WWE & TNA Forum
Wrestling News
Loading...


Go Back   WrestleZone Forums > Wrestling - Non Spam Sections > Old School Wrestling
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Arcade vBookie

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 02-06-2017, 07:02 AM
LBGetBack LBGetBack is offline
Registered User
WWE Women's Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 928
LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentless1 View Post
the question was IMPACT, who had the most impact. Savage unquestionably had the greater career and was undoubtedly the better wrester but Nash being the cornerstone of the nWo was more impactful on the industry as a whole than anything Savage ever did.
Nash wasn't the cornerstone of the NWO.....Hogan was. It's like y'all weren't even there.

Nash was just a spoke in the wheel. He ain't nobody.
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-06-2017, 07:26 AM
George Steele's Barber's Avatar
George Steele's Barber George Steele's Barber is offline
Advertise Here $9.95/month
United States Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,673
George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...George Steele's Barber is a United States Champion...
Default

Randy Savage had more of an impact as he is the one so many young people strive to be as a wrestler. Few strive to be Kevin Nash. It hurts that there are not a ton of 7 footers out there but it doesn't change the fact that so many people want to jump off the top rope, be the bad guy that gets the prettiest girl, and act a little insane at times.

Otherwise their careers are kind of a wash. Nash had a not so memorable run as champ and the NWO run. Savage had a not so memorable run as champ, the Mega Powers, and his own WCW run. Both were the most memorable in Hogan's shadow. That is why I look at Savage's impact on the in-ring product as the category that puts him over the edge in history. I think this is also what will continue his mark in the future along with the fact that WM III will continue to be a go to greatest match ever candidate.
__________________
GSB Observation #8675309 - I've never seen Samoa Joe and Manny from Modern Family in the same room at the same time, coincidence?
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-06-2017, 11:02 AM
Makaveli31's Avatar
Makaveli31 Makaveli31 is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 539
Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

There is so much misinformation in this thread it's hard to keep. Let me set this straight. First of all let me ask this question. more of an IMPACT where? On the BUSINESS or IN THE RING?

If the answer is BUSINESS and economics of the business there is no question it's KEVIN NASH. When we look at the business of pro wrestling before and after the "infamous" jump by Hall and Nash it's night and day. I would even argue it had a bigger impact that Vince going national in the early '80's because while Vince was a national promotion he still could not gain any traction in the southern portion of the U.S. Same with WCW. They were still very much a regional promotion consolidating most of their shows in the South. WCW didn't turn a profit until 1995 or 1996 and even with Hogan and Savage they were considered second to the WWF. Vince was struggling throughout the early 1990's. Then Hall and Nash jumped to WCW and BOOM pro wrestling EXPLODED.

Everything not only jumped but skyrocketed exponentially. Hall and Nash ushered in the "Monday Night Wars" when both RAW and NITRO were the most popular shows on cable television and even outdrawing Monday Night Football on ABC. They turned pro wrestling from a Saturday morning/afternoon show into a Monday night prime time show. Pro wrestling became most successful with the coveted 18-35 year old male demographic and it showed. Merchandise sales skyrocketed. They were able to cross over into the mainstream. The first time since the '80's pro wrestler's were able to do that. WCW went from being the "bastard child" nobody wanted to now the hottest thing at Turner/Time Warner.

Vince and the WWF had to take notice. All of sudden Vince was giving out guaranteed contracts and locking up all his top stars to real contracts something he had never done before. Hall and Nash ushered in the REAL "Attitude" Era. Nash had plans on being a "tweener" before leaving the WWF. Fans were cheering when he brutally attacked Bret Hart after Survivor Series 1995. Fans loved the "heel" Diesel. He tried to convince McMahon to turn him heel as WWF Champion but it didn't work now Nash was reaping the benefits in WCW.

Hogan was NOT the cornerstone of the NWO. The reason WHY the NWO was successful was because of the charisma of Hall and Nash. People LOVED the heelish outlaw image yet they were "cool" at the same time. Hogan was never that. Fans viewed Hall and Nash as badasses even when they lost. Hogan was just a coward. Of course this all led to the "Attitude Era" in the WWF and someone named Stone Cold (a good friend of Nash's) who saw the success the NWO was having in WCW. The WWF and WCW were at "war" and EVERYONE was reaping the benefits....wrestlers, fans, the promotions themselves. It was a GREAT time to be a wrestling fan and it all started with Scott Hall and Kevin Nash.

So who had more IMPACT? Overall it was Kevin Nash. The success he had in the business is EASILY top five. A master politician who worked his way from "bodyguard" to booker. When you think of wrestling at it's greatest height Kevin Nash is right there in the middle.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-06-2017, 11:11 AM
Makaveli31's Avatar
Makaveli31 Makaveli31 is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 539
Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
You're seemingly forgetting that Hogan's shocking turn is what really made the NWO....and he turned by legdropping Savage. Savage was one of their major foes early on, and then he joined and was basically only below Hogan in importance to the group at that point.
What MADE the NWO was Scott Hall and Kevin Nash appearing on Monday Nitro when everyone thought they were still in the WWF. Hogan turning heel was big but it just added to what Hall and Nash started.

Quote:
Honestly, even though Nash and Hall started the whole thing and Nash was a constant key presence.....you could've replaced him with a lot of guys and the whole thing still would've worked. It was the story itself, and Hogan's turn that really made the whole thing take off.
_____________
This comment made me LOL. Kevin Nash replaceable?!? By who?!? No one had the charisma of Nash. He was a natural born leader. He was on the same level as Hogan by that time. The NWO needed it's cornerstones Hogan, Hall, and Nash. Neither of those guys were replaceable. As much as I love Randy Savage, his presence did not do anything for the NWO and vice versa the NWO did nothing for Randy Savage.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-06-2017, 11:20 AM
Makaveli31's Avatar
Makaveli31 Makaveli31 is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 539
Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Anybody who followed the NWO realizes it was Scott Hall who made the Outsiders tick. When Hall was out of action, Nash was always stale. Nash was always along for the ride. He couldn't carry a company, not even close. He was just a big tall Roman Reigns of his time. He had absolutely nothing on Randy Savage - the greatest wrestling entertainer of all time besides maybe Shawn Michaels. And Savage's year in the New World Order was far more memorable than anything Kevin Nash did in his career..What was Nash's most memorable career moment? Beating Bob Backlund in a squash match? Booking himself to beat Goldberg's streak in a controversial ending? The fingerpoke of doom moment which led to the downfall of WCW? Seriously. What defines Nash? Nothing. Just his affiliation with people who were charismatic. Savage's charisma and character and wrestling ability were off the charts.
It was Hall AND Nash that made the OUTSIDERS. Both men played off each other so well. Both had humor but Nash was the more serious of the two. You could tell Nash was the alpha in that pairing. Of course being near 7 foot tall helps but you need leadership qualities. The Giant for instance did not posses those same qualities.

Nash could not carry company? Who says he needed too? He was an integral piece of a group that carried WCW in it's most successful years. He then was able to distinguish himself both on screen and off by rising to leader of his own successful faction (Wolfpac) and becoming booker in 1999. Savage did have a memorable feud with Dallas Page but Nash also had his fair share of memorable feuds. The Giant and the Steiners being two. Now that being said, were Savage's matches with Page more memorable than Nash's of course but both were still very memorable in their own right.

What defines Nash is his leadership. He started as a bodyguard to Shawn Michaels who rose to become WWF Champion. He was a leader of the "clique". Vince came to him for ideas. He parlayed that into influence in WCW. Nash is a polarizing figure no question but his IMPACT can't be denied.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-06-2017, 11:28 AM
Makaveli31's Avatar
Makaveli31 Makaveli31 is offline
Registered User
WWE Diva's Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 539
Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...Makaveli31 is looking to come up from OCW...
Default

Quote:
Replace Nash in the NWO with....take your pick.....Sid, Vader, HBK, Taker, Hart, etc. and it still works just the same.
Are you kidding me?!? Sid?!? LOL. Sid had no where NEAR the charisma of Nash. He flaed out as a member of the Horsemen because he could not talk. Sid was intense. Nash was cool which is what the NWO was. They didn't sweat anything or anyone and even if they did they would not show it. Sid is opposite. Always screaming and yelling. Not a fit for the NWO.

Again Bret. No where near the speaking skills of Nash. Bret was a leader also his style would have clashed with Hogan's (as we saw when Bret went to WCW) Nash's style played off of Hogan's well, same goes for HBK.

'Taker was a loner. No faction for him.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 02-06-2017, 11:56 AM
Spidey 2 Tidy's Avatar
Spidey 2 Tidy Spidey 2 Tidy is online now
It's A Dead Man's Party
ROH Pure Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: UA Little Rock
Age: 27
Posts: 1,559
Spidey 2 Tidy is a Television Champion...Spidey 2 Tidy is a Television Champion...Spidey 2 Tidy is a Television Champion...Spidey 2 Tidy is a Television Champion...Spidey 2 Tidy is a Television Champion...Spidey 2 Tidy is a Television Champion...Spidey 2 Tidy is a Television Champion...Spidey 2 Tidy is a Television Champion...Spidey 2 Tidy is a Television Champion...Spidey 2 Tidy is a Television Champion...Spidey 2 Tidy is a Television Champion...
Send a message via Skype™ to Spidey 2 Tidy
Default

Kevin Nash was champion when wrestling was at a lull. Randy Savage split the spotlight with Hulk Hogan from time to time. Nash was integral to the NWO just as much as Scott Hall. Are we to argue that Hall has made more of an impact than Savage? Because that's absurd. Kevin Nash booked himself wisely throughout his career, but Macho Madness was loved by the fans when wrestling was popular. This isn't even an argument on who is the better wrestler, because Savage obviously. This is about impact in wrestling history, which is still Savage.

Oh yeah.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Kerouac - On The Road
Whither goest thou, America, in thy shiny car in the night?
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 02-06-2017, 12:03 PM
THTRobtaylor's Avatar
THTRobtaylor THTRobtaylor is offline
Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist
NWA Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,063
THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...THTRobtaylor is getting some looks on Smackdown...
Default

The answer is BOTH affected the business, in many ways more than other wrestlers ever did.

Savage was the first guy to carry the WWF instead of Hogan, and he proved not only could it be done, but could be done with no perceivable drop in quality or business for having a "smaller" champion. While it was never a long term gig for him, Randy hit the markers set for him during those two title runs.

Those quoting Nash's switch as his impact, incorrect... Savage jumped first... remember Hogan was a free agent for a while when he signed to WCW. Savage was under contract to WWF, it expired and he signed.. he was pretty much gone from WWF within a week. Remember that awkward "goodbye" from Vince... no other wrestler who jumped ship ever got that.

While he may not have debuted in the same way as Nash and Hall, it was the first time a BIG name had publically told Vince and the WWF, "Thank's but no thanks, I'll go to WCW" even Luger did it before Nash and Hall... and he was on a WWF PPV the night before. When you think about it, Nash and Hall had been off WWF TV for a while, with Nash's last act being to take the Tombstone... Savage was there one week, gone the next... as was Luger. It was a shock to see then in WCW, but it's tenuous and self aggrandizing on all their parts to actually say people thought they were WWF contracted then.

Where Nash and Hall made the impact on the BUSINESS is one simple thing. Safe Harbour.

Forget the guaranteed contracts for a moment, Nash and Hall had something known as Safe Harbour and were the first to have it. That meant if WCW hired ANYONE or gave ANYONE a new deal that was bigger than theirs, they HAD to be given the same...automatically. When WCW were offering Bret 3m a year... that meant they were offering Hall and Nash 3m a year too... When Goldberg was getting 5m... so were they...

That was arguably the single biggest mistake WCW/Eric ever made... as once they had it, all the players had to have it and you created a situation where a payrise for one, was a payrise for all.

Today there is a version of it in WWE - No one will be able to get "more" on a basic contract than Cena and Taker... no one will get a bigger cut of their image rights than those two either...so they sign Brock or Goldberg to silly money, that means Cena and Taker are getting a bump.

But make no mistake both Savage and Nash have equal claim and impact - just in different ways and times that changed the business forever.

If you're talking in ring career? Then on balance I'm afraid Nash gets the nod, by virtue of his meteoric rise, number of titles and angles involved in. Savage had a GREAT career, but at it's peak he had the same 1 year as the top guy in the WWF - he lost to Hogan, Nash beat Michaels... Sure Randy got a second title at Mania, but it was clearly a "goodbye" in Vince's eyes.

Where Savage had the "better" career is in terms of body of work. You can point to Savage and say he did better in the ring for longer than Nash did... but ultimately there were many years of toil and drudgery when he was passed his best and on his way to the top. The Macho King time was pretty tepid... as was his latter NWO runs and TNA... As good as his early stuff was, he didn't hit WWF stride until the Steamboat feud...

Nash condensed his career into a shorter time but did more in that time.
__________________

Last edited by THTRobtaylor : 02-06-2017 at 12:10 PM.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 02-06-2017, 12:04 PM
TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP's Avatar
TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP is offline
Future Endeavored
Comedy Jobber For Life: AKA Santino
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 231
TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP is a member of the JOB SQUAD
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Get In The Bag, Spidey View Post
Kevin Nash was champion when wrestling was at a lull. Randy Savage split the spotlight with Hulk Hogan from time to time. Nash was integral to the NWO just as much as Scott Hall. Are we to argue that Hall has made more of an impact than Savage? Because that's absurd. Kevin Nash booked himself wisely throughout his career, but Macho Madness was loved by the fans when wrestling was popular. This isn't even an argument on who is the better wrestler, because Savage obviously. This is about impact in wrestling history, which is still Savage.

Oh yeah.
Spidey, wrestling to great five-star matches can only get you so far in the card. Character, Charisma and Gimmick are what sells tickets to draw more fans in the seats. There's a reason why I stand by Kevin Nash's Vanilla Midgets remark, which does hold a ring of truth to what Nash said.

Sports Entertainment Wrestling died when people like Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero were World Champions. To fit the description of legitimately credible World Champions, you gotta be either a hulking big man or a charming medium sized guy. American sports enthusiasts want bigger and tougher athletes like back in the day, not smaller, weaker and babyish athletes like today.

In my case, I think Sports Entertainment Wrestling died when people like Seth Rollins, Finn Balor, A.J. Styles, Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn have the WWE built around them, rather than building around Roman Reigns.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 02-06-2017, 12:06 PM
LBGetBack LBGetBack is offline
Registered User
WWE Women's Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 928
LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...LBGetBack scored a win over Santino Marella...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli31 View Post
There is so much misinformation in this thread it's hard to keep. Let me set this straight. First of all let me ask this question. more of an IMPACT where? On the BUSINESS or IN THE RING?

If the answer is BUSINESS and economics of the business there is no question it's KEVIN NASH. When we look at the business of pro wrestling before and after the "infamous" jump by Hall and Nash it's night and day. I would even argue it had a bigger impact that Vince going national in the early '80's because while Vince was a national promotion he still could not gain any traction in the southern portion of the U.S. Same with WCW. They were still very much a regional promotion consolidating most of their shows in the South. WCW didn't turn a profit until 1995 or 1996 and even with Hogan and Savage they were considered second to the WWF. Vince was struggling throughout the early 1990's. Then Hall and Nash jumped to WCW and BOOM pro wrestling EXPLODED.

Everything not only jumped but skyrocketed exponentially. Hall and Nash ushered in the "Monday Night Wars" when both RAW and NITRO were the most popular shows on cable television and even outdrawing Monday Night Football on ABC. They turned pro wrestling from a Saturday morning/afternoon show into a Monday night prime time show. Pro wrestling became most successful with the coveted 18-35 year old male demographic and it showed. Merchandise sales skyrocketed. They were able to cross over into the mainstream. The first time since the '80's pro wrestler's were able to do that. WCW went from being the "bastard child" nobody wanted to now the hottest thing at Turner/Time Warner.

Vince and the WWF had to take notice. All of sudden Vince was giving out guaranteed contracts and locking up all his top stars to real contracts something he had never done before. Hall and Nash ushered in the REAL "Attitude" Era. Nash had plans on being a "tweener" before leaving the WWF. Fans were cheering when he brutally attacked Bret Hart after Survivor Series 1995. Fans loved the "heel" Diesel. He tried to convince McMahon to turn him heel as WWF Champion but it didn't work now Nash was reaping the benefits in WCW.

Hogan was NOT the cornerstone of the NWO. The reason WHY the NWO was successful was because of the charisma of Hall and Nash. People LOVED the heelish outlaw image yet they were "cool" at the same time. Hogan was never that. Fans viewed Hall and Nash as badasses even when they lost. Hogan was just a coward. Of course this all led to the "Attitude Era" in the WWF and someone named Stone Cold (a good friend of Nash's) who saw the success the NWO was having in WCW. The WWF and WCW were at "war" and EVERYONE was reaping the benefits....wrestlers, fans, the promotions themselves. It was a GREAT time to be a wrestling fan and it all started with Scott Hall and Kevin Nash.

So who had more IMPACT? Overall it was Kevin Nash. The success he had in the business is EASILY top five. A master politician who worked his way from "bodyguard" to booker. When you think of wrestling at it's greatest height Kevin Nash is right there in the middle.
You complain about misinformation, then proceed to add more. WCW did better ratings after Hogan joined NWO than they did when it was just Hall and Nash.

Hogan was the champion and the top guy. Cornerstone. This is not debatable. It's not about your opinion on who was "cooler". It's about who was actually booked as the top guy and leader of the group. Hogan's turn took what was a cool and interesting and groundbreaking angle to another level.
__________________
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"
Contact Us - Clear Cookies - Lost Password - WrestleZone Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Top - AdChoices