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  #11  
Old 08-14-2017, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
Yes. As relentless1 stated no one actually loses money in a multi media corporation like Time Warner with a multitude of assets. As stated previously, they write off the losses and compare that to earnings. It's a tax break. As I said Nitro was still the highest rated show on TNT so it was generating ad revenue and still pulling in a sizeable TV audience.I would suspect they would eventually cut costs as contracts expired and downsized production costs but there is absolutely no reason to suspect they would have sold the company despite "horrible storylines."
So WCW's demise has nothing at all to do with the mismanagement of the company, the horrible contracts they gave to talent, the losing fan base, etc. It all falls down to AOL/Time Warner? That's what you believe?
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  #12  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by relentless1 View Post
AOL/ Time Warner is the only reason this company went out of business; Ted Turner kept WCW around for years when it was bleeding cash so thats not even a factor for guys that didn't like wrestling.

Nitro was still one of the highest rated shows on TNT by far and thats what network execs care about; if your theory about them canning WCW because of the money were true they they'd have let Eric buy it and gave him the TV time but they didn't; they didn't want wrestling around them period.

This is the only reason that WCW folded and thats a fact; don't let WWEs agenda of superiority make you think that somehow storylines of a wrestling company affected the real corporate world LOL
This. Right here. Enough said. Case closed.
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  #13  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SSJPhenom View Post
So WCW's demise has nothing at all to do with the mismanagement of the company, the horrible contracts they gave to talent, the losing fan base, etc. It all falls down to AOL/Time Warner? That's what you believe?

its the truth; hard as it seems for you to grasp. The real world doesn't concern itself with storylines of a wrestling company... thats a drop in the bucket to guys like that in the corporate world.

The cold fact is that Nitro was still the highest rated show on TNT so they had absolutely no reason to cancel it; they cancelled Nitro because THEY DIDNT LIKE WRESTLING. Thats it. Simple as that. They could've sold to Eric and had the money losing company off their books and at the same time still bring in ad revenue from the Nitro time slot. Any businessman worth their salt would take that deal... unless they personally didn't like the product they were dealing with...
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  #14  
Old 08-14-2017, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by SSJPhenom View Post
So WCW's demise has nothing at all to do with the mismanagement of the company, the horrible contracts they gave to talent, the losing fan base, etc. It all falls down to AOL/Time Warner? That's what you believe?
WWE has been mismanaged for well over a decade. It's complete garbage yet it's still on TV because some people will watch anything.

If you deal with 'facts' it was the merger that ended WCW. In 2001, WCW was putting out a horrible product in comparison to what it had been producing 2 or 3 years prior. But the product could have continued on under Bischoff/Hervey for years had Siegel not conspired with WWE. There were so many things wrong with WCW (just like there are many things wrong with current WWE) but the actual 'demise' was a result of one thing: the merger. Period.
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  #15  
Old 08-15-2017, 12:30 AM
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Oh dear god. Excuse me while you people make me lose my shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
I had to to LOL at this post. AOL-Time Warner was one of the, if not THE biggest financial disasters of all time. AOL Time Warner lost over 99 BILLION in 2002 alone. WCW was a drop in the bucket of this monstrosity. Everything was bleeding money not just WCW. AOL stock went from 226 billion to 20 billion. News Flash: WCW would've been sold if they made or lost 500 million dollars.
Idiot.

Quote:
The issue here is Eric Bischoff put together a group on investors ready to buy WCW. Fusient Media Ventures. They were offering close to 50 million to purchase WCW and were offering Time Warner a minority stake in the company to keep WCW on TNT and TBS (keep in mind Nitro was still the highest rated cable show on TNT.)
Ratings mean nothing. Ad revenue is king. A show pulling in 100 million viewers but zero viewers during commercial breaks will be canceled. Why? ADVERTISERS KEEP TV SHOWS ON THE AIR NOT RATINGS.

Quote:
Brad Siegel, head of WCW at the time, conspired with Stu Snyder (then-president of WWE) to make sure WWE could acquire WCW. Snyder and Siegel had a previous relationship. The only way WWE could counter Fusient's offer was if the WCW shows were cancelled. With no TV WCW was worthless. Siegel convinced Kellner to cancel the shows. With the shows cancelled Fusient was forced to withdraw their offer and WCW was sold for a paltry 2.5 million to WWE. There were four offers that were much more than what WWE offered. Siegel basically sabotaged his own company.

THAT is the TRUE story of how WCW died.
Nothing to do with losing money, ad problems (low income of wrestling fans is a HUGE problem), crossover audience problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentless1 View Post
AOL/ Time Warner is the only reason this company went out of business; Ted Turner kept WCW around for years when it was bleeding cash so thats not even a factor for guys that didn't like wrestling.
Ted Turner lost power in the merger. This was also when WCW was losing 8 billion dollars a year. Connect the dots.

Quote:
Nitro was still one of the highest rated shows on TNT by far and thats what network execs care about; if your theory about them canning WCW because of the money were true they they'd have let Eric buy it and gave him the TV time but they didn't; they didn't want wrestling around them period.
They were still willing to sell to Bischoff. He didn't want it without TV.

Wrestling audiences don't crossover with other shows. A complaint thrown around a lot when SD was on SyFy. Meaning they could replace WCW, lose audience but gain ad money and crossover potential. Win-win.

Quote:
This is the only reason that WCW folded and thats a fact; don't let WWEs agenda of superiority make you think that somehow storylines of a wrestling company affected the real corporate world LOL
Then why did no other TV company want WCW badly? Only FX did and they didn't offer enough to keep Bischoff and others interested.

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Originally Posted by relentless1 View Post
lol do you know anything about how corporate taxes work? companies that lose money actually save money; their losses are compared against their earnings and this lowers yearly taxes for said corporation so even if it was about the money they'd have kept it if they liked it just to get the tax break
That is why so many companies purposely lose $100 million every year right? Also nothing to do with ad problems and crossover problems. Nah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
Well you're statement that WCW "killed" WCW is factually incorrect. The FACT is WCW could have lived on with the sale to Fusient and keeping WCW programming on TNT. The FACT is Time Warner could've made a hell of a lot more money by selling to Fusient and OWNING a minority stake in WCW rather than selling off to WWE for nothing and basically killing the company off. The "state" of WCW had nothing to do with what ended the company. Like I said, it was being sold one way of the other.
Nope. Ad problems say hi again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
Yes. As relentless1 stated no one actually loses money in a multi media corporation like Time Warner with a multitude of assets. As stated previously, they write off the losses and compare that to earnings. It's a tax break. As I said Nitro was still the highest rated show on TNT so it was generating ad revenue and still pulling in a sizeable TV audience.I would suspect they would eventually cut costs as contracts expired and downsized production costs but there is absolutely no reason to suspect they would have sold the company despite "horrible storylines."
It was not generating ad revenue. Bischoff himself confirmed this. He even said there would be articles written about the dangers of advertising with wrestling due to the low income of wrestling fans. Something WWE still deals with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentless1 View Post
its the truth; hard as it seems for you to grasp. The real world doesn't concern itself with storylines of a wrestling company... thats a drop in the bucket to guys like that in the corporate world.

The cold fact is that Nitro was still the highest rated show on TNT so they had absolutely no reason to cancel it; they cancelled Nitro because THEY DIDNT LIKE WRESTLING. Thats it. Simple as that. They could've sold to Eric and had the money losing company off their books and at the same time still bring in ad revenue from the Nitro time slot. Any businessman worth their salt would take that deal... unless they personally didn't like the product they were dealing with...
IT WASN'T GENERATING AD REVENUE. HOLY FUCK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilapierre View Post
WWE has been mismanaged for well over a decade. It's complete garbage yet it's still on TV because some people will watch anything.

If you deal with 'facts' it was the merger that ended WCW. In 2001, WCW was putting out a horrible product in comparison to what it had been producing 2 or 3 years prior. But the product could have continued on under Bischoff/Hervey for years had Siegel not conspired with WWE. There were so many things wrong with WCW (just like there are many things wrong with current WWE) but the actual 'demise' was a result of one thing: the merger. Period.
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  #16  
Old 08-15-2017, 01:41 AM
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Ratings mean nothing. Ad revenue is king. A show pulling in 100 million viewers but zero viewers during commercial breaks will be canceled. Why? ADVERTISERS KEEP TV SHOWS ON THE AIR NOT RATINGS.
Ratings equal ad revenue MORON. Zero viewers during a commercial break? You are a complete and utter moron. A high rated TV show can command more money from advertisers because they reach more people and if you hit the 18-35 males you are gold in the advertiser's mind. You are brain dead.

Quote:
This was also when WCW was losing 8 billion dollars a year.
8 billion a year? PLEASE show me where they lost 8 billion a year?

Quote:
They were still willing to sell to Bischoff. He didn't want it without TV.
They were not willing to sell to Bischoff. That's what my original post was all about. Siegel and Snyder conspired to sell to WWE. They gave Bischoff the runaround untill Siegel concinced Keller to cancel the shows. Maybe you should connect the dots.

Quote:
It was not generating ad revenue. Bischoff himself confirmed this. He even said there would be articles written about the dangers of advertising with wrestling due to the low income of wrestling fans. Something WWE still deals with.
Please post Bischoff's exact quote about Nitro not generating ad revenue and where I can find it because I have never heard this. The fact that Bischoff was willing to invest in WCW completely contradicts that statement.

Quote:
IT WASN'T GENERATING AD REVENUE. HOLY FUCK.
Provide a link to prove that Nitro was not generating ad revenue. The FACT is Nitro was averaging over 2.5 rating in it's last year and sometimes even went over 3.0 which is pretty damn good for a cable show. I would say that would definitely put in the top 10. I'm pretty sure they had no trouble getting advertisers and revenue.

Here is the link if you care to research yourself or you choose to stay ignorant.

https://www.twnpnews.com/information/WCW/wcwnitro.shtml

Last edited by Makaveli31 : 08-15-2017 at 01:45 AM.
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  #17  
Old 08-15-2017, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
Ratings equal ad revenue MORON. Zero viewers during a commercial break? You are a complete and utter moron. A high rated TV show can command more money from advertisers because they reach more people and if you hit the 18-35 males you are gold in the advertiser's mind. You are brain dead.
WWE could still draw a 4.0 when they did the last TV deal and it came in way under expectations. Why? Ad revenue. Why was ad revenue low? Low income of wrestling fans. Advertisers won't pay full price.

Quote:
8 billion a year? PLEASE show me where they lost 8 billion a year?
Obvious exaggeration. They were losing an astronomical amount.

Quote:
They were not willing to sell to Bischoff. That's what my original post was all about. Siegel and Snyder conspired to sell to WWE. They gave Bischoff the runaround untill Siegel concinced Keller to cancel the shows. Maybe you should connect the dots.
Well except Bischoff himself said if FX had a better offer, they would have bought WCW. How could Siegel control what FX would offer?

Quote:
Please post Bischoff's exact quote about Nitro not generating ad revenue and where I can find it because I have never heard this. The fact that Bischoff was willing to invest in WCW completely contradicts that statement.
Well you know how Eric Bischoff has a DVD about him? The one where he states exactly what I'm saying? That is my source.

They were not generating zero ad revenue (duh). They were generating way less revenue than normal primetime shows. Wrestling does that. WWE has always done that.

Now for some fun stuff that proves my point.

Quote on WWE's problem:
Quote:
CPMs, the cost to reach 1,000 viewers, on the programs are low, and it has been difficult for NBC Universal to raise pricing, according to a person familiar with situation.
http://adage.com/article/media/wwe-v...sports/291752/

Make a note of the average income among WWE fans in this chart:
https://postimg.org/image/sye62lxhv/
This chart compares WWE to similar programming. Meaning advertisers will choose between them to reach a similar audience. WWE comes in dead last for income. So if I am going to advertise with WWE, I will not pay full price. Pro wrestling in general has this problem. It is not WWE-specific.

Quote:
Provide a link to prove that Nitro was not generating ad revenue. The FACT is Nitro was averaging over 2.5 ratings which is pretty damn good for a cable show. I would say that would put in the top 10. I'm pretty sure they had no trouble getting ad revenue.

Here is the link if you care to research yourself or you choose to stay ignorant.

https://www.twnpnews.com/information/WCW/wcwnitro.shtml
That is because you don't do research. You see a big shiny number and shit yourself. Try doing some research next time.
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  #18  
Old 08-15-2017, 03:17 AM
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WWE could still draw a 4.0 when they did the last TV deal and it came in way under expectations. Why? Ad revenue. Why was ad revenue low? Low income of wrestling fans. Advertisers won't pay full price.
So what?!? None of that equals the selling of a company. Vince is not going to shut his doors because of "low" advertising dollars and if you read the article they still got a 50 percent increase.

Quote:
Well except Bischoff himself said if FX had a better offer, they would have bought WCW. How could Siegel control what FX would offer?
Bischoff never said that and I never said Siegel controlled the competition. He controlled WCW hence the cancellation of the WCW programming on TNT and TBS which led to the sale of WCW to WWE. Learn to read.

Quote:
Well you know how Eric Bischoff has a DVD about him? The one where he states exactly what I'm saying? That is my source.

They were not generating zero ad revenue (duh). They were generating way less revenue than normal primetime shows. Wrestling does that. WWE has always done that.

Now for some fun stuff that proves my point.
You mean a WWE produced DVD? So you expect Bischoff, being paid by WWE, to say "Yeah, Vince acquired WCW through an illegal backdoor deal with the president of WCW Brad Siegel." OK...keep drinking Kool-Aid.

Quote:
This chart compares WWE to similar programming. Meaning advertisers will choose between them to reach a similar audience. WWE comes in dead last for income. So if I am going to advertise with WWE, I will not pay full price. Pro wrestling in general has this problem. It is not WWE-specific.
Advertisers still paid. They paid all the way from 1989 to 2001 so obviously low ad revenue did not kill WCW because it survived all those years and low ad revenue has not killed WWE.
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  #19  
Old 08-15-2017, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
So what?!? None of that equals the selling of a company. Vince is not going to shut his doors because of "low" advertising dollars and if you read the article they still got a 50 percent increase.
You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
Ratings equal ad revenue MORON. Zero viewers during a commercial break? You are a complete and utter moron. A high rated TV show can command more money from advertisers because they reach more people and if you hit the 18-35 males you are gold in the advertiser's mind. You are brain dead.
WWE hit those demographics. Yet didn't get top dollar. TV shows get canceled if ad revenue isn't high enough.

Let's see the problems with selling WCW to Bischoff. Big names would likely be gone. Barebones roster. Massive loss of talent. Distant #2 company. Now sell that to advertisers because AOLTW still has to pay for WCW to produce a show. That also means AOLTW has to make a multi-year commitment to WCW (cause Fusient Media probably required a commitment). You see the problem here with low ad sales? Big risk on AOLTW's part to continue airing WCW.

Quote:
Bischoff never said that and I never said Siegel controlled the competition. He controlled WCW hence the cancellation of the WCW programming on TNT and TBS which led to the sale of WCW to WWE. Learn to read.
Except Bischoff did say this on his DVD...I mean like I just watched the DVD about a week ago.

They were more than willing to sell to Bischoff. Fusient called off the deal not AOLTW.

Quote:
You mean a WWE produced DVD? So you expect Bischoff, being paid by WWE, to say "Yeah, Vince acquired WCW through an illegal backdoor deal with the president of WCW Brad Siegel." OK...keep drinking Kool-Aid.
You must have a nice tin foil hat.

Quote:
Advertisers still paid. They paid all the way from 1989 to 2001 so obviously low ad revenue did not kill WCW because it survived all those years and low ad revenue has not killed WWE.
And you have completely forgotten what we were talking about.
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  #20  
Old 08-15-2017, 11:15 AM
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I agree. If wcw was still on par with wwe in ratings and making profit Jamie Kellner would have not took off that "low brow entertainment" from TNT and TBS. It's because of all the mistakes they made before the merger is what did them in. I've said it before and I will say it again- wrestling has not been the same since wwe bought their main competition and since then nobody has been able to compete with them and sadly may never will.
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