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  #11  
Old 09-02-2015, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhodes2TheFuture3313 View Post
I think Bret was selfish in 1994 when he didn't job to Owen at SummerSlam. It would have solidified Owen as a top-player and it could have set-up Bret vs. HBK vs. Diesel in the main event of WM 11.
Huh? Bret wasn't the booker.

He was booked to win. He didn't play politics to get that win.

He put Owen over at WrestleMania, and that MADE Owen. Owen was a nobody in WWF before that.
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  #12  
Old 09-03-2015, 07:37 AM
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What is the logic in saying Bret was selfish for not making Nash look stronger but Nash was right for wanting to make Bret look weaker?

Bret was the champion and he was being positioned to drop the strap to HBK to get Michaels' reign off to as strong a start as possible. How does Bret only holding on to the title because Undertaker interfered when Nash had him beat do that exactly? Bret taking the jacknife powerpomb not only makes him look like a weak champion but it also messes with HBK's start as champion too.

I guarantee you it wasn't just Bret saying he shouldn't take the finisher, there's no way Vince would have allowed it either and I'm sure HBK wouldn't have wanted it if consulted.
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  #13  
Old 09-03-2015, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by comrade_mario View Post
Bret was the champion and he was being positioned to drop the strap to HBK to get Michaels' reign off to as strong a start as possible. How does Bret only holding on to the title because Undertaker interfered when Nash had him beat do that exactly?
Yeah, I agree with this. There was no reason for Bret to take Nash' jackknife at the end of the match. It does everything for Nash and absolutely nothing for Bret, your champion, who is defending the title in the main event of Wrestlemania 12 one month from then. Selfish? No, I wouldn't call it that. More like logic. Why would you make Diesel, who is 4 months away from jumping to WCW, look stronger than Bret, your WWF Champion and face of the company?

It would have been a poor booking decision heading into the Hart/Michaels Mania match, and it would have only added a small element to the Taker/Diesel Mania match. As hardheaded and stubborn as Bret was, he was also very intelligent when it came to the ins and outs of the wrestling business, and he understood that there was no logic in having Diesel look like he had Bret beat.
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  #14  
Old 09-03-2015, 04:55 PM
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I don't think any of that crossed his mind when this issue was brought up. If it were, then why would Vince have asked Bret to take the powerbomb? Nash contends that Vince and Undertaker both asked Bret to take Nash's finish. Also, if Bret wasn't selfish, explain Montreal to me. And don't give me that half assed excuse Bret gave in the documentary with HBK about how HBK said he'd never drop the title to Bret. I don't buy that for a second and the reason I don't buy that is because that was the first time it had ever been brought up before. If that were the reason behind Bret flat out not dropping the title in Montreal, we would've heard about it before that film.
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Thus why I'd let a girl put on a strap-on and get in there. You only live once.
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  #15  
Old 09-03-2015, 06:59 PM
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Was Bret selfish for not taking the move when asked by Vince? Sure. It's Vinces company and Bret should have taken any finish he asked. Would it have helped Taker/Nash for Mania? Absolutely.

The sense behind it? I don't get it. Bret/HBK was a dream match. They wrestled while Shawn was in the mid card during 92/93 but Shawn never posed much of a threat to Bret as champion. With Shawn being a face, you have the two biggest faces in the company headlining mania a month later. Nash was on his way out anyway. I think there could have been a better way to get more heat in the Taker/Nash feud.

Maybe Vince thought Bret looked strong enough and could afford to take the finish. Two ppvs in a row tho?.....I don't get it, plus the storyline of "best in the world" Bret/Shawn should have both been booked as unbeatable IMO.
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  #16  
Old 09-04-2015, 04:26 AM
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Keep in mind guys that you're taking Nash's word for Vince & Taker both wanting Bret to take the powerbomb and Nash, if you've watched a few of his interviews, is a notorious embellisher of the truth. Even when he's not drunk during one of these he brings out some whoppers.

Go check out his explanation of why he booked himself to beat Goldberg and why the fingerpoke of doom happened if you don't believe me. It was on a Legends of Wrestling roundtable but I can't remember which one, possible the Stables one or the nWo one itself. He maintains that he booked himself to beat Goldberg and reform the nWo the next night to run this mega angle of Goldberg cutting through each member one by one to get to Hogan and says the only reason the angle failed was because Goldberg punched out that car window and slashed his arm up to the extent he was out for months.

All pretty reasonable and sounds legit if you weren't watching WCW at the time. If you were than you might have realised that that can't be true because Goldberg punched out the window over a year after the fingerpoke of doom angle and that really what happened was Nash and Hogan's way of positioning themselves on top again and cutting Goldberg's legs from underneath him. Which brings up another thing, Nash should be the last person to point a finger at another wrestler and say they're selfish.
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  #17  
Old 09-04-2015, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by I Am Phenom View Post
I'd like to share a video with you guys:


After watching this video on YouTube, I wrote in the comments that this wasn't the first time I've heard stories from past wrestlers talk about how selfish Bret was and about how he only thought of his own character. I had forgotten that I was talking negatively about Bret Hart on the internet. After I posted that comment, you'd have thought that I killed someone. Some people responded to me and said that the real reason Bret was like that was because he took the business very seriously. Others said that the WWF was building up for their WrestleMania 12 main event and needed Bret to look like a huge babyface for the Iron Man Match vs HBK. I'm of the opinion that it wouldn't have hurt Bret's character at all to just have taken the powerbomb and still walk out as champion. Like Nash said, it would've added to his match with 'Taker and would've made it mean more. One guy even told me that Nash was a nobody then and didn't deserve to perceive to have beaten Bret because he was nothing. To which I responded with how could Nash have been a nobody then when he had just come off of the longest Title run of the 90s? I said at that point in time he was just as over as Bret and HBK. So I thought I would share the video here and get the forum's opinion on the subject.

What do you guys think? Was Bret Hart selfish for not taking Nash's finish before 'Taker pulled Nash under the ring in that cage match or am I completely off base? Was Bret right in what he did? Was it actions like these that led to his problems with guys like HBK and others? Was it actions like these that led to the Montreal Screwjob? Let me know your opinions.
Didn't read all the responses so I apologize if I'm repeating something. With that said you and Nash are both wrong. Bret may or may not be selfish, I don't know, but he was totally right in this instance.

Bret vs. Shawn was the main event of Wrestlemania. It was one of the most hyped WWF matches in a long time. Shawn dominated the RUmble, won cleanly at IYH and had the whole "boyhood dream" narrative going for him. They made him look strong. Now Bret on the other hand essentially lost at RR, and essentially lost at IYH. If he took the powerbomb it would make him look even worse. Bret wanted to have some credibility going into the freaking main event of Wrestlemania.

Bret was a face, and at that time faces never won dirty, Bret was winning dirty twice in a row. He already was looking weak, why make him look even weaker? Why make the champ look like garbage? The main event is what sells PPVs, and him and HBK were the main event. Who would buy the ppv at that time unless you were a shawn fan? Bret looked like crap. Again this was the kayfabe era, Bret wanted people to atleast think he had a chance so more people would buy it.

The Diesel Taker match sold itself. Between the two they had one clean loss in their entire careers. That is a good enough story right there. Two monsters fighting it out.

If Bret was selfish he would have demanded a clean win over Diesel but he didn't. Also he knew he was dropping the belt to Shawn and taking time off, if he wanted to stick it to shawn he would want to look as weak as possible so Shawn's win would look worse.

Bret was looking out for the main event at Wrestlemania, where as Nash and Taker were looking out for themselves. At that time Bret forgot more about wrestling then the both of them knew combined.
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  #18  
Old 09-04-2015, 06:19 AM
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Damn, I just completely realized that I totally posted the wrong video. This is the video that I ment to post:


Still think Bret wasn't selfish?

Also, to the guy that posted above me, I don't know why you felt the need to post here what you posted on YouTube. So if you need a response, go to what I said to you on YouTube.
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Thus why I'd let a girl put on a strap-on and get in there. You only live once.

Last edited by SSJPhenom : 09-04-2015 at 06:21 AM.
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  #19  
Old 09-04-2015, 06:37 AM
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Still think Bret wasn't selfish?
Yes, I still don't think Bret was selfish in this instant. The fact that The Undertaker got mad at Bret (or Nash SAYS Taker got mad at Bret) doesn't change the points that many have made. You think Nash would have allowed himself to be beaten twice in two consecutive PPV's as the champ heading into Mania? You think Shawn would have? Even Taker? I doubt it.

Bret was looking out for himself AND his main event, sure. But what the fuck were Taker and Nash doing? The same damn thing. Bret taking Nash's finish only made the Taker/Diesel match mean more... it didn't do anything for Shawn/Bret. You can spin this and call it selfish for those two to pressure Bret into taking the Jackknife if you tried hard enough. Bret was hardheaded and he always looked out for himself and his family, but so was everybody else in the biz because that's the way pro wrestling worked at this time. It was eat or be eaten. You can call Bret selfish, but than you would have to say that for everyone else who refused to a finish or a match outcome.
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  #20  
Old 09-04-2015, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by I Am Phenom View Post
Damn, I just completely realized that I totally posted the wrong video. This is the video that I ment to post:


Still think Bret wasn't selfish?

Also, to the guy that posted above me, I don't know why you felt the need to post here what you posted on YouTube. So if you need a response, go to what I said to you on YouTube.
I just don't understand how you could think he was being selfish in this scenario. I'm not saying he wasn't selfish, I'm sure at some point he was, I just don't think this instance was selfish at all. Like I said, if he wanted to be selfish he could've demanded to look strong, he could've said "I looked like shit last PPV against taker, I want to win this one clean." Or at the very least make sure Taker came out when Bret had the upper hand. But he didn't, he made still let Nash dominate him and be in control when Taker came out. He just wanted to give himself. the champion, some credibility going into the main event of Wrestlemania. I don't see how that is selfish at all.

Edit: To put it into perspective it would be like asking Warrior to look like shit before Mania 6 to sell an undercard match, or telling Cena to job to Bobby Lashley before Mania 23 to hype up him and Ugama's match, that's what Nash wanted Bret Hart to do. He wanted the face champion going into a face vs. face match that was headlining wrestlemania to look like shit so it could benefit the two 7fter's feuds that were the undercard. And Bret was the selfish one? Sorry I just find this whole thing baffling.

Last edited by agentmichaelscarn : 09-04-2015 at 07:03 AM.
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