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  #1  
Old 05-29-2014, 06:55 PM
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Default Did Hogan need a heel turn?

Most people talk about how big of a heel turn Hogan made, and several documentaries show Hogan as reluctant at first to make the heel turn at Bash at the Beach.

I have always been under the impression that WCW throughout the 80s and most of the 90s had a different fan base than the WWF, despite the two wanting to go head to head with one another. There were definite overlap in the areas that the two promotions did shows at, but for the most part WCW was the southern promotion or "wrasslin" characterized with more sense of kayfabe realism than what the WWF put out. Going back to the 80s when the Horsemen jumped Rhodes at a gas station and broke his hand this was on a different level than what the WWF was putting out at the time. Of course both promotions got more cartoonish as slumped around the 1995 mark with the Dungeon of Doom.

I think Hogan needed the heel turn to stay viable. He was brought into WCW and instantly made the face of the company. However, when I look at his match with Flair for the title, the crowd's reaction was never as loud as he got in the WWF, and that persisted throughout his real American gimmick in WCW. For whatever reason, be it the southern audience, or fans in general growing tired of his gimmick, it never seemed like face Hogan caught much steam.

Hogan would run out of steam as a face, but as a heel he revived his career.

Of course the times were changing as well. When I look back at the wrestlers I considered larger than life super heroes for their time I think of Sting, Hogan, Macho Man, and Warrior. Besides the Warrior's inconsistencies and unprofessionalism, I think one of the reasons The Warrior flopped in WCW was because came off no different as he looked in 1991 whereas his contemporaries had adopted (and gone black).
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:15 PM
Attitude_Era_Guy Attitude_Era_Guy is offline
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Yes, Hulk Hogan really needed a heel turn. His American Hero gimmick was stale and a thing of the past and needed some freshness. Hence justifying his heel turn.
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  #3  
Old 05-29-2014, 09:22 PM
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well... "need" implies a lot. Truth is, he was Hulk Hogan. He "needed" nothing to stay relevant. He was, and arguably still is, the biggest name this business has ever seen. John Cena proves how relevant Hogan could have stayed had he never turned heel. Cena might not be popular, but I'll be damned if he ain't relevant. It did thrust him back into the spotlight, and make him more relevant again, but he would have stayed relevant and a main eventer until his retirement.

I think WCW needed it. It was what brought them enough attention to finally take the lead in the ratings over the WWF.
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:48 PM
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Oh God yes Hulk need that change, he needed to evolve with the times, thats how good characterization works, look at the Undertaker for proof on that.
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Old 05-29-2014, 11:34 PM
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pipebomber, I have to disagree. Look at Hogan at that time - the fans were not really into him. Even now, he always gets a pop whenever he returns but after he is around for a while, fans start to tire of him. That's what happened in WCW and it wasn't getting better. Something needed to change and it needed to be big. They tried the semi-heel approach where he was still the good guy but was wearing black and it just came off as lame. I think he needed to turn or he probably would have left WCW. They say Sting was a choice if Hogan decided not to turn but I think had Hogan not turned, the nWo would have flopped because you would have Hogan as your main face against them and at that time, there was no way he was going to lose and look bad enough to get them over. The angle probably would have ran a few months, maybe Sting got the title and in the end Hogan beats him for it and end of angle. Then they are back to where they were before it. Hogan needed the change.
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Old 05-30-2014, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoopin' ass View Post
pipebomber, I have to disagree. Look at Hogan at that time - the fans were not really into him. Even now, he always gets a pop whenever he returns but after he is around for a while, fans start to tire of him. That's what happened in WCW and it wasn't getting better. Something needed to change and it needed to be big. They tried the semi-heel approach where he was still the good guy but was wearing black and it just came off as lame. I think he needed to turn or he probably would have left WCW. They say Sting was a choice if Hogan decided not to turn but I think had Hogan not turned, the nWo would have flopped because you would have Hogan as your main face against them and at that time, there was no way he was going to lose and look bad enough to get them over. The angle probably would have ran a few months, maybe Sting got the title and in the end Hogan beats him for it and end of angle. Then they are back to where they were before it. Hogan needed the change.
You don't seem to get what I said. I don't see anywhere in your post that shows he needed it. I see where you explain why the nWo needs it. I also see where you say WCW needed it. I just don't see how him not turning would have negatively affected him. I do see how turning benefited him, but I don't think staying face would have hurt him.

Your scenario is very similar to John Cena vs The Nexus. I agree if Hogan would have never turned that the nWo would have fizzled out and not been near as successful. The nWo needed a Hogan turn. WCW needed a Hogan turn. Hulk Hogan did not need a Hogan turn. It didn't hurt Hogan. I even agree that it helped Hogan. But Hulk Hogan didn't need it. He still would have been the biggest face in the industry. Even without the nWo he would have ALWAYS had a place in the business. He might have even decided to hang up his boots at a younger age because he might have gotten bored with the same old song and dance. But he didn't need it.

John Cena today and Hulk Hogan then are very VERY similar. People have been saying for years and years and years that John Cena needs to turn heel. He hasn't yet, but he has stayed relevant. Why? Because he is viewed as the biggest name in the industry today. Face or Heel, Exciting or Stale, he has stayed relevant. Hulk Hogan would have also stayed relevant.

Hogan then, like John Cena today, had risen to a point where he would always be relevant as long as the powers that be want him to be relevant. He had proven that he wasn't just a flavor of the month. he was the biggest name in wrestling for the past Decade.

If John Cena doesn't turn heel do you think he wont stay relevant? because comparatively, it's the same situation.

Last edited by pipebomber : 05-30-2014 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 05-30-2014, 03:32 AM
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Hogan did need to turn heel. He did bring big attendance numbers to WCW as the Hulkster who was American made, and the crowds were bigger for WCW's shows than they ever were in the past.

However, it seemed like they were there to see Hogan be beaten rather than win. I mean yes you had the kids in the red and yellow shirts but most of the fat guys with the missing teeth were booing him and those fat guys made up the majority of WCW fans.

Hogan had been gone for a bit when he returned at bash at the beach and he got a huge pop, not because people were glad to see Hogan but because they thought he was going to help Sting - their hero.

Turning Hogan heel fed right into the slobbery the mouths of WCW fans.
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  #8  
Old 05-30-2014, 08:10 AM
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I see many of your points that Hogan would have been relevant without a heel turn. However, I feel like the Hollywood turn inject a few more years into him being the face of the company.

I think in many ways Bischoff saw that he may a sizable investment with Hogan, and Savage to a lesser extent. I am sure that even Luger had a heavy price tag on him.

WCW in 1995 and early 96 much like WWF in 1992. Flair and Macho were running angles with Flair stealing Elizabeth. The WCW brought in Renegade in a poor attempt to capitalize on the mystery of the Ultimate Warrior and teamed him with the Hogan and Savage to face the cartoonish Dungeon of Doom. Hogan was "American Made" which was exactly the same as his "Real American" gimmick. You had a Giant. WCW was very face heavy with those same larger than life super hero gimmick wrestlers like Sting, Hogan, Savage, and their attempt at making Renegade the Ultimate Warrior. The only mentionable heel was Flair. The Horsemen made an interesting heel group against Hogan but the Dungeon was absurd.

I think Bischoff had to create a different dichotomy for the storylines and protect his investment in all that main event talent.
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Old 05-30-2014, 09:04 AM
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the fans were starting to turn on hogan in 1992, by 1996 hogan needed the turn to revitalize his career. if you were watching wrestling at the time youd agree. once hogan turned heel and nwo took off the rest is history and to say in hindsight that the turn wasnt needed is asinine
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Old 05-30-2014, 09:42 AM
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Agreed Catacomb. Hogan needed the heel turn, rather WCW needed Hogan to turn heel is up for more debate. I think he needed to begin to take a backseat 1996 while still remaining relevant.
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