WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > Wrestling - Non Spam Sections > Old School Wrestling
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-01-2015, 01:42 PM
Vader's Avatar
Vader Vader is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 142
Vader is looking to come up from OCW...Vader is looking to come up from OCW...
Default Reexamining The Rock and Austin

This was originally meant to be a reply to another posters comment about being annoyed with The Rock for the first time but I started going too far off topic...



At the end of the day The Rock's selling point has always been his charisma and entertainment factor. I think he's decent in the ring but he's not well rounded or even what I would consider a total package wrestler. Austin and Rock rose up during an era when pushes were more about microphone skills than in-ring set. Austin can definitely wrestle, but he is another guy; at least post neck injury, that I would consider got his push because of his microphone talents.

The other side of that is that The Rock and to a lesser degree Austin's microphone talents were really just in their ability to talk crap. Most of their promos buried their opponents characters.

"I don't give a damn about any place." -Austin during the Canadian vs. American angle.

"Who in the blue hell are you?"-The Rock to WCW Champion Booker T during the height of the ECW/WCW Invasion. Sting made the remark during a non-WWE documentary some years ago that what The Rock said was all it took to bury a guy like Booker T and the rest of the incoming WCW roster.

In my opinion, it's only up until the PG era that I have seen many people in the IWC wanting praising these guys. I used to frequent another big wrestling forum back in 2001 and back then saying you were a fan of The Rock or Austin immediately made people think your were markish. Despite many of us wanting the Attitude era back now, many at that time were tired of seeing a bunch of guys come out and run their mouths who couldn't do much in the ring when there were many talented guys that could who still weren't quite getting their push. The Ruthless Aggression era was seen by many at the time as a welcome change to people getting castrated in wrestling arenas, and guys who could wrestle in and out of the ring were getting their push like RVD, Guerrero, Benoit, Jericho, and Angle.

I just don't see a strong case being for made for The Rock or Austin stacking up to overall talents like Jericho, Hart, Sting, Angle, HBK, and Hart. It's really only because the PG era is boring in and out of the ring that we are missing the Attitude era days.
__________________

Last edited by Vader : 04-01-2015 at 01:48 PM.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-01-2015, 02:25 PM
The Fabulous Rougeau's's Avatar
The Fabulous Rougeau's The Fabulous Rougeau's is offline
Registered User
Knockout Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 688
The Fabulous Rougeau's worked a dark match on ECW recently...The Fabulous Rougeau's worked a dark match on ECW recently...The Fabulous Rougeau's worked a dark match on ECW recently...The Fabulous Rougeau's worked a dark match on ECW recently...The Fabulous Rougeau's worked a dark match on ECW recently...The Fabulous Rougeau's worked a dark match on ECW recently...The Fabulous Rougeau's worked a dark match on ECW recently...The Fabulous Rougeau's worked a dark match on ECW recently...
Default

Rock may have put down people on the mic, but I can't think of any other top flight wrestler who consistently made his opponents look good and put them over quite like The Rock. Guys like Triple H, Mankind, Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar where all elevated due to there involvement with The Rock.
__________________


All American Boys
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-02-2015, 06:38 AM
Goldie's Avatar
Goldie Goldie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 143
Goldie is looking to come up from OCW...Goldie is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Austin and Rock were capable of good matches with wrestlers they clicked with, though granted neither was a 5 star in ring performer.... but then again neither was Hogan? Neither was Bruno? and they were the 2 biggest stars of the 70s/80s eras.
And Cena of course is the biggest star of the modern era.

There probably aren't that many wrestlers who were 5 star workers and had bags of charisma... Savage, Flair and Michaels come to mind.... and though all 3 were capable draws, they were not on that Hogan/Austin/Rock level in terms of mainstream media appeal.

Many 5 star in ring performers- Dynamite, Benoit, Steamboat, Bret were much better in the ring than on the mic..... and Vince has often pushed the guys (to the very top) who were the guys who sold the tickets, sold the most merchandise and could work a crowd.

You could look at Roddy Piper and argue that had he not been blessed with the ability to talk, his wrestling career may never have taken off.... as his in ring wrestling was by far the weakest part of his repertoire.

The IWC are die hard fans and tend to appreciate the in ring product- hence maybe not falling for the Austin/Rock cool aid back in the late 90s/early 2000s.
Though the die-hard fans remain and stay loyal.... the boom periods explode when the casual fans/mainstream audience start watching the product. This sector of fans watch for the entertaining personalities.... your Hogans/Austins/Rocks as wrestling becomes cool again... and the in ring product comes second after the personalities.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-02-2015, 08:40 AM
Waylon Mercy's Avatar
Waylon Mercy Waylon Mercy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 125
Waylon Mercy is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldie View Post
Austin and Rock were capable of good matches with wrestlers they clicked with, though granted neither was a 5 star in ring performer.... but then again neither was Hogan? Neither was Bruno? and they were the 2 biggest stars of the 70s/80s eras.
And Cena of course is the biggest star of the modern era.

There probably aren't that many wrestlers who were 5 star workers and had bags of charisma... Savage, Flair and Michaels come to mind.... and though all 3 were capable draws, they were not on that Hogan/Austin/Rock level in terms of mainstream media appeal.

Many 5 star in ring performers- Dynamite, Benoit, Steamboat, Bret were much better in the ring than on the mic..... and Vince has often pushed the guys (to the very top) who were the guys who sold the tickets, sold the most merchandise and could work a crowd.

You could look at Roddy Piper and argue that had he not been blessed with the ability to talk, his wrestling career may never have taken off.... as his in ring wrestling was by far the weakest part of his repertoire.

The IWC are die hard fans and tend to appreciate the in ring product- hence maybe not falling for the Austin/Rock cool aid back in the late 90s/early 2000s.
Though the die-hard fans remain and stay loyal.... the boom periods explode when the casual fans/mainstream audience start watching the product. This sector of fans watch for the entertaining personalities.... your Hogans/Austins/Rocks as wrestling becomes cool again... and the in ring product comes second after the personalities.
I don't know....nobody I have ever seen could pull off an eye poke like Piper could. Truthfully, he was not a great wrestler, but he was a master in the story telling / ring psychology aspect of it.
__________________
Lives are going to be in Waylon Mercy's hands...if you know what I mean.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-02-2015, 07:29 PM
CrucifiedRaven's Avatar
CrucifiedRaven CrucifiedRaven is offline
The Evenflow Effect
Knockout Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 629
CrucifiedRaven is looking to come up from OCW...CrucifiedRaven is looking to come up from OCW...CrucifiedRaven is looking to come up from OCW...CrucifiedRaven is looking to come up from OCW...CrucifiedRaven is looking to come up from OCW...CrucifiedRaven is looking to come up from OCW...CrucifiedRaven is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Yes, Steve Austin and The Rock mainly got over with their attitude and promo skills.

Never underestimate the power of a catchphrase. It astonishes me how so few top guys in today's world don't have a catchphrase that fans can chant along with. Look at Daniel Bryan, he's probably the only one who really got over with the live crowds and yes he is awesome in the ring, but fans want to chant along when they're at shows.

"If you want to see Stone Cold do XYZ... Give me a hell yeah!"
"Austin 3:16 says..."
"And that's the bottom line, because Stone Cold said so..."
"What?"

"Finally, The Rock has come back..."
"Take my size 15 boot and stick it straight up your candy ass"
"Check you into the Smackdown Hotel"
"If you smell what The Rock is cooking"

Yea, they could talk enormous amounts of crap, but they did it in ways where fans could basically chant the smacktalk along with them. Who didn't go to a live event and wait for them to do a catchphrase so you could chant with it?

But it's not only about mic skills. I mean... Val Venis, The Godfather, Road Dogg, D-Generation X all had catchphrases as well which did get them each over. Yet none of them came close to touching The Rock or Steve Austin. That's where just sheer attitude and charisma takes over. There was something about both of those guys that just made you pay attention to them even before they opened their mouths.

As for in the ring, The Rock was never that good. By 2000 his style was good enough to put on an entertaining 15-20min match, usually consisting of lots of interference and outside brawling. Steve Austin was an excellent in ring wrestler, one of the most underrated actually in the ring until the neck injury in 1997. After that he was forced to be a brawler because he had finally taken off in a way that no one expected. His matches also usually brawled around the ring or through the crowd. It was also just a symptom of the times, you weren't seeing many wrestling clinics being put on in the ring until Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit emerged.

Many guys have gotten over in many different ways. But even if they weren't the best in the ring, they made up for it in every other category. So much so that fans were so emotionally invested in them that it didn't matter how good the match was.
__________________
Nevermore...
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-02-2015, 07:54 PM
wrestler36 wrestler36 is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: chicagoland area
Posts: 411
wrestler36 is looking to come up from OCW...wrestler36 is looking to come up from OCW...wrestler36 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

I have to wholeheartedly disagree. I think both Austin and Rock were both excellent wrestlers capable of 5 star matches. Just go back to his WCW era with his matches with Steamboat, and teaming with Pillman. As for the Rock, I think he was the total package. He could brawl, he could wrestle and hell, he was somewhat of a high flyer in his early days. But at 6'5, 270, how can you expect him to have the same wrestling style as a Guerrero, Bryan, Jericho, etc?

You also said something about it was an era where mic skills were more prominent than in ring ability. Isn't that all the time? Hogan, Austin/Rock, nWo, Goldberg were all the peaks in modern day pro wrestling.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-03-2015, 09:20 PM
rmp0012002 rmp0012002 is offline
Registered User
Comedy Jobber For Life: AKA Santino
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 272
rmp0012002 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

This may be harsh for some Rock fans but he was all promo with limited in-ring skills. Austin had tremendous in-ring skills, which he displayed in WCW, but as Stone Cold he didn't need to use as he was more brawler. It's a shame since he could hang with the more technical guys.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-06-2015, 08:57 PM
d_henderson1810 d_henderson1810 is offline
Registered User
WWE Women's Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 952
d_henderson1810 is looking to come up from OCW...d_henderson1810 is looking to come up from OCW...d_henderson1810 is looking to come up from OCW...d_henderson1810 is looking to come up from OCW...d_henderson1810 is looking to come up from OCW...d_henderson1810 is looking to come up from OCW...d_henderson1810 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmp0012002 View Post
This may be harsh for some Rock fans but he was all promo with limited in-ring skills. Austin had tremendous in-ring skills, which he displayed in WCW, but as Stone Cold he didn't need to use as he was more brawler. It's a shame since he could hang with the more technical guys.
I imagine it wasn't just Austin being "Stone Cold" that made him a brawler.

I read somewhere that Austin was forced to adapt his ring style from technical to brawling, because his neck injury and the chance of re-injuring it meant that he had to do less moves and dominate matches, so as to protect his neck.

I venture to say that, if Austin's neck injury didn't happen, he may have done some more moves in the ring then he did, because he was capable of it.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-14-2015, 09:08 AM
Vader's Avatar
Vader Vader is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 142
Vader is looking to come up from OCW...Vader is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Austin was definitely a step slower after his neck injury. He put on great matches in ECW, some in WCW, and an excellent match with Bret. He was still able to get a huge push during the Attitude era because that time was centered around microphone skills and storylines, but also because his brawler style matched his gimmick.

Again, I don't think anyone would argue anyone could cut better promos then Austin and Rock except maybe Hogan. My point is at the height of their careers (Austin post-injury), neither were the total package types that I think you got with guys like Angle, Sting, HBK, and Cena.
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-15-2015, 12:10 PM
THTRobtaylor's Avatar
THTRobtaylor THTRobtaylor is offline
Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist
Ring of Honor Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,435
THTRobtaylor scored a win over Santino Marella...THTRobtaylor scored a win over Santino Marella...THTRobtaylor scored a win over Santino Marella...THTRobtaylor scored a win over Santino Marella...THTRobtaylor scored a win over Santino Marella...THTRobtaylor scored a win over Santino Marella...THTRobtaylor scored a win over Santino Marella...THTRobtaylor scored a win over Santino Marella...THTRobtaylor scored a win over Santino Marella...THTRobtaylor scored a win over Santino Marella...THTRobtaylor scored a win over Santino Marella...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmp0012002 View Post
This may be harsh for some Rock fans but he was all promo with limited in-ring skills. Austin had tremendous in-ring skills, which he displayed in WCW, but as Stone Cold he didn't need to use as he was more brawler. It's a shame since he could hang with the more technical guys.
It was more that once his neck injury hit he was limited in what he could do in the ring, and that coincided with the brawler character taking off.

A lot of Austin's post Summerslam 97 moveset was based around punches and avoiding bumps. The Thesz Press for example was a way to get an opponent down without him having to bump too, like a suplex would.
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
WrestleZone.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.