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View Poll Results: All Time WWF/E Superstar
Hulk Hogan 18 38.30%
Ric Flair 1 2.13%
Randy Savage 0 0%
Bret Hart 4 8.51%
Shawn Michaels 7 14.89%
Undertaker 2 4.26%
John Cena 5 10.64%
Bruno Sammartino 2 4.26%
Steve Austin 6 12.77%
Triple H 2 4.26%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #11  
Old 12-11-2008, 04:26 PM
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I gotta give my vote for the Undertaker here. He has been relevant his entire WWE career. That's 18 years of playing a character gimmick. I can't think of another wrestler who has worked with a cartoonish gimmick even half that long and made it stick. He has had numerous title reigns and, of course, there is the famous Wrestlemania win streak. Oh yeah, and I love him.
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  #12  
Old 12-11-2008, 06:34 PM
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I know this wont sway anything but I think The Rock deserves an honourable mention, his 6 year career in WWE has completely blown HHH's 15 out of the water. The man went on to beat Hogan and was easily Austin's replacement to keep ratings high in WWE. Still it doesnt matter because. . . . .

. . . . It would still be Hogan, it will always be Hogan, no one will ever better him because it's become impossible to do what he has done, had some of the best matches ever and started 2 booms in the wrestling business, not to mention how long and often he held the World title.

If Mark Madden think's that only a mark judges some one's greatness because of their title history then you'll just have to call me El_Marko.
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  #13  
Old 12-11-2008, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Miko View Post
I know this wont sway anything but I think The Rock deserves an honourable mention, his 6 year career in WWE has completely blown HHH's 15 out of the water. The man went on to beat Hogan and was easily Austin's replacement to keep ratings high in WWE. .
Oh brother.


I'm not one to love on Trips, but that is a pretty poor argument for why the Rock's career was better than Triple H's. Let's look at this:


Quote:
The man went on to beat Hogan and was easily Austin's replacement to keep ratings high in WWE.
Is Billy Kidman better than Triple H, also?

Quote:
was easily Austin's replacement to keep ratings high in WWE
How do you figure? If I'm not mistaken, I do believe that the focal point of the shows in late 99 early 2000 featured the McMahon-Helmsley Regime, casting against it a hodgepodge of face characters, one of which was the Rock. Main roles were occupied by Foley, The Rock, and Jericho, but there was never any long, drawn-out storyline that was centered around The Rock. Not even close to the kind of storylines that were being created for Austin for almost two years.

Furthermore, The Rock was privileged to be a charismatic, athletic figure riding the coattails of the most popular figure in the history of the business. Of course the guy was going to be over. But we'll never really know how good The Rock could have been in comparison to the Hogans or the Flairs because he left so quickly. The Rock was only "the man," so to speak, during one era. Trips was the top heel in the company during its most popular run, and since, he's been the one or two in terms of carrying the company, during times where the wrestling business has been significantly down.

Sure, Rocky is good, but his six years compared to Trips' 15?
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  #14  
Old 12-12-2008, 01:05 AM
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I gotta go with Hogan, he's the slam dunk answer in my books. I dont have alot to add thats already been said but Ill attempt to. If you did a survey and asked everybody in this country to name a wrestler I guarantee a vast majority of them would say Hogan especially non wrestling fans. Hell the guy even had his own cartoon series in the 80s. Everybody knows who Hogan is whether they watched a minute of wrestling in their lives or not. I think that alone is enough to warrant this award but there is more to it than that.

He headlined the first 9 Wrestlemania's(well technically he didnt number 9 but he did end up winning the title at the end). I believe he won every won of those as well with the exception of WM6 and the DQ in WM8. He also was the winner of the most famous match of all time. Im not positive about this but Id imagine if you added up all his world title reigns he probably held the title for more days than anybody in WWF/E history, I think the only person that would be close would be Sammartino. Then to top it off he returned to the WWE a decade later and put on the biggest match of the year in 02 at Wrestlemania. Im not even including what he did in WCW either since I figure this was only what people did in WWE if you add that to it his resume is even more impressive. You add up all his accolades plus how famous he is I really dont know how it can be anybody else.
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  #15  
Old 12-12-2008, 05:21 AM
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Well, the obvious answer is Hulk Hogan. Or Steve Austin. Those are really the only two.

But I'll go for The Rock. Now here's a man that put on very few classic matches. Admittedly, I enjoyed pretty much all of them at the time and blah, blah, psychology, blah, blah, workrate, blah, blah pay-per-view buys. But he was still Stone Cold Steve Austin's no. 2 and carried the company on his back for extended periods. I think that The Rock is Austin's equal in more ways than one, and that's always overlooked.

Of course, that theory falls apart when you consider that Rock/Hogan was just a poor substitute for Austin/Hogan.
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  #16  
Old 12-12-2008, 08:44 AM
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Hulk Hogan.

Simple as that. He shaped professional wrestling. He is arguably the biggest babyface in the history of pro wrestling. No other wrestler has accomplished what Hogan did. When I ask a person that used to watch wrestling in the 80's, something that's related to wrestling, usually the first thing they ask me is "Is Hogan still there?".

He basically put wrestling on the map and is part of the reason why it was so successful, and why it still is today. Hogan slamming Andre the Giant is probably the most remembered moment in Wrestling history. He was a terrific performer, both in the ring and on the mic. He was the complete package. He drew and had multiple World Title reings. It's quite hard to describe how great Hogan really was.

Austin would be my second choice, but I think there's a large gap between Austin and Hogan in terms of the All Time Best Superstar.
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  #17  
Old 12-12-2008, 10:21 AM
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Oh brother.


I'm not one to love on Trips, but that is a pretty poor argument for why the Rock's career was better than Triple H's. Let's look at this:
I think HHH is great but a very distant third place behind Austin and Rock.

Quote:
Is Billy Kidman better than Triple H, also?
Fair enough, I'll refrase that. Hogan passed the torch to The Rock.

Quote:
How do you figure? If I'm not mistaken, I do believe that the focal point of the shows in late 99 early 2000 featured the McMahon-Helmsley Regime, casting against it a hodgepodge of face characters, one of which was the Rock. Main roles were occupied by Foley, The Rock, and Jericho, but there was never any long, drawn-out storyline that was centered around The Rock. Not even close to the kind of storylines that were being created for Austin for almost two years.
McMahon-Helmsley had their roles to play no doubt about it, but the focus of the show's was The Rock, even when HHH was fueding with Foley The Rock was getting the same if not more air-time everyweek.

Quote:
Furthermore, The Rock was privileged to be a charismatic, athletic figure riding the coattails of the most popular figure in the history of the business. Of course the guy was going to be over.
The Rock became Austin's top heel challenger and became so popular in the process that he took over from Austin as the top face. Austin turned heel and demoted HHH to third place. . . . . again.

Quote:
But we'll never really know how good The Rock could have been in comparison to the Hogans or the Flairs because he left so quickly. The Rock was only "the man," so to speak, during one era. Trips was the top heel in the company during its most popular run, and since, he's been the one or two in terms of carrying the company, during times where the wrestling business has been significantly down.
Like I said, HHH was only ever top heel when Rock and Austin were playing babyface, whenever one of them was the heel HHH was again a distant third place. In face he was third when both guy's were faces, hence WM17 Main-Event: The Rock vs Stone Cold Steve Austin.

I would say HHH has only ever been top-dog in the company when Hollywood came knocking for The Rock all the way up until John Cena FU'd JBL at WM21. Then HHH went back to arguably third place behind Cena and Batista.

Quote:
Sure, Rocky is good, but his six years compared to Trips' 15?
Sure I'd take The Rock's 6 years and 9 World Titles over HHH's 15. At worst he was just behind Stone Cold and at best he was better. HHH is nothing short of impressive and he does have longevity in his favour I'll accept that but I dont think he can compete with The Rock.
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  #18  
Old 12-12-2008, 10:31 AM
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To win the All-Time Superstar, you have to be someone who will be remembered for all times. That excludes Randy Savage, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, John Cena (for now at least), and Triple H. Leaving us with really only Hogan, Austin, and Bruno.

Of those three, I take out Bruno, as I think most would agree he didn't have the national and worldwide impact on wrestling that Austin and Hogan did. Huge draw in his own right, just not at the right time.

So, that leaves us the classic debate between Austin and Hogan, and it has to be Hogan, for the simple fact that his work had a tremendous influence on Austin being so successful. Hogan was the one who put the WWF in national spotlight. Hogan was the one who was what made the WWF merchandising machine come to life. Hell, Hogan in WCW was the one who really started that Attitude that the WWF copied and gave to Steve Austin.

So, I think the answer has to be Hogan.


By the way, I have to ask...how can anyone vote HBK ahead of Hart, or Hart ahead of HBK? That makes no sense. They are two halves of the same coin...in a variety of ways. I think it'd be foolish to try and justify one over the other in a situation such as this, especially when there are better options.
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  #19  
Old 12-12-2008, 11:18 AM
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I just realized that I was about to start a HUGE war with Sly, picking the one man he never even mentioned in his last post - Ric Flair - as the award winner and greatest ever. But then I realized that by doing so, I'd be shattering my own criteria.

This award is WWF-centric. That's why Thesz isn't on the list, or Bockwinkle, etc. To give Flair a run as the Greatest Ever would be to include his NWA and WCW work, which I cannot do, since the Slammy is a WWF Award.

And because of that, Austin is the right choice.

In order to truly do this award justice, in all fairness, you have to throw out what Hogan did in WCW and with the creation of the nWo. That being said, the list is: 1) Austin, 1b) Hogan, 2) Undertaker, 3) Michaels, 4) Rock. Whom I left off the list. Oh well, deal.

I took Austin over Hogan for a few reasons. For starters, Austin led a boom period during a time of heightened competition from WCW. Part of what made Hogan's run so great was that it was unique at the time - the idea of Pay Per View pro wrestling was a stroke of McMahon genius, and Hogan benefited from it as much as he HELPED to cause it.

Austin also did what he did after the kayfabe wall had been broken. Hogan benefitted from the fact that kids still thought wrestling was real, and they reacted as such. That's why they cried when Earthquake attacked him, why they sent him thousands of cards in the "hospital." Austin had to find a way to make people care about his character despite being fully aware that it was all scripted and kayfabe. Austin had to do a better job of holding on to the "Willing Suspension of Disbelief."

Austin also did what he did with increased presence. Meaning, 1-2 TV shows per week and a pay per view each month was a challenge, because it's easier to run out of fresh ideas. Hogan did 4 PPV's per year, and rarely appeared on any TV program other than the Monday Night Prime Time show, and an OCCASSIONAL stint on Superstars in a tag match. And even that was a miracle. He also did SNME, but that was a couple shoots per year. People MISSED seeing Hogan in the ring, because it was an event. With Austin, it became expected, and he had to struggle to keep it all fresh.

That's all for this installment. I await responses before I continue.
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  #20  
Old 12-12-2008, 12:52 PM
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Austin is a good choice and would probably be my second one but I think what seperates Hogan from him is his overall fame and his longevity. He was the face of the organization and top guy for the better part of a decade. He was always the focal point of the company and was the guy in pretty much every major feud. He was in the main event basically the entire time and if he wasnt he was damn near the top and was still the guy that they promoted the most. Austin was the top guy from 98-01 and he missed some time due to injury in 00. In 02 and beyond he took a back seat to other guys, I dont believe he won the championship at any point after 01 but I could be wrong about that since I didnt watch a whole lot of wrestling in 02. So he was the main guy for four years where as Hogan was the main guy for roughly 10 years. Then he came back 10 years later and main evented shows and even won the belt. I think those things are the biggest difference between the two along with overall fame. Do you think Austin could have a show on VH1 about him and his family and have it last for 3 or 4 seasons, or have his own celebrity wrestling show? Possibly he could but I honestly dont think so.
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