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  #21  
Old 09-30-2017, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Yaz View Post
This is a lot of words just to say “shut up and like what WWE gives you.” Which is completely the wrong line of thought. If you don’t like something, then you should do your best to change it before you give up on it. That’s what a fair number of fans are trying to do. They want to see change because the product isn’t to their liking.

And comparing Marvel to WWE isn’t an apples to apples comparison because Marvel is following a well established script most of the time while WWE is completely new most of the time. And people do bitch about Marvel at times, but they typically give fans what they want. That’s all you have to do is deliver a product the fans enjoy and the money will come. No need to play this “shut up and take it” routine.
Agreed. It would seem that with both attendance at live shows, TV ratings dipping, some fans aren't taking the "shut up and enjoy" what we put out there, aren't taking that advice.

Sure you can turn off the TV might not be a blip on their radar, but not buying a ticket to a RAW, SD Live or house show, directly affects their bottom line. That means merchandise sales will be down amoung other things. Here in Toronto you can still sell out the ACC for a RAW, but some cities in the US are getting maybe 4,000 to 6,000 for a RAW. That is pitiful when you consider these arena's can fit close to 16,000 paying customers. That's one hell of a drop.

Who to blame the fans, I think not. Wrestling fans are a niche group, piss them off and you might lose them for good. Yea we are probably in the worst part of the year with the NFL just starting up, and the run up to Mania will bring a lot of people back, but you can't start counting on one show a year to keep the company going.

This year in particular has been a hard one to get through. Putting one belt on an absent champion didn't work the last time, it's not really working this time either. Not only that, we know he's only holding it till Mania when Reigns will slay the beast. No surprises and with what appears to be a champion that some don't want doesn't leave one much to get excited about.

On SD Live you have Jinder Mahal, one of the most boring wrestlers holding the other title. I was willing to give Mahal a chance but he is kind of bombing. When the champ comes out and no one gives a crap, not a good sign.

It's hilarious though that only the hardcore IWC will be the only ones to see Goldberg's tweets. The WWE target audience these days isn't old enough to even have a Twitter account. The WWE can say what they want and send out as many messengers that they have, it doesn't change the fact that right now wrestling is kind of sucking.
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2017, 02:00 PM
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Was watching some youtube lists other day. There was top 10 wrestlers who refused to drop the belt to another wrestlers. Nothing groundbreaking, lots of Shawn and Montreal Screwjob at no1. But one example sticked to my head. In Wrestlemania 9 Bret lost to Yokozuna and Hogan immediately won the title from Yoko. Basically Hogan didnt like Hart and considered him inferior. So when he found out that Hart would be dropping the belt, well, there was time for Hulkster to show that he is always on top, brotha. And he was cheered for that move. A lot.

Now, imagine happening it now. Cena doesnt want to job to, for example, AJ Styles. Styles loses the title to generic foreign heel like Mahal and Cena just beats Mahal in 20 seconds and takes the title right after that. Crowd would be livid and Cena would be booed out of building.

So, you see, Goldie is right. As much as I am sure Bret had its fans that were extremely unhappy, most of crowd just did go with it and celebrated with Hogan. Bret time at top has come pretty soon so its not like he lost something in Hogans ego game. So, yeah, sometimes its just better to suspend disbelief and enjoy and good things could come.
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  #23  
Old 09-30-2017, 02:51 PM
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This is why WWE is failing. "Our product is amazing! Please continue watching and cheer Roman Reigns..."

Yeah yeah we get it. WWE is declining and they refuse to change anything. It's sad.
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  #24  
Old 09-30-2017, 05:23 PM
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I read a lot of fans are not showing up to tapings because they don't like the product or because they finally decided to leave and go watch something else. But the one thing that we seem to forget about this is that it's like this every year, it's the trend for the WWE around that time and since they pretty much the biggest game in town and they know that they are getting those big sponsors check and others outside money from investor and their tv deals and the network that seem to be going pretty good, they don'T need that as much tickets sales to make a profit because merchandise sales will stay steady anyway since 75% of their merchandise sales comes from the website. The rest comes from live events and that mostly families that goes to those so that mean that they can easily get between 100$ and 300$ per families on merch sales, that's without counting the amount that they are getting from tickets sales.

So they're not really worry about low attendance at raw and smackdown tapings or that the ratings are not as high as before because they know that the next few months are dead months and they are in bracing it instead of doing something to get fans coming to the show because quite frankly, the few thounsand fans that are not showing on to the show right now, will return around the holiday period and during wrestlemania period. Out of 12 months, they have maybe 2 or 3 dead months every year so it's not like it's a big deal for them money wise.

The hardcore fans will always comes back to WWE no matter what, they will right now they stop caring because nothing is happening so they go an watch something else then when royal rumble time comes around, they will pretty much all come back like they do pretty much every year. They should only be worried about this situation if this continues past the holiday season and into wrestlemania season until then i think we just need to be patient and either enjoy the show or stop watching until mania season when they will put some effort into the product again.
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  #25  
Old 09-30-2017, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Yaz View Post
This is a lot of words just to say “shut up and like what WWE gives you.” Which is completely the wrong line of thought. If you don’t like something, then you should do your best to change it before you give up on it. That’s what a fair number of fans are trying to do. They want to see change because the product isn’t to their liking.

And comparing Marvel to WWE isn’t an apples to apples comparison because Marvel is following a well established script most of the time while WWE is completely new most of the time. And people do bitch about Marvel at times, but they typically give fans what they want. That’s all you have to do is deliver a product the fans enjoy and the money will come. No need to play this “shut up and take it” routine.
Seriously? WWE is "Completely new most of the time..."? It's the most formulaic of entertainment products out there, more so that anything Marvel has ever put out. Vince hit on a "magic formula" in the 80's and tries ad nauseum to repeat it... Until recently, it was an Apples to Apples situation because RAW and Agents Of SHIELD were direct competition on a Monday Night... When there is no other legit wrestling competition, EVERY form of media, entertainment and pastime is competition. That's what IWC people don't realise, grasp or accept. WWE do.

The money IS coming still... that's the key... WWE is not only still alive financially but still turning profits.

As I said, try telling Disney to change Star Wars or your fave NFL team coach to play your choice of QB rather than the one best for their result... Tell the owner he's lost it cos he disagrees... Will he still make money? Yes... will he listen to you? No... Now if enough fans turn against, things may change but as long as profits are relatively stable... why should they when crowds still show up? So if they won't change... why should Vince?

Frankly, this comment sums up my and Goldust's point. You feel entitled to comment and tell people the "shut up and take it" view is wrong... it's the ONLY viewpoint WWE can take. Say they listened and binned Roman in favour of Cesaro, only for him to spectacularly flop. Years of investment is wasted in both guys... there's nothing to say in 3 years time Roman v Cesaro won't be headlining WM if they let things take their natural course... but the only thing worse than forcing someone fans don't want is botching someone they do...the ballad of CM Punk proves that.

Like I said, if you can't sit through 3 hours of RAW either on TV or go to a live WWE show and "just have fun" then don't watch... if it's live most of the guys working the show would rather you stayed home than be there to start an "oh so helpful" chant or be a smark... Even better, if you bought a ticket and decide "enough is enough" pass it on to a kid who has never been, let them enjoy the show you can't... if not, bitch as much as you like... but don't EVER expect to be taken seriously by WWE or think you can affect them. You REALLY can't...
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  #26  
Old 09-30-2017, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Yaz View Post
This is a lot of words just to say “shut up and like what WWE gives you.” Which is completely the wrong line of thought. If you don’t like something, then you should do your best to change it before you give up on it. That’s what a fair number of fans are trying to do. They want to see change because the product isn’t to their liking.
But it's this never ending, ceaseless, constant barrage of criticism, complaints and flat out bitching over just about anything and everything that I think Goldust is responding to more than anything else. Even when fans SEEM to get what they want, it just goes on and on. Many fans and writers alike want Wrestler A to get a push, but start throwing their feces like chimps at the zoo if they don't agree with the mechanics of his push. Fans and writers alike say they want edgier content, yet take to social media to expand on their moral outrage if they get it. Many fans and writers praise stiffer shots and dangerous spots outside of WWE, but they'll rake WWE over the coals if they adopt it for not caring about the well being of the wrestlers. I'm a wrestling fan, have been for literally as long as I can remember, and even I get tired of the never ending negativity of fans who're never satisfied or even hold WWE to a completely different set of standards.

That's not to say that some complaints aren't valid, because they are, but I think sometimes people are just criticizing because it's the norm for posting online. For every positive I read, it's not unusual to see 10 or 20 negatives and if people genuinely do claim to dislike the product so much, yet continue to watch and keep up with what's going on, then the stupidity is astounding as there are so many other interests people can devote their time to. There are so many choices for entertainment available these days that I just don't buy into the argument of fans watching out of habit, I think it's meant more as a means of justifying why they watch it rather than admit that MAYBE, just MAYBE they don't dislike it as much as they put on. Why? Because being cynical, pointing out flaws, rebelling against what's popular and all that is always so much cooler.

But yeah, this will blow over quickly as people will brush it off because it's Goldust who said it. I mean, because he's not a main eventer it's easy to just brush off the nearly 30 years he's spent wrestling in front of crowds ranging from less than 100 to more than 20,000. Brush off the fact that he's literally grown up around and learned everything he knows about the goings on both in front of and behind the camera from some of the biggest names in the history of the industry, including his own father, so there's no way he can have the slightest idea what he's talking about. People wouldn't dismiss this so easily if beloveds like Foley, Austin or Taker said it and I'd be willing to be that, more or less, they probably feel the same way as they know what Goldust knows.
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  #27  
Old 09-30-2017, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack-Hammer View Post
But it's this never ending, ceaseless, constant barrage of criticism, complaints and flat out bitching over just about anything and everything that I think Goldust is responding to more than anything else. Even when fans SEEM to get what they want, it just goes on and on. Many fans and writers alike want Wrestler A to get a push, but start throwing their feces like chimps at the zoo if they don't agree with the mechanics of his push. Fans and writers alike say they want edgier content, yet take to social media to expand on their moral outrage if they get it. Many fans and writers praise stiffer shots and dangerous spots outside of WWE, but they'll rake WWE over the coals if they adopt it for not caring about the well being of the wrestlers. I'm a wrestling fan, have been for literally as long as I can remember, and even I get tired of the never ending negativity of fans who're never satisfied or even hold WWE to a completely different set of standards.

That's not to say that some complaints aren't valid, because they are, but I think sometimes people are just criticizing because it's the norm for posting online. For every positive I read, it's not unusual to see 10 or 20 negatives and if people genuinely do claim to dislike the product so much, yet continue to watch and keep up with what's going on, then the stupidity is astounding as there are so many other interests people can devote their time to. There are so many choices for entertainment available these days that I just don't buy into the argument of fans watching out of habit, I think it's meant more as a means of justifying why they watch it rather than admit that MAYBE, just MAYBE they don't dislike it as much as they put on. Why? Because being cynical, pointing out flaws, rebelling against what's popular and all that is always so much cooler.

But yeah, this will blow over quickly as people will brush it off because it's Goldust who said it. I mean, because he's not a main eventer it's easy to just brush off the nearly 30 years he's spent wrestling in front of crowds ranging from less than 100 to more than 20,000. Brush off the fact that he's literally grown up around and learned everything he knows about the goings on both in front of and behind the camera from some of the biggest names in the history of the industry, including his own father, so there's no way he can have the slightest idea what he's talking about. People wouldn't dismiss this so easily if beloveds like Foley, Austin or Taker said it and I'd be willing to be that, more or less, they probably feel the same way as they know what Goldust knows.
I don’t think it’s so much that people are ignoring Goldust because he isn’t a main event guy or an all time great. They are ignoring him and being upset because this is the same drivel that always comes from a WWE employee when criticism is lobbied against the company. I understand that anyone who is under contract is going to screw themself over huge if they say “Yeah you know what, Roman Reigns is pushed too hard and Brock Lesnar is lazy and needs to go.” I get that it would basically be career suicide for someone in the company to say that on social media.

The anger comes because anytime someone raises a complaint, the wrestlers get overly defensive and basically either pull a Road Dogg and go on a huge blocking spree like his name was Trump, or they offer up what Goldie did and they basically come out and say “You better like it or else.”

People always say, well if you don’t like WWE, then there are alternatives but the truth is, WWE is the most easily accessible wrestling program, far and away easier than others. Impact is always on the verge of dying, Lucha Underground isn’t looking like season four is going to happen, New Japan in America requires you to pay or download illegally, most indies have some sort of subscription fee to access their taped events. WWE, for better or worse, is the wrestling company and fans just want to feel like their voice is heard, something that really hasn’t happened since Bryan.

And I agree man, sometimes the fans will complain no matter what, because that’s just what social media and the connected world has lead to, but wanting your voice heard and voicing your displeasure with a less than stellar product is fine with me.
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  #28  
Old 09-30-2017, 11:09 PM
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I think people get frustrated because they know WWE can be a much more entertaining product than what it currently is. Does that mean Raw and Smackdown completely suck? Of course not. For the most part, I enjoy watching. I rarely watch live and have the benefit of fast forwarding through the stuff that I don't really feel like sitting through, but even so, I generally end up spending about 2 hours on Raw and an hour and a half on Smackdown so it's not like I'm skipping three-quarters of the show. Still, I constantly find myself thinking that if Vince and Co. stopped playing it so damn safe 95% of the time, we could honestly get a pretty incredible 3-hour viewing experience. With the amount of talent WWE currently has, there's no excuse for the amount of dull crap that's put out there at times.

Fans have a right to voice their displeasure. There are some who will complain just to complain but thankfully, since I pretty much only frequent this site and nothing else, I'm not exposed to too much of that idiocy. From what I see on here, people have pretty justifiable complaints and constantly being told to "suck it up and enjoy the shit that you're being fed" is not only annoying, but for fans who have been through the good times and know how satisfying the WWE experience can be, it borders on insulting.

At the end of the day, people have different tastes, and, especially in the case of wrestling fans, there are always going to be a group of people who don't like the direction the company's going in. But if you're putting out an exciting and cutting edge product, that group would almost certainly be the minority. That the vast majority of internet fans can find so much to bitch about probably indicates that WWE can do a much better job, and the frustrating part is, it feels like they know it too but are content with simply putting out a passable show.
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  #29  
Old 10-01-2017, 01:10 PM
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Goldust isn’t wrong, he also isn’t 100% on point either. Not all criticism is bitching and complaining, not all bitching and complaining is criticism. You could make the most thoughtful and well-constructed criticism of WWE – supported by real data and valid points – and someone would still roll along and tell you to shut up and stop whining.

Goldust’s first tweet is terse, but the sentiment he expresses is a valid argument. There are some fans who seem to exist only to crap all over anything WWE does. For each of those fans, there are people who want to critically discuss wrestling.
The fan Goldust is engaging with on Twitter is critical of Bray Wyatt. The same fan claims to have a chemistry PHD in his profile, he also claims to enjoy “smoking dope and drinking beer.”

The tone of “bitching” might not actually be there; Goldie is a biased WWE employee that may see any criticism of his beloved company being unwarranted.

The Bray Wyatt vs Finn Balor feud is now heading into its third PPV. Why are these two fighting anymore? There’s no belt, and there’s an obvious Wyatt Family vs Bullet Club feud that would be far more interesting, but that might require giving Balor more character than they want at this point.
There are genuine criticisms to be made here. Lesnar absconding with the title for most of 2017 has made these two feud in a vacuum. These are entertaining guys, but both should be after titles at this point. Balor hasn’t received his one on one rematch for the title he never lost, Bray started the year as WWE Champion. Now he just wants to stalk babyfaces in the midcard again?
Both guys took two steps forward in 2016, now they’re two steps back.

So, am I bitching or am I crafting a valid criticism of the product? The truth is that anyone reading this brings their own biases, like Goldust did. If you too are critical of the product or this feud, you might be incensed to start a dialogue with me. If you think I’m whining, you’ll tell me to shut up. Maybe you love this feud and you’ll present your counterargument.

Goldust is too close to this feud too as he’s been working with these two on TV recently. You know he’s kicking it with them backstage – planning their matches and where they can go next.

There are awful trolls out there who crawl out of their caves just to dump on the WWE product regardless of quality. There are those of us who like to discuss. Dropping a blanket statement to get people to “quit bitching” is fundamentally flawed as online discussion is paramount to fan engagement.

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  #30  
Old 10-05-2017, 03:10 AM
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The day I don't like anything in WWE, I will stop complaining and just leave watching. However, until I like some of the segments and matches, I will notify my displeasure when I don't like something. WWE can listen it and improve or ignore it and continue. But anyone who watches WWE should give some amount of feedback to improve the product. Feedback should be constructive. Be it praise or criticism. "Stop Watching" mentally never helps though. If someone hates on everything WWE does, I agree that he should rather stop watching. For his own good. However, if someone feels that something is bad but something is good as well and you're encouraging him to stop giving feedback then you're wrong.
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