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  #1  
Old 07-03-2015, 02:32 AM
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Default The Dragon Ball Z Thread

Calling all DBZ fans!!!! In celebration of the Dragon Ball movie and series being released, I'm going to post a new DBZ thread every week with various topics. Topics like: Who is the strongest human, how powerful is Broly, was Ultra Super Saiyan as strong or even stronger than Super Saiyan 2, what if future Trunks came back during the Buu Saga, etc. My first topic is going to be about the most widely debated topic among DBZ fans: Power Levels.

Before I get started I want to mention that I will be following the Manga for the most part. Also, I am going to add in the different debated levels among characters. For example: Was Vegito just a Super Saiyan or was he at Super Saiyan 2? I'll do levels for both. Here we go.

Raditz Saga:

Farmer: 5
Piccolo: 322
-(W/O Weights): 400
-(1st Special Beam Cannon): 1,330
-(2nd Special Beam Cannon): 1,440
Goku: 330
-(W/O Weights): 416
-(Kamehameha): 950
Gohan: 710
-(Angry): 1,370
Raditz: 1,200
Krillin: 206
Master Roshi: 139
Turtle: 0.0001

Vegeta Saga:

Piccolo: 1,400
-(Maxed Out): 3,000
Krillin: 1,100
-(Energy Blast): 2,200
Gohan: 900
-(Masenko): 2,800
-(Great Ape): 9,000
Siabamen: 1,200
Tien: 1,300
-(Tri Beam): 3,500
Yamcha: 1,000
Chiatzu: 700
Nappa: 4,000
-(Full Power): 7,000
Goku: 5,000
-(Full Power): 8,000
-(Kiaoken): 12,000
-(Kiaoken x2): 16,000
-(Kiaoken x3): 24,000
-(Kiaoken x4): 32,000
Vegeta: 18,000
-(Galick Gun): 24,000
-(Great Ape): 180,000
Yajirobi: 800

Namek Saga:

Gohan: 1,500
-(Power Unlocked): 20,000
Krillin: 1,500
-(Power Unlocked): 16,000
Vegeta: 24,000
-(Recovered from Zarbon): 36,000
Namekain Warriors: 1,000
-(Full Power): 3,000
Nail: 42,000
Frieza's Henchmen: 1,200
Cui: 18,000
Dadoria: 22,000
Zarbon: 23,000
-(Transformed): 33,000
Frieza: 540,000

Ginyu Force Saga:

Gohan: 20,000
-(Recovered from Recoome): 100,000
Krillin: 16,000
Vegeta: 36,000
-(Recovered from Recoome): 150,000
Goku: 90,000
-(Kiaoken x2): 180,000
-(Inside Ginyu's Body): 20,000
Guldo: 10,000
Recoome: 50,000
Burter: 55,000
Jeice: 60,000
Captain Ginyu: 120,000
-(Inside Goku's Body): 23,000

Frieza Saga:

Krillin: 16,000
Gohan: 100,000
-(After Krillin's Stabbed): 500,000
-(Recovered from Frieza): 200,000
-(Masenko): 1,500,000
Nail: 42,000
Piccolo: 30,000
-(Fused with Nail): 920,000
Vegeta: 150,000
-(Recovered from Krillin): 250,000
Goku: 300,000
-(Kiaoken x10): 3,000,000
-(Kiaoken x20): 6,000,000
-(Super Saiyan): 15,000,000
Frieza: 540,000
-(2nd Form): 1,000,000
-(3rd Form): 2,000,000
-(Final Form 1%): 120,000
-(Final Form 10%): 1,200,000
-(Final Form 25%): 3,000,000
-(Final Form 50%): 6,000,000
-(Final Form 100%): 12,000,000

Trunks Saga:

Krillin: 50,000
Yamcha: 35,000
Tien: 45,000
Chiatzu: 15,000
Piccolo: 1,500,000
Gohan: 250,000
Vegeta: 350,000
Trunks: 340,000
-(Super Saiyan): 17,000,000
Goku: 400,000
-(Super Saiyan): 20,000,000
King Cold: 14,000,000
Mecca Frieza: 16,000,000

Android Saga:

Krillin: 200,000
Yamcha: 150,000
Tien: 250,000
Gohan: 400,000
Piccolo: 28,000,000
Trunks: 600,000
-(Super Saiyan): 30,000,000
Goku: 700,000
-(Super Saiyan): 35,000,000
Vegeta: 740,000
-(Super Saiyan): 38,000,000
Android 19: 22,000,000
Dr. Gero: 25,000,000
Android 18: 40,000,000
Android 17: 45,000,000
Android 16: 50,000,000

Imperfect Cell Saga:

Gohan: 400,000
Trunks: 600,000
-(Super Saiyan): 30,000,000
Goku: 700,000
-(Super Saiyan): 35,000,000
Vegeta: 740,000
-(Super Saiyan): 38,000,000
Piccolo: 28,000,000
-(Fused with Kami): 45,000,000
Android 18: 40,000,000
Android 17: 45,000,000
Android 16: 50,000,000
Imperfect Cell: 38,000,000
-(Humans Absorbed): 50,000,000

Semi-Perfect Cell Saga:

Gohan: 400,000
Tien: 250,000
-(Tri Beam): 2,500,000
Piccolo: 45,000,000
Goku: 700,000
-(Super Saiyan): 35,000,000
Vegeta: 740,000
-(After Time Chamber): 1,000,000
-(Super Saiyan): 50,000,000
-(Ultra Super Saiyan): 100,000,000
Trunks: 600,000
-(After Time Chamber) 1,100,000
-(Super Saiyan): 55,000,000
-(Ultra Super Saiyan): 110,000,000
Imperfect Cell: 50,000,000
-(17 Absorbed): 95,000,000
-(18 Absorbed): 135,000,000

Cell Games Saga:

Piccolo: 45,000,000
-(After Time Chamber): 70,000,000
Trunks: 1,100,000
-(2nd Time Chamber): 1,700,000
-(Super Saiyan): 85,000,000
Vegeta: 1,000,000
-(2nd Time Chamber): 1,800,000
-(Super Saiyan): 90,000,000
Goku: 700,000
-(After Time Chamber): 2,200,000
-(Super Saiyan): 110,000,000
-(Full Power Super Saiyan): 130,000,000
Gohan: 400,000
-(After Time Chamber): 2,000,000
-(Super Saiyan): 100,000,000
-(Full Power Super Saiyan): 120,000,000
-(Super Saiyan 2): 200,000,000
Cell Jrs: 95,000,000
Perfect Cell: 135,000,000
-(Bulked Up): 170,000,000
-(Super Perfect Cell): 195,000,000

World Tournament Saga:

Krillin: 300,000
Goten: 700,000
-(Super Saiyan): 35,000,000
Trunks: 750,000
-(Super Saiyan): 37,500,000
Android 18: 40,000,000
Piccolo: 75,000,000
Kabito: 60,000,000
Supreme Kai: 80,000,000
Gohan: 1,800,000
-(Super Saiyan): 90,000,000
-(Super Saiyan 2): 180,000,000
Vegeta: 2,800,000
Goku: 3,000,000
Spoppavich: 10,000
Yamu: 15,000

Buu Saga:

Krillin: 300,000
Kabito: 60,000,000
Piccolo: 75,000,000
Supreme Kai: 80,000,000
Kabito Kai: 140,000,000
Goten: 700,000
-(Super Saiyan): 35,000,000
Trunks: 750,000
-(Super Saiyan): 37,500,000
Gotenks: 1,450,000
-(Super Saiyan): 72,500,000
-(After Time Chamber): 3,375,000
-(Super Saiyan): 168,750,000
-(Super Saiyan 3): 675,000,000
Gohan: 1,800,000
-(Super Saiyan): 90,000,000
-(Super Saiyan 2): 180,000,000
-(Ultimate Gohan): 760,000,000
Vegeta: 2,800,000
-(Super Saiyan): 140,000,000
-(Super Saiyan 2): 280,000,000
-(Majin Vegeta): 300,000,000
Goku: 3,000,000
-(Super Saiyan): 150,000,000
-(Super Saiyan 2): 300,000,000
-(Super Saiyan 3): 600,000,000
Vegito: 11,500,000
-(Super Saiyan): 575,000,000
-(Super Saiyan 2): 1,500,000,000
Pui Pui: 2,000,000
Yakon: 30,000,000
Dabura: 130,000,000
Majin Buu: 325,000,000
Evil Buu: 350,000,000
Super Buu: 675,000,000
-(Buucolo): 750,000,000
-(Buutenks): 1,395,000,000
-(Buuhan): 1,425,000,000
Kid Buu: 595,000,000

Well that's my list. Let me know what you guys think. Am I way off, am I on track. If you have a question about anything, let me know.
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  #2  
Old 07-06-2015, 08:40 PM
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Ugh, I hate power levels. They are always so up there you know? I've read many things on them. By the time the Buu Saga rolled around, power levels were so ridiculously high that they just weren't worth calculating. That and, for the most part, they are all over the place. The whole point of the scouter was to show how inaccurate power levels really are.

Everything up till the Trunks Saga is official, but everything after that is not and just pure speculation. But just going on speculation, lets take a look anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Phenom View Post
Android Saga:

Krillin: 200,000
Yamcha: 150,000
Tien: 250,000
Gohan: 400,000
Piccolo: 28,000,000
Trunks: 600,000
-(Super Saiyan): 30,000,000
Goku: 700,000
-(Super Saiyan): 35,000,000
Vegeta: 740,000
-(Super Saiyan): 38,000,000
Android 19: 22,000,000
Dr. Gero: 25,000,000
Android 18: 40,000,000
Android 17: 45,000,000
Android 16: 50,000,000
The only thing I have an issue here with is Piccolo. Piccolo was strong yes. Out of the 3 Super Saiyans, He would definitely be 4th in line. But to place him that close to a Super Saiyan at that time is a bit of a stretch. I'd place him more comfortably at 20,000,000. Therefore that means Dr Gero would also drop to around 10,000,000-15,000,000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Phenom View Post
Cell Games Saga:

Piccolo: 45,000,000
-(After Time Chamber): 70,000,000
Trunks: 1,100,000
-(2nd Time Chamber): 1,700,000
-(Super Saiyan): 85,000,000
Vegeta: 1,000,000
-(2nd Time Chamber): 1,800,000
-(Super Saiyan): 90,000,000
Goku: 700,000
-(After Time Chamber): 2,200,000
-(Super Saiyan): 110,000,000
-(Full Power Super Saiyan): 130,000,000
Gohan: 400,000
-(After Time Chamber): 2,000,000
-(Super Saiyan): 100,000,000
-(Full Power Super Saiyan): 120,000,000
-(Super Saiyan 2): 200,000,000
Cell Jrs: 95,000,000
Perfect Cell: 135,000,000
-(Bulked Up): 170,000,000
-(Super Perfect Cell): 195,000,000
Couple things here. You are saying that both Trunks and Vegeta got weaker from training the second time in the hyperbolic time chamber? I think to be fair, they should be at least on par with their *ultra* forms as regular Super Saiyans. Also Super Saiyan 2 Gohan I figure would be a bit higher. From what most people think, 250 million - 350 million seems to be the neighborhood they would place him at. 200 million just seems a bit low. Therefore, Super Perfect Cell would naturally be higher as well. Around the same ball park.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Phenom View Post
Buu Saga:

Krillin: 300,000
Kabito: 60,000,000
Piccolo: 75,000,000
Supreme Kai: 80,000,000
Kabito Kai: 140,000,000
Goten: 700,000
-(Super Saiyan): 35,000,000
Trunks: 750,000
-(Super Saiyan): 37,500,000
Gotenks: 1,450,000
-(Super Saiyan): 72,500,000
-(After Time Chamber): 3,375,000
-(Super Saiyan): 168,750,000
-(Super Saiyan 3): 675,000,000
Gohan: 1,800,000
-(Super Saiyan): 90,000,000
-(Super Saiyan 2): 180,000,000
-(Ultimate Gohan): 760,000,000
Vegeta: 2,800,000
-(Super Saiyan): 140,000,000
-(Super Saiyan 2): 280,000,000
-(Majin Vegeta): 300,000,000
Goku: 3,000,000
-(Super Saiyan): 150,000,000
-(Super Saiyan 2): 300,000,000
-(Super Saiyan 3): 600,000,000
Vegito: 11,500,000
-(Super Saiyan): 575,000,000
-(Super Saiyan 2): 1,500,000,000
Pui Pui: 2,000,000
Yakon: 30,000,000
Dabura: 130,000,000
Majin Buu: 325,000,000
Evil Buu: 350,000,000
Super Buu: 675,000,000
-(Buucolo): 750,000,000
-(Buutenks): 1,395,000,000
-(Buuhan): 1,425,000,000
Kid Buu: 595,000,000
My main issue here is Goku SSj3 and Vegito SSJ. For starters, Vegito never went SSJ2. Two, Goku Struggled against Buutenks as a Super Saiyan 3. So by your assessment here, Goku as a SSJ3 could hold his own against Buuhan more than Super Saiyan Vegitio, even though Vegito only went into a regular Super Saiyan form to combat against Buuhan. Replace Super Saiyan Vegitos power with the power you have for his SSJ2 form and then it would be more accurate. If Vegitos power was 1,500,000,000 then his base would be 30,000,000. Also, Vegito as a Super Saiyan was supposedly vastly superior to Buuhan. If their powers were that close to each other, then the fight would have been far more even. It wasn't. Buuhan barely managed to touch Vegito. So I think that Buuhan is too high. 1,000,000,000 seems nice.

All in all, solid but for all we know, they could be way off so who knows. Curious why you didn't post any Battle of Gods are Resurrection F power levels.
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  #3  
Old 07-07-2015, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
The only thing I have an issue here with is Piccolo. Piccolo was strong yes. Out of the 3 Super Saiyans, He would definitely be 4th in line. But to place him that close to a Super Saiyan at that time is a bit of a stretch. I'd place him more comfortably at 20,000,000. Therefore that means Dr Gero would also drop to around 10,000,000-15,000,000.
I feel very comfortable with their power levels where they're at. First off, I refuse to believe that Dr. Gero and #19 were weaker than Frieza. Also, in both the anime and Manga, Krillin stated that Piccolo's power was very close to that of a Super Saiyan's while he was fighting Gero.

Quote:
Couple things here. You are saying that both Trunks and Vegeta got weaker from training the second time in the hyperbolic time chamber? I think to be fair, they should be at least on par with their *ultra* forms as regular Super Saiyans. Also Super Saiyan 2 Gohan I figure would be a bit higher. From what most people think, 250 million - 350 million seems to be the neighborhood they would place him at. 200 million just seems a bit low. Therefore, Super Perfect Cell would naturally be higher as well. Around the same ball park.
Trunks and Vegeta didn't get weaker, they just never used their Ultra forms again. Also, their power levels didn't increase as much the second time because of the grueling nature of the training. Which was one of the reasons Goku didn't go back in. Lastly, I made their power levels that way because they had serious trouble with the Cell Jr's.

Quote:
My main issue here is Goku SSj3 and Vegito SSJ. For starters, Vegito never went SSJ2. Two, Goku Struggled against Buutenks as a Super Saiyan 3. So by your assessment here, Goku as a SSJ3 could hold his own against Buuhan more than Super Saiyan Vegitio, even though Vegito only went into a regular Super Saiyan form to combat against Buuhan. Replace Super Saiyan Vegitos power with the power you have for his SSJ2 form and then it would be more accurate. If Vegitos power was 1,500,000,000 then his base would be 30,000,000. Also, Vegito as a Super Saiyan was supposedly vastly superior to Buuhan. If their powers were that close to each other, then the fight would have been far more even. It wasn't. Buuhan barely managed to touch Vegito. So I think that Buuhan is too high. 1,000,000,000 seems nice.
You should 're-read the levels. I have SSJ3 Goku at a mere 600 million while Buutenks is at 1 billion 395 million. I don't see how Goku would hold his own against that. Also, if you'll recall, when Vegito transformed he had all of the signs of a SSJ2. Extremely spiked hair and an electric aura. He also continued to produce an electric aura throughout the fight. Also, I feel comfortable with the gap between Vegito and Buuhan. I have Vegito at 75 million higher than Buuhan. That's a pretty wide margin. Z fighters have dominated fights with a lot less of a gap than that.

Quote:
All in all, solid but for all we know, they could be way off so who knows. Curious why you didn't post any Battle of Gods are Resurrection F power levels.
I didn't do those movies because no information has been released on how much the SSG and SSGSS levels increase their powers.
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  #4  
Old 07-07-2015, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Phenom View Post
I feel very comfortable with their power levels where they're at. First off, I refuse to believe that Dr. Gero and #19 were weaker than Frieza. Also, in both the anime and Manga, Krillin stated that Piccolo's power was very close to that of a Super Saiyan's while he was fighting Gero.
Close to what degree by marginal comparison? 28 million is close, 25 million is also fairly close. I'd even argue that 20 million is close at that time. Piccolo is 28 million while Trunks is 30. Piccolo may be strong but I just have a hard time beleving that Piccolo can match a Super Saiyans power by that close. Even if stated in both the Manga and Anime, its still pretty vague when they state something like that since when don't really have much a comparison. Another point, Dr Gero had failed to impute the calculations needed to include everything that happened on Namek. That's a pretty large chapter he omitted from his database. Not to mention he was also unaware of the fact that the Z fighters were warned of their arrival. that's mistake number 2. taking into those factors then yes, I think it would be fair to assume that 19 and 20 were indeed weaker than full powered Frieza.

Also as the series progresses and power levels do increase, something that would seem like a big number increase difference like a few million doesn't actually mean much as we go on. Goku as a Super Saiyan was said to be 150 million while fighting frieza. Frieza was said to be 120 million(dragon ball Wiki). That's a 30 million gap but yet up until the end, it was a fair even battle despite the huge number gap. Also, I was thinking that their powers at the time were both 15 and 12 million respectively for some reason. But see that they were actually that powerful means every power you put down was pretty way off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Phenom View Post
Trunks and Vegeta didn't get weaker, they just never used their Ultra forms again. Also, their power levels didn't increase as much the second time because of the grueling nature of the training. Which was one of the reasons Goku didn't go back in. Lastly, I made their power levels that way because they had serious trouble with the Cell Jr's.
Fair point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Phenom View Post
You should 're-read the levels. I have SSJ3 Goku at a mere 600 million while Buutenks is at 1 billion 395 million. I don't see how Goku would hold his own against that. Also, if you'll recall, when Vegito transformed he had all of the signs of a SSJ2. Extremely spiked hair and an electric aura. He also continued to produce an electric aura throughout the fight. Also, I feel comfortable with the gap between Vegito and Buuhan. I have Vegito at 75 million higher than Buuhan. That's a pretty wide margin. Z fighters have dominated fights with a lot less of a gap than that.
The point I was trying to make was that theoretically, by your numbers, Goku SSj3 would have a better chance at fighting Buutenks than SSJ Vegito would. Also, its common misconception but Vegito only used his base SSJ form while fighting Buuhan. I think even elder Kai said that the added powers of a Super Saiyan would likely not be needed to defeat Buu. This eludes to the immense strength of Vegito.

I still believe that Vegito should be much higher than Buuhan. As I've stated before, as power levels continue to reach new heights in the series, they eventually become unimaginably large. So large than I think something as seemingly significant difference as 75 million, is in fact rather insignificant. I've pointed this out by comparing the difference in powers between SSJ Goku and 100% Frieza. Vegito didn't even break so much of a sweat fighting Buuhan. It was so much of a difference that Vegito was hardly putting in any effort at all because he was just that much stronger. As I've said, it was eluded that his base form would have been more than enough to beat Buu. Going Super Saiyan is just toying with him at that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Phenom View Post
I didn't do those movies because no information has been released on how much the SSG and SSGSS levels increase their powers.
Just throw out an educated guess seeing as how that's what every power after the Trunks saga is. Not a jab at you,just officially, its any ones guess.
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Old 07-07-2015, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by lenguy View Post
Close to what degree by marginal comparison? 28 million is close, 25 million is also fairly close. I'd even argue that 20 million is close at that time. Piccolo is 28 million while Trunks is 30. Piccolo may be strong but I just have a hard time beleving that Piccolo can match a Super Saiyans power by that close. Even if stated in both the Manga and Anime, its still pretty vague when they state something like that since when don't really have much a comparison. Another point, Dr Gero had failed to impute the calculations needed to include everything that happened on Namek. That's a pretty large chapter he omitted from his database. Not to mention he was also unaware of the fact that the Z fighters were warned of their arrival. that's mistake number 2. taking into those factors then yes, I think it would be fair to assume that 19 and 20 were indeed weaker than full powered Frieza.
Good point.

Quote:
Also as the series progresses and power levels do increase, something that would seem like a big number increase difference like a few million doesn't actually mean much as we go on. Goku as a Super Saiyan was said to be 150 million while fighting frieza. Frieza was said to be 120 million(dragon ball Wiki). That's a 30 million gap but yet up until the end, it was a fair even battle despite the huge number gap. Also, I was thinking that their powers at the time were both 15 and 12 million respectively for some reason. But see that they were actually that powerful means every power you put down was pretty way off.
I looked at the Dragon Ball wiki page and what you have to realize about that page is that it is also fan made. Let me give you insight into how I viewed the power levels. Vegeta's max on earth was 18,000. After recovering and landing on Namek, his power level was 24,000. That's fact from both the manga and anime. After being defeated by Zarbon and recovering, his power level was in the 30,000s. Why? Because he was still weaker than the Ginyu Force. For Dragon Ball wiki to be anywhere near right, that means that after he recovered from Recoome, his power level increased more than 10x what it was before from a zenkai boost? If that's the case, then Why wasn't his power level much higher than 24,000 after recovering from his battle with Goku? I refuse to believe that he gets these small little zenkai boosts and then all of a sudden his power increases over 10x from one. Same with Goku. He landed on Namek with a power level of 90,000. For Dragon Ball Wiki to be correct that would mean that after he recovered from Ginyu his power increased around 34 times what it was. Why didn't it increase that much from Vegeta? I don't think the power levels from Dragon Ball Wiki are accurate. They just don't make sense.

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The point I was trying to make was that theoretically, by your numbers, Goku SSj3 would have a better chance at fighting Buutenks than SSJ Vegito would. Also, its common misconception but Vegito only used his base SSJ form while fighting Buuhan. I think even elder Kai said that the added powers of a Super Saiyan would likely not be needed to defeat Buu. This eludes to the immense strength of Vegito.

I still believe that Vegito should be much higher than Buuhan. As I've stated before, as power levels continue to reach new heights in the series, they eventually become unimaginably large. So large than I think something as seemingly significant difference as 75 million, is in fact rather insignificant. I've pointed this out by comparing the difference in powers between SSJ Goku and 100% Frieza. Vegito didn't even break so much of a sweat fighting Buuhan. It was so much of a difference that Vegito was hardly putting in any effort at all because he was just that much stronger. As I've said, it was eluded that his base form would have been more than enough to beat Buu. Going Super Saiyan is just toying with him at that point.
I get your point but logically explain to me how 2 warriors, who aren't a match for Buu at their most powerful which is SSJ3 and SSJ2 respectively going to fuse and then be more powerful then Buu in their weakest form? If the potara fusion was that strong then why didn't Kabito Kai get way stronger? Also, I don't think Vegito was that much more powerful then Buu. Sure he was stronger, but remember, when Buu got angry and started to rip holes in the dimension, Vegito struggled to break through his force field to stop him.
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Old 07-08-2015, 06:50 AM
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I get your point but logically explain to me how 2 warriors, who aren't a match for Buu at their most powerful which is SSJ3 and SSJ2 respectively going to fuse and then be more powerful then Buu in their weakest form? If the potara fusion was that strong then why didn't Kabito Kai get way stronger? Also, I don't think Vegito was that much more powerful then Buu. Sure he was stronger, but remember, when Buu got angry and started to rip holes in the dimension, Vegito struggled to break through his force field to stop him.
Pretty certain that the seeming disparity in Vegito's level when compared with Vegeta and Goku is addressed in the show with Elder Kai speaking of how the rivalry and opposite characters of Vegeta and Goku made for a far more potent fusion than a normal potara fusion such as Elder Kai himself and Kaibito.

You also have to remember that Vegito had no intention of destroying Buu so he could save his sons. He was holding back at all stages. Even when the universe was threatened by Buu's anger, when he could likely have powered up some ridiculous Kamehameha to burst through Buu's shield and turn him to dust with ease, instead he went with a punch.

Vegito had Buu on toast from the very beginning.
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:18 PM
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I don't like power levels either. Akira Toriyama has stated before that the power level system after the Frieza saga was essentially bullshit. As all the characters had reached levels where they couldn't feasibly and properly be measured by the technology at the time. And then you have the Kili system used by Babidi which is totally different than the system used by the Galactic Frieza Army, as SSJ Goku had a PL of 3,000, where in the other he had a PL of 150,000,000 [depending on which guidebook translation you use.] And I don't even think you could place a number next to the gods as they have special attributes, and I don't even think the author himself has any idea how powerful they actually are.

But quickly scanning the list I see your PL list is at least consistent with the manga, as people often use the anime, which leads to all kinds of fuckery. Super Buu in base should be > SS3 Goku. And just slightly > than SS3 Gotenks. And SS3 Goku should be slightly > than Kid Buu. The whole reason he lost the fight was due to ki drain. Kid Buu should actually be the second weakest form of Buu.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:48 PM
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I looked at the Dragon Ball wiki page and what you have to realize about that page is that it is also fan made. Let me give you insight into how I viewed the power levels. Vegeta's max on earth was 18,000. After recovering and landing on Namek, his power level was 24,000. That's fact from both the manga and anime. After being defeated by Zarbon and recovering, his power level was in the 30,000s. Why? Because he was still weaker than the Ginyu Force. For Dragon Ball wiki to be anywhere near right, that means that after he recovered from Recoome, his power level increased more than 10x what it was before from a zenkai boost? If that's the case, then Why wasn't his power level much higher than 24,000 after recovering from his battle with Goku? I refuse to believe that he gets these small little zenkai boosts and then all of a sudden his power increases over 10x from one. Same with Goku. He landed on Namek with a power level of 90,000. For Dragon Ball Wiki to be correct that would mean that after he recovered from Ginyu his power increased around 34 times what it was. Why didn't it increase that much from Vegeta? I don't think the power levels from Dragon Ball Wiki are accurate. They just don't make sense.
Did you read the sources in which they obtained that information? Among other sources, they used the official DB Daizenshuu guides, which means they are fairly accurate. Depending on which translation you go by, of course. That being said, most people have accepted that Goku was about 150 million while Frieza was 120 million. I mean, I suppose I was a bit premature by saying the numbers you listed were way off. I'm sure if you just tack a few zeros at the end of them then it would be more accurate.

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I get your point but logically explain to me how 2 warriors, who aren't a match for Buu at their most powerful which is SSJ3 and SSJ2 respectively going to fuse and then be more powerful then Buu in their weakest form? If the potara fusion was that strong then why didn't Kabito Kai get way stronger? Also, I don't think Vegito was that much more powerful then Buu. Sure he was stronger, but remember, when Buu got angry and started to rip holes in the dimension, Vegito struggled to break through his force field to stop him.
Because the portara fusion was said to be a much more powerful way of fusing. Gotenks was already fairly powerful when he fused. Possessing enough strength as a SSJ3 to at least match Super Buu. Between two children, who I will say are stronger than most of the Z fighters but are rather weak as individuals, that's pretty good. Now when you combine the two strongest fighters in the series(minus Gohan at that time) and with the added boost of the Portara, then it makes sense how strong Vegito was.

Vegito did struggle to break Buu's barrier, sure. That doesn't mean Buu was that strong. It just means Vegito had to exert a bit more strength than he was putting out in order to break it. He wasn't winded after, he wasn't short of breath, nothing. Vegito was far above Buu, the evidence is all there to support that.

Also Kabito Kai got more powerful sure, but individually, Kabito and the supreme Kai weren't all that powerful compared to Goku, Vegeta and even Gohan. They were most definitely weaker than even Dabura considering how worried they were of his presence. Even fused I doubt Kabito Kai could have even defeated fat Buu.
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Old 07-12-2015, 01:32 PM
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Smile DBZ Topic #2: How Strong Is Broly?

DBZ Topic #2: How Strong Is Broly?

Hi DBZ fans. I'm here with my second weekly DBZ topic. This week I want to discuss how strong Broly, the Legendary Super Saiyan really is.

First off, to judge how strong Broly is, we need to determine how strong his opponents were. The easiest way to that is to determine when in the DBZ timeline the events of Broly: the Legendary Super Saiyan could've possibly taken place. So let's look at who fought Broly. We have Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan, and Piccolo. Out of those 5 characters, the two most important for determining the time period would be Trunks and Gohan. Just by observing Trunks' and Gohan's appearance's we can tell what time period the story takes place in. Trunks has long hair. We know that he didn't have hair that long until he came out of the Room of Spirit and Time. So that instantly puts us around the Cell Saga as far as time goes. The most important fact to consider, however, is the fact that Gohan is a Super Saiyan but not yet a Super Saiyan 2. Judging by that evidence, we can determine that the events of Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan takes place sometime during the 10 day reprieve that Cell gave to the Z Fighters to prepare for the Cell Games.

Now that we know when the story takes place, we pretty much know how strong the Z Fighters were that faced Broly. Judging by how Broly faired against them, we can get a pretty good estimate on how strong Broly was. When Goku came out of the time chamber, he was able to fight with Cell on a level playing field. Cell ultimately proved to be a bit stronger than Goku, however, Goku was definitely able to damage Cell. Well Goku couldn't damage Broly at all. As a matter of fact, a full power Kamehameha to Broly's face didn't even do any damage. That same attack blew off half of Cell's body. None of the other Z Fighters could harm Broly either. It was only when Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan, and Piccolo channeled all of their power through Goku was he able to harm Broly. So what I've done is added together the power levels of Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan, and Piccolo from the Cell Games Saga to get a rough estimate of Broly's power level. That means that Broly's power level as a Legendary Super Saiyan is roughly around 495,000,000! Which means that Broly was stronger than Super Perfect Cell, SSJ2 Gohan, SSJ2 Goku, Majin Vegeta, and even Majin Buu. That's amazing when you stop and think about it.

So what do you guys think? Do you think Broly was that powerful or do you think that I'm way off? Tell me what your opinions are.
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Old 07-12-2015, 01:56 PM
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It's not difficult. His transformation was depicted as actually making him stronger and stronger as time passed as opposed to the regular Super Saiyan's who got exhausted. Over time, he would eventually eclipse the strength of anyone if he was around long enough. His defeats were all also unique, requiring the assistance of natural phenomenons. The giant meteor in the first one, a distraction and the sun (sharing that with Cooler) and acid. Aside from Cooler, all other movie villains are dispatched with brute force alone.
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