, otherwise we wouldn't watch nor would we care. However, I think it's fair to say that many don't really reach their full potential because of Vince's need to control every aspect of what goes on.
__________________
"What Do I Know Of Cultured Ways, The Gilt, The Craft And The Lie?
I, Who Was Born In A Naked Land And Bred In The Open Sky.
The Subtle Tongue, The Sophist Guile, They Fail When The Broadswords Sing.
Rush In And Die Dogs - I Was A Man Before I Was King."


Conan Of Cimmeria
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-17-2017, 07:58 AM
Navi's Avatar
Navi Navi is online now
With the safety off!!
TNA Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 3,998
Navi is a United States Champion...Navi is a United States Champion...Navi is a United States Champion...Navi is a United States Champion...Navi is a United States Champion...Navi is a United States Champion...Navi is a United States Champion...Navi is a United States Champion...Navi is a United States Champion...Navi is a United States Champion...Navi is a United States Champion...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack-Hammer View Post
That's not to say that there aren't some highly entertaining things going on with highly entertaining wrestlers, otherwise we wouldn't watch nor would we care. However, I think it's fair to say that many don't really reach their full potential because of Vince's need to control every aspect of what goes on.
This in a nutshell. The problem is not the size of the roster, it's they way they are booked. The solution lies solely with the person making the decision's, and as we've seen over the last 3 years, one guy has been pushed and a a lot of others have been left by the wayside. No one can break through while that is going on, no matter how hard they try.

Vince's exclusive brass ring is a myth, he is the only one who gets to decide who will be offered it and who doesn't deserve it. All you have to do is look at RAW this year. Lesnar won the title and has basically been allowed to hold it hostage, for a second time. He is going through the main event one at a time until he finally drops it at next year's Mania. Total waste of a year.

No the size of the roster isn't an issue, it's the person holding the purse strings that's the main problem.
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-17-2017, 09:30 AM
Spencesc11 Spencesc11 is offline
Registered User
Comedy Jobber For Life: AKA Santino
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 236
Spencesc11 is looking to come up from OCW...Spencesc11 is looking to come up from OCW...Spencesc11 is looking to come up from OCW...Spencesc11 is looking to come up from OCW...Spencesc11 is looking to come up from OCW...Spencesc11 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

I think the key going forward is doing the superstar shakeup once a year. Preferably after Wrestlemania. This allows NXT's to get called up and Raw & Smackdown to start new storylines annually. Keeping the product fresh and giving struggling superstars a chance to reset can only benefit the product. I'm not a Mahal fan but his run on Smackdown has legitamized what was once a real bad jobber.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-17-2017, 10:57 AM
ShinChan's Avatar
ShinChan ShinChan is online now
Who Am I?
ECW TV Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: India
Posts: 2,298
ShinChan is getting some looks on Smackdown...ShinChan is getting some looks on Smackdown...ShinChan is getting some looks on Smackdown...ShinChan is getting some looks on Smackdown...ShinChan is getting some looks on Smackdown...ShinChan is getting some looks on Smackdown...ShinChan is getting some looks on Smackdown...ShinChan is getting some looks on Smackdown...ShinChan is getting some looks on Smackdown...ShinChan is getting some looks on Smackdown...ShinChan is getting some looks on Smackdown...
Default

No, large roster isn't the reason. Booking is. If you don't give anyone chance to break through, you can't get someone who breaks through.

Your World Champion is sittimg free at home. While the main event of your next PPV is a handicap tag match. No World Title defense. No InterContinental Title defense. No Tag Titles defense. Your other world champion is a jobber. That jobber defeats No. 2 of NJPW. You can't expect that No. 2 to brek through when he's defeated by a jobber, can you? Let's go back to Raw. Two World Champions continue fighting each other. One monster who could become a star is defeated easily by your World Champion. Because there's only one who can defeat that World Champion. The same one who can't be defeated by 4 finishers of John Cena of all people. Or 3 finishers of Brock Lesnar. And the PPVs continue being without World Championship Defense.

BUT IT'S ALL GOOD BECAUSE ROMAN REIGNS & BROCK LESNAR.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-17-2017, 11:33 AM
god-soldier god-soldier is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 149
god-soldier is looking to come up from OCW...god-soldier is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

They book the wrong people, they went out there way to monopolies wrestling again and get all the best Indy wrestlers in the world. They get no exposure how could Jinder a jobber who lost to El Torito be WWE champion that's like Barry Horowitz or Brooklyn Brawler being WWE champion . Meanwhile you have AJ Styles, you have Shinsuke Nakamura, you have Rusev, you have Orton, you have Bobby Roode, you have Ziggler, you have Kevin Owens all credible wrestlers who are over enough to be champion. It makes no sense and on Raw you have the right champion Brock Lesnar on paper anyone name vs Brock Lesnar the winner is Brock Lesnar do I agree with Roman Reigns taking 55 AA'S and win after a weak spear no BraUn Strowman is made to be a monster but can't kick out of one F5 after he got up from everyone else finisher at the count of one, once again poor booking. They can't book properly Road Dogg, Michall Hayes, Triple H, Stephanie and Vince have to go. A team of over 20 creative writers can't get it right maybe because they are not wrestling fans, you have to be a wrestling fan to come up with creative storylineS for wrestling fans. Not regular creative writers how can you be creative about a subject you don't really get or understand? Bullet Club has success because NJPW knows how to book properly Lucha Underground has success because they know how to book properly the same with ROH. However WWE and GFW struggle so much because they don't have an interest of what they are giving the fans and what they are doing with their best talents it's whoever they see fit not the people who are making it happen and getting over Darien Sandow is a prime example he was so over in WWE but they released him because they couldn't figure out what to do with him after every lousy gimmicks they gave him he made work and they refuse to recognize it because it wasn't supposed to go that way. WWE needs better booking the live attendance is more than proof. Meanwhile Roman Reigns says don't talk to me if you can't make 100k at the gate they wouldn't even make that if the ticket prices weren't so high. Believe That!!
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:03 PM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices