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View Poll Results: The best WRESTLER of all time
Kurt Angle 27 55.10%
Bret Hart 8 16.33%
Ric Flair 3 6.12%
Frank Gotch 1 2.04%
Buddy Rodgers 0 0%
George Tragos 0 0%
Lou Thesz 5 10.20%
Other 5 10.20%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #1  
Old 10-19-2012, 02:29 PM
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Default The best as a WRESTLER.

I recently read a thread about who has the best TNA mic skills. Now things like mic skills, gimmick and charisma are what wrestlers today have. There is also in ring performance which includes things like wrestling, moments, high spots, getting the crowd pumped up etc. But the main factor in there is WRESTLING.

Now who is the best WRESTLER of all time. By wrestling, I mean wrestling itself. The best today is Kurt Angle but of all time...? Angle, Bret, Flair, Thesz, Rodgers, Frank Gotch, George Thragos? Which one? It doesn't even have to be one of these guys.

The reason I am asking is because today, fans want the other things I mentioned above, but looking at the main thing a Superstar needs, Wrestling, who is the best of all time?

If you vote, please post why you voted that person.

Discuss....
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2012, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamangle View Post
By wrestling, I mean wrestling itself.
That statement invites different interpretations of what "wrestling itself" is.

I've seen the first three guys and could make a case for any of them as "best wrestler." Angle is probably the best at move-for-move technical excellence. Flair might be the best wrestler as an entertainer; a guy who excited a lot of people with his ring work and personality. Bret Hart could be considered the best for grind-it-out, tough guy ring wrestling, plus generating tons of excitement with the feuds he was involved with.

The other four are hard to rate since none of us has ever seen them in the ring. Is it possible they were better wrestlers than any of the modern three? Sure.

Going by my own definition of "best," I picked Bret.
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang Sally View Post
That statement invites different interpretations of what "wrestling itself" is.

I've seen the first three guys and could make a case for any of them as "best wrestler." Angle is probably the best at move-for-move technical excellence. Flair might be the best wrestler as an entertainer; a guy who excited a lot of people with his ring work and personality. Bret Hart could be considered the best for grind-it-out, tough guy ring wrestling, plus generating tons of excitement with the feuds he was involved with.

The other four are hard to rate since none of us has ever seen them in the ring. Is it possible they were better wrestlers than any of the modern three? Sure.

Going by my own definition of "best," I picked Bret.

Fair enough but "flair best wrestler as an ENTERTAINER" and "hart as a tough guy and exiting in the feuds he was in" count as in ring performance as a whole.
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang Sally View Post
That statement invites different interpretations of what "wrestling itself" is.

I've seen the first three guys and could make a case for any of them as "best wrestler." Angle is probably the best at move-for-move technical excellence. Flair might be the best wrestler as an entertainer; a guy who excited a lot of people with his ring work and personality. Bret Hart could be considered the best for grind-it-out, tough guy ring wrestling, plus generating tons of excitement with the feuds he was involved with.

The other four are hard to rate since none of us has ever seen them in the ring. Is it possible they were better wrestlers than any of the modern three? Sure.

Going by my own definition of "best," I picked Bret.
A bit biased here but....I'm going with Bret Hart. Sure Angle is an Olympic Gold medalist, but if we are talking about pro wrestling, I have to agree with Sally. Bret was as crafty as they come. He always knew how to win against all odds. When Diesel was too big and strong, Bret played "possum", faked his fatigue and beat Big Daddy Cool with a small package. When Stone Cold proved too rough and rugged, Bret toughed it out and beat him at his own game. He out wrestled Mr. Perfect, he showed he can handle the speed of the 1-2-3 Kid in a classic title match. Basically, in any situation, Bret adapted and prevailed.

Like Mustang Sally said, no one ever saw Gotch, Thez or Rogers or any other wrestler from the Roosevelt Administration era.

I always held Bret to high regard. Outside of Owen Hart (who was more fluid and a graceful high flyer), Bret was who he claimed to be, The Best There Is Was and Ever Will Be...
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asiatic7 View Post
A bit biased here but....I'm going with Bret Hart. Sure Angle is an Olympic Gold medalist, but if we are talking about pro wrestling, I have to agree with Sally. Bret was as crafty as they come. He always knew how to win against all odds. When Diesel was too big and strong, Bret played "possum", faked his fatigue and beat Big Daddy Cool with a small package. When Stone Cold proved too rough and rugged, Bret toughed it out and beat him at his own game. He out wrestled Mr. Perfect, he showed he can handle the speed of the 1-2-3 Kid in a classic title match. Basically, in any situation, Bret adapted and prevailed.

Like Mustang Sally said, no one ever saw Gotch, Thez or Rogers or any other wrestler from the Roosevelt Administration era.

I always held Bret to high regard. Outside of Owen Hart (who was more fluid and a graceful high flyer), Bret was who he claimed to be, The Best There Is Was and Ever Will Be...
People HAVE seen them wrestle. They are some of the most famous people from the pioneer era and tv era. People should actually know about those times as well, not hogans era onwards. Bret beat all those people you mentioned in the way he did but that was scripted you know. The only real point you have is that he out performed mr perfect. Also, him adapting is a factor that fits into in Ring performance, not wrestling skill. Prevailing, well It is fake just so you know .Appreciate you voting and posting but dude, you sound like a proper mark. No offence... Don't kill me.
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:32 PM
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As much as I respect Hart and Angle the correct answer here is Loe Thesz. He held the NWA title for over 10 years and invented many of the holds used today. He was a true pioneer in the industry and a legit shooter who could handle any situation when the local tallent tried to swerve him and win the title. If your not familure with him look at his profile on Wikipedia and check out his resume.
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:17 PM
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Since I don't know too much about Lou Thesz, I went with Kurt Angle. I have always thought that Angle was a slightly better technical wrestler than Bret Hart and Ric Flair.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamangle View Post
People HAVE seen them wrestle. They are some of the most famous people from the pioneer era and tv era. People should actually know about those times as well, not hogans era onwards. Bret beat all those people you mentioned in the way he did but that was scripted you know. The only real point you have is that he out performed mr perfect. Also, him adapting is a factor that fits into in Ring performance, not wrestling skill. Prevailing, well It is fake just so you know .Appreciate you voting and posting but dude, you sound like a proper mark. No offence... Don't kill me.
Proper Mark...did you just invent that term? Anyway, how many times have you seen those old timers wrestle, not counting clips on youtube? The reality is, nobody is that old to have witnessed them. It's like those "boxing experts" (not counting the late Bert Sugar) who universally agree that Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest fighter P4P. There is not enough video footage to make that claim. If you know of anywhere to see clips of those old wrestling greats, I would like to know if you have info.

I know finishes and results to matches are scripted. But that doesn't take away from the athleticism and performance of the wrestlers. If my comment makes me a "Proper Mark", then, so be it. It's a thread about wrestling dude, relax and don't take this shit so serious...have fun.

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Old 10-21-2012, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asiatic7 View Post
Proper Mark...did you just invent that term? Anyway, how many times have you seen those old timers wrestle, not counting clips on youtube? The reality is, nobody is that old to have witnessed them. It's like those "boxing experts" (not counting the late Bert Sugar) who universally agree that Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest fighter P4P. There is not enough video footage to make that claim. If you know of anywhere to see clips of those old wrestling greats, I would like to know if you have info.

I know finishes and results to matches are scripted. But that doesn't take away from the athleticism and performance of the wrestlers. If my comment makes me a "Proper Mark", then, so be it. It's a thread about wrestling dude, relax and don't take this shit so serious...have fun.

"IT'S STILL REAL TO ME DAMMIT!!!"-Proper Mark
If you actually read my post, I was talking about wrestling not in ring performance!

There are still people who have seen the old guys wrestle and even they compare those legends to wrestlers like bret hart or kurt angle. That is why they are included in the poll, as far a clips go, from what I have seen on YouTube, they are pretty slick.

Dude, if it's "still real to you dammit", fine but don't take this stuff serious dude.

Oh and the people have already voted for kurt angle.
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:23 PM
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If by "best", you mean as to who has the most skill & ability when it comes to Greco-Roman style wrestling and wrestling in and of itself in terms of a pure, 100% sport, then I have to go with Kurt Angle.

Wrestling as a "legit sport" and pro wrestling are generally two very different creatures. As far as "legit wrestling" as far as a sport, then I don't see how it couldn't be Kurt Angle because of the simple fact that he's won an Olympic gold medal.

In the world of sports where you have professional athletes like basketball, football & basebal players making tens of millions of dollars a year & haggling with owners & league officials, crooked promoters playing politics in boxing & contact sports while robbing it of its glory & hornor, winning an Olympic medal is probably the closest to a pure championship that one can win. You can't buy yourself to one, you can't threaten or politic your way to one. You can only win one by being among the very best in whatever sport you compete in. Winning an Olympic medal, especially a gold, is something that requires genuine ability to win and it an athlete's hype or charisma doesn't mean a damn.

Angle winning an Olympic gold medal in wrestling at the 1996 Summer Olympics is an unequaled feat in wrestling as far as a 100% legitimate sports achievement goes. Considering all the various other tournaments & awards he'd won prior to winning the Olympic gold medal and the ability he had to have in order to win it, I just can't go with anybody but Kurt Angle.
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