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  #1  
Old 01-07-2011, 11:21 AM
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Default Topic #2, Group #1: Should College/University Athletes Be Paid

This thread is to be used by those in Group #1 (see the stickied thread for rosters if you're unsure of where you are). Any other posts in here will be flagged for spam and deleted. You have four days from the time this is posted to post (as in the time this is posted on Tuesday, which is approximately when the new topic will go up. Note that I mean 96 hours after MY initial post, not the lead off debater.) your arguments, rebuttals and anything else you want. Best overall debater in that time period receives 10 points, second receives 9, third receives 8, all others receive 7.

Hitting Lead-Off in this debate is Blue Cardinal. He has 24 hours to reply and if he doesn't then it's open season.

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Topic: Should College/University Athletes Be Paid For Their Time on the Field/Court?

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Old 01-08-2011, 11:23 AM
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Hmm…definitely an interesting topic. I’m going with a no though. Simply put, you should be getting paid as a professional athlete, not an amateur. If colleges were going to pay every student athlete for each game or for each week they “work”, then the students wouldn’t make that much anyway. Football, baseball, hockey, and basketball are just a few of the many sports that are likely offered to play in. Baseball and hockey don’t generate as much revenue as football or basketball, so that wouldn’t be fair, and I believe would be a violation of Title IX. So we start a base salary at $20 a game or week? Well football would be screwed from the get go since they play 11-13 games a season.

I actually think that athletes are getting paid (sorta) by continuing their education at established schools such as USC, Michigan State, Florida, among the thousands of schools in the US and around the world. Some are getting full ride scholarships to high class universities just to play a sport, and have the added bonus of attending classes that they want to go to. What most people don’t realize or don’t get is that these student-athletes aren’t just athletes. They are students first and need to be going to class and getting an education (which they need to pass their classes to play). That’s payment enough in my eyes.
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:34 AM
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I'm definitely going to agree with you David. College athletes should not be paid. Most of them get into college for free on scholarships, and if they are good enough, they will get a professional job, and get paid then. What's the point in paying them now? Their free tuition is more than enough payment. Getting a football or basketball scholarship to some Ivy Tech school such as Yale means you get into Yale, a top school for the smartest people, for free. Yale costs $40,000-$45,000 a year. That means that they get $170000 worth of free tuition. That seems like more than enough payment to me.
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:36 AM
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Simply, Yes. This is something I have thought for a long time.

First of all, as a college student, you need money. Lets say a student has 15 hours of class a week. Thats 3 hours a day on average. So maybe they have class from 9am-12pm. Then its time for practice. Lets just say practice starts at 1pm. NCAA laws rule that athletic activity is allowed for 5 days a week for four hours a day. That means that practice runs from 1pm-5pm. On top of that, a student should have maybe 1-3 hours to do some school work. Now its already the evening. But one thing is missing: work.

Its nearly impossible to get a job with a schedule like that. If you're a student living away from home, you need to worry about buying books, food, clothes, and maybe paying tuition/housing if you dont have a full scholarship. These players have no way to get the money they need. On top of that, look at all the money that the NCAA and the college make because of these players. Their outstanding athletic ability bring in sponsorships such as the bowl games and TV deals with major networks. Just this year, ESPN gained the right for all the BCS games. You know the NCAA is getting good money from them. I think its only fair that the driving force behind these deals gets a cut of the money. I'm not saying to give them deals like playing in the pros, but at least compensate them for their possible unemployment.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:08 PM
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First of all, as a college student, you need money. Lets say a student has 15 hours of class a week. Thats 3 hours a day on average. So maybe they have class from 9am-12pm. Then its time for practice. Lets just say practice starts at 1pm. NCAA laws rule that athletic activity is allowed for 5 days a week for four hours a day. That means that practice runs from 1pm-5pm. On top of that, a student should have maybe 1-3 hours to do some school work. Now its already the evening. But one thing is missing: work.
They can get jobs in the summer and possibly the offseason that are approved by the NCAA. Like I said above, how are you going to make sure that all of the student athletes get equal pay? You can't can you? I see no way for it. If you can't keep pay all student athletes equally, it is a violation of Title IX since there wouldn't be equality for all athletes.

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Its nearly impossible to get a job with a schedule like that. If you're a student living away from home, you need to worry about buying books, food, clothes, and maybe paying tuition/housing if you dont have a full scholarship. These players have no way to get the money they need. On top of that, look at all the money that the NCAA and the college make because of these players. Their outstanding athletic ability bring in sponsorships such as the bowl games and TV deals with major networks. Just this year, ESPN gained the right for all the BCS games. You know the NCAA is getting good money from them. I think its only fair that the driving force behind these deals gets a cut of the money. I'm not saying to give them deals like playing in the pros, but at least compensate them for their possible unemployment.
A lot of players are playing on scholarships though. That means they are getting their tuition paid for, room and board, food, books and classes (full ride scholarship for all, partial scholarships i think get distributed however they decide it should). That's a hell of a deal right there, and if I went to a 4 year school I would definitely want that. Walk-ons may be a bigger percentage than I'm giving credit for, but you don't hear about them that often. They'll single out a few players during a broadcast and talk about how they walked on and are playing, and if they play well they can be offered a scholarship (I think Jeff Jordan had that with Illinois). Here is a scenario for you.

A guy who wants to go to school to learn, having to get a job from the university just to get by, and has to pay his own way via loans, has to look at a classmate on the football team getting paid on top of being on a free ride. What is that shit? Where would it end, since not all universities or colleges can pay their athletes? Just give the big schools the monopoly in sports since kids that can go there and be paid is better than going elsewhere and having the same experience minus getting paid.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:53 PM
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If a college's sports program is profitable, then the student athletes within that program should be given monetary compensation. Within this post, I shall focus on American collegiate football to support my argument.

A University's First And Foremost Job Is To Provide Its Students With An Education: People usually use this premise to support the argument that student athletes shouldn't be paid, but I'm going to go in a (not-so-wholly) new direction. As People's Peep already said, student athletes in the most prestigious of American football programs are given little compensation beyond a fully-paid four- to five-year education (this includes tuition, books, room, and board). What such scholarships don't take into account are the incidental costs of attending university. Although NCAA rules currently allow student athletes to have part-time jobs, where exactly would they find the time to hold down such a job? They already have classes, studying, practice, and play to worry about on a daily basis (yes, there are work-study jobs available, but the $2,000-$3,000 they pay per semester is an absolute joke).

Since universities should WANT their student-athletes to graduate with a four-year degree, they SHOULD give them some form of monetary compensation. Not doing so gives student athletes very perverse incentives to declare eligibility for a professional sport without a degree from the university they were showcased at (think about it: if you're working hard and living near the poverty line, would you opt to stay in school or would you declare eligibility for sport that guarantees you millions even if you don't play one snap?). Paying athletes gives them the relative luxury that they're entitled to and would go a long way in convincing them to stay at university to finish out their education. Even if this weren't compelling enough, however, there's still a moral reason why student athletes should be paid.

Top Collegiate American Football Programs Are Akin To Modern-Day Slave Plantations: Yes, you heard me right. A year's worth of education at America's top universities costs around $50,000 a year. Now, let's look at the profits the top collegiate American football programs made for the 2009-2010 season:

Quote:
Source:Huffington Post
1. University of Texas At Austin: $68,830,484
2. University of Georgia: $52,529,885
3. Pennsylvania State University: $50,427,645
4. University of Michigan: $44,861,184
5. University of Florida: $44,258,193
6. Louisiana State University: $43,253,286
7. University of Alabama At Tuscaloosa: $40,766,391
8. University of Tennessee: $39,236,601
9. Auburn University: $38,251,007
10. University of Oklahoma: $38,145,119
11. University of South Carolina: $35,471,948
12. University of Notre Dame: $34,672,275
Per this somewhat dated source, NCAA Division IA football programs (all of the schools I listed are Division IA programs) are allowed to give out 85 scholarships a year. Since these are profit, rather than revenue, numbers, they show that these schools make anywhere from $443,000 to $809,000 per football student athlete that they give a "full ride" (i.e., a year's worth of tuition, books, room, and board) to.

Personally, I can't think of a more exploitative situation. At the very least, student athletes that are given scholarships make these schools approximately nine times what they receive per year (when what they receive is monetized). Ultimately, though, they don't see a dime of this money. Given the windfall profits these schools make off of their student athlete's labor, I think I am right in saying that these programs are akin to modern-day slave plantations.

Conclusion: Given their objectives and the money they make off of student athletes, colleges should give their students some form of monetary compensation. While up-front payments might be deemed by some universities to be too risky, no one can put forth a tractable argument for student athletes not being able to share in their program's financial success. With this in mind, I'd recommend a compensation scheme whereby student athletes are given a percentage of their program's profits should they meet certain performance criteria (e.g., maintaining the grade-point-average mandated by the NCAA while making it to an all-conference team or breaking school records). Since the NFL's new collective bargaining agreement will more than likely place caps on rookie salaries, compensation for American football student athletes will now go further than ever in making sure that they finish their education.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:05 PM
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They can get jobs in the summer and possibly the offseason that are approved by the NCAA. Like I said above, how are you going to make sure that all of the student athletes get equal pay? You can't can you? I see no way for it. If you can't keep pay all student athletes equally, it is a violation of Title IX since there wouldn't be equality for all athletes.
Sure, they can get jobs in the summer and offseason, but that settles money needs during the summer and offseason. They may have some saved up, but its a long season and I doubt that will last them. Like I said before, I'm not saying to pay them a lot. Just give them, something like an allowance. Maybe something like $100 dollars a week. With all the money these D1 schools bring in, they certainly can cover that.

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A lot of players are playing on scholarships though. That means they are getting their tuition paid for, room and board, food, books and classes (full ride scholarship for all, partial scholarships i think get distributed however they decide it should). That's a hell of a deal right there, and if I went to a 4 year school I would definitely want that. Walk-ons may be a bigger percentage than I'm giving credit for, but you don't hear about them that often. They'll single out a few players during a broadcast and talk about how they walked on and are playing, and if they play well they can be offered a scholarship (I think Jeff Jordan had that with Illinois).
Some players on a team get full scholarships. I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure most players dont get full rides. That leaves some expenses unpaid for. Lets say a player has a car. He or she has to pay for insurance and gas. Even with a full ride, there are expenses that a person needs money for.

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A guy who wants to go to school to learn, having to get a job from the university just to get by, and has to pay his own way via loans, has to look at a classmate on the football team getting paid on top of being on a free ride. What is that shit?
I'm not saying there wouldnt be any problems. There are bound to be some difficulties such as that scenario in perfecting a system where the athletes get paid. Plus, when you look outside the scholarships in that scenario, the guy is getting paid for doing something with the university where as the athlete is not.

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Where would it end, since not all universities or colleges can pay their athletes? Just give the big schools the monopoly in sports since kids that can go there and be paid is better than going elsewhere and having the same experience minus getting paid.
Like I just said, there will be some kinks to work out. But there has to be a way. These athletes make the NCAA and the universities so much money and get none of it back, they are practically being exploited. Something has to be done.
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Old 01-09-2011, 12:40 PM
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As much as I'd like to say yes to certain situations there is just no fair way to do it so I'm going with no, college athletes should not be paid. First off the only two college sports that are really profitable for some schools are football and basketball and even with those sports not every school makes a profit from them. There are only certain schools and certain sports that could afford to do this.

With all of the rules and regulations the NCAA has I just don't see a way where only certain sports with certain schools can pay their athletes. Not only that but if the big time football programs were able to pay there students then those schools would have a leg up in recruitment. If you're coming out of a high school and have a choice between a very profitable football program, like USC, or one that is still good but doesn't make as much money, like Clemson, then you're going to go to the school that offers you the chance to make more money.

Collegiate Athletics isn't Profitable for the Most Part


I'd also like to elaborate on a point I made earlier. The majority of collegiate athletic programs LOSE money on a yearly basis. Only a handful of big time schools like Michigan, USC, Alabama, etc., make a profit every year. Even with college football probably only around half of those schools are profitable with their programs at the end of the year. So basically only half of these athletic programs in only 1 or 2 sports can afford to compensate their athletes.

Some Compensation is Already Given


Finally, although it may not seem like a lot, these athletes do get paid. They often have full ride scholarships that pay for all of their schooling, books, where they live, and food. Plus with these scholarships there is often a small amount of money left over that can be spent in any other way that is needed. So even though it isn't a lot, these athletes are actually getting paid a small amount to play their particular sport.

Conclusion


In conclusion even though I'd love to say "pay certain athletes in the profitable programs because they deserve it," there is just no real fair way to do it without messing up things like recruiting and the parity in college football or basketball. There is also no way to make it fair for all schools because for the most part collegiate athletics are not profitable on the whole.
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Old 01-09-2011, 01:24 PM
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Sure, they can get jobs in the summer and offseason, but that settles money needs during the summer and offseason. They may have some saved up, but its a long season and I doubt that will last them. Like I said before, I'm not saying to pay them a lot. Just give them, something like an allowance. Maybe something like $100 dollars a week. With all the money these D1 schools bring in, they certainly can cover that.
Those are just the big universities, and mainly for football and basketball. Baseball, hockey, tennis and the many other sports offered in colleges and universities don't make as much money as they do. How would you make it so that every student athlete would get money every week? Cut shares from each sports individual profit? Wouldn't be equal for the other sports that don't make as much money.

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Some players on a team get full scholarships. I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure most players dont get full rides. That leaves some expenses unpaid for. Lets say a player has a car. He or she has to pay for insurance and gas. Even with a full ride, there are expenses that a person needs money for.
That's if they have a car. I know people that went off to college and didn't take their cars. Not saying people don't, but how many people really do? Now even if a student gets a partial scholarship, they can distribute and take out loans for the rest of their expenses. Plus that's still better than Joe Blow who couldn't get an academic scholarship and has to pay his whole way, via loans most likely. What other expenses would a full ride athlete (without car) have other than maybe new clothes?

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I'm not saying there wouldnt be any problems. There are bound to be some difficulties such as that scenario in perfecting a system where the athletes get paid. Plus, when you look outside the scholarships in that scenario, the guy is getting paid for doing something with the university where as the athlete is not.
Because he has to to pay for everything. He is making between possibly 8.50 (I think that's minimum wage) and maybe $10 an hour so he can get his education.

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Like I just said, there will be some kinks to work out. But there has to be a way. These athletes make the NCAA and the universities so much money and get none of it back, they are practically being exploited. Something has to be done.
Some kinks? You have to make sure there are none if you are to go forward with this. That simply won't happen because of all of the schools and all of the athletic programs at each school. Each athlete needs to be paid equally, and when you have hundreds if not thousands of athletes, that is a lot of money to be giving out.

As far as exploitation goes, some colleges actually have their student athletes sign forms for full imagery benefits. The forms are so the students can't sue the university. They could always, you know, not sign the forms. But then they don't play. They agree to it for their future to possibly play in the pros, not for the now of getting paid on top of a full ride scholarship.
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:11 PM
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Sure, they can get jobs in the summer and offseason, but that settles money needs during the summer and offseason. They may have some saved up, but its a long season and I doubt that will last them. Like I said before, I'm not saying to pay them a lot. Just give them, something like an allowance. Maybe something like $100 dollars a week. With all the money these D1 schools bring in, they certainly can cover that.
Barely any D1 schools' athletic departments have a positive profit at the end of the year. Even football, the biggest money making sport for most schools, doesn't bring in profits for all schools. It's only around half of the schools maybe a few more that turn a positive profit. What do all the other programs do?
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Some players on a team get full scholarships. I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure most players dont get full rides. That leaves some expenses unpaid for. Lets say a player has a car. He or she has to pay for insurance and gas. Even with a full ride, there are expenses that a person needs money for.
Any player that's worthy of getting paid has a full ride scholarship. Some walk on back up safety isn't the reason a program is making money. Also with full ride scholarships not every cent goes to room/board, books, and classes. There's also some extra spending money on top of it. Nothing major but it's something.
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