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  #1  
Old 08-08-2017, 12:42 PM
Wildcat66 Wildcat66 is offline
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Default What Last Night Confirmed To Me (Or: An Unpopular Opinion On Bayley)

You've probably guessed by now that I have some different tastes when it comes to wrestling. I'm neutral on Jinder Mahal's championship reign, I believe the label of 'injury-prone' is the death of any wrestler wanting to be a major star, I think Jason Jordan can easily be a big name for WWE and the women's match at Battleground I thought was very good amongst other things.

However, there's one opinion I've had, and it's something that many people would hate me for saying. But watching what happened last night with Bayley and the reaction of the crowd, I think now is the perfect time to come out and say it.

Bayley is not and will not be the female John Cena. (And yes, I have seen some of her work in NXT)

Now, what do I mean by this? Well, there are three key differences I think both Bayley and John Cena.

1. Finishers- Now i'm not docking either person for their wrestling ability. Both have shown to be good, capable workers for the company before. But I think we can all agree, the finishers they use are different from each other severely.

John Cena's finishing move is the Attitude Adjustment, or as it's common referred to as a Death Valley Driver. It's a good finisher. Showcases John Cena's strength, creates a good visual and gets a crowd riled up for the end. Bayley on the other hand uses the Bayley-to-Belly, which is really a Belly-to-Belly suplex. I can see the appeal of this move, but to me; it feels extremely generic and kind of makes the opponent look like a chump. Bayley has other moves in her offense and this is the best move she can think of to finish off her opponent? She's even admitted her finisher kind of sucks. I'm not saying that every finisher needs to different and unique, although it helps, but your finisher at least needs to be something that seems threatening enough that it can make opponents look good even when they lose. A simple suplex is not one of those things.

2. Mic Skills- What I mean about this is that I'm looking at them directly in their ability on the stick, the charisma they hold and the overall quality of their acting. John Cena has proven time and time again that he is one of the finest mic workers of his generation, able to go from comedic to serious in the blink of an eye. Ask a fan to name a promo from this guy, you'll likely get a ton of different responses. He's so good, he's even gotten offers from Hollywood. When you have that good of an ability to captivate an audience, you've done your job on the mic.

I've seen Bayley's promo cutting ability not just in WWE but in NXT as well and from what I've seen, she is mediocre at best and really stilted and bad at the worst. This is not something that's come up just recently, this has been a problem her entire career. Going back into 2013, when her career was just beginning. Everyone remembers when she hugged AJ Lee during an interview of her's, she sounded very wooden and a little bit breathy. Going even further back to her presentation skill class, same problems apply here. (Though the part with her in near tears was a nice addition, if I have to be honest) Do you see something wrong here? Bayley is just not very good at cutting promos. It hasn't been a recent issue, this is something that's been plaguing her since day one of her WWE career.

3. Character- This is the deal-breaker for me and also serves as a warning to any and all future NXT call-ups; if you do not evolve, you will be left behind. John Cena started off as the most vanilla babyface this side of Sugartooth Corner, then one night he dressed up as Vanilla Ice and he never looked back. Then after sometime passed, he kept evolving until he became the record tying world champ you see today. You can argue that creative has far from helped Bayley, but even if you're the most die-hard supporter of Bayley, you cannot deny that when you get rid of all the quirks, twists and turns she's had over the years. She's still the same character she was when she started.

Now this is not always a bad thing. Far from it actually, think of all the great characters that have stuck onto a character for long portions of time, (The Undertaker, The Rock, Chris Jericho, Edge, Hulk Hogan, etc) but they didn't just do the same thing over and over again; they evolved their character when they felt it was necessary. Bayley has yet to do so and with a character so mind-numbingly easy and honestly generic to play as, you'd think she'd do something new with it. She did mention in her podcast with Steve Austin, she wanted to try being a heel, why not go up to Vince and ask him to try it out. You are comfortable with talking to him, right?

The point is, for every character in wrestling, there needs to be a moment a character morphs into something different. And you can say that it's called character development, but the difference is that character development is going to happen no matter what. Stories can't happen and characters won't exist if you don't develop them. Evolving your character into something new is something that every wrestler needs to do at some point, it happened with Hulk Hogan, it happened with The Rock, it happened with John Cena, now it's happening with Bayley. And if she doesn't decide to change things up, she'll be thrown away like yesterday's dog food.

Conclusion- I don't know who it was that started this idea that Bayley could be as big as John Cena, but whoever it was; it's clear they set their aspirations too high for her. As much as kids love her to death, and as marketable as she is, it just isn't enough. I'm actually starting to think that the reason for all of Bayley's recent problems is because WWE got cold feet. They realized that she just wasn't performing as well as they thought she would and started wondering if all this talk about her was false or if she was simply overhyped. Again, you can argue that creative did her no favors; but when it comes down to it. Bayley is simply not up to the skill John Cena has been for the last twelve years and it's likely she never will be.

That being said; do I want her to fail? Absolutely not. As I've mentioned before, she is a really good wrestler that has had solid matches with just about everyone, especially with Sasha Banks and Alexa Bliss. And she will be forever idolized for helping to start the women's revolution in WWE. Above all else, Bayley is perhaps amongst the nicest people in the business today and many fans have had good memories of meeting their hero for real. She's a professional's professional and she works hard every-day because that's what she loves to do. I still believe that she will have a good career and that great things will come her way. As far as I know, she could easily become the next Ricky Steamboat or the next Rey Mysterio. Just because something doesn't pan out the way people think it will doesn't mean their career is over; if anything, her career is only beginning. If nothing else, we should be thankful for her work in WWE and what she's done to help make women's wrestling in WWE mean something again.

And that is her greatest contribution to the sport she and all of us love so much.
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  #2  
Old 08-08-2017, 12:54 PM
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Man. You are really hung up on Bayley. Seriously. There is some Bayley therapy in your future. But sticking to the topic, she suffers from NXTuberculosis. A condition that some NXT wrestlers have when they don't get half the crowd reaction they did in NXT. She's massively overrated and a lot of that blame is hyped up NXT fans who cheer everything and anything NXT. It's not really a bad thing either, it makes the show fun to watch. But it's not helping the wrestler who was super popular in NXT become nothing on the Main roster when he/she gets no reaction at all.
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  #3  
Old 08-08-2017, 01:14 PM
Wildcat66 Wildcat66 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Deliverer of Mail View Post
Man. You are really hung up on Bayley. Seriously. There is some Bayley therapy in your future. But sticking to the topic, she suffers from NXTuberculosis. A condition that some NXT wrestlers have when they don't get half the crowd reaction they did in NXT. She's massively overrated and a lot of that blame is hyped up NXT fans who cheer everything and anything NXT. It's not really a bad thing either, it makes the show fun to watch. But it's not helping the wrestler who was super popular in NXT become nothing on the Main roster when he/she gets no reaction at all.
I will admit, Bayley's recent fall from grace has been interesting to cover and watch. But it has also given me a newfound respect for her.

It's things like these that explain why i'm not a watcher of NXT. They build these wrestlers up to be something they aren't and most of the time, they're not going to repeat what they did in NXT. Some actually do better on the main roster than in NXT, such as Braun Strowman, Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, even people like Big E. Langston, Becky Lynch and Xavier Woods have had more success on the main roster than in NXT.
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  #4  
Old 08-08-2017, 02:15 PM
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Quite simply, the difference between John Cena and Bayley (or at least the biggest difference because there is, in fact, multiple) is that star quality shone out of John Cena from the moment he debuted. Was everything 100% perfect for him from that moment on? Of course not, but everybody remembers the first words he ever spoke in a WWE ring because they were impactful. Everybody remembers him making chicken salad out of chicken shit and becoming the most over guy on the roster playing the character of a Vanilla Ice wannabe. There are some people who clearly have what it takes, call it the IT factor if you want, to be a huge name, even early on in their careers. Then there are those who have to work their asses off over a long period of time just in order to get noticed. Bayley doesn't exude that star quality right off the bat. She doesn't look like a star and more importantly, she doesn't sound like a star. Once her booking became unfaithful to the character she was comfortable playing, she didn't have the skills or the overwhelming charisma to make it work regardless.

I think her biggest problem is that she lacks confidence. And if you don't have the guts or motivation to go balls to the wall and make the most of your opportunities, people are going to see right through you. This incarnation of her character is in trouble, there's no point in denying it. She's still young, and this injury will give her and the audience a much-needed break. She needs to come back having improved on the mic, figuring out what she wants her character to be, and with a fire that she hasn't had since her main roster debut.

I'm probably being extremely hard on her, but shit, it's time to stop coasting on her reputation in NXT. People aren't going to cheer her because they're told to or because they remember how awesome she was in NXT. Eventually, she has to put in the work.
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Old 08-08-2017, 03:05 PM
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I never really expected Bayley to be the female John Cena personally and I think that people who do are setting themselves up to be disappointed. Bayley makes money for WWE, she's popular, people want to see her do her thing and I don't believe that you can ask for or expect anything more from any wrestler.

I've noticed that MANY who do the whole "well this guy is gonna be the next (insert name here)" usually become jaded because they're more interested in the qualities said wrestler has in common with a beloved favorite rather than focusing on his/her own merits. It's part of a mentality among a hefty number of American wrestling fans, one that's been around for a long time really, that automatically declares failure whenever a wrestler doesn't reach the levels they think he/she should be; if someone isn't a main eventer, they'll say "that wrestler's just a mid-carder" with such disdain that you'd think they were talking about a child molester or something. If Kevin Owens' career ends 5 years from now without him ever winning another World Championship, some of those fans will declare his career a failure as if all the great feuds, matches and moments he's had, and hopefully will continue to have, are somehow irrelevant.

As I've said at various times, Bayley's going to be fine. Whether she becomes "a female John Cena" or not, she brings a helluva lot to the table; many of us may not like how she's being used from time to time but, in the immortal words of Mick Jagger, you can't always get what you want.
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  #6  
Old 08-08-2017, 03:06 PM
Wildcat66 Wildcat66 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OYDK View Post
Quite simply, the difference between John Cena and Bayley (or at least the biggest difference because there is, in fact, multiple) is that star quality shone out of John Cena from the moment he debuted. Was everything 100% perfect for him from that moment on? Of course not, but everybody remembers the first words he ever spoke in a WWE ring because they were impactful. Everybody remembers him making chicken salad out of chicken shit and becoming the most over guy on the roster playing the character of a Vanilla Ice wannabe. There are some people who clearly have what it takes, call it the IT factor if you want, to be a huge name, even early on in their careers. Then there are those who have to work their asses off over a long period of time just in order to get noticed. Bayley doesn't exude that star quality right off the bat. She doesn't look like a star and more importantly, she doesn't sound like a star. Once her booking became unfaithful to the character she was comfortable playing, she didn't have the skills or the overwhelming charisma to make it work regardless.

I think her biggest problem is that she lacks confidence. And if you don't have the guts or motivation to go balls to the wall and make the most of your opportunities, people are going to see right through you. This incarnation of her character is in trouble, there's no point in denying it. She's still young, and this injury will give her and the audience a much-needed break. She needs to come back having improved on the mic, figuring out what she wants her character to be, and with a fire that she hasn't had since her main roster debut.

I'm probably being extremely hard on her, but shit, it's time to stop coasting on her reputation in NXT. People aren't going to cheer her because they're told to or because they remember how awesome she was in NXT. Eventually, she has to put in the work.
And that's the sad reality of it all, Bayley needs to decide where she wants to go with her career. She will always be a role model to little girls, but she's come to a point where she's in a crossroads with her career. You can't just coast on your work on NXT anymore, it's time to decide how you want to be seen as in the main roster. There's a reason Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Finn Balor and to a lesser extent Chad Gable and Kevin Owens are where they are at in WWE right now. They knew what they wanted to be when they got to WWE and they made it their own.
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Old 08-08-2017, 03:16 PM
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I don't think Bayley was ever destined to be the John Cena of women, she is the Daniel Bryan of women. Her story arc was always that she was a lovable underdog, who despite having the odds stacked against her, would eventually climb to the top of the mountain and become champion.

There's a few problems with this on the main roster.

#1 over exposure. Raw is a 3 hour weekly show that features every performer, every week. NXT is a 1 hour show, that often will only feature its top performers in short segments every 2-3 weeks. This protects anyone's character from becoming boring, because you only see enough of them to leave you wanting more. Additionally, what you do see of them, tends to be solid 10-15 minute matches, which highlight their in-ring ability, whereas on Raw it's not uncommon to see them in a 2-5 minute match that doesn't show much of anything.

#2 Her story had a beginning, middle, and end...and it was already told in NXT.
Pretty cut and dry. To be a great hero, Bayley needed a great villain, and she had several during her time there. Over the course of a long couple of years, we saw Bayley finally ascend to the top, and then all of her primary competition got called up, and she didn't. This worked perfectly for her because once she graduated to the top, a new crop of girls was gunning for her. So it transitioned her character to stay fresh.

Upon arriving on the main roster, she received the belt too quickly, was never positioned as an underdog, didn't have a primary rival, etc. There wasn't anywhere for her to go, at best all she could do was stay the course. But it also would've been silly to position her at the bottom again, after we just saw her coronation in NXT.

None of this is her fault. It's not even really bookings fault, it's just simple story telling. She completed the heroes journey, and they need to find a new story to tell with her. I guarantee you that if Bryan hadn't gone out in the way he did, and had kept the title for more than 3 months after WM30, people would've started getting bored with him, and his momentum would've started stalling, because when you're an underdog character, the best role to be positioned in is as a chaser, not a champion.

I think some time off, and a roster shakeup in her absence, will cause her to come back revitalized.
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Old 08-08-2017, 04:30 PM
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I think also that last night's crowd didn'T really bought into her promo. The fact that it kinda feel like a fake injury to advance a storyline doesn't really help her cause either. When you watch the video back from last week, it doesn'T look like they're anyway she could have been injured from either spot.

But going back to the main topic, the reason i think Bayley didn't take like she should have been it's over exposure in my opinion. From what i've got from watching both brands, they have 2 different way of booking the women's. On Raw, they only push a certains number of women. Last night was a perfect example of that. When Cole told us that they're would be to triple threat matches on raw, i'm sure that i'm not the only one that didn't remember that they had so many women's on the Raw side. Just Like Charlotte, sasha banks and now alexa Bliss, Bayley as been over expose because she's been the focus of most of the feud since the beginning of the year. While on smackdown, everybody seem to get a push, so it doesn't get so repetitive every week, so everybody has a chance to develop their character and the fans won't get sick of you as fast.

Bayley is probably somebody that's perfect for the live event crowd in my opinion, she a character that made for kids especially young girls. In a Tv environment especially on the main roster, she not going to get the type of reaction she was getting with a smaller crowd in NXT or at live events. Because, their more and more smart fans going to those tv tapings especially RAW and those type of fans won't be forced feed crap, if they don't like something they will be vocal especially in Canada.

So i think when people want to compare bayley to Cena, i think it's more as far as the fans base aspect of it. I don't see her be at the same level as Cena as far as the fan base is concern but she does attract the same fanbase and they can exploit that if they truly need too.
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Old 08-08-2017, 04:56 PM
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I think the analogy is flawed.

If you compare Cena and Bayley's popularity, then I would say that Bayley was never hated. Cena has been hated on here for years. Bayley has always been popular, Cena hasn't always been.

If you mean as in legacy, then I wouldn't put Bayley in the same ballpark. She wasn't part of the Divas Revolution storyline, and there were nine Divas in that. All the other three Horsewomen were called up, but not here, showing where she is in the pecking order. She is the Ringo Starr of the Four Horsewomen.

The Daniel Bryan analogy is probably better, as they are both underdogs.
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Old 08-08-2017, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WWE66 View Post
I will admit, Bayley's recent fall from grace has been interesting to cover and watch. But it has also given me a newfound respect for her.

It's things like these that explain why i'm not a watcher of NXT. They build these wrestlers up to be something they aren't and most of the time, they're not going to repeat what they did in NXT. Some actually do better on the main roster than in NXT, such as Braun Strowman, Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, even people like Big E. Langston, Becky Lynch and Xavier Woods have had more success on the main roster than in NXT.
(WWE66 was last seen being burnt at the stake by the pitchfork-wielding NXTites who won't accept that NXT is just a televised feeder league, owned by WWE, and instead imagine it as an old-ECW rebel entity in competition with WWE. Also, the NXTites were upset that WWE66 dared suggest that some people from the perfect NXT have done BETTER on the main roster of the evil WWE Raw or Smackdown. I mean, according to these people, Vince has never built a star, and he exists solely to be mocked and put down as a senile old man who was never any good).

Let that be a lesson to you all, what happens when you cross the NXT nerds. I know, I have the burns and scars to prove it.
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