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  #11  
Old 07-12-2015, 02:06 PM
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Your first problem is trying to look at Broli's power in the context of the main anime canon. The movies just do not belong there.

Adding together power levels to get to Broli's strength is no use not just because of the canon debacle, translations and power levels being useless post-Namek but also because Goku did not take all of the power of Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan and Piccolo. None of them died.

There is also a point carrying on from the previous thread that the differences in power level are not well explained. Does Broli's dominance of Goku mean he is millions and millions ahead or merely a few thousand? Indeed, in his appearances, Broli's feats fluctuate.

Really, Broli and all of the movies cannot be tied into the anime.

That said, much like with Janemba, I think Broli could have been a good villain in the main series if he and his strength was better integrated. His seemingly inexhaustible Hulk-like rage-based power could have seen even someone like Bils back-peddling.
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  #12  
Old 07-12-2015, 04:09 PM
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I wouldn't put Broly on the level of a SSJ2. I've had this debate/argument many times in the past, and to me he just doesn't seem to be quite at that level. Even when he returns in Second Coming. Perfect Cell beat all the Z Fighters in the same fashion Broly did, except that Goku didn't reach a new level of power against Broly like Gohan did against Cell. And even though Goku did harm Cell, it was clear that Cell was holding back. When he did use his full power the Z Fighters were comparing him to what SSJ2 Gohan had shown up to that point [even though Gohan was holding back himself.] The point of that was to show that at least Goku would have never stood a chance if Cell had used full power from the start. Broly did and it was a one sided beat down. Same thing would have resulted if Cell had been serious and not dicked around. But suggesting Broly to be anywhere near the level of any of the Buu's is certainly a huge stretch. Even Mr. Buu was laughably above a SSJ2.
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  #13  
Old 07-12-2015, 06:03 PM
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I wouldn't put Broly on the level of a SSJ2. I've had this debate/argument many times in the past, and to me he just doesn't seem to be quite at that level. Even when he returns in Second Coming. Perfect Cell beat all the Z Fighters in the same fashion Broly did, except that Goku didn't reach a new level of power against Broly like Gohan did against Cell. And even though Goku did harm Cell, it was clear that Cell was holding back. When he did use his full power the Z Fighters were comparing him to what SSJ2 Gohan had shown up to that point [even though Gohan was holding back himself.] The point of that was to show that at least Goku would have never stood a chance if Cell had used full power from the start. Broly did and it was a one sided beat down. Same thing would have resulted if Cell had been serious and not dicked around. But suggesting Broly to be anywhere near the level of any of the Buu's is certainly a huge stretch. Even Mr. Buu was laughably above a SSJ2.
Super Cell was finished off by a distraction and 1 SSJ2. Broly was killed with a distraction, 3 ssj's (you could argue 1 SSJ2 but that's why movies never come into series context) and the sun. Cell can heal. Broly can't. That kinda puts the big man above Cell by a considerable margin.

That being said, the pity is Broly never got to do much as the LSSJ. He ran wild for about a grand total of 90 minutes before being killed and his second form was a bad attempt at a horror flick. He was probably the most interesting movie villian in the franchise which is why he's so popular. If anything his powers make it so he could reasonably always be a challenge. A rarity given what had to be done with Freeza.
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Old 07-12-2015, 06:18 PM
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Super Cell was finished off by a distraction and 1 SSJ2. Broly was killed with a distraction, 3 ssj's (you could argue 1 SSJ2 but that's why movies never come into series context) and the sun. Cell can heal. Broly can't. That kinda puts the big man above Cell by a considerable margin.
Technically Goku was dead, so I'd argue that Broly got taken down by 2 SSJ's and one MSSJ. Oh sure, the Dragonballs could have brought Goku back from the dead for an instant, but that would have made little sense and would have been par for DBZ movie plot writing. Cell on the other hand, it took a SSJ2 and a MSSJ to take him down. Piccolo, who was stronger than a SSJ, had attacks that weren't even fazing Cell, but yet SSJ Kid Trunks had enough left in the tank to distract Broly in the same manner.

As for the sun, eh... I'd argue that any character up to the Gods would have been killed if blasted into it.

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That being said, the pity is Broly never got to do much as the LSSJ. He ran wild for about a grand total of 90 minutes before being killed and his second form was a bad attempt at a horror flick. He was probably the most interesting movie villian in the franchise which is why he's so popular. If anything his powers make it so he could reasonably always be a challenge. A rarity given what had to be done with Freeza.
I'd actually argue that Janemba was the best movie villain. What I did like about Broly is that he's a no nonsense character. He used full power from the start and didn't dick around like most other DBZ villains. And I think that's a driving reason behind his popularity.
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  #15  
Old 07-12-2015, 06:36 PM
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Broli being restricted by Paragus could have been a good arc for the anime, before going on the rampage. Defeating him would have been a far better way to introduce the fusion dance.

Janemba would be a little more tricky to get a coherent arc out of.
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Old 07-13-2015, 02:33 AM
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Like I said in my op, my opinion is a rough estimate of Broly's power level. That being said, I feel pretty confident in how strong I find Broly to be. 4 SSJs and Piccolo, who is on par with a regular SSJ couldn't even make Broly flinch. I'm of the opinion that he was weaker in Second Coming because he hadn't fully recovered from his wound from Goku. You can even see in Second Coming that that area of his body looked damaged. Not to mention it burst open in the end. My point, however, is that even in Second Coming, Broly in regular SSJ form couldn't be harmed by Goten and Trunks and it's debatable whether Gohan was a SSJ2 in that movie, but even he couldn't harm Broly.

I fully believe that Broly is stronger than a SSJ2, Super Perfect Cell, and Fat Buu. I mean even Trunks was able to send Fat Buu flying with a kick to save Vegeta, but he couldn't do anything to Broly in his regular SSJ form.
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  #17  
Old 07-15-2015, 02:00 PM
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DBZ Topic #3: Who's Stronger Vegito or Gogeta?

I'm back DBZ fans with another weekly topic. I know its only been a few days since my last post, however, I was late with that post. Technically, this is my third week. So after this post I'll be back on track. With this topic I'd like to discuss who's stronger between Vegito and Gogeta and why their attitudes are so different.

Quick note: I'm only discussing Gogeta from the movie Fusion Reborn. Not Gogeta from GT because technically the events of GT never happened.

First, let's discuss their attitudes. For those that don't know; Vegito and Gogeta are both fusions of Vegeta and Goku. Vegito is the end result of their fusion using the Portara Earrings given to them by the Kais. Gogeta is the end result of their fusion using the fusion dance technique. While both characters are fusions of the same 2 characters, they are as different from each other as Vegeta and Goku are from one another. Vegito is very cocky. He's the type that if he's stronger than his opponent he let's his opponent know it with some trash talk. Also, instead of just finishing off his opponent he'll toy around with them. So, to put it simply, he's more like Vegeta then he is Goku. Gogeta, on the other hand, is serious and to the point. He doesn't play around with his opponents or belittle them. Gogeta just simply takes care of business. So he's more like Goku then Vegeta. My theory is that Vegito is the fusion in which Vegeta is the dominant personality and Gogeta is the other way around.

Now onto who's stronger. This is going to be tough to determine because they're both very very powerful. Vegito was so powerful that he was effortlessly able to handle Super Buu after he had absorbed Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, and Ultimate Gohan. To put that into perspective, Super Buu was already stronger than SSJ3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan was even stronger than Super Buu. So imagine how strong Buu became after absorbing Ultimate Gohan and remember that Buu had already absorbed Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo. Even after Buu added all of that power to his own, he was less than nothing compared to Vegito.

Gogeta was so powerful that he was able to kill Janemba in his most powerful form with ease. To put that in perspective; Janemba was way more powerful than SSJ3 Goku. IMO, Final Form Janemba is at least as strong as Super Buu and Gogeta was able to effortlessly destroy him.

So who's more powerful between Vegito and Gogeta? Well if we were to judge by the opposition they each faced, which is really the only way we can judge, then my answer would be Vegito. Even though Gogeta's opponent was way more powerful than all of the other Z Fighters, so was Vegito's. The difference, though, is that even before Vegito's opponent was at his most powerful, he was already stronger than everyone except Ultimate Gohan and then he added Gohan's power to his own and Vegito was still able to effortlessly beat him. I just don't think Janemba, Gogeta's opponent, was any where near as strong as Buuhan.

Neither Vegito nor Gogeta fought anywhere near their maximum power. They didn't have to. For all I know, Gogeta could've also handled Buuhan with ease. We'll just never know. However, since Vegito's opponent is stronger than Gogeta's, I'd have to say that Vegito is the stronger of the two.

What do you all think? Which one is the stronger fusion? Could Gogeta handle Buuhan? Which fusion do you prefer? Let me know your opinions.
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  #18  
Old 07-15-2015, 02:57 PM
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The strength of the Potara earrings fusion being far more potent than the fusion dance is all we really have to go on in a Gogeta vs Vegito argument.

I tend to think that Vegito is significantly more powerful because of that.

Trying to measure Janemba against the various Buus is tricky. The only point of reference is SSJ3 being something of match for Majin, Super and Kid as well as Janemba. I think his dimension-warping abilities helped Janemba to a more comprehensive upper hand over Goku than power level legislated for.
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Old 07-15-2015, 04:20 PM
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Vegito. The Potara earrings were blatantly stated in the manga canon to be much more potent than the fusion dance. Vegito was also stated to have received an additional power boost from the fact that Vegeta and Goku were rivals.

If you are trying to compare the power of the two with non canon material like the anime and video games, there's an animation in DB Heroes where Gogeta fights Base Super Buu as a SSJ2.

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In the same scene we see Base Vegito holding his own with an upgraded Majin Janemba. In the Fusion Reborn movie Gogeta immediately went SSJ to ensure a victory over a weaker version.

So pretty evident in either manga or anime/movie continuations that Vegito is stronger.
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  #20  
Old 07-15-2015, 08:22 PM
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Vegito. The Potara earrings were blatantly stated in the manga canon to be much more potent than the fusion dance. Vegito was also stated to have received an additional power boost from the fact that Vegeta and Goku were rivals.
This^. There is no disputing this blatant fact. While the Fusion Dance is powerful in its own right, the Potara fusion was stated to just flat out be superior. The whole Goku and Vegeta rivalry thing completing the fusion could probably also be applied to Gogeta as well though I would imagine. Still, it wouldn't matter because the Potara Fusion is just a superior way of fusing.
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