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  #1  
Old 03-21-2018, 07:32 AM
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Default Do Heels always have to cheat to win?

What do you guys think? ‪Do heels always have to cheat? Is there a law that Heels can't beat babyfaces clean.

It's just Sometimes I get tired of Singh brothers helping Jinder win ALL his matches and mistourage always helping Miz win all his matches. Seriously, have they even won a match clean without their heel cronies helping them win.

I feel like heels CAN cheat but every match just makes me question how legit they are as competitors.
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  #2  
Old 03-21-2018, 07:35 AM
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I would say yes they have to because that's the definition of a Heel in wrestling. If the bad guy doesn't find a way to win in a dirty matter then all you got left is a babyface trying to look like a heel.
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Old 03-21-2018, 08:54 AM
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No, but it really depends on how over they are on their own.

When someone works well as a heel, it's mainly because they do a great job of making the crowd like their opponent. For storytelling purposes, the heel has to win every now and then. Getting a top face to lay down for a top heel in a big money match clean is a no-go in almost every situation, the only responsible exception would be if you have someone who's a bonafide champion like Ric Flair or a bonafide monster like Brock Lesnar.

Heel's use underlings because, by nature, they're in denial about how terrified they are of their untouchable face opponents. Heel's also break the rules because, by nature, they don't care if they win fairly. At the moment, Jinder and Miz are not established enough as wrestlers in general to be able to justify having them beat someone like Bobby Roode or Finn Balor. Jinder and Miz are amazing heels mind you, probably the best heels in the WWE right now along with Baron.
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  #4  
Old 03-21-2018, 09:05 AM
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No they do not and that is what is frustrating with many of the heels today. Now back in the day there was heels that cheated alot to win and there were heels that may cheat here and there, but not alot and were just badass dudes that would win until they went up against a big babyface and then they would lose or have to cheat to win. I myself prefer the latter, as I like when there is a dominant heel that will win clean because when they face that top babyface and the babyface wins, it makes it that more special because the heel had a lot of credibility.

Jinder sucks and should never have been WWE champion. I'm fine with them giving him a push however, the US title is where he should've been all along and he should've never went over Shinsuke. If anything, Shinsuke should've won the title from Orton and been the champ all along and AJ should've won the Rumble and then won back the title at Mania. Give guys pushes, that's fine, but when did we ever see a jobber like Jinder go from that status to WWE champ within a month or two. This guy at last year's Mania was being made a fool of by Mojo Rawley of all people and Rob Gronkowski. Back in the day, you built guys up through IC title feuds and then when they were getting bigger, pushed them into the main event spotlight.

Sorry, got off on a tangent there. Anyways, I think a good example of a heel who can be dominant and not cheat to win in WWE right now is Samoa Joe. My god does he need to get healthy and get over to SD where he can wreak havoc and hopefully challenge for WWE championship or at least win US title and bring prominence to that title which is sorely lacking right now
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  #5  
Old 03-21-2018, 09:51 AM
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If they're on the same level as the face, yeah they do.

The basic idea of face vs. heel is very simple: the face is the one who can win straight up while the heel, who may be talented, cheats to win because it's the easier and less honorable path. Of course you can change that for certain stories, but that's the gist of wrestling psychology. The fans want to see a fair match and if one person cheats, they're bad. In a fair fight, the good one is supposed to win because they're the noble one who belongs at the top through pure skill.

Simply put, if you don't cheat, you're not the heel in a match. You're the person who is fighting the face.
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  #6  
Old 03-21-2018, 12:03 PM
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They don't have to. They just also happen to have this option. As KB said, if a heel is on a higher tier than the face, they shouldn't cheat. If they're on the same tier, they should cheat and if the face is above them, then they should do absolutely anything in order to win.

Here's a good example. I think Edge defeated Rey Mysterio clean at the 2008 Royal Rumble. At the same night, Randy Orton also defeated Jeff Hardy clean. Why? Because Orton and Edge > Jeff and Rey at that point. However they both needed heel tacticts to prevail against Undertaker and Cena/HHH. That for me, was perfect heel booking.

But not all heels should cheat. Monster heels shouldn't cheat. A monster heel should win his matches clean. What seperates a monster heel from a face though, is that he will brutalize his opponent before or after the match and maybe during the match. A face should never brutalize his opponent in order to cause him a severe injury. And that's a problem with today's wrestling.

Cena was an absolute asshole/heel back in 2010. He defeated Batista with a freaking ducktape in a Last MAN Standing match. He almost killed Batista in their I Quit match, even though he had won. He constantly bullied the Nexus. Broke his own word and didn't retire and then almost killed Wade Barrett even though Nexus was officialy over.

So to sum up, a heel isn't only decided upon cheating. Character, post-match behaviour, how they take a loss, how they treat a victory, trash-talk, crowd interractions, storyline, unethical desicions. All of these aspects are what make a heel. Cheating is just a part that exists mostly to protect the face, rather than to give the heel actual heat.

But as I said, a heel should cheat when it's needed and he should be his own man, when he can.
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  #7  
Old 03-22-2018, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.
They don't have to. They just also happen to have this option. As KB said, if a heel is on a higher tier than the face, they shouldn't cheat. If they're on the same tier, they should cheat and if the face is above them, then they should do absolutely anything in order to win.

Here's a good example. I think Edge defeated Rey Mysterio clean at the 2008 Royal Rumble. At the same night, Randy Orton also defeated Jeff Hardy clean. Why? Because Orton and Edge > Jeff and Rey at that point. However they both needed heel tacticts to prevail against Undertaker and Cena/HHH. That for me, was perfect heel booking.

But not all heels should cheat. Monster heels shouldn't cheat. A monster heel should win his matches clean. What seperates a monster heel from a face though, is that he will brutalize his opponent before or after the match and maybe during the match. A face should never brutalize his opponent in order to cause him a severe injury. And that's a problem with today's wrestling.

Cena was an absolute asshole/heel back in 2010. He defeated Batista with a freaking ducktape in a Last MAN Standing match. He almost killed Batista in their I Quit match, even though he had won. He constantly bullied the Nexus. Broke his own word and didn't retire and then almost killed Wade Barrett even though Nexus was officialy over.

So to sum up, a heel isn't only decided upon cheating. Character, post-match behaviour, how they take a loss, how they treat a victory, trash-talk, crowd interractions, storyline, unethical decisions. All of these aspects are what make a heel. Cheating is just a part that exists mostly to protect the face, rather than to give the heel actual heat.

But as I said, a heel should cheat when it's needed and he should be his own man, when he can.
This nails it but yeah they donít have to cheat although a cheat here or there can advance storylines/feuds.
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  #8  
Old 03-30-2018, 07:00 AM
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Yeah I agree too much cheater leads to less credibility
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  #9  
Old 03-31-2018, 07:06 PM
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It is typical for heels to cheat but its not a rule, I can't remember seeing a lot of cheating from a heel Brock Lesnar for example or even Kurt Angle when he was a heel, The whole part of Eddie Guerrero's good guy character was cheat to win. So its not always the way.
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