WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > Wrestling - Non Spam Sections > Old School Wrestling
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-28-2017, 01:17 PM
THTRobtaylor's Avatar
THTRobtaylor THTRobtaylor is offline
Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist
NWA Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,187
THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...
Default Owen & Austin: Reopening Old Wounds

It's interesting to read that Steve Austin's ex-wife Jeannie Clarke has been talking about the Owen Hart situation and claims that Austin not only refused to attend Owen's funeral but also believed he may have DELIBERATELY injured him at the time.

While Clarke has been out of the business for some time, she was previously married to Billy Jack Haynes and Chris Adams, guys who were known for a tall tale or two about others so I think it's fair to say there should be a pinch of salt taken.

One thing that does ring true however, is how Owen DID screw up that day despite being told repeatedly that he had to do a proper tombstone, rather than the sit out version he eventually did. I've heard Austin describe it as him having a "mental block" on doing the move as told, and was perhaps reverting to a Hart taught version of the move. However it would be quite shocking to suggest Owen intentionally did it to cripple Austin.

My questions to people are:-

1) Was Austin right then to hold a grudge, even when he'd died as he did?

2) Should Austin have gone to the funeral?

3) What does Austin do now? Does he admit his feelings then or stay silent? as it's not likely to make him look good either way.

My view is that Austin should have let it go when Owen was killed. It was clear very quickly Owen didn't want to do the stunt, and it can be argued even then that he was only in that position because of Austin's reaction to the injury. It's hard to say Steve "overreacted" but at the same time, if he'd spread that Owen had intentionally done it, even to one or two WWF people, then that would lead to the "punishment" Owen seemed to receive with the Blue Blazer that backfired so terribly.

As for the funeral, sorry Steve, you should have taken one for the team that day. While you may not have liked Owen the way others did, or forgiven him, you still were the LEADER of that company at the time and not honoring one of them when they literally fell is bad form at best and spiteful at worst. You were still there, he wasn't. What harm could it have done you to go, stay quiet and be seen?

It's unfortunate that Jeannie has decided to bring all this up, but let's face it - it is going to be dragged up again at some point soon as we near the 20th anniversary of Owen's death. Personally I hope to hear Steve's next podcast dedicated to this topic and speaking 100% truthfully. If people don't like what he says, take it on the chin... none of the usual platitude answers please. If your ex is lying, tell us... if she's not... tell us your side however uncomfortable you may feel or what damage it does to your rep. Don't go the "I was angry, now I get it with distance".. if you're still mad, say so...
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-28-2017, 02:24 PM
@smarkmouth's Avatar
@smarkmouth @smarkmouth is offline
Friendly Neighborhood
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 510
@smarkmouth scored a win over Santino Marella...@smarkmouth scored a win over Santino Marella...@smarkmouth scored a win over Santino Marella...@smarkmouth scored a win over Santino Marella...@smarkmouth scored a win over Santino Marella...@smarkmouth scored a win over Santino Marella...@smarkmouth scored a win over Santino Marella...@smarkmouth scored a win over Santino Marella...@smarkmouth scored a win over Santino Marella...@smarkmouth scored a win over Santino Marella...@smarkmouth scored a win over Santino Marella...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post
1) Was Austin right then to hold a grudge, even when he'd died as he did?
To throw more speculation and hearsay into this stew, I recall reading that in spite of the neck injury, Owen never reached out to Austin with any form of apology. That's certainly a far cry from deliberately trying to injure someone, but both acts merit a grudge.

Was he "right" to hold a grudge. Well, that's his business. I would say that he has handled the grudge correctly. He doesn't speak about it all that much, and certainly doesn't drag a dead man's name through the mud in public. I respect that.

Quote:
2) Should Austin have gone to the funeral?
Absolutely. I feel like his omission from the funeral probably undoes my first answer, but complicated is man. Let's also revisit the possibility that if Austin deliberately spread such rumors, he might have been unwelcome to the memorial by any Harts privy to what Austin may have been saying.

Quote:
3) What does Austin do now? Does he admit his feelings then or stay silent? as it's not likely to make him look good either way.
Stay silent. If he Austin still feels the way about Owen Hart that we are speculating here, well, you don't speak ill of those who aren't here anymore, especially if it's over a personal grudge. If anything, Austin sits down privately with any Harts that he holds in esteem and lays it out on the table. No one outside of that group needs any closure on this.
__________________

No. No one else misses Rybaxel
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-28-2017, 02:47 PM
LODemolition's Avatar
LODemolition LODemolition is offline
Registered User
WWE Women's Champion
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 820
LODemolition worked a dark match on ECW recently...LODemolition worked a dark match on ECW recently...LODemolition worked a dark match on ECW recently...LODemolition worked a dark match on ECW recently...LODemolition worked a dark match on ECW recently...LODemolition worked a dark match on ECW recently...LODemolition worked a dark match on ECW recently...LODemolition worked a dark match on ECW recently...LODemolition worked a dark match on ECW recently...LODemolition worked a dark match on ECW recently...LODemolition worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

1. I personally don't believe in holding grudges, so I have to say no here. It does neither person any good, especially the one holding onto it. It just tears you up inside and I imagine in this case it has to be 100x harder because of course Austin will never get the apology or at least some sort of cloaure he was probably hoping for.

2. That's 100% his decision, but it were me, I would have gone just out of respect for a colleague and his family. I must admit though that I do respect Austin for not doing a 180 degree turn and pretending like he and Owen were best buds when he died. Some people speak of the dead like they were absolute saints and did no wrong. My dad recently died and a lot of people will talk about him like that in my presence when I know that they didn't always see eye to eye and get along the way they try to make it seem in retrospect. But yes, differences aside, Austin should have been at the funeral. He was the franchise player at the time and all eyes were on him. Do the right thing.
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-28-2017, 02:54 PM
Kodo Sawaki Kodo Sawaki is offline
Registered User
WWE Women's Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 921
Kodo Sawaki is getting some looks on Smackdown...Kodo Sawaki is getting some looks on Smackdown...Kodo Sawaki is getting some looks on Smackdown...Kodo Sawaki is getting some looks on Smackdown...Kodo Sawaki is getting some looks on Smackdown...Kodo Sawaki is getting some looks on Smackdown...Kodo Sawaki is getting some looks on Smackdown...Kodo Sawaki is getting some looks on Smackdown...Kodo Sawaki is getting some looks on Smackdown...Kodo Sawaki is getting some looks on Smackdown...Kodo Sawaki is getting some looks on Smackdown...
Default

Quote:
1) Was Austin right then to hold a grudge, even when he'd died as he did?
Austin is(as most of top superstars) ego maniacal man. One other example of that is how he refused to put over Lesnar. One such man, psychologically speaking, would be mad for less then somebody hurting him and probably shorten his career on long track. So its kinda normal for a ego maniacal Austin to hold grudge for that.

Quote:
2) Should Austin have gone to the funeral?
Eh, if he considered him a friend and wanted to pay respect. But in his mind he probably wasnt that so its kinda better then "Oh, he was such a good man, I remember a time when he injured me even if they said him move he did was reckless to do" speech he would do if he was honest and not pretending.

Quote:
3) What does Austin do now? Does he admit his feelings then or stay silent? as it's not likely to make him look good either way.
Does it really matter? I mean, Owen died almost 20 years ago, does it really matter what Austin thinks now or does he still holds a grudge?

Heck, same opinion he probably had or has(how Owen was reckless and shortened Austin career as well as his move set) I read on numerous occasions here and on other sites. Its just an opinion that holds no real value now after all this time.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-28-2017, 03:39 PM
OYDK's Avatar
OYDK OYDK is offline
Registered User
ECW TV Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,209
OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...OYDK is going to make some noise in the draft...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post
1) Was Austin right then to hold a grudge, even when he'd died as he did?
If Austin's story is to be believed, than Owen was completely at fault for breaking his neck and I believe anybody would have held a grudge for the way he handled the whole situation. Austin apparently repeatedly told him that he wasn't comfortable taking the move and kept iterating that he should drop to his knees instead of his ass. Owen botched the move, severely injured Austin, and then never apologized for it or visited him in the hospital. So, if this is how everything really played out, I think it was completely justified for Austin to be pissed off at Owen while they worked together.

I'm sure Austin obviously felt some grief and shock over Owen's death but at the same time, those feelings of anger and bitterness probably still lingered. I don't think anybody can really answer if it was "right" for Austin to continue holding a grudge after Owen's accident. People are going to feel the way they feel. Austin has never badmouthed Owen or made a huge deal out of the whole situation so I don't see a problem with it if he does still harbor resentment to this day. Maybe it's a little juvenile, but I think people should also try to imagine nearly being crippled by somebody and then having that person, for all intents and purposes, act like they didn't give a shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post
2) Should Austin have gone to the funeral?
Yeah, probably. Even if he did feel a certain way, the classy move would have been showing up in solidarity with the rest of the locker room and at least having enough respect to see Owen off. It wasn't as if Owen died of a heart attack or complications, he died in the middle of the ring after a failed and dangerous stunt. He didn't have to give a speech or act as if he was devastated or anything, but just going would have been the right thing to do in my eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post
3) What does Austin do now? Does he admit his feelings then or stay silent? as it's not likely to make him look good either way.
Nah, he should and he will stay silent just as he pretty much has done for the past 20 years. There's absolutely no reason to dredge up this topic again. Just let things lie.
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-28-2017, 04:02 PM
Jack-Hammer's Avatar
Jack-Hammer Jack-Hammer is offline
The Once And Future Lizard King!!!!
Wrestlezone Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kentucky
Age: 37
Posts: 12,621
Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...Jack-Hammer is an Intercontinental Champion...
Default

1) Was Austin right then to hold a grudge, even when he'd died as he did?

When it's a grudge over something that's primarily due to ego or pettiness, I generally don't believe in holding grudges but it's ultimately Austin's business. However, we'll never know the full story of what went on. Was Owen genuinely told not to perform the piledriver the way he did? Did he intentionally try to cripple Austin? We'll never know but it's something that sounds extremely out of character based on what's been told by numerous wrestlers over the years about Owen Hart. In any case, Owen was sloppy and Austin was lucky; he could've been paralyzed, killed or essentially made into a vegetable and I can't say that Austin is wrong or right for feeling the way he ALLEGEDLY feels. MAYBE if someone did something similar to me, I'd feel the same way but hopefully I'll never be in that sort of situation.

2) Should Austin have gone to the funeral?

Again, it's such a complicated question and we certainly don't remotely have the answers needed to form a coherent opinion. There are so many if's that we have to ask because we just don't know and never truly will know. Speaking for myself and if a man I believed in my heart deliberately tried to cripple or kill me died, I wouldn't attend his funeral. It'd be part of my way of legitimately moving on, just leaving him in the past and simply try not to think of or talk about him again.

3) What does Austin do now? Does he admit his feelings then or stay silent? as it's not likely to make him look good either way.

The best thing for Austin to do, in my opinion, is to just keep his mouth shut because stating his feelings, trying to defend his position, etc. will only result in more muckraking when it's all said and done. Nobody can claim that their position in this thing is 100% right as there's no sort of concrete proof; Owen didn't make some sort of written or taped confession, he's not alive to defend himself, the whole thing would devolve into nothing more than a game of he said/she said. If someone asks Austin about it, I'm of the opinion that he should say that it's something he doesn't want to talk about or discuss as there are some things that're too personal to bring up. If that's not enough for some people, tell them to go fuck themselves with a dildo wrapped in barbed wire.
__________________
"What Do I Know Of Cultured Ways, The Gilt, The Craft And The Lie?
I, Who Was Born In A Naked Land And Bred In The Open Sky.
The Subtle Tongue, The Sophist Guile, They Fail When The Broadswords Sing.
Rush In And Die Dogs - I Was A Man Before I Was King."


Conan Of Cimmeria
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-28-2017, 04:37 PM
Azane Azane is offline
Registered User
WWF Hardcore Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,185
Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...Azane worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Few simple thoughts.

A. Owen wasnt the kind of guy who'd hurt someone on purpose, He screwed up, accidents happen. There's no way this was intentional. Even taking away the death goggles, Owen was more respectful than that.

B. Outside of The fact Austin didn't attend the funeral, and his wife saying this, I havent seen any other evidence that Austin avoided the funeral on purpose. I don't think there's enough to judge him on this point.

C. Death Goggles. Owen is given a wide berth of space and a ton of people who posthumously say he was a perfect person. This is something that makes most stories about Owen turn into one sided stories about how everyone on the opposite side of Owen has to be wrong, because of his tragedy.

To Answer the questions directly:

1. Unless he has proof or Owen flat out told him he did it on purpose, I don't see how that move could have been purposeful, The micro-expression that Owen makes right after he lands it, shows someone who just realized they made a potentially life ending mistake, not someone looking to steal a spotlight.

2. I don't know the circumstances around Austin's life at the time. a Co-workers funeral could be pushed below a ton of life priorities. If we make a hypothetical assumption that Owen did hurt him on purpose, he's right to not attend, the man attempted murder if it was an on purpose botched Tombstone.

3. Again - Hypothetical assumption hes holding a grudge and hated Owen; Don't say anything. Steve still is in the spotlight often, Broken Skull, Podcast, occasional RAW or ppv appearances. Arguing with a dead man is pointless, because the only thing Austin has to gain from this would be to lose.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-28-2017, 08:42 PM
Garak Garak is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 78
Garak is looking to come up from OCW...Garak is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by THTRobtaylor View Post
As for the funeral, sorry Steve, you should have taken one for the team that day. While you may not have liked Owen the way others did, or forgiven him, you still were the LEADER of that company at the time and not honoring one of them when they literally fell is bad form at best and spiteful at worst. You were still there, he wasn't. What harm could it have done you to go, stay quiet and be seen?
Considering how some of the Hart family have behaved, back then and now, I think Austin made the right choice. I am a huge Owen fan - my favourite of the entire Hard family, just about my favourite wrestler of the day. Austin had to do what felt right to him.

There's nothing wrong with being angry at someone and not attending his funeral. As unfortunate as it is, we all have enemies, and in a big workplace, we're going to have workplace enemies.

I won't comment on who's at fault here. I don't think Owen did anything intentional, but that's really not the point. Austin did what he felt was right, and was under no obligation.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-28-2017, 11:02 PM
EastCoastFan EastCoastFan is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 500
EastCoastFan is looking to come up from OCW...EastCoastFan is looking to come up from OCW...EastCoastFan is looking to come up from OCW...EastCoastFan is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

In his book, Austin has said he was pissed off over the whole incident, especially since Owen never came to apologize for screwing up and nearly ending his career (JR has said Owen felt badly about injuring Austin, but they never had "the talk" afterwards).

He talked about how they were going over the match beforehand and the piledriver spot, and they argued over how Owen was supposed to do it - drop to his knees (Austin) or his butt (Owen). He also said that Owen was such a notorious ribber that he wasn't sure if Owen was playing around, or really thought he should do the piledriver like that.

Either way, at the end of the chapter, Austin did say that, despite what happened between them, he was "very, very sorry" about Owen's death, so I don't think he holds that much of a grudge.

As for whether or not Austin should have gone to the funeral, that was his choice. He's said he was never very close with Owen, so if he didn't feel a need to go, he didn't have to.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-28-2017, 11:03 PM
THTRobtaylor's Avatar
THTRobtaylor THTRobtaylor is offline
Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist
NWA Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,187
THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azane View Post
Few simple thoughts.

A. Owen wasnt the kind of guy who'd hurt someone on purpose, He screwed up, accidents happen. There's no way this was intentional. Even taking away the death goggles, Owen was more respectful than that.

B. Outside of The fact Austin didn't attend the funeral, and his wife saying this, I havent seen any other evidence that Austin avoided the funeral on purpose. I don't think there's enough to judge him on this point.

C. Death Goggles. Owen is given a wide berth of space and a ton of people who posthumously say he was a perfect person. This is something that makes most stories about Owen turn into one sided stories about how everyone on the opposite side of Owen has to be wrong, because of his tragedy.

To Answer the questions directly:

1. Unless he has proof or Owen flat out told him he did it on purpose, I don't see how that move could have been purposeful, The micro-expression that Owen makes right after he lands it, shows someone who just realized they made a potentially life ending mistake, not someone looking to steal a spotlight.

2. I don't know the circumstances around Austin's life at the time. a Co-workers funeral could be pushed below a ton of life priorities. If we make a hypothetical assumption that Owen did hurt him on purpose, he's right to not attend, the man attempted murder if it was an on purpose botched Tombstone.

3. Again - Hypothetical assumption hes holding a grudge and hated Owen; Don't say anything. Steve still is in the spotlight often, Broken Skull, Podcast, occasional RAW or ppv appearances. Arguing with a dead man is pointless, because the only thing Austin has to gain from this would be to lose.
This is the most interesting response... went back and looked and yes... Owen DID look like he knew he'd fucked up, even with how he handled the botch pin... But the truth is that Austin probably bought into the Bret backstage hype at the time rather than truly believed Owen intended it.

As for the "real life priorities" nah... Your co-worker just died horribly in public... you show up, even if he hurt you, be it inadvertently or not... you show up to prove no malice etc... you do it for your friends there who are in BITS he died, even if you personally aren't.... someone mentioned not liking their dad... I'll show up... only cos I know I get an open mic and the choice to say...or not say things. Austin had that choice but the Harts and the "boys" would have appreciated him showing up, talking or not...

The one I disagree with is that everyone seems to be saying "keep quiet Austin"...WHY? At this point what good does it do other than preserve a falling star (Austin isn't really as big any more) He was known for being truthful and he has a chance now to take it out, before the 20 year vultures come looking... "I resented him and even hated him...but I hated he died... I couldn't put that into any meaningful form... I can now..." and that's all it takes from him... silence... just keeps it going... or is he THAT scared of Martha or more likely running into Oj or Athena and them asking him?
__________________

Last edited by THTRobtaylor : 07-28-2017 at 11:05 PM.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices