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  #1  
Old 09-04-2017, 04:13 PM
d_henderson1810 d_henderson1810 is offline
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Default Why Does Anyone Pay Attention to Dave Meltzer?

I read on here all the time wrestling news where someone says "Dave Meltzer says...."

Why does anyone even pay attention to one word that he writes anymore? He gets many things wrong, and even if he gets a couple of things right, so what? A broken clock is still correct twice a day, but wrong the rest of the time.

Meltzer drove the urban legend that Wrestlemania 3's attendance record of 93,173 was a lie, and it was more like 78,000. What does Meltzer base this on? That he attended a football game, and the Silverdome could only seat 78,000.

EVER HEARD OF FLOORSEATS, MELTZER? It is very possible to sit another 22,000 people on the floor. Remember that Wrestlemania didn't have the elaborate staging which takes up a bit of room back then.

Unless Meltzer can provide evidence that Wrestlemania 3 did NOT have an attendance of 93,173, he needs to print a retraction. He has made the assertion, so it is up to him to prove that WWF lied about the figure to beat the Rolling Stones record.

I bet if WWF underestimated their crowd, Meltzer wouldn't point this out. He would happily let it slide, because he is a WWE hater, and is constantly negative about them. He hasn't been held to account for the things he writes, and seems to continue to put fallacies out there without consequence.

There is a simple way to find out if the WM3 record is true. Just find records of how many people come through the gate at the Silverdome that night. I would think that they would need to keep a count of how many people enter an arena, and while it is thirty years later, it can be found out. The Silverdome don't work for WWF, so their figures could be believed.

Meltzer gets away with saying things like this, without being held to account, because those who listen to him like the fact that he thinks exactly the same as them. Meltzer is a troll who convinces other trolls of what he reports, that often put WWE in a bad light. He is playing anyone who believes him like a fiddle.

So, why do any of you even listen to Dave Meltzer?
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  #2  
Old 09-04-2017, 04:34 PM
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Why do I listen to Dave Meltzer? I listen to Dave Meltzer, or do I listen considering I've never heard him speak. Okay. I believe what I read from Dave Meltzer because,wait, I don't read Dave Meltzer. I believe the information I read that people credit to Meltzer because it pisses you off. You shouldn't get so mad though. It's like 3rd or 4th hand info by the time it gets to me.
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  #3  
Old 09-04-2017, 04:48 PM
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It's true that Meltzer does tend to speak out of his ass a significant portion of the time. But the thing is that he is occasionally right, and while that might mean a few lucky guesses, I think it's only natural for people to run with whatever he says as a potential truth so to rationalise whatever controversial or speculative thing he has to say. Sometimes it's worth discussing simply because whatever he says sparks significant debate.

So far as the Wrestlemania III attendance thing goes, as an example, I understand that it is completely speculative. But to be fair to Meltzer, WWE has openly stated more than once that their attendance figures, particularly at WrestleMania, are exaggerated for "entertainment purposes", which makes me quite embarrassed to be a fan because that's fucking stupid. This is by no means me suggesting that Meltzer should be praised for his good work, because, well, he shouldn't be. He speaks many false truths and indeed would be best ignored, but ultimately I don't think people can help discussing certain things that he has to say, because even if it is untrue, it might just be worth the discussion anyway.

I appreciate the anger you convey here though, and I agree with the sentiments completely. Just being speculative.

Last edited by The Perfect Max : 09-04-2017 at 04:50 PM.
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  #4  
Old 09-04-2017, 05:05 PM
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I'm not a Meltzer fan, but the guy is the longest serving wrestling journalist in the game. He has build a reputation because of accurate reporting more often than not, and he is quick to admit and correct himself when he is wrong. Unlike 90% of wrestling "journalists" he doesn't just report wild speculation to drive his views up. He actually searches out sources and insiders before he makes his articles and reports.

Can he be a giant turd? Totally. Does he play up a character to get eyes on his product? Yup. Does he have a huge hard on for Japanese wrestling? Completely.

Yeah, he has some weird vendetta against WWE's attendance numbers, but he alone isn't the only guy who prefers another promotion to WWE and that doesn't make him unworthy of people paying attention to him.
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  #5  
Old 09-04-2017, 05:08 PM
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Why do you read any of the information that is posted on the main site? Aside from show/card results, it's all speculative.

I think it's the same reason that the forums saw their highest traffic during the CM Punk pipebomb segment. People want to feel like they are on the "inside" of the business and uncover or discover information that has been kept behind the "4th wall". It's also the same reason that people like Adam Schefter and Brian Windhorst have jobs at ESPN. People want insider information, no matter how much validity it might have.
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  #6  
Old 09-04-2017, 06:29 PM
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For me personally, Dave Meltzer is a non issue. If there's information out there that's credited as coming from him, I'll read it and then decide how much I believe it and how much I don't. He's just another journalist to me, no more and no less, and that's about all the stock I put into him. When it comes to all his various opinions on this and that, I usually don't pay that much attention because it's always so one sided that I feel as if I've already read them all before in the past at some point. If some want to abide by his opinion as though it's holy scripture, that's their business so long as they don't expect me to believe the same thing.

What sometimes gets on my nerves is the hypocrisy regarding Meltzer in that he'll sometimes rake WWE over the coals for something while he'll let others, especially ROH or New Japan, get away with it or barely even mention it. For instance, when Katsuyori Shibata was injured after those stiff head butts to Okada early this year, I thought Meltzer would've come out swinging as to how irresponsible, dangerous and just plain dumb such a thing is after all the info that's been gleamed over the past decade or so regarding unprotected head strikes, head butts, etc. and the trauma associated with them. However, he just sort of casually mentioned it, just said it as though it was a ho hum sort of deal and still gave the match a 5 star rating. However, he's tried to crucify WWE in the past, back when unprotected head strikes were going on, including with chairs, for the same issue. It doesn't bother me that he likes Japanese wrestling so much, there's nothing wrong with preferring it at all if that's your thing, but I think it's important that Meltzer gets called out when he allows his personal preference overshadow legit problems that he should address but often doesn't.
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  #7  
Old 09-04-2017, 06:32 PM
d_henderson1810 d_henderson1810 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steamboat Ricky View Post
Why do you read any of the information that is posted on the main site? Aside from show/card results, it's all speculative.

I think it's the same reason that the forums saw their highest traffic during the CM Punk pipebomb segment. People want to feel like they are on the "inside" of the business and uncover or discover information that has been kept behind the "4th wall". It's also the same reason that people like Adam Schefter and Brian Windhorst have jobs at ESPN. People want insider information, no matter how much validity it might have.
I want "insider" information that is true, that actually happened.

I am as big for going behind the curtain of the business as anyone. But I still expect that the information is fact, and not just speculation.

Meltzer speculated that the WM3 attendance was made up. Rather than providing proof, he has repeated often enough, and portrayed it as fact, and if you repeat a lie often enough, people start to believe it.

It kills Meltzer to give WWE credit, doesn't it? Instead of applauding the record crowd, and speaking of this shows how popular wrestling is, he puts a negative spin, says that WWE make it up, just because negative news sells, and he would rather get hits on his articles than give credit where it is due.

Even if Meltzer actually wants to be sure before commending WWE for this, why not give the benefit of the doubt, unless evidence emerges to the contrary? It's on Meltzer to prove his case, otherwise, he needs to stop repeating the WM3 attendance "myth".
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  #8  
Old 09-04-2017, 06:48 PM
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I do listen sometimes to the wrestling observer radio podcast thing he does with Alvarez and I just don't get it sometimes either. He just says "wel that's what they were going to do" or "backstage management thought this" and I'm just thinking how the fuck do you even know this? Because I get the exact same ideas as he does and I've got no insider information apart from the stuff on the internet like he does. It's always a pinch of salt with Meltzer for me. The fact that he just dick rides every smark fan as well (unless they are at the show) is even more reason to hate him.

I watched a video of various wrestlers shooting on Meltzer and they all said the same thing, if he is this god at wrestling promotion/booking etc then why the hell is he never in the business. I actually can't remember any of the names (but some of them were massive in terms of wrestling, oh wait Kevin Nash is one) but they were all pretty big in wrestling history for wrestling or booking.

His opinion isn't bad, I mean I agree with how he thinks of things some of the time, but sometimes he just comes across as "I know this and this is what was going to happen and now it's shit because it didn't happen like this or that." Or a simple you can't do it better than me".

I listen to the guy sometimes so it's not a complete I can't stand you but I do seem to be thinking what the fuck more times when Meltzer speaks than any other wrestler media guy or booker or whatever... except Russo obviously.
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  #9  
Old 09-04-2017, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_henderson1810 View Post
I want "insider" information that is true, that actually happened.

I am as big for going behind the curtain of the business as anyone. But I still expect that the information is fact, and not just speculation.

Meltzer speculated that the WM3 attendance was made up. Rather than providing proof, he has repeated often enough, and portrayed it as fact, and if you repeat a lie often enough, people start to believe it.

It kills Meltzer to give WWE credit, doesn't it? Instead of applauding the record crowd, and speaking of this shows how popular wrestling is, he puts a negative spin, says that WWE make it up, just because negative news sells, and he would rather get hits on his articles than give credit where it is due.

Even if Meltzer actually wants to be sure before commending WWE for this, why not give the benefit of the doubt, unless evidence emerges to the contrary? It's on Meltzer to prove his case, otherwise, he needs to stop repeating the WM3 attendance "myth".
He does play up the whole anti WWE thing because it plays to his base. One of the reasons that Meltzer had a large following, other than his consistent and fact checked reporting, is that he doesn't just puppet what WWE wants people to hear.

He gives WWE credit plenty of times, he has been very high on Braun's booking lately, but he does have this weird obsession with attendance numbers. I think, and I stress think, that he cares so much because he prefers NJPW to WWE and wants to see them succeed, but that's speculation on my part. If you check KB's thread I asked about why Meltzer cares about that subject so much and he gave a better answer than I could.
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  #10  
Old 09-04-2017, 11:53 PM
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Meltzer is respected because he has built up over 5 DECADES of trust within the industry. You do not dismiss something like that. In fact, Meltzer and Bill Apter are the last Mohicans from the Territorial Era. Hell, people might not have liked what came out of the mouths of John Chancellor, Harry Reasoner, Walter Cronkite and Edward R. Murrow. However, if any of those four said it was raining excrement, most people would take it as gospel. Why? Those old curmudgeons of Television built a relationship on TRUST. People trusted them to deliver the news. And, if you were the one making news, you could TRUST that it would be delivered honestly and accurately.

Meltzer built that relationship from the days as a tween offering to cover the old San Francisco Territory. As a protector of kayfabe, he would gain the trust of not only the San Francisco office, but other promotions as well. This would allow him to disseminate needed information to push storylines and other kayfabe projects. This would also allow him to be a trusted receptor of "privileged" information. Like, for example, why Baron Corbin's push got halted.

Yes, Meltzer does get things wrong. Yes, Meltzer loves Japanese wrestling. But, those does not negate the fact that he has been bring us Wrestling news for five decades. There is only one reason he can do that: A lifetime of building trust.
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