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  #41  
Old 08-22-2017, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
So why weren't they killed off in the early '90's genius, if 'losing money" was the only barometer.
Did AOLTW literally kill WCW? Yes. That ignores why WCW was in a position to die. WCW put themselves in that position.

Think critically.

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Well we can only go by they said because I don't know and you don't know and both have said they constantly had to deal with meddling executives even during 1996-1999. Why do you think Bischoff was burned out at the end of 1998 and had to take a sabbatical? Those were the profitable years yet he had to constantly deal with meddling executives trying to undermine WCW.
I'm pretty sure Bischoff was fired and wrestling is a 24/7, 365 job. It's shocking that more people don't get burned out.

Quote:
As far as whether WCW would've been sold that's pure speculation. Profitable business have been sold before so it's not unheard of. If WCW was valued at 100 million in 1998 and someone came in with a 200 million offer to buy, who knows whether Siegel (if he was in charge at the time) would've sold or not. I would bet they would considering Brad Siegel had no ties whatsoever to WCW. He just put in charge of the company similar to Kip Frey and Jim Herd before him. He didn't own WCW like McMahon owned the WWE so why wouldn't he sell if given the opportunity.
Speculation.

Quote:
News flash: They were in that "position" for most of their existence as you pointed out in your first answer. The only difference is Ted Turner was willing to eat the losses. AOL was not.
Again, did AOLTW literally kill WCW? Yes. That ignores why WCW was in a position to die. WCW put themselves in that position.

Quote:
News flash: You need to acquire content for the network. It doesn't just happen overnight and WWE 24/7 and the DVD's featuring WCW/NWA material started soon after the acquisition.
You said specifically it was for the Network. A Network that didn't exist yet. I get wanting it for the future but that is not what you said.

Unless you meant WWE 24/7. Unknown if they had the idea for WWE 24/7 yet.

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They knew damn well the main talent wasn't going to opt out of their guaranteed contracts with Turner before they bought WCW. They might have tried but it just a futile effort. It was all about acquiring the video library.
They probably were not 100% aware of what wrestlers WCW had at the time. They probably weren't watching nor paying a whole lot of attention to them (or at least the top brass were not). But glad to see you admit you were wrong about them never trying to get WCW a TV deal. Still need to get you to admit the conspiracy about Brad and Snyder is pure bullshit.
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  #42  
Old 08-22-2017, 08:06 PM
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Did AOLTW literally kill WCW? Yes. That ignores why WCW was in a position to die. WCW put themselves in that position.

Think critically.
It was in that position because AOL TW was also in that position. If AOL TW were making billions of dollars WCW would not have been sold. You think critically.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure Bischoff was fired and wrestling is a 24/7, 365 job. It's shocking that more people don't get burned out.
Bischoff took a leave of absence in Feb of 1999 and handed the reins to Kevin Nash. He was not fired. He was not fired until Sept. of 1999 when they brought in Bill Busch.

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You said specifically it was for the Network. A Network that didn't exist yet. I get wanting it for the future but that is not what you said.

Unless you meant WWE 24/7. Unknown if they had the idea for WWE 24/7 yet.
Well 24/7 started just a few years after the acquisition of WCW so obviously they had the idea for it well it advance and they certainly had the idea for the DVD's.

Quote:
They probably were not 100% aware of what wrestlers WCW had at the time. They probably weren't watching nor paying a whole lot of attention to them (or at least the top brass were not). But glad to see you admit you were wrong about them never trying to get WCW a TV deal. Still need to get you to admit the conspiracy about Brad and Snyder is pure bullshit.
I bet they were aware considering they had lost a bunch of talent to WCW (and also acquired talent from WCW). I didn't say I was wrong about that. They gave a half-assed effort knowing they wouldn't take the deal. It's the same as not trying.

Why is it bullshit? Siegel wanted to sell to his friend Snyder who was in charge of WWE, Snyder says the ONLY way WWE will re enter negotiations is if all WCW programming is cancelled on Turner stations then *POOF* ALL WCW programming is cancelled on Turner stations. Sounds pretty factual to me. More like your theory about "ad revenue" is bullshit
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  #43  
Old 08-26-2017, 12:24 PM
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That is pure speculation. I deal with facts.
The fact was WCW lost $60 MILLION in 2000. The Fact was they still had a bunch of "safe harbor" contracts that were killing the company. The fact was AOL and Time/Warner wanted nothing to do with pro wrestling, either WCW, WWE, or ECW. The fact is that Bischoff's offer was contingent on WCW still being on TNT or TBS. The fact is that the job of a PUBLIC company is to protect the fiduciary interests of their shareholders. How long do you think AOL/Time Warner was gong to hold on an entity hemorrhaging money before their shareholders start squawking?

Face it: WCW got put out of its misery.
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  #44  
Old 08-26-2017, 05:38 PM
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It was in that position because AOL TW was also in that position. If AOL TW were making billions of dollars WCW would not have been sold. You think critically.
So AOLTW made WCW put on a shit product? Not oh say, Vince Russo.

Quote:
I bet they were aware considering they had lost a bunch of talent to WCW (and also acquired talent from WCW). I didn't say I was wrong about that. They gave a half-assed effort knowing they wouldn't take the deal. It's the same as not trying.

Why is it bullshit? Siegel wanted to sell to his friend Snyder who was in charge of WWE, Snyder says the ONLY way WWE will re enter negotiations is if all WCW programming is cancelled on Turner stations then *POOF* ALL WCW programming is cancelled on Turner stations. Sounds pretty factual to me. More like your theory about "ad revenue" is bullshit
They got really close to WWE WCW becoming a thing. TV schedule, logos, ads, announcers, etc.

That's not exactly what happened. You still misunderstand my point about ad revenue. Read through my previous posts to get a better understanding.

Unless you can show a firm grasp of my points, then we are done here.
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  #45  
Old 08-27-2017, 03:57 PM
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I have a horse....that horse used to win me lots of races and make lots of money.....that horse is now lame with three legs....it just costs me money to keep it going with no return whatsoever on my outlays....I have the choice between turning the horse into glue or keep paying it's stable bills...I kill that horse and try to keep my loses as low as possible.

(BTW, WCW was the horse, and I am AOL/Time Warner.)
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  #46  
Old 08-28-2017, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
But a company that just a couple of years ago was making millions of dollars. Let's see I could either sell for a measly 2.5 mil and get nothing or I could invest in a company with the potential to generate tens of millions of dollars? I would take that risk.

So bankrupt companies can't make a comeback? Maybe you should look up Apple.
What happened to Yahoo, Laura Ashley, Blackberry, Nokia? In business if you have one mis step it can ruin the entire company. It is very hard to save a business. Especially one that is losing millions and millions in 2 years.

Bischoff loves to talk about AOLTW taking away the distribution rights from the deal, but Bischoff still didn't go through with sale because no other major network wanted WCW. It was a toxic brand. Bischoff and co. love to use the excuse that the big bad execs at AOLTW killed WCW, but if WCW was worth anyhing somebody would have seen the value in it, and tried to save it.
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  #47  
Old 09-07-2017, 09:24 PM
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AOL/TW (and more specifically, Jamie Kellnar) just happened to be the person who signed the death warrant for WCW. The Company had been hemorrhaging money for years, and was basically a laughing stock by the time 2001 rolled around. The bloom was well and truly off the rose at that point (and, for the record, the bloom was starting to drop off the TV ratings for wrestling as a whole anyway; it would be a couple years before that was clear, but the highest points of the Attitude Era were behind us in 01).

So what exactly was WCW worth in 2001? Basically you had the IP itself (which was so toxic that nobody wanted a piece of it, not even Fox Sports who was just negotiating with the nearly bankrupt ECW for a stripped syndication show just a couple of months earlier) and a few of the midcard talents floating around. All the big names had fat Time Warner deals that they were content as a cucumber to sit on and collect, simply biding their time (a fact which panned out with the Invasion, with the exception of guys like DDP and Booker T). You had the video library which had value, certainly, but really its value is more weighted in retrospect than it was at the time (before streaming networks became technologically feasible).

So you have a toxic IP with bit players (comparatively speaking, and especially to the financial backers Bischoff was using to form Fusionent), no distribution to speak of (and thus no way to make money in the short-term, without further investment beyond the purchase price) and no momentum to speak of either. In short, the Fusionent deal was always on shaky ground, without distribution it was no sale.

Point to note: WWF actually had looked at buying WCW before the Fusionent deal was announced, back around November of 2000 (having the right of first refusal from the Razor/Diesel IP lawsuit settlement a few years prior), and they passed on it. Bischoff only got his deal so close to passing through because they were literally the only people interested in buying it at that point, and once distribution was lost, even they backed out. WWF then only got interested again because TW was selling the whole thing for a song.
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  #48  
Old 10-17-2017, 07:54 AM
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The bottom line is very very simple AOL Time Warner are the reason WCW went out of business,not losing money,almost 90% of all the major companies on the planet lose money but WCW was in control of their product although not at the highest quality near the end,the reason why WCW died was not because of bankruptcy WCW was not bankrupt many companies are in the negative,WCW was in the negative at that time yes but it does not matter that is not the reason why it ended,it had nothing to do with financial misfortunes it was about simply put Time Warner AOL not wanting it on TV anymore because of some of the racyness that was going on and they didn't want anything to do with wrestling that's why they sold it for the amount that they did.. very stupid and tactless.
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