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  #1  
Old 11-11-2015, 12:53 AM
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Ding_Dong_#2 Ding_Dong_#2 is offline
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Default Is altering crowd noise the greatest ever insult to wrestling fans?

I’ve lived through David Arquette, The Gobbeldygooker, The Montreal Screwjob, Papa Shango, The “murder” of Paul Bearer, Mae Young’s baby, David Sammartino’s phantom submission match, Katie Vick and much, much more.

Its entertainment, we all know that – that means that you are going to have some duff moments, duff storylines, and some duff characters throughout the years; you wince one week and cheer the next, that’s how it has always been.

But editing crowd noise? Fans and the IWC pay good money to watch wrestling either at home or in various stadia – they have a right, a sincere right, as any sports crowd who have parted with their hard-earned dollars, to an opinion and have a right to express it in any legal way that they see fit. Wrestling organizations create “Superstars” – they ask you to build them up, and when they knock them down, they ask you to support someone else; that is fine, it is a business after all and they believe in what is “best for business”.

But “ask” is the key word here – that is all it should be, a request to support those that they have invested a lot of time and money into. Sometimes, as we all know, people think differently; people like Daniel Bryan and CM Punk would arguably have never got the pushes they did without vehement online support and at the events - this almost forces them into a situation which they loathe, a situation where the fans are telling them that they believe something different to what they are being spoon-fed every week.
Crowd reactions and noises have been responsible for some of the greatest moments in wrestling history – Bruno losing to Superstar Graham, Hogan slamming Andre, CM Punk’s pipe bomb and the aftermath, Undertaker’s streak being defeated and every Monday Night Raw after Wrestlemania. If they alter what we say, then I personally feel used and manipulated – our cheers, boos and reactions are only good enough when you want them to be and it is unacceptable; you can’t compare professional wrestling to organized, professional sport but the principle is the same – it wouldn’t exist without the fans, it wouldn’t exist without is bankrolling them so we are more than entitled to have a voice, and to cheer/boo whoever we like at any volume we like.

I’ve been a fan for around 40 years now, and this situation has pushed me closer to turning my back on professional wrestling than anything else. Roman Reigns is clearly meant to be the next big thing, we all know that but if people don’t think so, then they have a right to make their voice heard at the events. If not, then why bother with crowd noise at all? Why not have it on tape?

I personally think that every fan should be completely silent at every event, show them that you can’t insult us and manipulate our reactions in this way – we deserve better, we pay your wages, we pay those that you “think” we should like and support. At the very least, we should be able to have our voice heard as I said.
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  #2  
Old 11-11-2015, 04:27 AM
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Basically agree with everything except the part of fans sitting silently at every event. They don't care if you sit quiet or cheer or boo, as long as you pat your ticket.
Only response to that is not buying into the product at all.
If you are making it for fans, fine, but if it's just for your own amusement, then you should enjoy it by yourself.
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  #3  
Old 11-11-2015, 07:03 AM
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Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...Rayne is going to make some noise in the draft...
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Professional wrestling companies have been doing this for decades, people are wise to it, yet very few people seem to care. I'm not sure if people's intelligence is being insulted, rather than accurately gauged and measured.
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Old 11-11-2015, 08:05 AM
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WWE, amongst numerous other promotions throughout history, have made regular use of altering their product. In edition to controlling crowd reactions they manipulate images and perception. Getting overly upset over these practices just means one needs to step back and remember just exactly what pro wrestling/sports entertainment truly is. It is a theatrical production sometimes produced for television. WWE is not unlike any production we see coming from Hollywood or Broadway. They have writers, directors, producers and others trying to drive their vision.
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:33 AM
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It's about making money with these guys.. Make any reaction you want, WWE has the right to edit it because it's their show... You talk about being silent at events to show them you can't insult the fans... I got a better idea, how about not BUY a ticket to attend these events in the first place. That's a better way of showing them, as long as your money is in their pocket, they don't care what reaction you make.
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Old 11-11-2015, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbv13 View Post
WWE, amongst numerous other promotions throughout history, have made regular use of altering their product. In edition to controlling crowd reactions they manipulate images and perception. Getting overly upset over these practices just means one needs to step back and remember just exactly what pro wrestling/sports entertainment truly is. It is a theatrical production sometimes produced for television. WWE is not unlike any production we see coming from Hollywood or Broadway. They have writers, directors, producers and others trying to drive their vision.
Can't say it any better than that. Further, I believe wrestling organizations make liberal use of 'claques'....hired people sitting in strategic places in the crowd who start chants and get the audience to follow. Yes, there are chants that originate spontaneously but I feel a good many of them are planned by WWE.

A good example happened during Hulk Hogan's WWE Hall-of-Fame speech. Is there anyone that honestly believes the 'One more match!" chant just happened to occur by itself? Oh, come now.

There are probably other techniques organizations use to manipulate audiences, as well. It's all part & parcel of entertainment.
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  #7  
Old 11-11-2015, 12:28 PM
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It's not always a bad thing to drown out what the crowd is saying.

I was at a RAW taping in Madison Wisconsin; half the crowd would shout "EAT SHIT!!" and the other half would shout "FUCK YOU!!". That chant happened off and on for the entire show.

When I tuned in to RAW the next Monday, all you could hear was the generic noise of crowd chatter.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by enviousdominous View Post
It's not always a bad thing to drown out what the crowd is saying.

I was at a RAW taping in Madison Wisconsin; half the crowd would shout "EAT SHIT!!" and the other half would shout "FUCK YOU!!". That chant happened off and on for the entire show.

When I tuned in to RAW the next Monday, all you could hear was the generic noise of crowd chatter.
Didn't know Madison Wisconsin had it in them to be honest. And since when does RAW tape I thought it was a live show each week, unless of course it's coming from England?

As to the topic at hand. I agree with the above poster that you can't have people swearing and things like that. Just because of the fact that there are a lot of kids in the crowds, and possibly watching on TV. To most of us, we don't give a shit, but some parents don't want to pay a lot of money to hear that around their kids. Some sense of decorum is sometimes advised.

Does it insult me? Not really, the WWE has a plan and if they listened to every keyboard warrior out there and took note of every sign, the we'd have a new champion every week.

But they should listen to what the fans are saying at times. It's been pointed out that Daniel Bryan was put into a position where the fans went nuts when they didn't see him getting what he deserved. I don't know if that was some sort of master plan, but whatever it was it worked, and it was one of the best story lines in the past few years.

With regards to the present roster it's such a diverse group of people that all of them have their fans and their detractors. Fans will continue to boo and cheer who they want, and maybe the best scenario is what someone else suggested, don't buy a ticket or watch the show.

The numbers for RAW are dropping weekly, so people are tuning out. There was also a report that Smackdown a couple of weeks ago had to have half the arena tarped off due to lack of ticket sales. Maybe some are already taking that advice. The real test will be this years Mania and if they can sell out the stadium with what they have, and how many part timers will have to come in and help.
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  #9  
Old 11-12-2015, 04:49 AM
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This is my take on it. Feel free to disagree, of course.

As a wrestling booker, you want your crowd to play along, otherwise the story is fucked, or at least semi-fucked. Since we know that the death of kayfabe along with the Outsiders ruined the face/heel dynamic, it's no longer about who was the better man/woman/third option on the night, but who is cooler, hotter or bearing a stronger resemblance to various traditions' messianic figures.

Okay... So it's not the good guy versus the bad guy anymore, it's my guy versus the other guy. This is the single greatest challenge that they didn't have in the past. People don't accept results anymore, because it's not "my hero lost " anymore, it's "fucking Vince is burying my favourite rookie!!!1!11!".

Not having the crowd play along means the good 9.95$-paying folks at home will have a smaller chance of playing ball as well, snowballing into more and more split crowds, snowballing into worse TV-crowds, etc..

So, from a promoter's perspective, if you want the crowd to play along, you either have to:
1) Treat all your regulars as faces and have them squash only local jobbers for all eternity with no big matches ever.
2) Pipe in the noise and edit Smackdown in post-production.
3) Go back in time to the first fucker who dared cheer for the Macho Man at Wrestlemania 5 and shoot him in the throat before it happens.

I do believe that the WWE chose the lesser of the evils. As much as it is an insult to the fans by muting them and manipulating their noise, it's just as bad cheering for an urn-stealing son of a bitch against Undy at WM 29.
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  #10  
Old 11-12-2015, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ding_Dong_#2 View Post
I’ve lived through David Arquette, The Gobbeldygooker, The Montreal Screwjob, Papa Shango, The “murder” of Paul Bearer, Mae Young’s baby, David Sammartino’s phantom submission match, Katie Vick and much, much more.


I personally think that every fan should be completely silent at every event, show them that you can’t insult us and manipulate our reactions in this way – we deserve better, we pay your wages, we pay those that you “think” we should like and support. At the very least, we should be able to have our voice heard as I said.
If you've been a fan for 40 years why are you upset over this NOW ? I went to a WWE TV taping in December 1992 in Erie PA, they had the ring announcer come out mid show and ask fans to respond to certain wrestlers names...."Tell me what you think of Shawn Michaels ?" crowd boos....."tell me what you think of Ric Flair".....crowd boos....."Tell me what you think of Randy Savage".....crowd cheers. A couple of times when the response was luke warm the announcer would ask again to tell him "How you REALLY FEEL" about said wrestler. This wasn't an audience participation ploy, this was WWE TAPING CROWD NOISE to used at other events for TV.

Did I mention this was 1992 ? I cant say how long that practice had been in place but they sure seemed to know what they were doing so I would guess it had been going on for some time.

Didn't WCW give away comp tickets when they were in Orlando every week to make sure the outside stadium was full for every TV taping and Nitro ? That would have been late 1995/early 1996, got to admit the matches looked great against the backdrop of the setting sun with a full crowd outside, but they were giving away free tickets to create an atmosphere they wanted, not the organically produced atmosphere that would have existed just from die hard fans attending.....kind of like enhancing crowd noise....

Did I mention that was 1995/early 1996, roughly twenty years ago...

I think the greatest insult to wrestling fans is not knowing when someone's push isn't working and still shoving them down our throats. I get that you want us to invest in Sheamus, but lets get real, he's not that good and he's not that interesting, you've forced him on us in different roles constantly for five years and always received the same tepid response..... CM Punk was over.....Daniel Bryan was over......Taker & HHH are over......Seth Rollins is over......Sting was over......Sheamus not so much, please don't force feed him to me in any more main events ?

Crowd noise, or enhanced crowd noise, has been around as long as television has played a role in the promotion of the industry. Ive seen it first hand, it doesn't bother me.
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