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  #11  
Old 01-23-2017, 01:00 PM
Jonyboyuk2 Jonyboyuk2 is offline
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Bret did not sue because he broke his hand when he broke Vince's jaw. They would have counter-sued each other and it wasn't what Bret wanted. He was genuinely scared he would have his matches and back catalogue of matches destroyed by WWF.
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  #12  
Old 01-23-2017, 01:28 PM
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Well if you want to be technical then YES Bret did the bring the "Screwjob" upon himself by refusing to job cleanly to Shawn Michaels but as well know the story is more complicated than that.

Bret did the job at WrestleMania 12 with the full expectation Shawn would return the favor down the line. Bret knew Shawn was the guy Vince was going with and wanted to put himself in a position to draw money with Shawn for years to some so he started building the angle with him starting that night in the ring when Bret walked off without shaking hands. Then Bret started trashing Shawn in the media. According to Bret he was "working" but Shawn, unbeknownst to him, was taking things personal. Shawn was also very insecure about his position as WWF Champion at the time because business was suffering. Shawn also resented Bret for taking time off during his reign as champion and not supporting him when Shawn (who was IC champ) worked in support of Bret when he was WWF Champion. So seeds of resentment were being sown between Shawn and Bret on both sides.

Then came the contract. Hall and Nash had jumped to WCW. WCW had just made a 3 million dollar per year offer to Bret. Now it depends who you believe, but Bret got the 20 year 1.5 million dollar contract out it. It made him the highest paid WWF Superstar which irked Shawn even more since we knew his run was ending and Bret (by virtue of his contract) would be getting the push. As a result Shawn [b]throws a tantrum and refuses to work with Bret at WrestleMania[b] This is documented in Shawn's book. So YES Shawn refused to work with Bret at WrestleMania. Shawn comes up with the knee injury (which he's had since 1990) to keep from getting pinned and it leads to more resentment on Bret's part because Shawn refuses to "return the favor".

Meanwhile Bret turns heel and does his anti-American gimmick. Shawn is still a babdyface at the time and he and Bret continue to go back and forth leading to "worked-shoot" promos where they attack each other personally. Bret tries to defuse the situation leading to a tepid truce. The truce is broken with the "Sunny Days" comment. Bret hurts his knee and his match with Shawn is delayed. In reality, Bret was afraid of hurting Shawn over the Sunny comments. Bret continues to ignore Shawn until the Hartford incident where both men fight in the locker room. Shawn storms into Vince's office and threatens to leave (again how can you blame Bret to leveraging WCW against Vince when Shawn does the same thing)

Vince meets with Shawn and I STRONGLY believe this where Vince decides he needs to get rid of Bret Hart. Vince turns Shawn heel as is immediately in competition with Bret. So Vince again plays both against each other. Shawn becomes the number 1 heel feuding with Undertaker while Bret (now as WWF Champion) feuds with Patriot. Bret is frustrated. Vince is sowing seeds with Bret, first telling him he needs to pay him the money owed to him on the back end of his deal and then outright saying he can't afford to pay him and seek employment with WCW. Bret is SHOCKED by this "admission" in reality it was a way to get rid of Bret Hart. SO Bret (on orders from Vince) negotiates with WCW. He is able to secure a contract from WCW but again Bret DOES NOT want to leave. He simply asks where is character is going and basically told he will never be the top guy again. He will put over Shawn multiple times before finally winning a match on RAW. Vince knows this will be unacceptable to Bret. Bret says to Shawn he has no problem putting him over but Shawn basically spits in his face saying he will not do the same. This is where BRET REFUSES to lose to Shawn using Canada as an excuse. We all know it comes down to

1) Shawn not returning the favor
2) the "Sunny Days" comment
3) Vince choosing Shawn over Bret

Bret does the unthinkable and refuses to do the job to Shawn. According to Bret to offered to drop it BEFORE the PPV or AFTER but wanted to Shawn to put him over first. Soit comes down to two prima donnas who HATE each other and a boss who is in love with one of the prima donnas at the expense of the other. The rest is history. So how does Bret get blames for this? When it was Shawn who refused to put Bret over and Vince who allowed Bret to negotiate with WCW?
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  #13  
Old 01-23-2017, 03:21 PM
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There was no clear cut "good guy and bad guy" when it came to the Montreal Screwjob as both sides did and said things that they shouldn't be proud of.

On one hand, Vince should've have told Bret Hart that he accepted Hart's decision not to drop the title in Canada. Vince could have taken the high road and said that his decision was final; it may have hurt Survivor Series if Bret simply threw down the belt and told Vince to go screw himself but every once in a great while you should put principles ahead of money. If Bret Hart agreed to do the job, Vince could've had him followed to make sure he didn't just take off with the belt and show up on Nitro with it as Vince was afraid was going to happen. If that'd happened, then Vince could say all these years later that he was 100% in the right.

On the other hand, Bret Hart could've been professional enough to do his job. He was leaving the company anyhow for a big fat WCW contract and with Hart being the traditionalist he always claimed to be, dropping the title in his last match for the company to his successor was the traditional thing to do. When it all boils down to it, Bret Hart let his own ego for not wanting to lose in Canada and his personal dislike of Shawn Michaels get in the way of being a pro.

So did he bring it upon himself? Well, yeah I think so when you look at it from the perspective of both sides. They did each other dirty, no question: Vince lied his ass off to Bret Hart about the whole issue of not dropping the title at the ppv while Bret Hart was essentially holding the company hostage via the implied threat to ruin the Survivor Series main event. Both sides could've taken the high road but neither one was willing to back down.
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  #14  
Old 01-23-2017, 03:30 PM
d_henderson1810 d_henderson1810 is offline
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The problem I have with Bret Hart is that, yes Shawn did the wrong thing by Bret, Vince did the same thing by Bret.

Yet, Bret criticizes Shawn for playing politics, and acting like he would never do that, and then does exactly the same thing.

It isn't that Bret was only doing what Shawn did first, it was Bret's self-righteousness in that he was better than Shawn, when his actions in the end show that he was no better.

Bret should have agreed to do the job at SS '97, and then could hold the high moral ground. But Bret prefers to play the victim.

Shawn played politics, and was a "bastard". The difference was, Shawn never claimed to be anything else (he hadn't cleaned up his life until many years later). Bret pushed his moral stance around, and often spoke about the "immorality" of things that WWE did. It was Bret's self-righteousness and hypocrisy that was the problem.

Also, Shawn said that he knew what was going to happen, everyone else knew what would happen (at SS '97), and he believed, deep down in Bret's heart, Bret "knew" what was going on to.

Two scenes in "Wrestling With Shadows" stand out to me. Bret asked Earl Hebner if "something was going down tonight" and if Hebner would call it down the line. Why would he ask Hebner this? If Bret never saw it coming, why would he ask the referee for his match these questions?

Also, Bret pulls Vince aside before the match, and goes to talk to him privately in the corner. But Bret is wearing a mike, so we can hear the conversation. Why would Bret record a private conversation, and not tell Vince?

I think Bret knew something was going to happen, but maybe not all the details. So to claim to be totally surprised is wrong.

In the end, Bret could have just kicked out of the submission Bret could have refused to do the match. What would Vince do, fire him? He was already leaving, so he could have turned the tables.

But Bret's image is all important to him. He has to look like the good guy in any situation, so blames others for things that went wrong, when some of it is his own fault.

Last edited by d_henderson1810 : 01-23-2017 at 03:33 PM.
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  #15  
Old 01-23-2017, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D. View Post
It is widely known that Bret didn't want to drop the belt to HBK. He had no problem dropping it to Austin or Foley though, on RAW the following night. That is known.

However Vince knew that Austin was not ready yet and wanted him to win the title at Wrestlemania. Vince also knew that Bret was getting old. Bret knew that Vince knew that, so Bret wanted to go somewhere else and make some more final money.

Then there's the 20-year contract. LOL. Why would anyone sign a freaking 20 year contract. No, why would anyone offer a 40-year old wrestler a 20-year contract? They wouldn't. It was a swerve from Vince, because he simply wanted Bret to leave, because he knew, that with the money he could save from getting rid of Bret's big contract, he could get Tyson at Wrestlemania and with HBK also in the mix, he could elevate Steve Austin and finally fight back against WCW.

It was a brilliant strategy from Vince and Hitler would be proud. But I can't accept the fact that Bret brought this to himself. Bret is one of those people who still had pride in themselves and a respectful name. HBK was an a-hole. He had screwed Bret on numerous occassions and he was there once again to screw Bret over and beat him. How could Bret accept that?

I'm sure if Vince had asked Bret for an extension until WM so that Austin can beat him there, Bret would have accepted. However Vince knew that he needed more for WM, something different, but didn't have the cash to go for it. So he had to let Bret go, protect the WWF title by not making it a hot potato and also have HBK, the last big star, put over Austin.
He wanted Bret to leave so he gave him a 20 years contract? Right. That makes all the sense in the World there, buddy. He should have just let him you know, walk since he was a free agent. The WWF have had all they need from him too. When he got offered this contract, it was after Mania 1996, after Shawn had defeated him and the WWF didn't even need Bret anymore since they had his success in Michaels.

The only reason they offered him that it's cause Vince panicked cause WCW had just taken Razor and Diesel. Since they realised Bret felt slighted but the sudden HBK push, they thought the only way we can match what WCW is offering is by offering him a sort of lifetime contract. What they didn't know was that Bret had no intention to go to WCW anyway, he was a WWF guy for life.

Then later on, not only the WWF was in financial diffulties but Vince realised you know, we don't really need Bret. Especially after he made Stone Cold at Mania.

Now as far as the screwjob, it happened cause Bret was too much of a mark. A mark for the business and himself. After the WWF let him go and had his contract voided so he could go to WCW, Bret should have just gone to Vince's office and say "there, take it, take the belt. I'm not in the WWF anymore". There would have been no debates, no crazyness, it would have made sense since Vince didn't want him anyway. But he had pride and thought the belt was important. But it really wasn't. Especially for his sakes.
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  #16  
Old 01-23-2017, 04:35 PM
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Now as far as the screwjob, it happened cause Bret was too much of a mark. A mark for the business and himself. After the WWF let him go and had his contract voided so he could go to WCW, Bret should have just gone to Vince's office and say "there, take it, take the belt. I'm not in the WWF anymore". There would have been no debates, no crazyness, it would have made sense since Vince didn't want him anyway. But he had pride and thought the belt was important. But it really wasn't. Especially for his sakes.
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It basically came down to Bret's EXTREME dislike for Shawn Michaels. He felt Shawn slighted him professionally in the case of the "return match". He felt Shawn disrespected him personally in the 'Sunny Days" comment and he felt Shawn was the main reason he was now being pushed out the door by Vince. He has said the main reason for refusing to do the honors for Shawn is he felt Shawn was disrespectful and didn't deserve the honor. If you want to call that "being a mark" I think Bret would tell you to call him a "mark"" then. He was always about doing business the right way. He didn't "forfeit" the title like Shawn had multiple times to keep from doing jobs, but he felt he could to the "job" for Shawn plain and simple.....and it cost him.
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  #17  
Old 01-23-2017, 05:08 PM
d_henderson1810 d_henderson1810 is offline
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On the Montreal Screwjob, and why Bret might not bitch about it as much and even returned to the WWE, I think I heard it summed up well one time (I can't remember who said it).

"When you have moved to WCW and are used as an afterthought, have a marriage breakdown, have your career ended because of an injury, you suffer two strokes, have a motorcycle accident, have your brother die in a wrestling accident, lose both your parents, and one of your best friends, whose house you have had dinner with, kills himself, his wife and his child, then maybe being screwed over at Survivor Series '97 might not be the worst tragedy to happen in your life".

Maybe Bret had a reality check, and was shown that a hell of a lot of worse things can happen than the "Montreal Screwjob".
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  #18  
Old 01-23-2017, 05:40 PM
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Maybe Bret had a reality check, and was shown that a hell of a lot of worse things can happen than the "Montreal Screwjob".
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I don't think those events had anything to with Bret not "bitching about it" (he sort of does it this day) or even his decision to return to WWE. He says he did forgive Vince when Vince contacted him after he suffered the stroke and that opened the door to not fully coming back to WWE but at least doing the HOF and DVD. I think alot of anger towards Vince dissipated after that. He didn't think about contacting Shawn till after watching his match with Undretaker and even then he wasn't sure. It tool a long while to reconcile and if you watch the Bret/Shawn DVD it still affects emotionally to this day which bring me to another question. How can so many people think this was a work when it took about 13 years to reconcile? You listen to guys like X-Pac, Hall, Nash, guys IN the business who are convinced this was some sort of work. Ifs it just hatred for Bret Hart. You can tell it emotionally devastated him.
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  #19  
Old 01-23-2017, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by New Hot Fed View Post
He wanted Bret to leave so he gave him a 20 years contract? Right. That makes all the sense in the World there, buddy. He should have just let him you know, walk since he was a free agent. The WWF have had all they need from him too. When he got offered this contract, it was after Mania 1996, after Shawn had defeated him and the WWF didn't even need Bret anymore since they had his success in Michaels.

The only reason they offered him that it's cause Vince panicked cause WCW had just taken Razor and Diesel. Since they realised Bret felt slighted but the sudden HBK push, they thought the only way we can match what WCW is offering is by offering him a sort of lifetime contract. What they didn't know was that Bret had no intention to go to WCW anyway, he was a WWF guy for life.

Then later on, not only the WWF was in financial diffulties but Vince realised you know, we don't really need Bret. Especially after he made Stone Cold at Mania.

Now as far as the screwjob, it happened cause Bret was too much of a mark. A mark for the business and himself. After the WWF let him go and had his contract voided so he could go to WCW, Bret should have just gone to Vince's office and say "there, take it, take the belt. I'm not in the WWF anymore". There would have been no debates, no crazyness, it would have made sense since Vince didn't want him anyway. But he had pride and thought the belt was important. But it really wasn't. Especially for his sakes.
But, 20 years?! It just sounds insane to me. I didn't know he was offered the contract after WM 12 though. Can you clear one thing for me though.. Did Bret ever sign that contract? Or was it on the table for 1+ year?
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  #20  
Old 01-23-2017, 06:55 PM
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But, 20 years?! It just sounds insane to me. I didn't know he was offered the contract after WM 12 though. Can you clear one thing for me though.. Did Bret ever sign that contract? Or was it on the table for 1+ year?
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Well you gotta remember Vince was desperate. he had just let Hall and Nash go and they were making it seem like it was full-blown WWE invasion which was skyrocketing their ratings, merch, house shows, and PPV's. Can you imagine if the FACE (yes the FACE) of the WWE for the last 5 years showed up on Nitro?!? It would've been a death blow to WCW especially if he joined the NWO. There was no way Vince could match what WCW was offering that's why he came up with the "20 year" lifetime contract.

Yes he did sign it. Vince gave Bret permission to break the contract. There was always this conspiracy theory that Vince wanted to secretly "get revenge" on the Hitman for using the contract offer from WCW to leverage Vince into giving him a new expensive contract and he wanted to "destroy" the Hitman character before giving him permission to go to WCW. In the least, it made Vince more receptive to the idea of "screwing" Bret.
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