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  #1  
Old 04-10-2017, 05:42 PM
d_henderson1810 d_henderson1810 is offline
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A lot of people here used to complain about how Cena and Reigns don't put over younger talent, and buries those climbing the ranks.

However, how come Randy Orton never cops heat for constantly not doing jobs to younger talent, or seeing the lights for anyone who isn't a main-eventer.

Here's the evidence:-

-feuds with Ted DiBiase jnr and Cody Rhodes. Bullies them the entire time they were in Legacy, and treated them like shit.

DiBiase and Cody turn on Orton? Did they beat him down and have him leave on stretcher? No?

No, instead, Orton, by himself, beat down the two of them every single time. He buried both of them, and stopped Cody especially from reaching the next level. Then he beats them at WM26, but it didn't mean as much, since he beat them every single time leading up to that as well.

- Doesn't put over C.M. Punk at WM27, even though Punk would have benefited from the win, whereas a win over Punk does nothing for Orton, yet Orton wins the match.

-His feud with Christian, while they had great matches, buried Christian (a veteran, but one who finally got the top prize, only to lose it straight away to Orton's ego. Orton then beat him in three of the next four PPVs, and only lost the belt to him in a match where he loses the belt if disqualified. He never got pinned by Christian during the feud, and kept himself protected.

-He beats Daniel Bryan at "Summerslam" and "Hell-In-A-Cell", and at WMXXX, Bryan won, but it was Batista, not Orton, who tapped out.

- He beats Seth Rollins at WM31, even though Seth wins the belt later on the show. When they fought the next month, it was in a Cage, where Seth won by climbing out of the cage after Kane cost Orton, both making Orton lose via screwy finish and not lose via pinfall or submission.

-He gets Mr Kennedy fired from WWE, threatened by Kennedy's growing push.

- His current feud with Bray Wyatt, where he has been made to look strong against Wyatt every time, and make Wyatt look weak. We don't see Orton crying in a corner (we shouldn't, but they shouldn't have had Bray do it either), we don't see Bray one-up Orton. Orton burns down Bray's compound, suddenly has supernatural powers when sticking a staff into the ground, and even Bray's mind-tricks at WM didn't hurt Orton, and he won the title again (which he doesn't need), totally unaffected by the mind-tricks, with one RKO, and pinning Bray easily, and Bray loses the title after one month, to appease Orton's massive ego.

I know how this "House Of Horrors" match will work. Maybe there will be lots of scary and mind-bending things happen inside the match, yet Orton will no-sell it, and beat Bray without raising a sweat again. Bray Wyatt may as well go back to being Husky Harris, the way Orton has buried Bray Wyatt's character.

So, tell me one up-and-comer that Orton has put over clean. It doesn't happen. I'm not counting when people like Cena or Triple H beat him. They are already at the top. Orton never gets pinned by guys who are climbing the main event ladder.

Don't get too excited if they ever do A.J. Styles v Randy Orton. Orton will probably win every time, and if A.J. wins, it will be done in a way where Orton doesn't get pinned by him.

At least Cena put over Daniel Bryan and Kevin Owens clean.
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  #2  
Old 04-10-2017, 05:47 PM
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Simply put, Orton isn'T on the same level as cena or reigns in the fans opinion plus even through i think he'S boring as hell, fans really like Orton so they are ready to forgive him a lot more then Cena and REigns which are more wrestlers build for the kids then orton is.

I agree with you Orton hasn't been ask to put alot of younger guys over but again just like Cena and Reigns, they don't have the power to decide who they want to put over or who they don'T want to put over, that's vince's decision, they are just following orders but try to explain that to fans these days.
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Old 04-10-2017, 06:12 PM
d_henderson1810 d_henderson1810 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrestlingmasters55 View Post
Simply put, Orton isn'T on the same level as cena or reigns in the fans opinion plus even through i think he'S boring as hell, fans really like Orton so they are ready to forgive him a lot more then Cena and REigns which are more wrestlers build for the kids then orton is.

I agree with you Orton hasn't been ask to put alot of younger guys over but again just like Cena and Reigns, they don't have the power to decide who they want to put over or who they don'T want to put over, that's vince's decision, they are just following orders but try to explain that to fans these days.
He has some backstage stroke.

If SCSA, HBK and Triple H could dictate who they won't lose to, then a guy who survived FOUR Wellness violations, and didn't get fired for crapping into a Diva's bag or trashing a motel room, surely has some.

Orton won't put guys over because of his ego and "sense of entitlement" because he is a HoFer's son.
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  #4  
Old 04-10-2017, 06:33 PM
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I do agree that Randy Orton is up there in the ranks of guys who have had many unnecessary wins (if you could call them that) over the years. However, he has had some significant losses too, and at times I did wonder whether he would ever reach the main event championship scene again. It seemed like an age between his World Heavyweight Championship win in 2004 and the "Age of Orton" in 2007. So in that respect, while I understand what you are saying, he at least spent 3-4 years in the mid-card, teasing the main event scene for a while. And while Cena did that too, many seemingly choose to forget that. Maybe Orton's rise wasn't as meteoric as Cena's I guess.

I think since then, since 2007, he has been a little hit and miss. Yes he did beat the Legacy, but I wouldn't say he buried them at all. Cody Rhodes' best years were still ahead of him (I don't believe his best years are still ahead of him in 2017 but I'll happily eat my words if I'm wrong), and in my mind, Ted DiBiase Jr. disappointingly didn't possess the same charisma as his dad. They all moved on from that era and I think Rhodes benefitted greatly.

As for other examples, like with Christian, again, he did win a lot of those matches, but to me it was perfectly benefitting the story they were telling with Christian. Christian won the belt, lost it, and could only win it again by disqualification. In story, he could never be what Edge was, and that ate at him. Ultimately, Orton lost the belt to Mark Henry, another veteran who had arguably been more irrelevant in years gone by. At least Christian remained relevant until his last few active months.

I do understand your point greatly though. His recent win at WrestleMania 33 was a head-scratcher for me (well, the entire match was, how poor), but I think people don't recognise it as much because people don't consider Orton to be on the same level as John Cena, or even Roman Reigns. Reigns, at this point, generates more reaction that 95% of the roster, which is significant. Orton has had his highs and lows in his main event run, and arguably that's what has dictated the fan's response to his almost undetected dominance for the last 10 years. Maybe it's because someone has always been there (like Cena, Triple H, Edge etc.) to overshadow him at times. Or maybe it's because people were genuinely more invested in his character than they have been with Cena or Reigns. In 2010, when Orton won the WWE Championship, he was majorly over with the crowd. Therefore, the crowd don't care if he wins all the time, because they like him. Equally, however, his win over Bray for the title has left many (at least it seems anyway) with a sour taste in their mouths. It has for me anyway. When Orton won the title, it was a little "meh". Maybe that effect is setting in for me now.

As far as his backstage antics are concerned, he is one lucky SOB to be honest. But I'm sure, as above posts suggest, it's who you know that sometimes helps you out.
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  #5  
Old 04-10-2017, 06:50 PM
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Didn't he put Barrett over in a big way. I remember they had a pretty lengthy feud and Barrett had a few big wins over him
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:01 PM
Kodo Sawaki Kodo Sawaki is offline
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Simply put, Orton is bigger star. People dont give him too much credit but before Punk, later Bryan, now Reigns and Rollins and AJ, Orton was no2 guy right next after Cena. He isnt Chris Jericho to put over talents clean, he is WWE go to guy when they need someone safe and big enough to put the strap over and have good matches. He loses to Cena, he loses to Reigns, he lost to guys like HHH and Batista, heck even to Rey Mysterio, but wont lose to likes of Ted DiBiase Jr and Cody. Dont expect him to lost a feud from midcard guys just yet, at least clean. As for why his name hasnt come up in discussion why he doesnt put guys IWC likes over, its because he isnt so prominent name like Cena. And because for every loss Cena takes (see Rusev, Wyatt, KO as examples) he takes 3 wins back. You really cant see Orton doing that, he maybe isnt putting people clean (he did lost to guys like Sheamus and even Bryan in build up for Wrestlemania 30) and is protected a lot but almost never see him coming up so decisively on top of feud like Cena does. He lost overall with Authority, he lost overall with Seth even if he didnt put him over clean, he lost in tag matches against Shield in 2 occasions (one at Wrestlemania, other with Evolution). That is why you cant see him so much when people complain about guys hogging that spotlight.
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  #7  
Old 04-10-2017, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrestler36 View Post
Didn't he put Barrett over in a big way. I remember they had a pretty lengthy feud and Barrett had a few big wins over him
Orton beat him 2 or 3 times in their initial feud and loss once following Cena getting Barrett DQ'ed. In their second feud, Orton dominated the rivalry until a Falls Count Anywhere match where Orton was thrown down stairs. However, if I'm not mistaken he came back and beat him again. So to answer your question no.

Randy literally buried the entire Nexus worse than Cena did by literally "Kicking" then off TV and most were repackaged. I have always been a fan of Orton, but lately I'm ready for him to retire and I'm growing quite sick of him burying guys like Bray.

To make a point, Reigns is a young star his self. Yes he should be losing some big matches as well. However, he's in the same generation right now. He's not a legend, it's not like he should be putting people over to prepare to take his role. Cena has definitely been putting people over more recently. Bryan, Shield, Owens, Cesaro (just by the matches alone,) Styles, Rollins, Ambrose, and several others.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:06 PM
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Hasn't he put over in the past Kofi Kingston, Barrett and The Shield?
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:23 PM
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Cena stopped whatever a ton of people hated him for and had great matches nearly weekly on RAW, Great U.S. title run, put over Styles & Ambrose whether people remember that or not. Bray recovered, but he's still booked awful so no one really cares about that burial. Rusev's character was eventually going to backfire and then he's hardly around and when he did show up he had great promos & Matches with Ambrose, Styles, Wyatt, Miz, etc.

I haven't seen anyone who is aware of reality not complain about Reigns whether it be a guy like Braun or a guy like Taker. Every time he does one good thing that does get praise it instantly get's erased by 3 or 4 bad things seemingly (or actually) immediately following. There is also a heavy number of other things people have to go against him in complaints in difference to the overall complaints on Cena.

To Orton.. I've never seen anyone say he has put anyone over or any praise in regards to him putting over anyone. I've literally only heard people talk about how he beat Bryan, or CM Punk from people who compromise the majority WWE fan base. Then people I talk to about pro-wrestling in person and occasionally online don't talk about him, because there are way more interesting things even on the one show he is on to discuss. Literally all I have heard talked about is a few cool things he does, the RKO, a few career high spots / matches and then a bulk of backstage trash and him being lackluster.

He's like a 4x World Heavyweight Champion, 9x & Current WWE Champion, Tag champ, 2x Royal Rumble winner, Money in the Bank winner, Smackdown Tag champ, etc.

That is really, really insane considering I've heard way, way more bad things about him since I've watched WWE on and off as consistent as other wrestling. Lackluster, Untapped potential, Boring, etc are all things I have heard in regards to him without going into past detail. He did put over American Alpha actually, but then beat up Luke Harper 2 or 3 times in singles matches right after. So I mean he's willing to put you over if it progresses him in a storyline that really highlighted Bray which is why really anyone liked it to begin with. After the "Only one RKO. No enhancement needed" shot at Brock and then the actual Summerslam main event I don't think I can take him seriously on a "Sports entertainment" show anyway.

I want to like Randy, but they key word there is want.
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:35 PM
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I think a lot of people forget that Orton is only 37. He isn't exactly at the end of his career yet. He still has a lot of mileage to go. Also, my goodness those examples are horrible.

Legacy didn't need a win over Orton. It would have been a bit early for both of them plus it was a triple threat and not a handicap. His win over Dr. Doom Cody Rhodes did hurt Rhodes however (though the point of that was to remove Rhodes' face mask).

Company probably was not super high yet on Punk when Orton beat him at Mania. I believe this was before he won a WWE championship not via MITB. The story being told made it so Orton had to win. Otherwise he would have looked like a geek. He had to take out the entire Nexus so he could get Punk alone. Losing that wouldn't have made Orton look good.

Orton beating Rollins at Mania was to setup a feud for the title. That wasn't a burial nor the first time a guy cashed in on the same night he lost a previous match. The loss did not hurt Rollins (his cash in overshadowed that) and gave a reason to feud after it. Randy looks good. Rollins looks good. Everyone wins.

The Christian feud was decided by Vince. That whole thing wasn't Orton's fault. If anything, Christian hurt Del Rio by beating him at the PPV before.

Batista insisted Bryan tap him out. Batista was leaving soon and it left a reason for Orton to still want a rematch. The guy on the way out takes the loss. The guy remaining still looks good. That is good booking. The feud beforehand made Bryan look very strong as Orton could not beat Bryan without help (SS - HHH, HIAC - HBK). Plus one of Bryan's big wins actually came over Orton when he was starting to get hot. So Orton did help Bryan.

Kennedy was unsafe. I do not blame Orton for complaining about a guy not being safe. They risk their damn lives out there and of course they will get mad if a guy does something wrong. I highly doubt that one move was the sole cause of Kennedy's firing.

Orton did not need the win at Mania but the feud again, would have made Orton look like a geek if he lost. Spends months infiltrating the Wyatts, breaks them up and then loses would not be a good story. A lot of build for nothing.

Orton really only hurt two guys who constantly tried to beat him. Sandow and Barrett. Those two could have really used a win but I guess management wasn't really high on them. He put Kofi over but Kofi was horribly booked afterwards. I don't think that moment Orton got mad at him put Kofi down. Kofi was stuck after that feud as the title scene was locked up and anyone else available was a step down from Orton. Bad timing for Kofi.
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