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  #1  
Old 05-01-2017, 09:49 AM
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Default Pay Per Views don't feel special anymore

Remember a time when a Backlash, Judgement Day or Vengeance felt like a must-see show, much more than even Summerslam feels today, and Summerslam was obviously huge ? When we'd see Taker vs Angle vs Rock at Vengeance, or an Unforgiven in 2002 which was a better show than most Summerslams or Survivor Series's from the last many years.

It's undeniable that most PPVs like Fastlane and Payback feel like an episode of Sunday Night Raw, and as far back as 2014, Mark Madden would call that year's HIAC featuring Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, Orton and Cena a "Sunday Night Raw" and he was right. And that wasn't even an year with the brand split in effect.

Last year's Smackdown PPVs too, although better than Raw, didn't really have a whole lot to offer, based on their thin roster.

My main complaints for the PPVs not feeling special are threefold:-

1)The Sets all look alike.

I want the good old Unforgiven, Judgement Day, and Armageddon sets back, which were picturesque as fuck, and if you're a fan of WCW, they could have been awesome Halloween Havoc or Bash at the Beach sets as well.

I cannot differentiate between the Payback set from last night and the usual Raw set. It just felt like an episode of Raw. For Example, you had a lot of filler at Unforgiven 2003, but the show on the whole at least had a special vibe to it because of the set. Kane vs Shane McMahon and Goldberg vs HHH is memorable to this day, and I can't say the same for a single match on last night's show. I just can't. Which brings me to

2)Combine the rosters for every PPV, giving 4 quality matches from Raw and 4 from Smackdown, and a Pre-show match if you even have to.

Even back then, if you see the line-up of Judgement Day, Great American Bash and No Mercy on Wikipedia, you'd see that necessarily FOUR out of 8 of the matches don't even seem to belong on a Smackdown, let alone on a PPV. I'm talking about matches like:-
Mordecai squashing Scotty 2 hotty
Chavo vs Jacqueline (how could you put this on a PPV for chrissakes)
Any combination of matches involving Kenzo Suzuki, Luther Reigns, Heidenreich, Spike Dudley, Nunzio, Charlie Hass, Bob Holly and the like.

RAW wasn't doing that great either with pretty much half the PPVs being undeserved filler matches. If you were smart, you'd rather have a joint PPV like Unforgiven where the card would be:-

HHH vs Randy Orton(Raw)
Chris Jericho vs Christian(Raw)
Shawn Michaels vs Kane(Raw)
Taker vs JBL(SD)
Cena vs Booker T(SD)
Kurt Angle vs Big Show or Eddie Guerrero(SD)

and any combination of Tag Team or Women's matches in a single unified division for each.

The main argument brand split supporters use in favour of a Single brand PPV is that "everyone should get to be on the show, that's how you make stars" .

I'll simply ask you one thing:- Since Bob Holly, Billy Gunn, Charlie Hass, Rico, La Resistance, Tajiri, Kenzo Suzuki, Luther Reigns, Heidenreich, Rhyno, Tyson Tomko, Stevie Richards, among others all got to be on PPVs in those years, ....how come they never became stars?

Because they were never worthy of being on so many PPVs to begin with, and I haven't even included Nunzio and Spike Dudley and many others in that list.

3)Reduce the number of PPVs to 12, and if you absolutely must, 13. Quality is to be preferred over Quantity.

Let's face it, Half of every Raw and Smackdown PPV will be either trash, or just the same match you've seen dozens of times on free TV. So why not reduce the number of PPVs, let each feud feel special, and battle in matches and rematches ONLY and only on PPVs.

That way, AJ Styles doesn't have to kill time in meaningless subplots featuring James Ellsworth or something, and each month, he can give an awesome match.

I'd much rather see 10 or 12 solid Dual branded PPVs a year than 12 very diluted Single brand ones and the Big Four.

Last edited by RomanfreakinReigns : 05-01-2017 at 09:59 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-01-2017, 09:59 AM
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I'll try to post short and sweet here.

Combining the rosters for every PPV will make brand split totally pointless. Where's the split if you have both brand matches at the same time? I can understand lack of different sets but WWE will prefer something economic over variety especially at this time. I agree about reducing the no. of PPVs. But it isn't happening anytime soon. So, stop watching every PPV and just watch if the build and card looks good enough to you. Saying PPV was like a Raw episode and still continuing to watch PPV isn't a good approach, I guess.
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  #3  
Old 05-01-2017, 10:21 AM
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PPV's don't feel like PPV's anymore because they really aren't PPV's. Little to no effort goes into building one because they don't need to. You're paying for the network anyway, they don't care if you watch it or not because they're going to have your money for that month regardless. It's a lack of effort more so than anything else and there's really no remedy for that other than... putting in effort. Lowering the number or combining the rosters isn't gonna do anything to help.
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  #4  
Old 05-01-2017, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
I'll try to post short and sweet here.
Okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
Combining the rosters for every PPV will make brand split totally pointless.
Not really. Trying to put on a quality 3-hr programme is impossible owing to the brand split, where you don't even have enough stars for your main event, let alone your undercard.

The proof is in the history. If they did, you wouldn't have so many trashy PPVs with garbage filler matches which belonged more on Velocity, as I mentioned in my OP.

Also, they did joint PPVs between 2007-2010 and those were some of the best years in both the brand split history and also PPVs.

Anyone reasonable will agree that a joint WWE PPV from 2007 is better than the trashy Single branded PPVs the WWE put us through between 2003-2007.

And it won't be different this time.

Filler matches. Rematches OF Rematches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
Where's the split if you have both brand matches at the same time?
The same way there was the split between 2007-2010.

I'd much rather have a Backlash where John Cena defends against Shawn Michaels and others, and Batista faces the Undertaker in a rematch, than the trashy single brand Backlashes or Fastlanes or Paybacks we are getting and will be getting for a few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinChan View Post
I can understand lack of different sets but WWE will prefer something economic over variety especially at this time. I agree about reducing the no. of PPVs. But it isn't happening anytime soon. So, stop watching every PPV and just watch if the build and card looks good enough to you. Saying PPV was like a Raw episode and still continuing to watch PPV isn't a good approach, I guess.
The "If you don't like something and have genuine grievances as a lifelong wrestling fan, stop watching and go away" argument is so stupid that it should by now have been considered a serious offence by the US Law, International Law and every Law, and punishable by death sentence, every time a forum user invoked it.

It's like saying, "you are demanding quality PPVs in a logical form in a thread, but just stop watching. I have nothing original to say".
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  #5  
Old 05-01-2017, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by The Life Of Pablo Ren View Post
PPV's don't feel like PPV's anymore because they really aren't PPV's. Little to no effort goes into building one because they don't need to. You're paying for the network anyway, they don't care if you watch it or not because they're going to have your money for that month regardless. It's a lack of effort more so than anything else and there's really no remedy for that other than... putting in effort. Lowering the number or combining the rosters isn't gonna do anything to help.
Yeah I guess.

They just don't have to make that effort anymore.

They can do whatever they want. Like Mark Madden used to say "Less people watch wrestling than they used to" and "Marks will tune in no matter what" and damn it he was right.

They did put that effort between 2007-2010 at least where I pretty much enjoyed EVERY show.

It seems like every year, it gets worse. I had just begun to enjoy the PPVs last year with Roman Reigns vs AJ Styles and then the brand split.

May be the solution is to just stop tuning in. Watch only Wrestlemania Season.
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  #6  
Old 05-01-2017, 11:00 AM
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It should be noted that most of us have watched so much prowrestling that it's very easy to get jaded with what they're giving us today. A small part of why PPVs just don't have the spark they used to is likely because we grew up.

I wouldn't want the WWE to change their current format because that could end up being a "chasing the dragon" scenario where, in trying to get the same fix that prowrestling PPVs used to give, we end up mucking up the shows by trying to force them to be more than just fancy prowrestling cards.
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  #7  
Old 05-01-2017, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanfreakinReigns View Post
Not really. Trying to put on a quality 3-hr programme is impossible owing to the brand split, where you don't even have enough stars for your main event, let alone your undercard.
Of course, it is. But WWE is in a mode of transition now. WWE is trying to build stars and stars can't be built in short time.

Quote:
The proof is in the history. If they did, you wouldn't have so many trashy PPVs with garbage filler matches which belonged more on Velocity, as I mentioned in my OP.
I also dislike fillers but you won't see them going away in the near future. Even at Wrestlemania, there are filler matches.

Quote:
Also, they did joint PPVs between 2007-2010 and those were some of the best years in both the brand split history and also PPVs.

Anyone reasonable will agree that a joint WWE PPV from 2007 is better than the trashy Single branded PPVs the WWE put us through between 2003-2007.
Can't really remember them. But my only problem would be the pointless nature of brand split. Split means everything separate. I won't like to see every PPV being a dual-branded one.

Quote:
And it won't be different this time.

Filler matches. Rematches OF Rematches.
Well, rematches also aren't going away.

Quote:
The same way there was the split between 2007-2010.

I'd much rather have a Backlash where John Cena defends against Shawn Michaels and others, and Batista faces the Undertaker in a rematch, than the trashy single brand Backlashes or Fastlanes or Paybacks we are getting and will be getting for a few years.
I agree but John Cena, Shawn Michaels, etc were credible stars. We don't have anyone yet who appears so often. So, you aren't going to get something like that anytime soon. And that's wrong but still it isn't happening.

Quote:
The "If you don't like something and have genuine grievances as a lifelong wrestling fan, stop watching and go away" argument is so stupid that it should by now have been considered a serious offence by the US Law, International Law and every Law, and punishable by death sentence, every time a forum user invoked it.
It's stupid but I never said so. What I said was that If you don't like anything happening at PPVs then quit watching PPVs. Just see Big 4 PPVs. I never intended to say that If you complain about a certain thing, then you should consider stopping its use. But If you felt that I told you to go away or something then I apologise. It wasn't my intent though.

Also, death sentence might be a too overboard punishment.

Quote:
It's like saying, "you are demanding quality PPVs in a logical form in a thread, but just stop watching. I have nothing original to say".
The thing is that you accept not liking anything in the PPVs. And I really don't blame you. But what I think is that there's no use of continuing watching it if you don't like what happens in the majority of time.
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  #8  
Old 05-01-2017, 11:24 AM
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I can definitely get behind the sets argument. I cannot stand how the sets are so alike anymore. I used to think that there was a good consistency and that satisfied my OCD somewhat, but at the same time, you're completely right. Some of the old sets were absolutely fantastic and iconic. Armageddon used to have absolutely MASSIVE sets! And even then, the annual events used to change their sets up as well. Backlash, Judgment Day etc. had really nice touches each year that differentiated them, but you knew what event you were at.

As far as the content of the event is concerned, last night's event might not have been memorable to you, but I definitely think they absolutely stacked the card. In fact, I think Payback was probably one of the best Raw exclusive pay-per-views since the brand split last year. Then again, Fastlane, for example, was quite honestly terrible. I've never, and I honestly mean never, quit watching a show half way through. But damn I couldn't do it. But anyway, that is all just a matter of opinion I guess, yet I think Payback was a great representative of what Raw has to offer, and they were still missing Miz, Ambrose and Bálor from action. I will be very satisfied if future PPV events are like Payback last night.

I'm not sure I agree with your point about there being too many events either to be honest. A few years ago, absolutely. Christ, I remember one year where there was literally like three PPV events in the space of five weeks, which is just absolutely ridiculous. But nowadays, I don't think it's that much of an issue. There's like, what, five or so weeks between brand exclusive events? Which means about two or three weeks between every event. I think that's a good rate and I look forward to having regular special events, but it's made better because it's a different roster working those events. And then the big four are made even bigger because these brands are brought together.

I don't know. Maybe it's just a different matter of opinion in terms of what a pay-per-view is supposed to achieve.
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:27 AM
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For me I reckon it's the having them every two weeks.

Sure it's for the different brands and different rosters but that's still overexposure.

Why should I care about a feud on Payback or Backlash when the blowoff will most likely be at Money In The Bank, Summerslam etc and the editors can give me a good summary in the video package.

If it turns out a match is exceptionally good I'll check it out but if not I don't see the point in watching it. Unfortunately I don't have as much spare time as I once did so why should I use my precious spare time to watch something that they don't put as much effort into when I can get the highlights in a video package and watch the proper ending at a later point
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Old 05-01-2017, 11:46 AM
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I think there's a few reasons for this.

The Roster - In terms on actual top level stars, there really isn't that many now. People like to go on and on about the likes of Zayn, Owens, Rollins, Ambrose etc... But none of them are top levels guys, and I don't think they will be. All we have right now, in my opinion is Cena, Orton & Lesnar. Mabe HHH as well, if he still counts. Hell, even Reigns could be there.

The fans - Nothing (or most things) just isn't good enough anymore. You mentioned Taker vs Angle vs Rock at Vengeance and how great that was, and I agree. If anything like that happened now, The Shield triple threat at Battleground for example, a lot of people will just complain about how it's being wasted on a smaller PPV, while a few months before/after, they'd complain about the smaller PPVs being pointless.

As already mentioned, having a PPV every 2 or 3 weeks is certainly not helping. Especially when they're named Great Balls of Fire.
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