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  #1  
Old 12-08-2015, 10:06 PM
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Default Did HHH ever deserve to close Wrestlemania?

Hey guys(and girls).

I was watching Randy Orton Vs Cesaro from Smackdown before Elimination Chamber 2014. Anyhow, images of HHH putting over/losing to Shelton Benjamin passed before me, from April 2004. And then HHH NOT putting over CM Punk in their one and only match at NOC(or was it Vengeance?) 2011. It got me thinking: Obviously, The WWE made a mistake back then since HHH vs Punk would've been better as a first-timer AT Wrestlemania. And so on. And then I thought of how Punk resented the fact that even though he WAS one of the mainevents of Wrestlemania 28 as a defending champion, he never got to close the show..and I wondered if he ever would have gotten to end Wrestlemania, had he been around still...it could've been against anyone...HHH, Cesaro, Bryan, Rollins, even the dreaded and godforsaken Roman Reigns.

But but but, thinking/unconscious memories are rather swift and before even a minute passed, I'm thinking..HHH did actually close Wrestlemanias- 25, 18..and so did Austin, Rock, Taker, among others.

However, I seemed to believe(in my own thoughts), only the biggest matches end Wrestlemania or ought to..including Hogan vs Rock, Rock vs Austin(WM15 and 17)..and even 19, though I'm perfectly fine with Lesnar vs Angle closing the show. But did any HHH match that wasn't the biggest match on that said WM deserve to? If Punk wasn't allowed, or gonna be allowed(which Punk himself said and resented) to close it despite being champ, did HHH?

This isn't specifically an anti-HHH or hate-HHH and all his politics thread. But I really thought of it and clarity on this question still eludes me.

Simply put, what do you guys think? Did he deserve to close the Wrestlemanias he did actually close? You can even specify particular Wrestlemanias, the contexts, the backstage news' from those times if you like. Ciao.

EDIT:-

WM 2000:- The mainevent was Mick Foley vs The Big Show Vs The Rock Vs HHH. Whether he deserved to close WM 2000 isn't subject to debate since that was the mainevent for the WWF championship and it had The Rock.

WM 18:- If I'm not mistaken, HHH vs Jericho was the last match and not Hogan vs Rock.

WM 20:- Well, Chris Benoit won and celebrated with Eddie Guerrero. Again, this isn't subject to debate.

WM 21 and 22 featured him in the mainevents against Batista and Cena respectively. However, I'd like to point out that had they gone with Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker at WM 22 instead of NWO, it should've been the last match and NOT the dreadful HHH vs Cena match.

WM 24:- Taker closed it, if I remember correctly.

WM 25:- HHH vs Orton was the final match, unfortunately. Many believe Taker vs HBK should've been so.

Last edited by RomanfreakinReigns : 12-08-2015 at 10:16 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2015, 12:37 AM
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He deserved it in Wrestlemania 2000, easily the best heel at the time, he just went over Cactus Jack in one of Foley's last matches of his main career.

Wrestlemania 18 should have been Hogan Rock as the main event. I think the reason why it wasn't the main event was up until mania weekend Hogan was meant to stay heel. They changed it to a Hogan face turn and (pretty much) killed the WWE NWO. However, Hogan returning to his Hulkamania roots while wrestling The Rock deserved the main event spot.

Triple H was the best person to put over Benoit in Wrestlemania 20, once again he deserved to be there.

21 is a hard one, all four of JBL, Cena, Batista, and HHH deserved the main event. In hindsight Cena and JBL probably deserved it more. But at the time it seemed as if Batista would be the bigger star. Cena was a guy who got huge fan reactions but was mostly featured on the B show.

22 Cena and HHH deserved it. The match wasn't great but that is the kind of headline that sells tickets and closes a show.

24 Edge and Taker definitely deserved that one. I believe it was their first singles match. At this point Cena, Orton and HHH had matched up fairly often, it was nothing new. Taker vs Edge is a headline that can bring back attitude era fans for one show at least.

25 HHH and Orton should have been a match or two before the main event. It should have lasted 5 minutes. HHH should have run in there and killed Orton with a sledgehammer for what he did to Stephanie. The whole build up was that HHH wanted to avenge her more than he wanted the title. They went and had a normal match. HHH destroys Orton with the sledgehammer. Give the main event to HBK and Taker.
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  #3  
Old 12-09-2015, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renaissanceman2014 View Post
WM 2000:- The mainevent was Mick Foley vs The Big Show Vs The Rock Vs HHH. Whether he deserved to close WM 2000 isn't subject to debate since that was the mainevent for the WWF championship and it had The Rock.

WM 18:- If I'm not mistaken, HHH vs Jericho was the last match and not Hogan vs Rock.

WM 20:- Well, Chris Benoit won and celebrated with Eddie Guerrero. Again, this isn't subject to debate.

WM 21 and 22 featured him in the mainevents against Batista and Cena respectively. However, I'd like to point out that had they gone with Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker at WM 22 instead of NWO, it should've been the last match and NOT the dreadful HHH vs Cena match.

WM 24:- Taker closed it, if I remember correctly.

WM 25:- HHH vs Orton was the final match, unfortunately. Many believe Taker vs HBK should've been so.
Of the matches in question, 18, 21, 22, and 25 are the ones that really have some case to be made, even if the case is small.

18: This is a case of hindsight being 20/20. Okay, so maybe they all are, but Hogan was getting on in years then, hadn't worked a big match in some time (or any match, really. He worked a 3 on 2 handicap match the RAW before. That's it). This was the first Wrestlemania where the Undisputed Title would be defended, and the Jericho/Triple H angle had a ton of time invested in it. This was also red hot babyface Triple H who had just returned from injury. At the time, it made sense for this to be the main event.

21: You could argue that Cena/JBL could have been the main event instead. Regardless, this was the big payoff for both Batista and Cena's rise to the top of the card. But, Batista was a bit hotter, his build was a bit bigger, and he was on RAW while Cena was on Smackdown. Also, the Royal Rumble winner meant more at the time than it does now. It's like a 70/30 coin flip in Triple H's favor.

22: The only other match on the card to overtake Triple H/Cena would have been Rey Mysterio/Kurt Angle/Randy Orton. Could it have happened? Maybe. It would have been the big payoff to the Rey Mysterio/Eddie Guerrero's memory angle, but it would have needed more match time, as that triple threat flew by. Cena was a much bigger deal by this time, and they were putting him over everybody. A clean win over Triple H in the main event of Wrestlemania would have needed an Undertaker/Kurt Angle match to possibly bump it down the card.

25: I think your best case is here. HBK/Taker was huge. The build was huge. Granted, the Orton/HHH build was big too, but felt lackluster in comparison. Also, the payoff was pretty weak. Again, hindsight is 20/20. Nobody knew how good HBK/Taker would be. Nobody knew they'd gas out the entire crowd. All things considered, if Rock/Hogan didn't get to main event, then HBK/Taker is understandably not the main event either. And the other title match of Cena/Edge/Big Show didn't have a shot in hell.

So, I'd have to say that Triple H belonged in each of those scenarios, though sometimes it was because of who he was in the ring with. At 16, it was the storyline, and he was a big part of it. At 18, it was him. At 20, it was both Benoit's moment and another step in the HHH/HBK rivalry. At 21, it was Batista's moment. At 22, Cena's. I guess 25 was his weakest main event slot, but still, it was probably the right thing to do at the time.
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Old 12-09-2015, 01:01 AM
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Wrestlemania 16/2000 - Yes he was the top heel at the time. Unfortunately the main event was crap. WWE should just have either made it a straight up Triple H vs. The Rock main event or Triple H vs. Mick Foley vs. The Rock in a Triple Threat with a special stipulation (like a Hell in a Cell) if they wanted to play the Foley retirement/WM main event angle. Though having Triple H go over is just dumb regardless. If it was Triple H vs. Rock, Rock should have won. If it was a Triple Threat Rock or Foley should have won it.

Wrestlemania X8 - I am going to give the benefit of the doubt here. I am sure Triple H used his politics to close WM but I am also sure WWE didn't realize how big Hogan/Rock match was going to be. I remember someone in the WWE at the time that said they didn't anticipate Rock/Hogan to get the reaction it did. Remember this was the first match like it at the time since WCW recently just went under, I think many expected Rock/Hogan to be a big match but not the epic match it later became.

Wrestlemania XX - Yes since this was mostly because of Benoit's moment than anything.

Wrestlemania 21 - Batista/HHH was a pretty hot angle so yeah plus Batista was going to go over and WWE has trying to push Batsita as one of the next big stars.

Wrestlemania 22 - If WM22 has Taker/Angle instead, I probably would have had them close WM. Otherwise HHH/Cena was fine.

Wrestlemania 25 - Nope. Taker/Shawn Michaels should have closed this. Or at least if they made Jeff Hardy vs. Triple H the main event giving Jeff Hardy his WM moment I could see it closing WM. I would have preferred Orton/Cena and HHH/Hardy as the WM Title Matches TBH. Perhaps I was biased because I never got into the HHH/Orton feud.

Last edited by shooter_mcgavin : 12-09-2015 at 01:06 AM.
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  #5  
Old 12-09-2015, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkmate916 View Post
Of the matches in question, 18, 21, 22, and 25 are the ones that really have some case to be made, even if the case is small.

18: This is a case of hindsight being 20/20. Okay, so maybe they all are, but Hogan was getting on in years then, hadn't worked a big match in some time (or any match, really. He worked a 3 on 2 handicap match the RAW before. That's it). This was the first Wrestlemania where the Undisputed Title would be defended, and the Jericho/Triple H angle had a ton of time invested in it. This was also red hot babyface Triple H who had just returned from injury. At the time, it made sense for this to be the main event.

21: You could argue that Cena/JBL could have been the main event instead. Regardless, this was the big payoff for both Batista and Cena's rise to the top of the card. But, Batista was a bit hotter, his build was a bit bigger, and he was on RAW while Cena was on Smackdown. Also, the Royal Rumble winner meant more at the time than it does now. It's like a 70/30 coin flip in Triple H's favor.

22: The only other match on the card to overtake Triple H/Cena would have been Rey Mysterio/Kurt Angle/Randy Orton. Could it have happened? Maybe. It would have been the big payoff to the Rey Mysterio/Eddie Guerrero's memory angle, but it would have needed more match time, as that triple threat flew by. Cena was a much bigger deal by this time, and they were putting him over everybody. A clean win over Triple H in the main event of Wrestlemania would have needed an Undertaker/Kurt Angle match to possibly bump it down the card.

25: I think your best case is here. HBK/Taker was huge. The build was huge. Granted, the Orton/HHH build was big too, but felt lackluster in comparison. Also, the payoff was pretty weak. Again, hindsight is 20/20. Nobody knew how good HBK/Taker would be. Nobody knew they'd gas out the entire crowd. All things considered, if Rock/Hogan didn't get to main event, then HBK/Taker is understandably not the main event either. And the other title match of Cena/Edge/Big Show didn't have a shot in hell.

So, I'd have to say that Triple H belonged in each of those scenarios, though sometimes it was because of who he was in the ring with. At 16, it was the storyline, and he was a big part of it. At 18, it was him. At 20, it was both Benoit's moment and another step in the HHH/HBK rivalry. At 21, it was Batista's moment. At 22, Cena's. I guess 25 was his weakest main event slot, but still, it was probably the right thing to do at the time.
I completely agree with just about everything you said except for the part about WM 25. Michaels and Taker was great and as great of a build they had, the Orton vs. Triple H feud was build just as good. Also Orton won that year's Royal Rumble(last eliminating....yep, TRIPLE H) which gave him the main event of WM 25.

I didn't even realise Triple H main evented this many WM. It just goes to show how great he can really be. There's not one match on here that I can honestly say Triple H wasn't the best choice for his opponent. How some the matches themselves were booked is a different story but the build and match placement is spot on.(Granted I can't remember much of the road to WM 18)

Last edited by The Samoan Heritage : 12-09-2015 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 12-09-2015, 01:39 AM
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Aside from rare matches like hbk vs Undertaker the WWE title and Royal Rumble winner should main event WM. The better question should be was HHH deserving of the Title or rumble win.
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Old 12-09-2015, 01:43 AM
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There have been numerous interviews regarding WM 18 in which both Triple H and Chris Jericho lobbied for Rock/Hogan to be the main event, because they didn't want to follow that matchup. Vince told them both no because the title had to be the main event.
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Old 12-09-2015, 02:20 AM
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i can totally understand where you are coming from, WrestleMania always put the Main Event / top match / biggest attraction / world title on the line.. as the final contest.. started that way at the inaugural wrestlemania with the biggest attraction / most hype / reason why event sold out not only msg but arenas all over america with closed circuit viewing.. can u imagine today - no ppv, no network, u wanna watch MANIA, buy ticket, go to arena, dark, look up at the big tv screen & it wasn't HD or LED tech!!!
back to topic!
then @ 2, again hogan v bundy, 3 the most iconic main event in wm to date still. still!
4 ehh different concept, 5,6,7 all had final match again as biggest attraction & title, 8 was first mania to advertise " double main event" and the title match was pre- break w/ macho man v flair giving the fans time with a popcorn match & i 4 get how many more before final contest hogan v sid which was no where near as good as flair v savage but it was OVER, & just watch it ended w/ uber long & loud pops for hogan & warrior... then 9 lil weird but yoko beats bret for belt in advertised MAIN then hogan defeats yoko for belt in improptu bout, even tho bret v yoko didnt have a big feel to it it still was the biggest attraction that night.. but it was rushed they could have had HUGE ICONIC battle with Hogan vs Bret but we know whats up w/ that,

10 gave us the most hyped match and title bout last w/ bret vs yoko 2, after yoko beat luger earlier.. but HBK v RAZOR in the 1st ppv Ladder Match stole the show in most opinions - but imo BRET v OWEN in the opening contest stole that show even tho both 2 matches tore it up, the hype was done right no matter how good the work rate in past Bret Yoko needed 2 b last
11 had diesel hbk for title but had bigelow v NY Giants' L. Taylor close the show which i can understand but LT vs BAM BAM should have been been on then popcorn match then hbk v diesel which does deserve me to say it was a great match and for wwe that year moty candidate but i give that to davey v bret from i think iyh dec..

12 one of my fav ppvs which i know is strange, return of the warrior was freakin HUGE for me & my friends since we loved WARRIOR in 88,89,90,91,92 it was more fun to watch his entrance then his match w/ HHH.. well its a non convo, Bret v Shawn had the hype, the title, and it delivered.. yea we had GREAT matches in years past ( 7 savage/warrior, 8 bret/piper, 10 bret/owen) but imo this was the first Main Event to be a GREAT wrestling match and the first main event / final contest to be most exciting / historic since 6 hogan/warrior...
~~ 13 is a Mania that i wish BRET vs AUSTIN was a title match and Last, it wasn't just the match of the night & match of the year but it had the hype, fans "bought into" the feud they went hard & it was pre austin's neck which he was never the same after, UNDERTAKER vs SID needed the title only for it to be main event / final.. but put it on 2 matches earlier w/ a gimmick like casket match or mayb cage or falls count any where it would have worked.. too bad hbk sat out w/ his " my knee hurts" gimmick ( love the way bret used to mock him bout that remember!!!
___14-_____ awesome event to usher in the attitude era full force, with out a doubt AUSTIN vs HBK was a very good match considering the horrific pain hbk was suffering through, i had the same injury in 06, i couldnt even run ring drills cant imagine 20 min main , BUT HBK did what hogan should have done for bret, and cleanly put over the next top guy ( i know hulky did it for warrior but hbk didnt kick out at 3!).. 14 had very good match w/ OWEN HART v HHH which i really wanted/felt owen should have won, very good tag match w/ outlaws v Foley & Funk, shamrock vs rock was good as they were 2 of the best top mid carders along w/ hunter&owen..

well i wanted to cover these as related to ur topic, i say WM4-14 all LIVE at home on ppv, very proud to be a long time fan, i started watching in 87 but saw 1,2,3 on VHS..

so yes i feel HHH deserved to main event / close wm16, not 18 which i was sitting 4th row at SKYDOME and shocked words cant explain the electricity for HULK.. i literally saw a huge sign near me that i remembered seeing on ppv.. but the E had no idea that was gunna happen, and with that much passion, so i prob would have booked hhh v y2j for title the same..

he desevered & delivered at XX (20) along w/ hbk & scumbag addict who was one of the freakin greatest in ring workers of all time def in top 5, & top 3.. but two words : a child ?...

21 him & batista was A. better than cena/JBL, B. had more hype & def felt like the more important match

22 although i did not enjoy it, and i would have changed both main events, for what it was, cena / hhh deserved to be final & i can see since Trips was the man and the only current Heel who had ten + years in the E & was on top, he helped make batista put him over clean, it was like saying ok JBLput u over which placed u at a high cliff so the game will do it next & put u on top of the mountain..

and great decision by Triple H in 2006 cause ten years later, CENA is on top , just watched him on tonight show & he got huge pops & put over WWE besides the new tina fey & leslie knope flick..!..

i will leave it here.. wait must mention WRESTLEMANIA 23 was my favorite WM to be honest taker v batista was awesome & could have main'd / final but HBK v CENA was awesome as well & for title easily deserved & delive.. over delivered in both matches they did, i love 2 main events with the biggest stars of today & yesterday & i wasn;t 100% sure who was gunna win each match which is prob #1 reason why i love those matches & that Event..

hunter earned those spots, and he delivered each one.

i understand if i went too deep, but u dont have to read it all , i enjoyed explaining a topic that i feel strongly about,

its a good topic as the " Main Event of WrestleMania" is such a iconic event in itself, memories, history, legends, immortals, yet some / most of the events - it wasnt the main event that provided the best example of those positive attributes.
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Old 12-09-2015, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renaissanceman2014 View Post
Hey guys(and girls).

I was watching Randy Orton Vs Cesaro from Smackdown before Elimination Chamber 2014. Anyhow, images of HHH putting over/losing to Shelton Benjamin passed before me, from April 2004. And then HHH NOT putting over CM Punk in their one and only match at NOC(or was it Vengeance?) 2011. It got me thinking: Obviously, The WWE made a mistake back then since HHH vs Punk would've been better as a first-timer AT Wrestlemania. And so on. And then I thought of how Punk resented the fact that even though he WAS one of the mainevents of Wrestlemania 28 as a defending champion, he never got to close the show..and I wondered if he ever would have gotten to end Wrestlemania, had he been around still...it could've been against anyone...HHH, Cesaro, Bryan, Rollins, even the dreaded and godforsaken Roman Reigns.

But but but, thinking/unconscious memories are rather swift and before even a minute passed, I'm thinking..HHH did actually close Wrestlemanias- 25, 18..and so did Austin, Rock, Taker, among others.

However, I seemed to believe(in my own thoughts), only the biggest matches end Wrestlemania or ought to..including Hogan vs Rock, Rock vs Austin(WM15 and 17)..and even 19, though I'm perfectly fine with Lesnar vs Angle closing the show. But did any HHH match that wasn't the biggest match on that said WM deserve to? If Punk wasn't allowed, or gonna be allowed(which Punk himself said and resented) to close it despite being champ, did HHH?

This isn't specifically an anti-HHH or hate-HHH and all his politics thread. But I really thought of it and clarity on this question still eludes me.

Simply put, what do you guys think? Did he deserve to close the Wrestlemanias he did actually close? You can even specify particular Wrestlemanias, the contexts, the backstage news' from those times if you like. Ciao.

EDIT:-

WM 2000:- The mainevent was Mick Foley vs The Big Show Vs The Rock Vs HHH. Whether he deserved to close WM 2000 isn't subject to debate since that was the mainevent for the WWF championship and it had The Rock.

WM 18:- If I'm not mistaken, HHH vs Jericho was the last match and not Hogan vs Rock.

WM 20:- Well, Chris Benoit won and celebrated with Eddie Guerrero. Again, this isn't subject to debate.

WM 21 and 22 featured him in the mainevents against Batista and Cena respectively. However, I'd like to point out that had they gone with Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker at WM 22 instead of NWO, it should've been the last match and NOT the dreadful HHH vs Cena match.

WM 24:- Taker closed it, if I remember correctly.

WM 25:- HHH vs Orton was the final match, unfortunately. Many believe Taker vs HBK should've been so.
He should have closed the show against The Rock for WM2000. That Fatal 4 Way was retarded-ass.

This is a situation in which Rock v Hogan should have gone over, both were MUCH bigger draws than HHH or Jericho at the time. Also, the story of HHH lobbying to not be in the main event is bunk, and is something that he says NOW, but did not say at the time. There are interviews where he states adamantly that the title should go on last.

I'm fine with them closing WM XX, HHH v HBK v Some Other Guy was a good match.

Undecided on 21, I guess it's a fine match to put on last. Maybe put Cena on last, as that felt like a bigger moment? Either way, I don't fault it too much either way.

22 was the right call, given the matches that actually happened. I actually liked the HHH v Cena match for what it was. It underperformed, but that's kinda typical of WM main event HHH matches save for WM XX.

25 HBK v Taker should not have been the last match. It was a midcard match that SUPER over-performed. It was just a match between two legend guys who, status wise and draw wise, were about on par with the guys in the main event. The HHH v Orton match had an amazing build, but super underperformed. It still should have closed the show, regardless of how amazing Taker v Shawn was.
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:13 AM
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Mania 2000: Really no debate here. The show had really began to revolve around HHH once his program with Steph began, and he was simply on fire. After just coming off of two incredible matches with Foley and with his long-time rivalry with The Rock (who was also on fire) at an all-time high, there was nobody else that should have closed that event. Just a shame they didn't leave it Rock/HHH though.

Mania 18: Hindsight is always 20/20. It's easy to say that Rock/Hogan should have gone on last, but at that point, the title was almost ALWAYS the last match on the card. There was also no indication that the crowd would turn on The Rock and embrace Hogan like they did... I don't think anybody was expecting that, not even the two guys in the ring at the time. After the fact, we can scold WWE for not putting that match on last, but in this position, I probably do the same thing. Primarily because there was a strong possibility that as a wrestling match, Hogan/Rock would have stunk up the building.

Mania 20: HHH was at the peak of his career in 04 and he and HBK were perfect fodder for Benoit. Again, I see no problem with HHH in this scenario. He made more sense than anybody else considering how hot of a face Benoit was.

Mania 21: I really liked the build to this match and at the time, I was fine with it going on last. Back to hindsight being 20/20 again, in 2005 HHH was the top heel and Batista was being groomed as the next face of the company. Nobody was expecting Cena to explode the way he did following his title win against JBL. Plus, I think Batista/HHH was a lot more intriguing for the fans given their history in Evolution. I have no problem with this either.

Mania 22: There wasn't many other options for WWE worth considering. Cena/HHH as the headliner was a no-brainer for this card.

Mania 25: This is a tough argument to make. I would say that the Orton/HHH build heading into the event was just a tad better than the Taker/Michaels build, plus it was for the title. Again, now that we know how both matches turned out, it's easy to say that we would have made a different decision at the time. It's hard to remember that until their match at Mania 25, Michaels/Taker was just another feud. There was no indication that they would make magic.

So all in all, I think HHH was deserving of all of his Mania main events. Looking back at how things have played out, maybe it was a mistake to have HHH headline a few of those Manias, but if you put it into the proper context, it all made logical sense.
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