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  #1  
Old 02-01-2017, 10:34 PM
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Default Who were the potential troublemakers post-WCW Buyout?

Full Q: "Who were the potential troublemakers post-WCW buyout and to determine who would be the ones to carry too much risk far more than the other potential troublemakers?"

Two things worked against the success of the angle in terms of WWE's ability to get legit stars to add credibility to The Invasion angle. The guaranteed contracts were one problem. Why should a Kevin Nash or Bill Goldberg jump to sign when they could collect on their Time Warner deals, waiting till their was more interest in them individually, giving them the upper advantage for contractual negotiations for a return. Second. a certain number of WCW's top stars were viewed as major risks, guys the WWF wasn't crazy about adding to their roster due to their behind the scenes issues.

-1) Diamond Dallas Page: Only main event-caliber star that WWF immediately obtained after being purchased from his Time Warner deal.

-2) Booker T: Career tag team wrestler with a brief fling in the upper midcard in 1998. His rise to the main event was viewed by fans as WCW being devoid of main event talent that Booker got to have his fill by default. In a good company, that would've never happened.

-3) "Big Poppa Pump" Scott Steiner: Extreme bad reputation for disrespecting the talent and being an overall jerkass who lost his wrestling ability to steroids, being a divisive locker room/backstage cancer, left WWF on bad terms before in 1994 when Vince tried to get Scott to go singles without Rick only for Scott to refuse then have a shouting match with Vince, engaged in violent behavior with Diamond Dallas Page, cut an unauthorized shoot promo on Ric Flair, sexually harassed Kimberly and comes off as a ruthless, cold-blooded bar brawler with little to no morals, and safe to say, Scott was (and probably still is, to this day or maybe forever) an inhumane rapid-fire insult machine. Maybe he was the clown that wasn't as funny as Hall.

-4) Scott Hall: Drug and alcohol issues dogging him for the majority of his WCW tenure, lost his family in 1998 when he got divorced which worsened his alcoholism, previously worked backstage with The Kliq, allegedly threatening to show up to shows intoxicated unless he gets his way even though Hall doesn't even care enough to play politics like his Kliq contemporaries (ie: Triple H, Shawn Michaels and Kevin Nash) and is more of a troublemaker in the fun way, provided you don't force Hall to co-exist specifically with the Dudley Boyz and Michael P.S. Hayes, and Hall was never about the championships as much as he was about the valuable paychecks, but assuming Hall's alcoholism was under control, he probably would've had the most upside as an all-around performer, in charisma, on the mic and in the ring, and thus Hall would still have been a better wrestler than Savage and Steiner since Hall's style was safer and maybe sloppy but not a total stiff in the ring like Hogan, Nash, Savage, Steiner, Goldberg and Luger.

-5) Bret "The Hitman" Hart: Assuming Bret had never ended up with a career-ending concussion at the hands of Goldberg, he would still be a risk because Bret left the WWF on terrible terms in 1997 after being forced out of the WWF with the Montreal Screwjob in which he was told to lose to Shawn Michaels on his way out to WCW, made a claim to have spent 14 years in a row working with the WWF with zero time off, working through injuries and wrestling a safe style hence his ironman reputation for being a model citizen and tireless worker, was outspoken with the Attitude Era's themes of smut, sex and racism by expressing his disdain for the Attitude on talk shows, and even though the WWF Attitude Era was long over, there's no guarantee that Ruthless Aggression would've been any different despite the slight downgrade in sex, blood and nudity and outright censorship of racism, was considered by some to be a pain in the ass backstage during his final year with the WWF, and leveraged WCW to get Vince to keep him with a 20-year contract for far less money than when WCW tried to offer Bret more money, but the best of Bret would be that although he was only a decent promo guy when given something half-decent to talk about, Bret was at his best when he goes out there to wrestle good matches and to make his opponents look like stars, even then, some dispute it and say Bret only makes himself look good and makes his opponents look inferior, and worst of all, Bret (if healthy) would've been even more injury prone than he already had been in his WCW tenure, and had once been the WWF's top draw at a time when Vince McMahon was fighting the Federal Government for the Steroids Scandal which was the reason why Bret was the stopgap top guy until Austin emerged.

-6) "Macho Man" Randy Savage: Assuming that Savage never suffered a career-altering Torn ACL knee injury that he incurred in 1998 after years of working his trademark high-flying, fast-paced style for so many years plus his foray into the Major League Baseball before he even got into pro wrestling, Savage probably would've been a major risk in the similar manner as Bret. Savage left the WWF in 1994, also on terrible terms. Although Savage's issue was more likely that he didn't want to be seated as a full-time commentator for the WWF's New Generation era, and had things worked out in his favor, maybe Savage would've been much more valuable to the New Generation. But then again, maybe the Steroid Scandal meant that Savage would've had to either wear a full-on body suit a la Warrior 1992 or wear a shirt for almost all of his matches in 1993 and 1994. Plus, Savage wanted to prove that he could still put on great matches, and boy he did, making Diamond Dallas Page into a big-time star in his last great feud in 1997. Vince's issue with Savage would more than likely have been Savage taking the Slim Jim sponsorship away from Vince and the WWF, and Nash was supposed to be the WWF's next spokesperson for Slim Jim, but Slim Jim was more of Savage's mainstream emblem, and with Savage's knee injuries it meant a change in style for him, going from a flashy, fast-paced high flyer into just another stiff musclebound brawler.

-7) "The Total Package" Lex Luger: Had been subject to rumors of bad backstage behavior (similar issue as Steiner, and although Steiner is the worst offender in regards to being an attitude problem, Luger mostly comes off as harmless even if he did occasionally sulk and pout for he and Buff refusing to put over Chuck Palumbo and Sean O'Haire in 2000), disinterested and lazy performances (similar issue as Nash even though Luger could do a bit more in the ring than Nash), was believed to have been ashamed of wrestling the moment he switched careers from NFL player (ie: Green Bay Packers player) to pro wrestling, was credited with being the first pro wrestler to have taught many of his peers and contemporaries how to wisely save their cash for retirement and yet Luger doesn't get any credit for being the first guy to be the true innovator of guaranteed big money contracts before Hall and Nash even came along and get all the credit for big money contracts. Luger also left the WWF on bad terms in 1995 for going back on his handshake agreement with Vince to return to WCW, had a growing drug issue that got worse when he married Miss Elizabeth in 1999 and contributed to her death in 2003 and arrests for substance abuse issues.

-8) "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig: Hennig wasn't as valuable as Hall as far as talent, upside, injuries and personal issues since Hall at that point was still valuable, Hennig used to have a pristine reputation in the 1980s WWF and into 1990-91 for being someone who kept his nose clean as far as backstage troubles go besides the one moment with Jacques Rougeau vs The British Bulldog, although to be fair, Bulldog, Dynamite Kid and Rougeau were notorious Grade-A jerks, years before his broken tailbone back injury meant that Hennig saw his formerly pristine rep take a massive black eye just for trying to deal with his back injury via alcohol and cocaine, and had to be the first to use the Lloyd's of London insurance policy and became tagged as an often-injured midcarder whose next notable instance of being missing in action via substance abuse had to be turning up drunk to a show one week before WCW Starrcade '97 indicating that Hennig did sometimes let his substance abuse affect his performance. Hennig was a member of the Hennig wrestling family with Larry "The Axe" Hennig as his father, and Joe "Curtis Axel" Hennig.

-9) Hulk Hogan: Hogan became The Man of wrestling when he helped turn pro wrestling from a strict Regional/Territorial setting into the mainstream of pop culture with the help of Vince McMahon and the WWF Machine in the mid-1980s, the cornerstone of the WWF's Golden Era from 1984-1991/92 and also the WCW's NWO era from 1996-1999, considered the longest-lasting moneymaker than Steve Austin and The Rock as far as longevity and staying power go, but also had a penchant for notorious backstage politics since the advent of Internet in the 1990s, testified against Vince in Vince's court case for the Steroid Scandal which severed the Hogan/Vince working relationship for the worse, was rumored to have been refusing to do jobs unless he got his way to the point that even if Hogan willingly did job it was to someone who would implode bad to warrant Hogan getting his win back, demanded to have Creative Control clauses included in almost all of his contracts and was granted most of them, and just had a defamation lawsuit against Vince Russo two years ago. Otherwise, Hogan's positives most definitely outweighed his backstage negatives to the point that the WWF was ambiguous about being interested in bringing Hogan back, and thus Hogan is the idealistic guy to personify for the 1980s pop culture.

-10) "Big Sexy" Kevin Nash: Nash got his first big break when he joined the WWF in 1993 as Michaels' bodyguard named Diesel, and became the WWF's top draw for much of 1995 when most people blamed him for being the WWF's lowest drawing champion until Michaels bombed on his own the following year, left the WWF for WCW because he and Hall couldn't stand working with Bret. Nash gets a bad reputation because of being a member of The Kliq and learned from Triple H about how to position himself as a top executive and top booker beyond petty politics. Upside is that Nash was never known to let his drinking affect his performance which he credits with being close to 300 pounds to avoid passing out drunk like Hall, HBK and Waltman often did, so Nash spent more time in the gym with HHH. Unlike Hogan, fans scoff at Nash in regards to being the top draw and blame him for being the direct cause of WCW's demise. Even if the smarks were right about Nash being at fault for WCW's demise, it still didn't change the fact that Nash's positives far outweighed his negatives like Hogan. Nash is the realistic personification of the cutting edge 1990s pop culture and antithesis to Hogan's 1980s pop culture.

-11) "The Nature Boy" Ric Flair: Despite his issues with marital problems, drinking problems and wild money spending lifestyle, Flair was regarded as a stand-up guy backstage who was willing to job to people when he was asked to, follows the script, puts over younger talent. Flair's only weaknesses were being an aging performer who has to be a quasi wrestler/manager and being an undercover two-faced backstage yes-man who has to say the cliche right things about wherever company he was working for, and trashing other wrestling companies. Flair was regarded as the biggest star of the 1980s National Wrestling Alliance in opposition to the 1980s World Wrestling Federation spearheaded by Hogan. Flair also had issues with Jim Herd and Eric Bischoff in the past, though both of his WCW firings portrayed Flair in a sympathetic light, especially 1991 and 1998.

-12) Sting: Regarded as the biggest star of the 1990s World Championship Wrestling, biggest moment of his wrestling career had to be Starrcade 1997 vs Hogan which ruined a 12+ month buildup for Hogan's shenanigans although Sting had too much ring rust on account of his issues with painkillers, became a Born Again Christian in 1998, never had any controversial track record of playing the petty politics, and was the guy who WWF was interested in signing, but Sting refused. Sting also didn't like the WWF's Attitude Era programming, though his reasoning was valid because he just became a Born Again Christian years earlier, and though Ruthless Aggression wasn't as vulgar as Attitude, Sting thought it was the same stuff. He also was worried about how his Sting character looked after seeing The Rock demolish Booker T in all facets of wrestling. But more importantly, Sting didn't want the travel and the workload of being on the road 300+ days a year. If he did, Sting would've relapsed on his substance abuse issues, and it almost put him so close to being divorced from his wife like what almost happened in 1997, so Sting made sure to wait until WWE went back to PG programming.

-13) Bill Goldberg: Quickly became one of WCW's fastest emerging superstars in the late 1990s in the NWO era, Goldberg's truest best moment was his WCW World Heavyweight Championship Belt victory over Hogan in the Georgia Dome on June 1998. Even then, Goldberg's meteoric rise to success earned him his trademark win streak before netting his first loss against Nash at Starrcade 1998. Sure, Goldberg might be an untrained wrestler taught by incompetent WCW Power Plant trainers, but Vince likely saw his quick meteoric rise to superstardom as the sole reason why Goldberg's positives outweigh any trouble he may have had backstage.

-14) Marcus "Buff" Bagwell: Was notorious for being a mama's boy in the wrestling industry, developed a negative attitude dating back to his early days in the early 1990s WCW when he was still a jobber stuck on tag teams until he got his first big break as Buff Bagwell in 1996, and even then, Bagwell's attitude grew worse as Buff, in the process of going from being able to perform his Buff Blockbuster suplex move to crisp perfection into a state where Bagwell can't even properly execute his own suplex move. Had a broken neck in 1998 that would've positioned him to be a face, but most of his talent had to be as a heel since Bagwell's whole charisma and appeal were 100% natural born heel like Steiner. Bagwell's weaknesses were that he was nothing special on his own as far as talent goes, and it is more than likely that Bagwell needed the likes of at least either Sting (early 1990s), Scott Steiner (late 1990s nWo era) and/or Lex Luger (early 2000s) to be placed in the right role as the designated sidekick for any of those three guys and also made to look passable in the right situations.

After having stated the background information in a proper context as their prologue pre-WWF bio heading into the WWF's new era post-WCW buyout, the end results were that Hennig got fired for shoot fighting Brock Lesnar in the infamous 2002 Plane Ride from Hell, Hall chose to leave the WWF because he was awarded sole custody of his two kids over his ex-wife, Bagwell got canned for having a fight with Shane Helms and for supposedly calling his mother to phone Jim Ross to mark Bagwell sick, Luger stayed unsigned because of his poor showing in TNA, Bret had a stroke, Savage was out of the public eye and didn't want to return to the WWF, Goldberg remained a success until he voluntarily retired from wrestling, Nash remained a key player until injuries started to pile up to the point that Nash cannot continue working full-time anymore, DDP had to retire prematurely due to chronic back problems, Sting didn't want the workload and the travel, Steiner didn't change his attitude and once again left the WWE on bad terms, Booker T lasted for several years and went on to have two major post-Invasion runs by fighting Triple H at WrestleMania 19 (2003) and his run as King Booker thus remains on good terms with WWE, Hogan remained a successful key player even if he only stayed full time for less than a year but had maximum impact with his short term stints against Randy Orton, HBK, & Vince McMahon; and Flair also remained a key player for most of the 2000s though he was alternating between wrestling and managing and age got the better of him by WrestleMania 24 (2008) when he lost a career-ending match against Shawn Michaels.

Essentially, WWE was making a lot of money already with a star laden roster so they weren't in need of the troublemakers from the WCW roster. They had no control over the others who saw more value in delaying their debuts, waiting for better deals while collecting their Time Warner contracts.

With all that said, rate how much of each of the potential massive backstage troublemakers would have been divisive based on a scale from:
0: Harmless
1: Seldom
2: Minor
3: Ambigious
4: Problematic
5: Alarming
to
6: Extremely Cancerous
___
Along with their overall work performance based on their returns to the WWF or (in the case of Luger, Savage, Bret and Sting) past history of behind the scenes issues, to make the best/worst of the wrestler's overall work performance/potential problem ratio of the following overall work performance levels:
6: Spectacular
5: Solid
4: Ordinary
3: Boring
2: Disappointment
1: Atrocious

Last edited by TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP : 02-01-2017 at 10:51 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-01-2017, 11:57 PM
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I'll just break it down by category

MINOR

1) DDP; Booker T, Nash, Hogan, Bret, Flair, Sting, Goldberg.

I would categorizes these wrestlers as strictly "backstage politicians". No issues with substance abuse, no issues with domestic violence, no issues with them missing shows or potentially "no-showing". These were professionals and some of the biggest names in the history of pro wrestling. The only issues these guys would bring to the table are creative differences and maybe financial issues (in the case of Hogan). Obviously Nash, Hogan, Bret, and MAYBE Goldberg would be "riskier" than the others but they would also have a bigger payoff as all three are MAIN EVENT talent so the risk would be worth the reward.

Then you have PROBLEMATIC

These are your Scott Steiners and Buff Bagwells. Guys who have a reputation for getting into physical altercations backstage with talent and with non-wrestlers alike. Both had high-profile incidents involving physical altercations backstage. I think the RISK would higher than the REWARD in both cases obviously a little higher in Steiner's case.

Then you have the EXTREMELY CANCEROUS

Here is Scott Hall Lex Luger and Curt Hennig. All three have substance abuse issues whether it drugs and/or alcohol. In the case of Hall and Luger you not only have substance issues but legal issues as well. Hall had been involved in a number of alcohol related legal issues since 1998 including groping a woman and getting his foot run over a limo. He also got into a domestic dispute with Brad Siegel's daughter overseas leading to his departure from the company. Luger obviously was connected to the death of his girlfriend Miss Elizabeth who was found dead of an overdose. Multiple drugs were seized from Luger's home. There was also the domestic violence incident between Luger and Elizabeth. This all happened AFTER the Invasion of course but there was no question about Luger's toxicity at that point. In all three cases the RISK would be MUCH HIGHER than the REWARD and if given an opportunity all three would have to be on an EXTREMELY SHORT LEASH which is what happened as Hall and Hennig were only with the WWF for a few months before screwing up.
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Old 02-02-2017, 12:57 AM
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Ok, so all of this is assuming health and contracts werent that good or not good enough to set around and do nothing. So let's go.

-1) Diamond Dallas Page: he was VERY harmless with troublemaking so 0 there with ease....as for in ring work, i'd give it a solid. it wasnt great, but it wasnt dull to watch, if health and the right booking, he could've been so much beter for the WCW/ECW vs. WWE story.

-2) Booker T: honestly, what you see above about DDP is how i feel about Booker T.

-3) "Big Poppa Pump" Scott Steiner: as for Scott, outside the ring, he wasnt the best guy, so 0 is not an answer here, but he's not so awful that he hurts the business, so i'd give him a minor here....as for in ring ability, pretty much a 4 here, just ordinary.

-4) Scott Hall: as far as in ring work is concerned, he's with Booker T and DDP, however, he's more trouble than he's worth due to his issues...i wont say cancerous, but 4 is what he is, he's problematic, mainly because with Scott Hall you'd have to worry if he'll show up sober.

-5) Bret "The Hitman" Hart: in the ring, he's the best (when healthy), however, if he returned to WWE then and now, i think they'd be a few issues to work out with, not anything at 4, but 3 because he'd have to forgive McMahon and Michaels sooner than he did.

-6) "Macho Man" Randy Savage: by that time that WCW folded, he was pretty much aging, so in the ring, he was VERY ordinary....wih his potential for trouble outside, i'd give it 1 if that.

-7) "The Total Package" Lex Luger: in the ring he's boring, so clearly a 3....outside of the ring, he also gets a 3 because of drug issues.

-8) "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig: outside of the ring, a 3 due to issues similar to Lex's, inside the ring, when he tries, he's very solid which is 4, but when he doesnt try that hard, it's 2.

-9) Hulk Hogan: inside the ring, he's a clear 3, not the best wrestler and he's much better with showing and talking and posing. outside it, as long as both were willing to work with the other, than he's no issue...i'd give it a 1 due to him wanting and asking for some things, but it wouldnt be as bad as it was with WCW.

-10) "Big Sexy" Kevin Nash: inside the ring he's a 3 or 2, his moves are more of a typicial big man and it's not interesting to watch. outside the ring, he's (like Hogan) a 1 only because he may play a bit of backstage asking.

-11) "The Nature Boy" Ric Flair: inside the ring, he was a clear 5, real solid despite his age and did a fine job in the ring. outside it, a 1. he wasnt a huge problem when he first came back.

-12) Sting: around that time, he was a 5 as well. he was good at working the crwod in his match and keeping them invested, even when the guys he worked with were awful at helping him. outside the ring, 0. Sting isnt a troublemaker and wasnt around that time.

-13) Bill Goldberg: in the ring, i'll be kind and give him a 4, but that's pushing it, he would've been great for the invasion....outside the ring, 1 but only because his aggression led him to (once) accidently hurting himself.

-14) Marcus "Buff" Bagwell: in the ring, a 3...he was always kinda boring....outside of it, a 2 becuase of how great he thought he was (which he wasnt).

honestly, if the WCW invasion of the WWE had Goldberg, Sting, Flair, Hogan, DDP, Booker T, and Scott Steiner (along with others like Mysterio and the guys that did come), then the invasion would've been much better. a dream match with Goldberg vs. Stone Cold would've been a must...Hogan vs. Rock would've been done much earlier and not to mention, Sting vs. Undertaker or Kane.
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Old 02-02-2017, 01:06 AM
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Nobody. the answer is nobody, Vince isn't ATM Eric you all saw what happened to Buff Bagwell and Scott Hall right? Nobody was going to be that kind of trouble for Vince he'd have just canned em.

Last edited by relentless1 : 02-02-2017 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 02-02-2017, 02:08 AM
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I don't see Bret agreeing to work for WWE back then even if he was healthy. He came back for his DVD and HOF induction, but that was it until 2010.
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:55 AM
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Does anyone think that Vince's ego got in the way of the Invasion angle reaching its full potential? The OP and others have posted a lot of details and I honestly don't know which are accurate and not--they all may be 100% spot on, I just don't know. I was interested back then, but not invested. So, a lot of this isn't in my memory.

But, regarding Vince, I always got the feeling his ego (or pride, depending on who you talk to) prevented this angle from being the monster that it could have been. Vince's well-documented habit of ignoring stars he didn't create and putting over those that he did seems to be a major factor in the Invasion not becoming all that it could have become.

Like I said, I am not as familiar with this angle as others, so I am asking--did Vince's reluctance to embrace the good things WCW created hurt this angle?
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Old 02-02-2017, 10:35 AM
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@Jack-Hammer

Luger's rep for lazy performances and disinterested work ethic problems all started after The Great American Bash 1991 when Flair got fired by Jim Herd, and WCW struggling across the board meant Luger got the bulk of the blame for WCW not doing well as their top heel champion. Strangely enough, Luger wasn't even angry at Flair for not giving him the coronation he was supposed to get as the crowned WCW World Heavyweight Champion.

Luger used to be a solid worker from 1985-1990/91, since he had more fire in him to perform well as an everyday full-time wrestler. 1991 was when Luger got a full strangehold on his newfound knowledge about backstage politics, and I think Luger and Hall only cared about getting paid handsomely and weren't big marks for winning top championship belts.

Some like to talk about that Hall and Hennig never became World Champions even though Hennig had the AWA World Championship Belt, yet Luger got several chances to be World Champion and those three guys were big-time substance abusers which were the reasons why both Hall and Luger were major question marks, and Steiner sadly was never given a chance to be more than the one-time WCW World Heavyweight Champion he ended up being, even though he had upside and the potential to be the World Champion for years to come. I guess I could say that Luger at least never touched a bottle of alcohol until WCW's twilight years in 1999 and his torn biceps tendon injury at the end of 1998.

Last edited by TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP : 02-02-2017 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 02-03-2017, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeenanGorilla View Post
Does anyone think that Vince's ego got in the way of the Invasion angle reaching its full potential? The OP and others have posted a lot of details and I honestly don't know which are accurate and not--they all may be 100% spot on, I just don't know. I was interested back then, but not invested. So, a lot of this isn't in my memory.

But, regarding Vince, I always got the feeling his ego (or pride, depending on who you talk to) prevented this angle from being the monster that it could have been. Vince's well-documented habit of ignoring stars he didn't create and putting over those that he did seems to be a major factor in the Invasion not becoming all that it could have become.

Like I said, I am not as familiar with this angle as others, so I am asking--did Vince's reluctance to embrace the good things WCW created hurt this angle?
I'd say no. What killed the InVasion angle was that the story was already over. You think WCW vs WWF--it would have made BILLIONS in 1998-99, it should make HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in 2002, right?

Wrong. A major driver of the Attitude Era and the Monday Night Wars was a compelling story--which of two rival companies, bitter rivals in the same small, strange world, would triumph over the other. Who would jump from WWF to the NWO in WCW? What would WWF do to get audience back from Nitro?

It was a fascinating mixture of reality and fantasy. The corporate competition was absolutely real. Some of the television was real--wrestlers were telling industry secrets on live television! The HArdy Boyz and the STeiners are actually brothers in real life, and Rikishi really is the Rock's cousin. So are Crash, Bob and Molly Holly really cousins? Are Edge and Christian actually brothers, or is that just a TV thing?

And the new audience basically didn't know how real the violence was, that Mick Foley nearly killing himself jumping off Hell in a Cell was not an rare case, just an extreme case--wrestlers were slowly killing themselves on our TVs all the time. "IT's okay, it's fake" we thought. Chris Benoit was still a beloved favorite, and CTE was not a term anyone knew. Austin missed a year for neck surgeries, but broken necks were not yet understood to be the norm.

That ended on the night of the final Nitro. WWF and Vince McMahon won. WCW and Turner and Bischoff and Russo etc lost. The story was over. All that remained were tired sequels trying to recapture the magic of a once-dominant franchise.

In the Monday Night Wars Era, pro wrestling to most of the TV audience was, basically, new, fresh and different. PArt of what made it different was the acknowledgement by the industry that it was fake--that made it a lot easier to watch and cheer for the violence like it was a movie and it was all special effects. (That started to fade as the career-ending injuries and broken necks started to pile up.) Another part was the intrigue of what was reality and what was fantasy--professional liars telling their secrets on television, while two companies undeniably were trying to outdo and often sabotage each other. We didn't know how real the Rock's 17 chairshots to MAnkind's head were, but we did know that two companies were genuinely competing for our attention, and neither was in control of the other's storylines.
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Last edited by johnbragg : 02-03-2017 at 08:05 AM.
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Old 02-04-2017, 09:44 PM
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Savage's last great feud wasn't with DDP. It was with Hogan. Their feud in 1998-1999 was amazing because it was pretty much real. The most underrated aspect of Savage's career was the months leading up to the ACL injury. He was fn fantastic as the NWO lone wolf. When he got hurt and Hollywood got the strap back, that was the beginning of the end for WCW. Oh and when they elevated Scott Steiner to world championship status.
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  #10  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilapierre View Post
Savage's last great feud wasn't with DDP. It was with Hogan. Their feud in 1998-1999 was amazing because it was pretty much real. The most underrated aspect of Savage's career was the months leading up to the ACL injury. He was fn fantastic as the NWO lone wolf. When he got hurt and Hollywood got the strap back, that was the beginning of the end for WCW. Oh and when they elevated Scott Steiner to world championship status.
@ilapierre : Is there anything you don't like about Scott Steiner's run as WCW's top heel draw and WCW World Heavyweight Champion in late 2000/early 2001? He was World Champion only once, and for most of the 1990s, higher ups talked about Scott Steiner as if he would be a potential World Champion for WCW and/or WWF, back when Scott was more focused on in-ring work as plain Ol' Scotty. However, wrestling to the tune of great consistent 5-star matches can only get you so far. Character is what sells the most tickets.

Lex Luger got to be World Champion twice, one in '91-'92 when he became WCW's top heel draw in place of the departed Ric Flair, at a time when WCW wasn't doing well across the board with Flair gone and Jim Herd ousted. Second was when he won it on the 100th episode of WCW Monday Nitro in 1997 when he defeated Hollywood Hogan to do so. Obviously, Steiner could do more in the ring than Luger.

Not to mention: back in the late 1980s/early 1990s NWA; Sting, Luger and Scott Steiner were looked at as three heir apparents to Ric Flair, should Flair retire at any time in the 1990s. Of the three, of course, only Sting lived up to his full potential as WCW's future and top draw because Flair was willing to make him a success.

Flair refused to put over Luger and Steiner in 1991. First, it was Steiner at the early 1991 Clash of the Champions match where Flair sandbagged Steiner's in-ring offense to a time limit draw, thus no Frankensteiner to finish Flair off for a pin. That's what led Scott to resent Flair for years, hence his shoot promo on Flair in 2000. Luger on the other hand, he held no personal grudges against Flair despite being screwed over for Flair's refusal to job the World Championship Belt to Luger at the Great American Bash '91 PPV.

Sting lived up to his potential, while Luger and Scott never quite reached their full potentials. After GAB '91, Luger was coasting and started to care more about his paychecks because it was GAB '91 when Luger was introduced to backstage politics when he had spent the previous six years giving pro wrestling the good old college try. Steiner never found his gimmick until his body broke down to injuries, and Ted Turner didn't even want Steiner as his World Champion to carry the company. Are you blaming WCW's eventual demise to the point that you're gonna pin it all on Scott Steiner?

Last edited by TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP : 02-04-2017 at 10:02 PM.
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