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  #11  
Old 10-18-2017, 11:35 PM
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I hate to say it, but this looks to be the weakest WWE PPV of the year. It's even harder for me to make such a prediction with TLC which is one of my favorite PPV brands. I hate the nonsense behind Lesnar holding the title hostage. The Shield reunion is fine and I do expect The Shield's match to be fun to watch. However, The Miz is tied up with that match. So are the Raw Tag Team Champions. This card has a grand total of TWO title matches on it. And one is for the Cruiserweight Championship!!!! Ridiculous. I'm only looking forward to Mickie VS Alexa, Asuka VS Emma, The Shield's 3 VS 5 match, and to a much lesser extent Enzo's match.... Such a shame. TLC is normally such a fun show to watch. Maybe they will add the Tables, Ladders, or Chairs stipulations to more matches to help things out. Heck, they could do a Stairs match again. Not having a Universal Championship match, Tag Team Championship match, or even an Intercontinental Championship match is likely to REALLY hurt this show.
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  #12  
Old 10-19-2017, 02:41 AM
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I don't even think its about not having the title matches, its that the titles are involved in a nothing story. I'd be okay with Miz and the IC Title headlining if it was an actual feud worth a damn. I'd be 100% okay with Miz vs. Roman as the headline match, even with a screwy finish to set up the handicap match.

The rest of the card has had almost no build. The Women's Title is literally "You're old and crap and I'm young and good." And that's about it. Enzo is annoying, but he moves merch so Kalisto will drop the title he didn't deserve to even win, the tag match will be a stupid mess and end no one will come out for the better. The kickoff match between Sasha and Alicia Foxx was just thrown together. I'm more excited for the cruiserweight Power Point presentation that is supposed to take place. Bray and Finn are playing dress up, that is if Bray even makes the match. The reports is he is seriously sick and may not be able to wrestle on Sunday.

The worst part is the way this card has been built, every other match can be a classic and if the main event fails, then the card fails.
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  #13  
Old 10-19-2017, 04:02 AM
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When I was making the WZPC thread for this match, I genuinely couldn't believe the lack of good matches on this card. It's got to the point where I'm considering skipping it entirely. The matches are terribly booked, overbooked in some cases, and just illogical. 3 womens matches that don't make any sense, 2 Cruiserweight matches that might actually be the best match on the card, and a main event that crammed as many of the top level superstars into one match as they could. Having the Shield reunite is good on one hand as people wanted to see it and I'm sure it will be a good run. But you also take 3 main event guys and put them in the same match. There's no reason for 8 top level talents to be in that match when the WWE are struggling to put together a decent card. Terrible booking frankly.
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  #14  
Old 10-21-2017, 04:55 PM
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What a strange 24 hours this has been. TLC looked doomed to face the fate of being the worst major WWE show of the year. Now thanks to sudden reports of illnesses the WWE were forced to make drastic changes to the show. As bad as it may sound, it could be for the best. I genuinely hope the guys who are truly ill are able to recover soon. That being said.... The 3 VS 5 match is now more of a cluster mess than ever, but it should be all the more fun with Kurt being there instead of Reigns. Also WWE spared us of that horrible Sister Abigail match. Finn VS AJ could steal the whole show. Still, it's an odd card. Two cruiserweight matches on this show. And we still only have a grand total of two championship matches. I predict it will at least be better than Battleground or Fastlane now, though expectations are still low. Who knows. We'll find out sunday.
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  #15  
Old 10-22-2017, 05:34 PM
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Only good match is gonna be aj v finn. All other matches seem destined fir boredom, except fir the nostalgia of a returning Angle. Gonna watch, but expectations are low. (My 5 yr old is excited tho, ge just learned bout angle on the network lol)
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  #16  
Old 10-23-2017, 01:08 AM
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Tonight WWE held the 2017 edition of its Tables, Ladders, and Chairs event with its Raw brand and special guest, AJ Styles. A couple of last minute changes to this card made my anticipation for it grow from nearly non-existent to genuinely interested. While I do hope Reigns, Bray, and the others who got sick do get better soon, the changes to the card were for the better. Let's take a look at what took place on this show.

Pre-Show: Alicia Fox VS Sasha Banks
Yeah, no one cares. I like Sasha and she deserves better than this. No one is going to take Alicia Fox seriously as any kind of threat anytime soon.

Asuka VS Emma
I'm actually surprised that this went on first. I thought surely the Cruiserweights would have been the opening match. Asuka winning was the right call and so was Emma not geting squashed.

Jack Gallagher & Brian Kendrick VS Cedric Alexander & Rich Swann
This match felt SO out of place on a PPV card. It's not like they had champions who could totally have worked this event to reduce the need for filler matches like this one. Nice to see guys like Gallagher and Kendrick make a major event card like this one despite it seeming out of place. Gallagher and Kendrick should have won. Either one would be good contenders for Enzo's title. I couldn't care less about the other two guys.

Alexa Bliss VS Mickie James [Raw Women's Championship]
Not bad at all. Mickie looked very strong in her effort here and I thought a few times in the match that she might win. Alexa winning was absolutely the right call, however. Glad she retained.

Enzo Amore VS Kalisto [Cruiserweight Championship]
This was a boring match up until the ending. Enzo losing his voice hurt him too as his promos are by far the best thing about him.

Finn Balor VS AJ Styles
An unexpected Smackdown VS Raw match. The unfortunate circumstances regarding illnesses and card changes caused us to get a nice surprise here. AJ coming over from Smackdown to work a red brand PPV was great. While some inevitably will complain that this match had zero build to it, I had a lot of fun watching it. Finn winning made sense. He had the home-brand advantage. Regardless, really good match. The show of respect with the Too Sweet gesture was great also. I hope they work an actual feud sometime. This was infinitely better than the garbage we almost got with Bray. One would have to wonder what favor Smackdown asks of Raw in return. Maybe Finn works the blue brand's December event and we get a sequel to this match with time to build it up?

Jason Jordan VS Elias
Gosh this was boring. Not as bad as Enzo VS Kalisto, yet not far behind it. Jordan throwing vegetables at Elias was hilarious. The actual match wasn't very entertaining. Jordan sucks without Gable and it's becoming more obvious. They should have just stuck with the vegetable throwing spots. Heck with this being TLC he could have thrown Tomatos, Lettuce, and Celery. Yeah, I know. Still, that would have been more entertaining than this match was. It served its purpose of giving people a chance to rest in between the two huge matches at least.

Dean Ambrose & Seth Rollins & Kurt Angle VS Miz & Braun Strowman & Kane & The Bar [3 VS 5 Handicap TLC match]
Dang what a cluster mess of chaos this was, but at least it was the fun kind of chaotic. Angle looked awesome coming out in the riot gear with Seth and Dean in The Shield entrance. This show was built around The Shield's reunion so Kurt coming in to work this match when Roman got sick was a good call, and I give Kurt credit to being willing to try the Triplebomb spot. He did a really good job and this was the best match of the night. It was as good as a last minute cluster mess could have been. Didn't make much sense in the grand scheme of things, although it was a blast to watch. That is what matters in the end.

Overall Thoughts
This show was SO much better than it could have been. I can honestly say that this has to be the first time since probably as far back as Wrestlemania 31, that I have had that much fun with a show I had extremely low expectations for. Until the news of the card changes were released a couple of days ago, I had almost considered skipping the event. That changed everything. We were spared of having to sit through Bray pretending to be his dead sister (for now anyway) and of a forced Roman Reigns victory (also for now). A Universal Championship defense would have helped, though that's a topic for another thread's discussion. The main other thing I would have changed was adding more stipulations. A Ladder match, a Chairs match, and a Tables match should have been on the card. Still a decent show. Only real downsides were the Jordan VS Elias match and the Cruiserweight Championship match. Skip those. Watch the main event for sure and both women's division matches if you missed this show. TLC comes in at #5 of the year so far, when without the last minute changes it likely would have joined Fastlane and Battleground in the bottom tier. Next will be Survivor Series, which appears to be keeping up with the Smackdown VS Raw theme from last year.


Dagger's 2017 WWE PPV Rankings
1. Wrestlemania 33
2. Great Balls Of Fire 2017
3. Summerslam 2017
4. Money In The Bank 2017
5. TLC 2017
6. Elimination Chamber 2017
7. Royal Rumble 2017
8. Hell In A Cell 2017
9. No Mercy 2017
10. Backlash 2017
11. Payback 2017
12. Extreme Rules 2017
13. Battleground 2017
14. Fastlane 2017
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"And that's the bottom line, because DAGGER DIAS said so!"

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  #17  
Old 10-23-2017, 06:35 AM
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I decided to not watch this show live and just pvr it and watch it later. So keepimg that in mind, even with fast fowardring all the crap. I still found the even like a basic run of the mill episode of raw.

My favorite matches we're emma vs asuka which at thought was a great way to introduce asuka to the main audience. Aj vs finn was really good. Top 5 wwe match of 2017 in wwe and while the main event was a little long, I love how they did the strowman face turn.

As for the rest, I felt just like placeholders matches. The worst stuff on the show was this whole elias/jason jordan stuff and the match was so sloppy.

In the end, I was able to watch a 3 hours plus event and the preshow in a hour and a half with all the crap I was able to skip so it went quicker and it made the event better.
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  #18  
Old 10-23-2017, 12:47 PM
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I keep switching between the idea that TLC was a massive cluster fuck, or it actually wasn't that bad. I think it'll take a while for me to decide which one it is. The main event was very chaotic as many people have pointed out, but I really enjoyed it. It gave me that feeling that wrestling did when I was kid. It was fun, unpredictable and really pushed the boundaries within the wrestling world as to what we could actually take seriously. It was fantastic in that sense. Some people will hate on that and that's fine I guess, but I can't see how anyone can objectively say that it wasn't fun, even if none of the booking made very little sense. Kurt Angle looked fantastic and I really hope that this leads to some more matches for him. Mixing it up with newer guys was really cool too.

AJ Styles vs. Finn Bálor was absolutely fantastic and there was never really any doubt that it would be. What I find ironic is that this was a last minute edition, and it stole the show. That should be enough indication to WWE that things need to change. The Demon vs. Sister Abigail interested me, but I would have been bored with the match itself. Both deserve so much better. A blessing in disguise in many ways that this had to be added.

But what else is left of this card? It was a very weak card. Not much was going on. I was pleasantly surprised by Asuka vs. Emma. It lasted longer and showed much more of an offensive Emma than I thought we would see. I do like Emma but she hasn't had an easy time of it on the main roster. The Raw Women's Championship match was alright too. And the two cruiserweight matches were pretty boring for me. I try to appreciate what they do, but I still don't think that this 205 Live era is living up to the standards of the cruiserweights back in the 2003-05ish period. I won't even bother comparing them to the WCW era of the cruiserweights.

Overall, the show was meh. A truly fun main event, even if it wasn't a spectacle. We got a fantastic wrestling match too. But does that make up for the rest of the card? I really don't think so, because the rest of the time I was bored. Perhaps that's the problem when you invest all of your main event talent into just one massive match.
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  #19  
Old 10-23-2017, 03:19 PM
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There were plenty of Ts and Cs, but did anyone climb an L? I know it was just the one match, but I remember them jumping off of a garbage truck and Braun going through the stage...but am I forgetting any ladder climbing? I really hope they scrap TLC as a PPV and just use TLC matches within other PPVs when it makes sense.
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  #20  
Old 10-23-2017, 04:07 PM
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There were plenty of Ts and Cs, but did anyone climb an L? I know it was just the one match, but I remember them jumping off of a garbage truck and Braun going through the stage...but am I forgetting any ladder climbing? I really hope they scrap TLC as a PPV and just use TLC matches within other PPVs when it makes sense.
Ambrose and Rollins jumped off ladders to smash Kane and Strowman through tables. Kurt speared people with a ladder, they did a little ladder spot with a ladder lariat to multiple guys on the ramp. But I agree, TLC is a crap name/gimmick for a PPV and should just be added to Halloween Havoc or something worthwhile.

Or a least have a few matches with tables, ladders and chairs instead of just one.
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