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  #1  
Old 10-09-2014, 06:19 AM
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Default Why all the hate on the Finger Poke Of Doom?

Pardon my confusion here, but I've never seen why there is this huge disgust for the FPoD. The first time I saw someone mention it, I went and watched it and if anything I thought it was hilarious and a great spot for a heel tag team. But people on here hate on it so hardcore and I don't get why exactly.

I get that Nash ended Goldbergs undefeated streak to win the belt(which is stupid for a guy who's already a main eventer but whatever)

I get there was 2 branches of the NWO, 1 Nash's and 1 Hogan's(which kinda makes sense being as most everyone joined the NWO)

I get Hogan was old(but this obviously wasn't an issue as in what 2002 WWE put the undisputed belt on Hogan)


So why all the hate for this segment? Especially over some other WCW failures which in my eyes are a lot worse.

P.S. I wasn't watching around the Attitude Era so you might have to give me some additional context when you explain it
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2014, 08:19 AM
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It's simple bigotry and nothing more. The same people who hate the finger poke of doom also have no problem when WWE did the exact same spot with Shawn Michaels and Triple H. Oh, and let's not forget money in the bank which is the same thing; one guy pins the champ with no match just to change the title for the sake of it. Yet these guys love MITB. It all has to to with the fact that FPoD happened in WCW. If it had happened in WWE it would be seen as genius as it was the last great serve in wrestling. In an era where the internet was spoiling pro wrestling and giving out secrets and leaks, WCW managed to pull this swerve that NO ONE saw coming. It was great.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2014, 08:22 AM
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It's because WCW didn't win the Monday Night War, that's why there's so much hate. I don't know how true the scuttlebutt was, but supposedly the Fingerpoke Of Doom was set up to get Goldberg his redemption after losing to Nash at Starrcade '98. Goldberg was going to take out nWo member after nWo member until only Hogan was left standing. Again, this is what I heard, I can't confirm or deny it because I wasn't a part of WCW's creative team nor was I backstage to really know the story, unlike other members of our IWC ilk that act as if everything they read is fact and they're getting their information first hand.

I digress though, for one reason or another Goldberg didn't do that, I don't know what affected things to have Flair end up being the one to take the strap from Hogan and get storyline presidency. I didn't mind that as much because to be honest Flair was overdue for another heel turn, since he's just better at it, and he was also owed in my opinion a World Title win over Hogan. Since he didn't get one during their 1994 feud.

The way I see it, wrestling has done so many worse things...in WCW's case, you had Arquette and Russo winning the World Title the next year. That surpasses Hogan and Nash's fingerpoke of doom controversy, which to me I thought was HILARIOUS. Sorry if I offend anyone, actually no I am not. If you're an unabashed hater on everything WCW and cite all their negatives instead of their positives while praising WWE as doing no wrong, then I could give two shits about offending fans who have such a close minded perspective. The fingerpoke of doom equals comedy at its best.

And WWF/E has done some pretty asinine shit too, I mean Katie Vick plain and simply put was the WORST idea I ever saw between WWF/E and WCW. I mean seriously Triple H dressed as Kane having simulated sex with a dummy passing itself off as a corpse? I mean seriously, necrophelia? If WCW had done that, we'd never have heard the end of it.

If it was WWE that did the fingerpoke of doom, it would just be one of those moments WWE would laugh at itself over, and us IWC folks who are WCW bashers would overlook it. But because WCW was eventually absorbed by the then-WWF, and the angle didn't go the direction that a lot of fans may have wanted, it gets a lot of unnecessary hate, especially when WWE for years has done some rather quesitonable shit.

Ratings for WCW didn't just go down the toilet like people seem to want to say once the Fingerpoke happened, in fact ratings for episodes like the FPOD segment and onward are a lot better than some of the viewership WWE is pulling in these days.

Oh I could go on, and I look forward to other replies from any WCW bashers, yes I get they were far from perfect, but WWE while I give them credit for the lasting power they have, they've pulled many a disservice to their fans, and with being the only game in town they can afford to do so.
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2014, 08:51 AM
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I personally think it was great. A big gripe about it, is the fact that it was Nash that ended the streak. The thing is, Goldberg had ran through everyone on the roster already. There wasn't going to be some up and comer rising out of the mid card to beat him, because he decimated anyone who was mid card. At the time the Wolfpack were the biggest faces in WCW and their leader was Nash. Therefore, Nash was essentially the top face other than Goldberg. People complain about how the match was one with Scott Hall using the stun gun. How else do you beat a guy who is booked to be unstoppable and doesn't feel pain? Then it added that element of drama because Hall and Nash were best friends, but Hall was from the rival faction and turning his back on the black and white. It created a lot of drama and speculation for the following Nitro.

The finger poke of doom itself was also great. Think about how it would have gone down if a legit match took place. Okay, let's say Nash goes over or retains. Fans will still be pissed that Goldberg got screwed and it would case heat for Nash. You don't want to have that much heat on one of your top faces like that. Then there would have had to be a rematch. To protect what Goldberg was at the time, it would likely had to have been a dirty finish, which is still bad for Nash, or Goldberg would regain the title. If Goldberg wins it back from Nash, everything is just the same as it was with the exception of Goldberg having that blemish on his record. The NWOs would be feuding with each other still, only with a little bit of tarnish on the face faction. Now let's back up and say that Hogan won the match against Nash. This would essentially put things back to the way things were before Goldberg won the title. Hogan as champ feuding with Goldberg and Nash. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, because that worked well for them, but if they were gonna go that route it would look bad on Nash. The guy just did the unthinkable, by beating Goldberg, and then loses the next night? So no we go back to the finger poking. This was a great way to reunite the two NWOs. Nash Hogan and Hall all founded the NWO and were the baddest guys on the roster. It would make sense for these guys to revert back to being these bad guys. It was great for me as an NWO fan because it added strength to my favorite stable and eliminated their biggest rival. It also worked well for Goldberg because the NWOs weren't feuding with each other so they were able to attack him, cuff hime, taze him, paint him, etc without the ther faction running in for the save. This meant Goldberg would look strong because the only reason he was getting beaten and not winning his belt back was because the two factions were doing a number on him.

Another aspect, that I don't think people think about is merchandise. Not just new merchandise for the new colors, but also old merch getting sold as well. In those days fans were pretty loyal to whichever side they chose. Me being an NWO black and white fan, I hated the Wolfpack. When I played Revenge on N64, I used to always beat up Wolfpack members, Goldberg and DDP because they were the biggest foes of my team. You would never catch me wearing the red and black NWO colors. I'm sure some of the die hard Wolfpack fans were like that as well. After the finger poke however, I had all kinds of Wolfpack clothing. I could wear a different NWO shirt to school each day of the week because there was so much variety whereas previously I just had the originial shirt. New action figures were made showing black and white members in red and black as well.

So to recap, the whole situation created drama and speculation, protected Goldberg, protected Nash, gave us a revamped stable and helped merch sales.
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2014, 08:52 AM
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Wow, "simple bigotry", can we not use such strong words for something as stupid as this, its like when people say "my eyes have been raped" or something similar, those words should not be thrown around lightly.

Besides that, most of the hate comes from people who loved WcW, because it was stupid plain and simple. It was completely different from the spot with DX in that DX was new at the time, HHH and HBK were actually friends at the time, so it made sense. Plus, this wasn't for the WORLD TITLE, it was for the Euro Title. WHYTF would NASH lay down for that, what was the point, the World Title is the pinnacle of your sport, why would you give it away? On top of that he gave it away to the guy he had spent the past year cutting vicious promos on.

To compare it to MITB is also idiotic, because again, no one is laying down and GIVING THE WORLD TITLE AWAY. No one in their right mind would ever give the pinnacle of their sport away, it should be treated like the ring in the LOTR movies, you will die to keep it.

The FPOD caused the nWo to get back together when everyone was already over it. Nash had been cutting scathing promos on Hogan for the better part of a year, people didn't really want to see them get back together. The other part that hurt it was that it came so soon after another move that left a bad taste in the fans mouths, Nash beating Goldberg's streak. People were already pissed about that, then they compound the issue by having the guy that broke the streak lay down for the guy that Goldberg beat to get the title, basically resetting everything. They should've simply kept the belt on Goldberg.

Now I wouldn't say this was the beginning of the end for WcW, I would say it was the third strike, first being Sting not winning clean in dominant form against Hogan and then having a solid run, 2nd being Goldberg losing to Nash, and this being third. All the really bad stuff that came after this to me really didn't matter, by the time the FPOD had happened I had started shifting to WWE. Its not like there are any wrestlers defending the stupidity of this angle, it is almost universally panned for a reason.

But the main point about this, and the part that doesn't compare to anything the WWE has ever done is that someone laid down and gave the WORLD TITLE away, the pinnacle of the sport to reform a faction with someone they had professed to hate because they wanted the title all to themselves. Didn't make a lick of sense, and of course nothing ever came from it. Compare it to Katie Vick all you want, yes that was an AWFUL angle, but it was also a one night thing with no real long lasting effect.
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2014, 09:42 AM
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Yeah, the comparison to MitB is asinine. There is a match in that case, and there's a logical reason for why the match is so short...but that's not my issue with the Fingerpoke of Dumbassery.

It was for the World Title! The supposed reason that every wrestler ever gets into wrestling...to be the champion! It wasn't the WWF Hardcore Comedy title, and it wasn't for the WWF Light Heavyweight European Only Defended on a Friday Belt.

Why should I as a fan give a shit about any title match ever again if you tell me your belt isn't even worth fighting over? If Kevin Nash can't be bothered to care, why should I?

And as for whether they won the Monday Night Wars is irrelevant. I checked out largely BECAUSE of that (and thankfully missed the David Arquette nonsense. THAT made me laugh because by that point WCW was laughable on the whole.)

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  #7  
Old 10-09-2014, 09:42 AM
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"The thing is, Goldberg had ran through everyone on the roster already. There wasn't going to be some up and comer rising out of the mid card to beat him, because he decimated anyone who was mid card."

Hogan domnated the scene for the better part of two years, you're telling me Goldberg could only do it for 6 months? At this point he hadn't faced the Macho Man, they brought Sid in the next year, Big Poppa Pump and Booker T rose through the ranks, yes there were plenty of opponents for him to face. The fans wanted to see more Goldberg.

"Think about how it would have gone down if a legit match took place. Okay, let's say Nash goes over or retains. Fans will still be pissed that Goldberg got screwed and it would case heat for Nash. You don't want to have that much heat on one of your top faces like that. Then there would have had to be a rematch. To protect what Goldberg was at the time, it would likely had to have been a dirty finish, which is still bad for Nash, or Goldberg would regain the title. If Goldberg wins it back from Nash, everything is just the same as it was with the exception of Goldberg having that blemish on his record"

Then they should've kept the belt on Goldberg.

"Now let's back up and say that Hogan won the match against Nash. This would essentially put things back to the way things were before Goldberg won the title. Hogan as champ feuding with Goldberg and Nash. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, because that worked well for them, but if they were gonna go that route it would look bad on Nash. The guy just did the unthinkable, by beating Goldberg, and then loses the next night?"

So instead they reset to how it was before the nWo split? How about you don't reset at all and let your top face rule the roost?

"It also worked well for Goldberg because the NWOs weren't feuding with each other so they were able to attack him, cuff hime, taze him, paint him, etc without the ther faction running in for the save. This meant Goldberg would look strong because the only reason he was getting beaten and not winning his belt back was because the two factions were doing a number on him."

Goldberg was never the same after this, how was it successful? He never looked strong again(at least as strong as he once did), and it doesn't matter how may people beat him down, Goldberg used to routinely take out the entire nWo, now he's helpless against them? They did the same dumb shit with Sting. In 97 Sting could take on the entire nWo single-handedly, then you fast forward a year and he's getting manhandled by like 3 nWo guys, killed that character the same way it hurt Goldbergs.
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:44 AM
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I'm pretty sure the ratings actually picked back up for WCW after this angle with the reformed nWo.

Then it all fell apart.

The only problem I have with the fingerpoke of doom was that the Nash/Hogan reconciliation didn't seem believable, and sure enough, before the year was out (August) they were already "mortal enemies" again.

They didn't give us any reason to BELIEVE that Nash would want to reform the nWo. The initial moment was a big swerve, but the whole "we've just been playing around for the last year" mentality was really lame.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toroc102 View Post
Wow, "simple bigotry", can we not use such strong words for something as stupid as this, its like when people say "my eyes have been raped" or something similar, those words should not be thrown around lightly.

Besides that, most of the hate comes from people who loved WcW, because it was stupid plain and simple. It was completely different from the spot with DX in that DX was new at the time, HHH and HBK were actually friends at the time, so it made sense. Plus, this wasn't for the WORLD TITLE, it was for the Euro Title. WHYTF would NASH lay down for that, what was the point, the World Title is the pinnacle of your sport, why would you give it away? On top of that he gave it away to the guy he had spent the past year cutting vicious promos on.

To compare it to MITB is also idiotic, because again, no one is laying down and GIVING THE WORLD TITLE AWAY. No one in their right mind would ever give the pinnacle of their sport away, it should be treated like the ring in the LOTR movies, you will die to keep it.

The FPOD caused the nWo to get back together when everyone was already over it. Nash had been cutting scathing promos on Hogan for the better part of a year, people didn't really want to see them get back together. The other part that hurt it was that it came so soon after another move that left a bad taste in the fans mouths, Nash beating Goldberg's streak. People were already pissed about that, then they compound the issue by having the guy that broke the streak lay down for the guy that Goldberg beat to get the title, basically resetting everything. They should've simply kept the belt on Goldberg.

Now I wouldn't say this was the beginning of the end for WcW, I would say it was the third strike, first being Sting not winning clean in dominant form against Hogan and then having a solid run, 2nd being Goldberg losing to Nash, and this being third. All the really bad stuff that came after this to me really didn't matter, by the time the FPOD had happened I had started shifting to WWE. Its not like there are any wrestlers defending the stupidity of this angle, it is almost universally panned for a reason.

But the main point about this, and the part that doesn't compare to anything the WWE has ever done is that someone laid down and gave the WORLD TITLE away, the pinnacle of the sport to reform a faction with someone they had professed to hate because they wanted the title all to themselves. Didn't make a lick of sense, and of course nothing ever came from it. Compare it to Katie Vick all you want, yes that was an AWFUL angle, but it was also a one night thing with no real long lasting effect.

First, WWE did something very similar n 1988 when Andre cheated, bribing the ref to quick count Hogan and steal the title only to sell it to Ted DiBiase.

You have to look at where WCW was in early 99/late 98. The NWO roster split was a failure, largely because the infusion of WCW guys made the Red & Black basically not the NWO and the Black & White was almost entirely mid carders and jobbers, with the exception of Scott Hall (who missed a lot of time due to his many drug problems) and Hogan, who worked a semi part time schedule. Add the fact that for most of the fall into Dec 98 and Starrcade you had no Lex Luger or Brett Hart and then Sting was injured. The fact that WCW was still neck & neck with WWE and Starrcade 98 was the success it was is nearly a miracle.

WCW had no strong heel presence at the start of 99. Nash had clearly been a face most of 98, and was booked as a face heading into Starrcade. Even the Title switch was done in a way that made it look like Nash was not responsible for the interference that won him the title. Every successful company needs a strong heel/heel faction, as the constant opposing force to who ever the top heroes are. WWE had McMahon & His Corporation as well as DX during the late 90s, in the 80s WWE had The Bobby Heenan Family (with it’s rotating membership but clearly stated goal of destroying Hulk Hogan) and the NWA had The Horsemen and The Midnight Express. No one wants to pay to see the hero unless he is facing a legit threat from a tough heel. WCW had no main event level heel/faction with the basic destruction of the original NWO and needed one badly.

Nash was a great choice to end the Streak. Who else was left ? Goldberg already beat Big Show, Sting, & DDP, as well as Hogan (although their was money in a re match later). Nash had a similar undefeated streak with his year long run as WWE Champ. Other than Flair and Hart who was left to end The Streak ? CERTAINLY you don’t waste ending Goldberg’s streak on some midcarder or up and comer, NO WAY the audience believes one of those guys beats the un-beatable Monster. You can believe Nash, Flair, Hogan, Hart, Sting ending the streak, no way Goldberg runs though those guys and loses to Jericho, Benoit, Malenko, etc. The storyline for the Starrcade match, which worked a lot of the history of Nash WWE Title reign, was very well done. The Streak was old, WCW needed something new, they were running out of worthy contenders, it was a good time to end it.

The Finger Poke itself was a brilliant move. 1) Totally un-expected, this was a turn no one saw coming 2) Brings back Hogan and makes him relevant again – he was clearly the most hated character in WCW and the one guy wrestling fans in general and WCW fans in particular wanted to see lose 3) Re-Establishes the NWO as a major heel faction, completely unscrupulous, underhanded, lying cheating scoundrels. The “purging” of the non essential members right after was also brilliant, the group very quickly turned into a lean, mean, fighting machine, like they were in their heyday 96-mid 97. It also made them look more heartless and cold, always a good thing for villains. 4) It wasn’t a re-tread of the NWO angle because there was one major difference, the group no longer controlled WCW. For much of 96-98 having NWO leader Eric Bischoff also in charge of the WCW allowed the group un limited protections, changing match decisions, altering booking plans to protect the guys in the ring, he was the ultimate and the original “Bad Boss/Evil CEO” . However, by early 99 EZ E was out of power, noted Hogan nemesis, avowed NWO opponent, and WCW loyalist Ric Flair was in charge of the company. Giving the NWO back the World Title gave some sway but they now had to contend with a WCW boss who no longer protected them, in fact, he was dedicated to destroying them, giving WCW in general and opponents like Goldberg & Sting a powerful ally they didn’t have before. The group was back, the company had a cohesive evil heel faction everyone hated, but they weren’t in power, now they were in chase mode, trying to reclaim the kingdom and protect their only asset (World Title).

The fact the WCW twice topped the 5.0 mark in the ratings despite airing head to head vs RAW in Feb 99 (after the FP of Doom) shows the audience was tuned in and interested in the new dynamic.

WCW should have had Goldberg run through the group, with Flair doing what he could to force the NWO to face him as they tried like cowards to avoid him. I would have drawn out the rematch between GB & Nash one on one until the summer, probably Great AM Bash time, with the idea that if GB beats Nash he gets his title shot vs Hogan, if he loses Bischoff gets back control of WCW. Have GB win but suffer a brutal beatdown that leaves him MIA until October (in time for Halloween Havoc, one of the biggest shows every year WCW did). Have GB win the title at HH.

Certainly it seemed like WCW was moving in a related direction but they tanked everything with three huge audience killing moves post FP of Doom…..1) Having Flair job AGAIN to Hogan – They set up a huge match at SuperBrawl and WCW fans were dying for Flair to win – I get that these two were big money and the SB PPV did very well in 99, but fans weren’t interested in seeing Flair screwed over again, remember WCW fans disliked Hogan because he was from the “other company” and Flair was “our guy”. Flair was extremely over at this point, and WCW still had no Hart, Luger, or Sting back yet, but having Hogan screw him over AGAIN with the major set up they did for this match didn’t please the audience 2) The Double Turn – Fans were interested in the re formed NWO, they were invested in Flair and hated Hogan, the infamous Double Turn may have been one of the worst decisions WCW made during this time. The crowd at the PPV hated it, it was maybe the most dead crowd Ive ever seen for PPV main event, the biggest pop of the night coming when Flair won the title (despite cheating). This also weakened the whole NWO dynamic, after investing so much time re-inventing them WCW basically tanked them for no reason when they were hot and drawing money 3) Hogan left right after the Double Turn – All that effort to bring him back and re form the NWO as a mega heel power group and not only does Hogan turn face inexplicably mid story but then he leaves for several months right after. What’s the purpose of the Double Turn if Hogan is leaving ? If WCW wanted to give Flair the title it would have made more sense for him to beat Hogan clean, then slowly turn heel to protect his belt, becoming a tweener, with Goldberg on the clear face side and the remnants of the NWO on the clear heel side. Have the NWO turn on Hogan and dump him because he lost, have Goldberg still run through the NWO, have him beat Flair for the belt, and have Hogan come back, feud with the NWO, then set up a face Hogan-Face GB match for the belt. Either that or have GB beat Hogan clean since he is leaving, have the NWO turn on him so he can return a face later in the year, have GB battle the Nash lead group through the summer with some tension between him & Flair over title shots. Doing the Double Turn that no one wanted, then disbanding the NWO so soon after working so hard to re establish them, then having Hogan leave right after…..that made no sense.

Ive always said the FP of Doom was brilliant, it set up WCW for some great potential storyline (at a time when Sting, Hart, & Luger were MIA, potential only improves when they start returning and getting involved), but WCW so clearly fumbled it all away it’s almost amazing. The audience didnt buy it either, there was a huge drop in ratings post Double Turn and they never recovered, declining slightly through out the year before bottoming out at year’s end when Russo came in.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:36 AM
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I remember watching it and thinking, "well that was disappointing and really made no sense."

It was too big off a swerve at the wrong time. People were pissed about Goldberg. Nash reuniting with Hogan had no basis. Someone like Nash seemed to be doing better as his own man.

But mostly imagine if you are promised a huge main event and get nothing in return for no good reason other than to make you feel stupid. Watching it now as part of a monthly package, knowing it is going to happen, with the ability to fast forward and jump to next week's show in less than a minute is a lot different than sitting there for two hours, get screwed, and have to wait a week for the story to continue. It gives you too much time to feel like an asshole and get more angry.
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GSB Observation #8675309 - I've never seen Samoa Joe and Manny from Modern Family in the same room at the same time, coincidence?
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