State of the WWE

[NYSandman]

Note that these are just opinions. If you disagree with anything, then that’s what these boards are for. Discussion.

I’m starting to really lose interest in the WWE. It seems that in the past few years, nothing very revolutionary has happened. It’s just the same old thing, week after week. I’ve noticed that, like a soap opera, I can go two weeks without watching Raw or Smackdown, and then still know exactly what is going on. Perhaps, just like in the movie industry, so much has been done already that the WWE just can’t think of anything it hasn’t done before. Like all the remakes that are being made.

Every time something new happens, like Orton winning the title, things are switched back to the old standard. We are again faced with the fact that John Cena most likely will win the WWE title, again. We will then have to deal with that until Wrestlemania, when Cena will prevail, again!

Even though the fans do not react to Cena as a babyface, and even though this whole thing with Orton has been done again and again, we have this match one more time. Hating a wrestler is fine, if they are SUPPOSED to be hated. Cena is supposed to be a Hulk Hogan like entity, yet he is universally booed out of every arena.

We have been stuck in storyline rut for months, with Vince having matches with a midget, and having a midget win some matches. We have been given storylines that lead nowhere, like the “limo” storyline. Granted, Benoit had a lot to do with that one being aborted, but still.

We’ve seen, time and time again, old things that worked scrapped. ECW, which had a rabid fan base, and which provided something different, has been murdered and left bleeding in the dust. We’ve heard the excuses of guys getting hurt too much while engaging in the “old” ECW style, but that seems like bullshit. Years ago, Vince had a huge opportunity when he took over WCW, and it seems that was ruined as well. Maybe Vince enjoys ruining his old competition.

We had a Royal Rumble in which 29 wrestlers had to step aside for a guy who has been gone for months, and who drew number 30. I am not bashing Cena in this thread, but it has gone too far for me now.

We are forced, week after week, to watch Ric Flair. Flair is, without a doubt, one of the greatest of all time, a man who deserves to be respected and honored for years of super quality wrestling. But, he cannot wrestle anymore, and seeing him is quite frankly painful. 1,000,000 chops and a ball shot is not my idea of entertainment.

Men who cannot wrestle, like Khali, are continued on as main eventers, even though they stink up every arena they are in.

And, doesn’t it seem that it’s been the same shit for years now? Like there has been no progression, no forward momentum, no changes.

I’ve started watching TNA, and quite frankly enjoy it. It is different, and new things are being done. Even though the production quality does not match Vince’s, it is new and exciting to me simply because it is DIFFERENT.

If you notice, most of this started when WCW and ECW went out. Vince knows he’s really the only game in town, and competition IS healthy. Even Jim Ross has said this. It also seems that the WWE no longer heeds the calls of the fans like it used to. PEOPLE ARE SICK OF CENA! Again, I go back to this simply because it is the best example. PEOPLE DON’T LIKE SNITSKY! PEOPLE DON’T LIKE KHALI! Years ago, if a babyface was booed, he was out of a job. No more.

What is the solution? There is none. Fans will not stop watching, and new, younger fans who don’t know what it was like will watch because they don’t know what they’ve missed.

They’ve missed Hogan turning on the world. They’ve missed Austin and Vince going to war. They’ve missed the NWO, the original DX, the four horsemen, Hulk Hogan in his glory days, Savage and Steamboat defying physics, Mick Foley flying off a steel cage twice in one night, Snuka flying like an eagle, Ultimate Warriors lackluster wrestling but incredible excitement, and all the other things I remember fondly. It may be we have to adjust as fans, or it may be that we will one day lose interest in this great sport.

Just a rant I felt like going on.

[MattMoses]

Originally Posted by NYSandman

I’m starting to really lose interest in the WWE. It seems that in the past few years, nothing very revolutionary has happened.

Nothing revolutionary hasn't happened in the wrestling business for quite some time now. And with the current state of wrestling, I wouldn't expect anything revolutionary to happen for a while.

Originally Posted by NYSandman

Every time something new happens, like Orton winning the title, things are switched back to the old standard. We are again faced with the fact that John Cena most likely will win the WWE title, again. We will then have to deal with that until Wrestlemania, when Cena will prevail, again!

Indeed. If we see another year long Cena run, things are going to get a little stale. Who on the RAW brand hasn't feuded with Cena yet? I'm hoping for a draft not long after WrestleMania, it will give me hope for some fresh feuds. Cena and Taker would be a great one.

Originally Posted by NYSandman

Even though the fans do not react to him as a heel, and even though this whole thing with Orton has been done again and again, we have this match one more time. Hating a wrestler is fine, if they are SUPPOSED to be hated. Cena is supposed to be a Hulk Hogan like entity, yet he is universally booed out of every arena.

I wouldn't call it 'universally booed', but he does recieve his fair share of booing. At least he can still incite some form of reaction from the crowds.

Originally Posted by NYSandman

We have been stuck in storyline rut for months, with Vince having matches with a midget, and having a midget win some matches. We have been given storylines that lead nowhere, like the “limo” storyline. Granted, Benoit had a lot to do with that one being aborted, but still.

Yes, some of the storylines over the past few years have been very weak. There's definately some kind of rut within the WWE writers, because some of their material has become very questional, bizarre and worthless. It seems the meaning of progression flew out of their vocabulary.

Originally Posted by NYSandman

We had a Royal Rumble in which 29 wrestlers had to step aside for a guy who has been gone for months, and who drew number 30. I am not bashing Cena in this thread, but it has gone too far for me now.

Cena can't be blamed for that, it's the bookers fault. As a casual Cena fan, I can't say I was too happy with it myself, and don't agree with the decision the WWE made at all. But it still provided us with a great suprise, which most of us thinking Cena was the last person to make an appearance.

Originally Posted by NYSandman

We are forced, week after week, to watch Ric Flair. Flair is, without a doubt, one of the greatest of all time, a man who deserves to be respected and honored for years of super quality wrestling. But, he cannot wrestle anymore, and seeing him is quite frankly painful. 1,000,000 chops and a ball shot is not my idea of entertainment.

While I agree his in ring work has become more the lackluster, the man is still wanted to be seen by the fans. He gets quite strong, positive reactions from them, and I, for one, still enjoy seeing Mr. Flair on TV.

I think he'd be much better as an authority figure or playing a managerial role opposed to still being a regular in ring worker.

Originally Posted by NYSandman

Men who cannot wrestle, like Khali, are continued on as main eventers, even though they stink up every arena they are in.

I see him more as a stand in for lack of main event heels. Yes, he's crap in the ring, but he fulfils the role as a dominant heel.

Originally Posted by NYSandman

If you notice, most of this started when WCW and ECW went out. Vince knows he’s really the only game in town, and competition IS healthy. Even Jim Ross has said this.

That's one major factor I'd say contributes to the WWE's entertainment quality as of late - lack of competition. They aren't motivated to better themselves every week to try new, different things, unlike 10 years ago.

Originally Posted by NYSandman

What is the solution? There is none. Fans will not stop watching, and new, younger fans who don’t know what it was like will watch because they don’t know what they’ve missed.

The solution would be competiton. But we all know that's years off happening. TNA, the WWE's only possible threat in the future, has a hell of a long way to go before they can provide in any shape or form competition to them.

I agree with you NYSandman, the WWE seems to be in a rut as of late. Not financially, as we all know they are earning some big bucks. Creatively, they are mediocre.
I really haven't been excited about the WWE product since the beginning of the Invasion angle, and we all know that was handled very poorly. I have still watched it for the last 7 or so years, but not with as much interest. the main reason I got into wrestling was because of WCW. This is not a knock at all to WWE, but it was the ALTERNATIVE, something DIFFERENT.
The same thing applies to TNA. I have missed the last couple of weeks of Impact, and have been kicking myself fo doing so. But I am hardly saddened when I miss Raw (I hardly ever watch ECW or SmackDown). I guess it all comes back to the point that competition = good thing. Hopefully TNA will grow, exponentially or not, so we wrestling fans can see another boom in the business.

Originally Posted by NYSandman

Note that these are just opinions. If you disagree with anything, then that’s what these boards are for. Discussion.

I’m starting to really lose interest in the WWE. It seems that in the past few years, nothing very revolutionary has happened. It’s just the same old thing, week after week. I’ve noticed that, like a soap opera, I can go two weeks without watching Raw or Smackdown, and then still know exactly what is going on. Perhaps, just like in the movie industry, so much has been done already that the WWE just can’t think of anything it hasn’t done before. Like all the remakes that are being made.

Every time something new happens, like Orton winning the title, things are switched back to the old standard. We are again faced with the fact that John Cena most likely will win the WWE title, again. We will then have to deal with that until Wrestlemania, when Cena will prevail, again!

Even though the fans do not react to Cena as a babyface, and even though this whole thing with Orton has been done again and again, we have this match one more time. Hating a wrestler is fine, if they are SUPPOSED to be hated. Cena is supposed to be a Hulk Hogan like entity, yet he is universally booed out of every arena.

We have been stuck in storyline rut for months, with Vince having matches with a midget, and having a midget win some matches. We have been given storylines that lead nowhere, like the “limo” storyline. Granted, Benoit had a lot to do with that one being aborted, but still.

We’ve seen, time and time again, old things that worked scrapped. ECW, which had a rabid fan base, and which provided something different, has been murdered and left bleeding in the dust. We’ve heard the excuses of guys getting hurt too much while engaging in the “old” ECW style, but that seems like bullshit. Years ago, Vince had a huge opportunity when he took over WCW, and it seems that was ruined as well. Maybe Vince enjoys ruining his old competition.

We had a Royal Rumble in which 29 wrestlers had to step aside for a guy who has been gone for months, and who drew number 30. I am not bashing Cena in this thread, but it has gone too far for me now.

We are forced, week after week, to watch Ric Flair. Flair is, without a doubt, one of the greatest of all time, a man who deserves to be respected and honored for years of super quality wrestling. But, he cannot wrestle anymore, and seeing him is quite frankly painful. 1,000,000 chops and a ball shot is not my idea of entertainment.

Men who cannot wrestle, like Khali, are continued on as main eventers, even though they stink up every arena they are in.

And, doesn’t it seem that it’s been the same shit for years now? Like there has been no progression, no forward momentum, no changes.

I’ve started watching TNA, and quite frankly enjoy it. It is different, and new things are being done. Even though the production quality does not match Vince’s, it is new and exciting to me simply because it is DIFFERENT.

If you notice, most of this started when WCW and ECW went out. Vince knows he’s really the only game in town, and competition IS healthy. Even Jim Ross has said this. It also seems that the WWE no longer heeds the calls of the fans like it used to. PEOPLE ARE SICK OF CENA! Again, I go back to this simply because it is the best example. PEOPLE DON’T LIKE SNITSKY! PEOPLE DON’T LIKE KHALI! Years ago, if a babyface was booed, he was out of a job. No more.

What is the solution? There is none. Fans will not stop watching, and new, younger fans who don’t know what it was like will watch because they don’t know what they’ve missed.

They’ve missed Hogan turning on the world. They’ve missed Austin and Vince going to war. They’ve missed the NWO, the original DX, the four horsemen, Hulk Hogan in his glory days, Savage and Steamboat defying physics, Mick Foley flying off a steel cage twice in one night, Snuka flying like an eagle, Ultimate Warriors lackluster wrestling but incredible excitement, and all the other things I remember fondly. It may be we have to adjust as fans, or it may be that we will one day lose interest in this great sport.

Just a rant I felt like going on.

This thread annoys me greatly. It is nothing I haven't heard at least a hundred times. It is turning into a bandwagon now. These days people say and do things just to look cool. I wanna make a couple of quick points:

1) WWE has done a lot since WCW fell through in 2001. They generated a whole new generation of superstars to replace the likes of Austin and The Rock. This new generation includes Cena, Orton, Kennedy, Edge, etc. They created a lot of good (and bad) storylines, came up with some new match types (Elimination Chamber, Ambulance, Punjabi Prison, Carriage, etc), have come up with new concepts (ex: MITB), and have found different methods to appeal to the general audience. And as much as wrestling marks here hate it those methods are working.

2) I remember Hogan "turning on the world," DX, Steamboat Vs Savage, and even The 4 Horsemen. I also remember The Evolution (quite possibly the best stable of all times), ECW 1 Night Stand, the return of HBK, Rock Vs Hogan, etc.

3) Stop bagging on Cena. He is the best thing WWE has going and I'll tell you why. The 8-13 yr olds love him and the smarks hate him. He gets a loud reaction no matter where he goes or what he does. And these 8-13 yr olds will be 18-23 yr olds in 10 years and believe me, they will still cheer for him.

I understand the points that have been made so far on this thread but I myself have a few problems with the WWE right now. I thought I was the only one to notice that the same wrestlers were fighting each other over and over agaiin. Also I think that belts are being held for over extended periods of time and therefore making them irrelevent. The biggest problem right now with the WWE is the brand split. There is just not enough wrestlers to go around anymore in order to make it competitive. You have Batista in every championship title fight since Summerslam. MVP has held the US belt for almost a year and rarely defends it (although I suppose he will when Hardy comes back). The US title has become a joke. The cruiserweight title disappeared and an ECW tage team is holding the WWE Tag Title. Vince should get rid of ECW and distribute the wrestlers equally between Raw and Smackdown. Also it should be manditory for a title to be defended within 30 days or the wrestler risks forfeiting it. The last point I will make is Vince should stay out of the ring and start managing his company properly. Maybe if he wasn't in the ring all the time he could stand back and see what's going on and make the changes required to keep the WWE going.

[TWJC: The Beginning]

WWE is perfectly fine, ratings are lower than the Tude era, SO WHAT, those numbers were enormous. Plus, there are more channels now, more channels means more options, also, Tivo, which means more people will record and watch something else, plus the internet, which means more people can watch shows on the internet.

By all my estimations, WWE still sells a shitton of merch, especially Cena shirts to kids, Globally, they seem as strong as ever also.

They aren't in a funk at all, they're just leveled out. Nothing revolutionary, but they've changed, they're building a base again. Remember, Hogan was a kid guy too, then when those kids got older, they turned to more edgy programming, I'm inclined to believe that WWE is trying to make a cycle of kid-teen-adult, kid-teen-adult and keep the same viewers as time goes on.

Also, the wrestling isn't THAT bad at all. Cena is underrated and getting the best reactions of anyone in at least 5 years consistently, they're buy rates are still big, Wrestlemania drew 80,000 last year and will likely draw 100,000 again this year.


WWE is in great shape, are they putting on IWC style shows no, but why would they, that doesn't sell and they have never done that. I dont' want things to be like the attitude era, the wrestling was worse than it is today and the storylines were even more out there. Entertainment sells more than sport, and that's why WWE does what they do, and why they're still a very healthy company today.


I mean Jesus, the heading on the WZ main page made it sound like Raw did horrible ratings, news to some maybe, but a 3.4 ISN'T horrible, it's very solid and WWE has been consistently drawing mid 3's-4's for the past 3-4 years. WWE is in no trouble of failing. Plus, they've built a whole new group of able main eventers and appear to be grooming more.

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

NYSandman, I agree with everything you said in your first post, except for one thing, and that's TNA being a nice alternative.

I have tried watching TNA several times, and I just can't stand it. The commentators remind me of some lackluster developmental program, where a guy walking into the ring gets an "OH MY GOD LOOK AT THAT WALKING!" kind of reaction. There are a few wrestlers that have a lot of talent...AJ Styles being one of them...but at the same time, there are a lot that are just worn out and boring. Do I really want to see an overweight Goldust 3.0 with an infatuation with a rat? You do say the production quality is lower, which I obviously have to agree with, even in terms of the entrances. And as far as storylines go, they aren't doing anything to be proud of or anything revolutionary either. I mean...Judas vs Abyss....they're related in a brother format, Judas's manager is related, they have slightly demonic gimmicks, etc. Doesn't that ring a bell when you remember the whole Kane/Undertaker/Paul Bearer angle?

WWE's definitely suffering from a Creative brain fart right now, but I don't think anybody in TNA has the answers. I think one of WWE's main problems is HHH. Now, the guy's been a great performer, but we all know he manipulates what goes on in the company in favor for himself and those he likes as opposed to what the fans want. Hopefully, with the draft and post-Wrestlemania shift that seems to happen every year, they can start cleaning things up and moving back into the right direction.

[Audioslave]

The major difference between WWE and TNA is that I can actually follow WWE from week to week and TNA seems to do the whole Crash TV (mutated with a surplus of ridiculous) thing even though that style of wrestling television died out years ago and it stopped being effective after Russo left WWF. Maybe even before, I dunno.

Kreski brought a new era of sense to the booking, even if they made quite a bit of a lot of mistakes since then (not pushing Jericho and RVD to the moon to fill the gap left by Austin/Rock being chief among them). Everything has a point A and point B and they generally progress logically.

TNA is a WHOLE other ballgame. I don't even think that THEY know what they're doing, no less the fans that watch it.

All I think the WWE needs is that overarching storyline that encompasses some of their top stars and elevates some of their younger guys. What that'd be, I don't know. I think they suffer from the fact that Stone Cold is too injured to come back, because I figure if they had him in the fray things would be a bit better. Maybe.

[caster troy]

[quote=TWJC: Also, the wrestling isn't THAT bad at all. Cena is underrated and getting the best reactions of anyone in at least 5 years consistently, they're buy rates are still big, Wrestlemania drew 80,000 last year and will likely draw 100,000 again this year.QUOTE]

your joking right. 80000 people. the last time we go more than 80000 people at wrestlemania was about fucking 20 years ago. vince lied about the revenue capacity. he told lilian garcia purposely. there was only like 67000 people.

[Ropow]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the new storylines, they are semi-appealing. I remember when I was younger and was just entranced with the story lines, but now a days I just can't seem to get into them like I used to.

Personally, I think what would make the show more interesting is if they use Steph's pregnancy as a publicity stunt. Use this to bring to terms Triple H and Steph as a real life couple, only as if they'd been having a secret affair behind Vince's back, brings back the Mcmahon family back into the WWE,