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  #1  
Old 01-27-2017, 06:22 AM
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Default Was Luna Vachon to blame for Sable's locker room problems?

I can tell Luna Vachon was a miscast mentor for Sable when they were in the WWF from 97-99. Vince should've found someone else who was willing to cater to Sable's in-ring game, and Jacqueline was the better choice. Luna had the same ambitions as Sable, in which the WWF Women's Championship Belt was elusive for her and she was seen as a veteran who needed to be threatened to make Sable look good and not mess up her looks, the same way Bret needed to be threatened to make Michaels look good at Montreal in 1997. What happened at WrestleMania 14 was that everyone else congratulated Sable for her match with Luna with roses and congratulations while Luna was ignored and in tears until Owen Hart consoled her and praised her for her in-ring game, speculating that Luna is just as difficult as Sable to work with and was the bigger locker room problem.

At the time, fans wanted WWF women who were valued for sillicone boobs and eye candy traits albeit those who kick ass. And to us, Sable was one of them, despite her locker room lawyer rep for refusing to learn how to take bumps. Luna sadly was neither favored by Vince McMahon, Vince Russo and the WWF nor did the Attitude Era crowd care about Luna Vachon. Plus, one of the 1990s themes was that sillicone boobs were the style back then, so Luna lacked sillicone boobs and got made to lay down like a dog by Sable for being threatened to play to Sable's strengths without messing up her face and looks or else Luna can go on food stamps, although Sunny also hated Sable. However, Sunny gets no love despite being the WWF's first downloadable female celebrity of some sorts because of her reputation as a ring-rat who slept with The Kliq, Shawn Michaels, Kevin Nash, British Bulldog and Bret Hart, and even Sandman and Sabu. It's laughable that Sunny is in the WWE Hall of Fame, yet Sable and Chyna aren't inducted, and it's likely Chyna never will go into the HOF before Sable does, and Sable is FAR overdue for a WWE HOF induction. Look at Sunny now, she's doing porn and she gets a free pass from Vince, Stephanie and HHH because of it, yet Chyna is forbidden from returning to the WWE for doing the same thing Sunny was doing now.

I understand you don't like the Attitude Era as much as I do, but you might like those juicy facts about the issues between Sable and Luna in the WWF, your input as to who deserved to be at fault more so than the other.

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  #2  
Old 01-27-2017, 06:37 AM
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Luna and Nattie are one in the same to me - women who have spent a career staying employed because of their last name, and never trying to push the envelope in the ring because of the fact that they know they will always have a job because of who they're related to.
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Old 01-27-2017, 06:44 AM
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So it's a thread about Luna Vachon and Sable, yet you still find a way to complain and moan about Bret Hart. You have an unhealthy obsession with him, lay off the hatred and negativity for a while, it's not good for you.

Also who's to say what caused Sable's locker room problems, the consensus seems to be she wasn't a particularly nice person anyway.

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I understand you don't like the Attitude Era as much as I do, but you might like those juicy facts about the issues between Sable and Luna in the WWF, your input as to who deserved to be at fault more so than the other.
Who on earth are you talking to? There are plenty of people on this forum that not only have fond memories but also STILL enjoy the Attitude Era. And they're not juicy facts, they come across more like speculation.
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  #4  
Old 01-27-2017, 06:54 AM
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So it's a thread about Luna Vachon and Sable, yet you still find a way to complain and moan about Bret Hart. You have an unhealthy obsession with him, lay off the hatred and negativity for a while, it's not good for you.

Also who's to say what caused Sable's locker room problems, the consensus seems to be she wasn't a particularly nice person anyway.



Who on earth are you talking to? There are plenty of people on this forum that not only have fond memories but also STILL enjoy the Attitude Era. And they're not juicy facts, they come across more like speculation.
@Fillet Club : This is not necessarily about Bret Hart. This is indeed about Luna Vachon and Sable. I was just comparing the two different situations, even though the Women's Division was less lucrative at the time than the main event. Bret was already gone by then anyway by the time Luna returned a month after Bret left, coming back as Goldust's new valet after Dustin Rhodes had to break up with Terri Runnels in real-life and kayfabe because Dusty Rhodes couldn't allow his son to live a successful and happy independent family life with Terri Runnels and their daughter Dakota (Dusty's granddaughter).

This was about Luna Vachon being told she better be a good worker and not to lay a scratch on Sable's good looking face or else Luna would be on food stamps aka being fired from the WWF in 1998. As it stands, Luna felt ashamed for trying to carry Sable to a good match. Sable was more popular with the young WWF Attitude Era fanbase than Luna was, because Luna was too old school, and Sunny had the potential to be just as awesome as Sable, but then she wore thin with the same fanbase that used to like her, but now forget about her in favor of Sable.

When you carry a popular good looking female to a good match and let her win, only to have her congratulated for a good match by a dozen of people backstage while you have only Owen Hart consoling you to make you feel better, that's exactly what happened to Luna Vachon. Sable got congratulated on a good match for a reason at WrestleMania XIV (14), since it was her that got the monster push as the WWF's most popular female alongside Chyna.
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Old 01-27-2017, 11:23 AM
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Luna is a wrestler I've been a fan of since the early 90s...Her character was ahead of its time, her promos helped to show that, not to mention she convincingly wrestled and beat men(both in the WWF and other feds) and she should've been at least a 2 time WWF Women'a Champion.

Also @Kamala316 that's laughable how you compare Nattie to Luna as 2 women who only kept wrestling because of their last name and that they never pushed the envelope in the ring. If you've watched Luna's matches against Alundra Blayze or some of her stuff in Japan you'd see Luna could in fact wrestle her ass off when need be, as could Nattie.

When you get down to it, Luna was never booked right so she languished in limbo because of it. In all seriousness, Luna could wrestle circles around the awkward Sable, who to me only had 1 good move which was the Powerbomb. Other than that I really didn't like her matches and never liked her promos.

At 3:30 in the clip below, Cornette explains why Sable was a bitch to work with during the Luna feud, citing her being afraid Luna would "hurt" her during an angle where Luna would hit Sable in the back of the head with the WWF Women's Title, so Luna had to basically "tap" Sable in the upper back with the belt. I remember seeing that angle on Raw, actually, Cornette's right in that particular statement.

Luna really should've been booked worlds better, especially in the Attitude Era...If she were simply an updated version of her mid 90s character, focused on(and winning) the WWF Women's Title, without being paired with Goldust in some asinine angle and actually beating Sable to win the WWF Women's Title, then things would've turned out for the best there. Seeing as how Sable was just about the only other woman WWF would've booked in a main event match at that time, that would've had to do.

So no, in conclusion I don't think Luna was to blame for Sable being disliked in the locker room, but instead it most likely fell on Sable simply being a bitch backstage, which Cornette's statements imply(and I wouldn't be surprised if there were truth to that).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKsQnLMApn4
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  #6  
Old 01-27-2017, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulblazed View Post
Luna is a wrestler I've been a fan of since the early 90s...Her character was ahead of its time, her promos helped to show that, not to mention she convincingly wrestled and beat men(both in the WWF and other feds) and she should've been at least a 2 time WWF Women'a Champion.

Also @Kamala316 that's laughable how you compare Nattie to Luna as 2 women who only kept wrestling because of their last name and that they never pushed the envelope in the ring. If you've watched Luna's matches against Alundra Blayze or some of her stuff in Japan you'd see Luna could in fact wrestle her ass off when need be, as could Nattie.

When you get down to it, Luna was never booked right so she languished in limbo because of it. In all seriousness, Luna could wrestle circles around the awkward Sable, who to me only had 1 good move which was the Powerbomb. Other than that I really didn't like her matches and never liked her promos.

At 3:30 in the clip below, Cornette explains why Sable was a bitch to work with during the Luna feud, citing her being afraid Luna would "hurt" her during an angle where Luna would hit Sable in the back of the head with the WWF Women's Title, so Luna had to basically "tap" Sable in the upper back with the belt. I remember seeing that angle on Raw, actually, Cornette's right in that particular statement.

Luna really should've been booked worlds better, especially in the Attitude Era...If she were simply an updated version of her mid 90s character, focused on(and winning) the WWF Women's Title, without being paired with Goldust in some asinine angle and actually beating Sable to win the WWF Women's Title, then things would've turned out for the best there. Seeing as how Sable was just about the only other woman WWF would've booked in a main event match at that time, that would've had to do.

So no, in conclusion I don't think Luna was to blame for Sable being disliked in the locker room, but instead it most likely fell on Sable simply being a bitch backstage, which Cornette's statements imply(and I wouldn't be surprised if there were truth to that).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKsQnLMApn4
The Vinces were right though. Sable was HUGE. She might, and probably was a bitch but she was money which is what they want in a talent.
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Old 01-28-2017, 05:40 PM
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The fact that Sable was having an affair with Vince had a lot to do with Sables attitude backstage. she felt she was bigger than anyone in the company at that point. whatever problems Luna had stemmed from that. Luna felt people should make it because of the hard work and talent they had not because of who's bed you were in. They had a backstage fight and Luna got released because a: WWE had more invested in Sable as a character and b: Sable was screwing Vince. her rep was so bad backstage that X-Pac shit in her bag...twice. its also why she got fired pretty promptly.. Luna also had the fact that she outed The fabulous Moolah as basically prostituting some of the young female wrestlers out. Luna stated she had been sent out barely clothed to be photgraphed by older men, also some of the girls got sexually assaulted on these jobs. WWE would hear no wrongs said about Moolah so this contributed to her being fired
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Old 01-29-2017, 04:39 AM
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I had heard the Moolah stuff - it was also still relatively close to the Patterson/Garvin/Phillips timeframe so they were sensitive about it... but also it fed into the female ref controversy, where she accused Vince himself of harrassment. Not sure they fired her for it though as the mindset would have been "keep her close" rather than pissing her off and having her talk... until they'd completely destroyed her by making her look crazy of course.

Reality is nothing as sinister as you guys are painting... you had a 2nd generation wrestler, related to at the time considered the greatest Womens wrestler in history (Vivian Vachon) against the model wife of a midcard talent, there cos BOTH Vince's had a crush... Russo too admits how he was basically "in love" with Sable at the time.

In the ring it was always going to be mismatch, add to that the Vachon rep of being a little out there and never too afraid to go into business for themselves and you have a recipe for disaster. If Vince and co wanted Luna out or to talk up "the crazy" side, would only take a few whispers about what the family had done to have Sable paranoid... remember Sable would have no clue about the history of the business and Marc was not being listened to at that point, even if he was trying to smarten her up.

Luna may well have had a chip on her shoulder about Sable, and Sunny, and Chyna.. She was doing aspects they all did years earlier but wasn't getting the respect from the company or the girls. It's easy to see why she ended up bitter and ultimately dying the way she did.

Sable of course was a master of politics... she took advantage of Mero, then the Vince's then Brock... Most people remember Luna as deserving better than she got, but ultimately she never did the politics the same way as the others so was further down the line.

I've hear Nattie referenced in this thread and that's interesting... she IS now in a similar position, only she had Tyson and his injury... She has a job for life now cos of that...and she'll get good money. Even if he sues, it's not worth them opening the can of worms with the Harts again... She'll probably get her own contract and half or more his going forwards...
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Old 01-29-2017, 04:50 AM
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I had heard the Moolah stuff - it was also still relatively close to the Patterson/Garvin/Phillips timeframe so they were sensitive about it... but also it fed into the female ref controversy, where she accused Vince himself of harrassment. Not sure they fired her for it though as the mindset would have been "keep her close" rather than pissing her off and having her talk... until they'd completely destroyed her by making her look crazy of course.

Reality is nothing as sinister as you guys are painting... you had a 2nd generation wrestler, related to at the time considered the greatest Womens wrestler in history (Vivian Vachon) against the model wife of a midcard talent, there cos BOTH Vince's had a crush... Russo too admits how he was basically "in love" with Sable at the time.

In the ring it was always going to be mismatch, add to that the Vachon rep of being a little out there and never too afraid to go into business for themselves and you have a recipe for disaster. If Vince and co wanted Luna out or to talk up "the crazy" side, would only take a few whispers about what the family had done to have Sable paranoid... remember Sable would have no clue about the history of the business and Marc was not being listened to at that point, even if he was trying to smarten her up.

Luna may well have had a chip on her shoulder about Sable, and Sunny, and Chyna.. She was doing aspects they all did years earlier but wasn't getting the respect from the company or the girls. It's easy to see why she ended up bitter and ultimately dying the way she did.

Sable of course was a master of politics... she took advantage of Mero, then the Vince's then Brock... Most people remember Luna as deserving better than she got, but ultimately she never did the politics the same way as the others so was further down the line.

I've hear Nattie referenced in this thread and that's interesting... she IS now in a similar position, only she had Tyson and his injury... She has a job for life now cos of that...and she'll get good money. Even if he sues, it's not worth them opening the can of worms with the Harts again... She'll probably get her own contract and half or more his going forwards...
To be honest, THTRobTaylor. I think Vince could've either gotten someone else to cater to Sable's strengths. Wrestling and in-ring skills didn't matter for everyone in the Attitude Era. In this case, I did admit Vince McMahon could have gotten Jacqueline since Sable and Jacqueline are the only ones who were prominent in the WWF Women's Division for most of 1998.

Sunny could've done better with Sable than Luna Vachon ever tried and failed to do. But then again, Sunny also hated working with Sable, so it wasn't until Jacqueline emerged as a key player in the Women's Division that Sable finally had a decent opponent who was at least willing to tolerate working with her in the ring, as long as she made money the way she did in the mid-to-late 1990s.
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Old 01-29-2017, 06:39 AM
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Don't forget Jackie and Jarrett were kind of a thing so she suffered a bit for that with his flipflopping between WCW and WWE and she was quite old school... so again Sable would have not liked her/been paranoid of being hurt by her. Perhaps more than Vachon in some ways as Jackie would have "more to prove" than Luna, who at least had her name and a gimmick that played.
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