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  #111  
Old 06-10-2017, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Corbyn does not deserve a chance to be PM.

He ran a decent, basic, traditional Labour campaign offering hope, but against the worst performing PM in living memory, with a tragically bad campaign strategy, he still came a distant second.
He doesn't deserve to be prime minister now or he doesn't deserve to go into the next election as leader of the party?

If it's now: obviously. He and McDonnell suggesting Labour form a minority government is just a way to prod the Conservative Party and inflate the scale of Labour's achievement. Only those with basically no understanding of politics (e.g. a handful of my Facebook friends) think that a Labour minority government supported by other parties on a vote by vote basis is remotely feasible.

If it's next election: he's blatantly not going anywhere - and, if he is, it's because he's confident that the votes for a younger Corbynista with cleaner hands can be secured - and it would appear that his opponents within the party are happy to line up behind him. Let's not pretend that he had everything going in his favour going into this election, despite Theresa May taking every opportunity to look like a malfunctioning android. A rabid right wing press is something that you can't change (or at least not if you're from the part of the political spectrum that Corbyn is) but a disunited party and a reputation as an incompetent... apparently you just might.

"Distant second" is also quite harsh. The fear before the election was that Labour would rack up the votes in safe seats and lose seats as their vote share grew. As it happened, their vote share grew and their seat share grew as well, but they still have lots of votes locked away in seats where they're surplus to requirements. They secured a ten point swing, only came 2.4% behind the Tories in the national vote and established an electoral map that is substantially more favourable than the one they had heading in. I'll concede that to win an election in the UK one has to win within first past the post and be subject to all its bullshit whims, but Labour's in a much better position to do so now than it was even in 2015.

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Maybe someone in the know can answer a question for me. Here in Canada the party with the most seats in the House of Parliament is the majority, of course. The leader of that party becomes the Prime Minister, aka Justin Trudeau right now. The party with the next highest amount of seats becomes the minority and everyone else falls in line behind them.

How is it that May can have a minority in Parliament and still be Prime Minister? You would have thought that losing seats and becoming the minority, she would have had to step down and the majority leader take over the reigns.
There is no majority leader. May's Conservative Party is the largest party in Parliament despite failing to secure an outright majority. It's not unprecedented, even in post-war history - Harold Wilson formed a minority government in February 1974 (although there was another election called in October of that year, in which Wilson was returned with a majority). Providing May can secure enough votes (this is where the DUP comes in) she could be Prime Minister for another five years (spoiler: she won't be).

I'll not pretend to have the slightest inkling about how Canadian Parliament works but, on the basis that most parliaments are based on British Parliament, I'd imagine the principles would apply there as well.
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Last edited by Uncle Sam : 06-10-2017 at 06:53 AM.
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  #112  
Old 06-10-2017, 08:30 AM
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Labour did better than expected, but we cannot pretend that that was any kind of victory. They still lost and lost comprehensively in an election that in the end was there for the taking.

And vote share is not a great way to judge anything - by that measure, Theresa May is the most successful Tory leader since Margaret Thatcher with her 44% of the vote.
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  #113  
Old 06-10-2017, 02:19 PM
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Fair point.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tu Papi, KJ View Post
Murdering him was obviously the wrong course of action, but it certainly wasn't unprovoked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lariat of Doom View Post
No one can be that big of a cunt and obnoxious and be an American.
Quote:
Originally Posted by klunderbunker View Post
When all else fails, clench.
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  #114  
Old 06-10-2017, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
Labour did better than expected, but we cannot pretend that that was any kind of victory. They still lost and lost comprehensively in an election that in the end was there for the taking.

And vote share is not a great way to judge anything - by that measure, Theresa May is the most successful Tory leader since Margaret Thatcher with her 44% of the vote.
Looking at the general mood of the country right now, the way the media portrayed him and the fact that Labour themselves were an absolute mess last year trying to oust him, it could have been a lot worse.

The fact that the Tories are now in disarray and Theresa May is now a dead woman walking I'm content. There is no way he can run a full term and this coalition shows her for the absolute spineless joke that she is.

Any true leader would step down after that absolute shambles. This election was put on to show how big her balls were and it backfired spectacularly. Now we jut have to sit and wait.
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  #115  
Old 06-10-2017, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Sam View Post
There is no majority leader. May's Conservative Party is the largest party in Parliament despite failing to secure an outright majority. It's not unprecedented, even in post-war history - Harold Wilson formed a minority government in February 1974 (although there was another election called in October of that year, in which Wilson was returned with a majority). Providing May can secure enough votes (this is where the DUP comes in) she could be Prime Minister for another five years (spoiler: she won't be).

I'll not pretend to have the slightest inkling about how Canadian Parliament works but, on the basis that most parliaments are based on British Parliament, I'd imagine the principles would apply there as well.
Okay I had to go and look it up. The Canadian Parliament is made up of the Queen, The House of Commons and the Senate. Bills are introduced in the House of Commons and put into law by the Senate.

The Prime Minister is the head of the House of Commons. He or she is the leader of the party in power (in other words the party with the most seats in the House of Commons). Our Prime Minister would never be from the party with a minority of seats. So that's why I asked the questions. If Justin Trudeau loses his majority in the next election, then he must step down and the leader of the new majority party would be sworn in as PM. Now my head is about to explode.
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  #116  
Old 06-10-2017, 06:42 PM
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But what if there is no majority?

Or by 'majority', do you mean 'most seats'?
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  #117  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Барбоса View Post
But what if there is no majority?

Or by 'majority', do you mean 'most seats'?
Yes that's what I mean. Whichever party Liberal, Democrat or NDP holds the most seats, the leader of that party becomes the Prime Minister. On a sidenote, we don't get to vote for the PM, we vote for our member of Parliament that's it.
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  #118  
Old 06-10-2017, 07:49 PM
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There are 650 seats to take. To get a majority you need 326. Conservatives fell short of that getting 318. That's resulted in a hung parliament. That leaves 3 choices. A minority government, a re-election or a coalition. The Conservatives formed a coalition with the DUP who had 10 seats. Now we have the Coalition of Union Nationalists and Tories. C.U.N.T.
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  #119  
Old 06-11-2017, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Navi View Post
Yes that's what I mean. Whichever party Liberal, Democrat or NDP holds the most seats, the leader of that party becomes the Prime Minister. On a sidenote, we don't get to vote for the PM, we vote for our member of Parliament that's it.
Same on the PM here. We don't technically vote for PM, only our local MP.

It seems largely similar to Britain although with some crucial differences. The number of Canadian MPs seems to be in flux all the time as certain provinces and groups must always be represented. Party lines in parliament seem so much more strict, with MPs frequently expelled for not voting the way they are told.

Given that there is such a thing as a minority government and even a coalition against that minority, it must be possible, however rare, for the leader of the largest party in Canada to not be Prime Minister after a vote of no confidence.
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  #120  
Old 06-11-2017, 02:31 PM
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Votes per MP

Greens 525,371
Lib Dems 197,647
Labour 49,141
Cons 42,978
Plaid Cymru 41,116
Sinn Fein 34,130
DUP 29,231
SNP 27,930

UKIP had more votes than Greens but no representation.
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