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  #21  
Old 01-17-2016, 07:25 PM
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You seem like you have a pretty good grasp on the situation here, Phenom. I think you already knew what all the replies would be in this thread, but I'll post anyway - my contract states 5 nonspam post per year.

When you're young, you're damned good at lying. Not to other people mind you, but to yourself. Everything you do - emphasis on EVERYTHING - seems like the perfect answer to anything that comes across your path. There's a sort of mental disconnect with the rest of the world that you inevitably have, and it's one that is near impossible to realise while you're living in the moment. That's why when people get older, they often find things about their younger selves that make them cringe. Obviously you know where I'm going with this so I'll just jump to the personal anecdote.

I was considered extremely mature growing up. It was the usual mix of "hey you're smart", "hey you don't come across as a doofus when you speak" and "holy shit I just lost an argument/chess/monopoly to an 8 year old" that no doubt DJ experienced. I also thought I was rather mature myself - noticing girls and being very conscious of it before primary school is something I like to rub in the faces of the "girls are icky" crowd from that era that I still hang around with (not that girls aren't icky, Jesus those creatures sometimes... ) - but I recently turned 21 (yay) and man does looking back on the things that someone as "mature" as I was make me shudder even today. They're not even things I majorly regret doing or anything, but there's an indescribable Sideshow Bob stepping on a rake moment inside my brain when I recall the stuff in my past.

I guess the point of this post is to say to DJ - look, I know the adults around you do seem a little stupid sometimes, and yes you are probably more mature than most of them, but don't take that as an ego inflating "ha! I'm more mature than an adult!", instead try to realise that those adults are just immature and not the other way around. None of us can stop DJ from doing what he's doing, but the more stuff is said, the more things are likely to stick in his mind and that means he'll be able to think about it in a more in depth manner and possibly avoid cringing at himself when he gets older.
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  #22  
Old 01-18-2016, 12:07 PM
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I'm with you there. I too look back and cringe on some of the things I did as a teenager. Honestly it makes me feel old and I'm only 27. Feels like a life time ago.

Anyways, we postponed the lunch for yesterday instead of Saturday. We went to Magoos, a local bar that serves great food and his mother (Janine) and I talked. I explained what DJ had told me and the age of the boyfriend. She explained that she thought he was 18 and that she had met him and that he seemed like a nice young man. She asked what she should do and I said it was her decision and not mine. So she called the boyfriend (amazed me that she had his number and it reaffirmed my original opinion of her being a good mother) and told him to meet us at Magoos. I didn't think I should be there but she said she felt better with a man there, so I stayed. The boyfriend (I'm not going to mention his name) actually showed up, he has guts (I was going to say balls but it seemed inappropriate). So Janine explained her concerns and was real calm and level headed. I just sit there and nodded. Then came the question, do you love him? The boyfriend said yes and to throw another aspersion against DJ, the boyfriend thought DJ was 18 until about 2 weeks ago when someone posted something about DJ on Facebook. Of course he said that it was too late then, he had already fell in love. So Janine straight out asked him if he was sure he wasn't a kiddy rapist and the boyfriend said no and even showed us some of the texts where DJ was saying he was 18 and showed us DJs Facebook where he changed his date of birth and his online profile on the site where they met. It seemed like the boyfriend was a legit good guy and was innocent. So Janine said no more sex. They can continue to talk and hang out but no sex. He has a curfew of 9 and the first time that it's broken, they will no longer be allowed to see one another. He promised to abide by her rules and said thanks and left.

I can't give an opinion on how I would've handled it because IDK how I would've handled it. The boyfriend really does seem like a nice young man. Has a job, is going to college, and what not. Janine says she did that so her son wouldn't hate her which I can understand, but I still don't know if what she did was right.

What do you guys think?
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  #23  
Old 01-18-2016, 12:36 PM
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When it comes to situations like this, I disapprove of taking the "cool parent" route. Protecting my children is not a method of parenting where I'm going to be relaxed about. Especially while they're under 18. Career path is theirs to make, situations that are legally wrong are mine to make. We've all possibly have or will be in situations where love is blinding but DJ's partner should've thought about the consequences if he's ever caught or told on.

To each it's own, I guess it's codemned as still being morally wrong. It's just too much of a liability as a parent to allow that. I still wouldn't allow it and it's based upon my opinion above. The mother is going to tell him "no sex"? If DJ lied to his mother about his age then he'll lie about them having sex. If neither DJ nor the partner are mature about the decisions they made then how does the parent expect him to be mature about her demands?
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  #24  
Old 01-18-2016, 12:47 PM
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While I read the OP's experience with this issue, I admit that I haven't read anyone else's response. I apologize in advance if I beat a dead horse.

The law is in place to balance liberty and justice. There are laws meant to minimize the amount of harm done to our society by drawing lines in the sand where Congress decided it could allow for a certain amount of liberty while maintaining a standard of justice for those who may be victimized by those who abuse their liberty.

In the case of a 14 year-old homosexual boy who demands that he be allowed to have a sexual relationship with someone who is over the age of 18, I think he should be denied that right. Obviously I don't know him personally, and I'd sound very foolish if I waxed on about the mentality of children when I'll be the first to admit that I find it impossible to relate to young people these days.

It should be noted that the age of consent is all over the place in the US. It's my understanding that in Texas a 14 year-old can legally consent to intercourse.

The only reason I would deny that young man the legal right to have a sexual relationship with an adult is because of the bad things that would come as a result of sexual predators having a legal right to coerce minors. There's more harm in legally permitting sexual predators to have the ability to prey on children than there is in making it illegal for a mature-beyond-his-years 14 year-old to share his affection through sexual intercourse.

Over time, sex has come to represent more than just two people banging their privates together. People use sex as currency, or a way to punish or a means of asserting power over others. No matter what the reason for it; sex has consequences. Sex can be based solely on love, but it still has to be reasonably regulated due to the dangers it poses to a well ordered society. It stands to reason, in my opinion, that preventing underage sex is a necessary means of maintaining a well ordered society.
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  #25  
Old 01-18-2016, 01:57 PM
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This is a very interesting thread, Phenom - incredible considering the initial reaction to most/all (myself included) would be: WRONG

That said, it does pose some interesting scenarios. There is a footballer (soccer player) in England, Adam Johnson. He got charged last year with having sex with a minor (14/15 year old). Of course the reaction of fans was, 'paedophile, send him down'.

Then the news broke that he had met this girl, who he had intercourse with only once, in a nightclub. Nightclubs in the UK have a minimum age requirement of 18. Then pictures of her surfaced on line. I swear to you, if she'd have said she was 22, you'd have believed her. Suddenly, Johnson's defence became a lot more sympathetic.

It sounds from your story that DJ looks and acts a lot older than his 14 years, hence why the boyfriend was duped. So, whilst it still is technically dubious, the ball then falls in DJ's court. He claims he is mature, yet three things stand out that contradict this statement.

1) having sex since he was 8 - I'm sorry, that was plain wrong. I was aware of girls at 8 but wasn't sexually aware for another three years AT LEAST, and certainly no one at my age was aware of what anal sex was; but even if we were, it would be extremely rare to partake in sex at that age, Herero or otherwise

2) his, "I want it so it shouldn't be wrong" attitude - extremely childish, how et he presents his arguement

3) the very fact he is meeting men online and lying about his age

All of this screams to me that he WANTS to be more mature; what DJ actually needs is to slow down and enjoy his childhood, as once it's gone, he'll never get it back. He's plenty of time to be an adult, including sexual relationships, but for now he needs to enjoy things a teenager should be, not rushing things that could actually lead to longer term emotional damage.
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  #26  
Old 01-19-2016, 02:42 AM
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This is something I brought up after Paul Walker died.

People defended the dude having a relationship with an underage girl saying "Well they stayed together even after she turned 18 so he must have really loved her and he wasn't just a guy looking for underage girls."

I believe that there was a defense made by some people about her parents must have allowed it so it was okay.

My post here at the time wasn't so much just about underage sex as it was forgiving celebrities for things they have done that we would look down on them for while they were alive after they have died.

So I want to know why is it that people say this is such a horrible thing yet people will make an excuse for someone after they have died?

As if suddenly they were no longer wrong for what they did.

I understand the concept of not wanting to criticize the dead and all that but at the same time we shouldn't make excuses for pedophiles after they die.

If you're a pedophile you're a pedophile into your grave and if you think it's wrong when the person is alive then don't make an excuse for them in death.

A friend of mine posted an article about Rowan Blanchard, the actress who plays the lead role on Girl Meets World, talking about her sexuality and the girl is 14 years old. She's in between the ages of some of my nieces and nephews so I'm like "a 14 year old shouldn't be talking about their sexuality" and my friend said something about her being more mature than a lot of 14 year old girls though. To me it's still weird because to me she's a little girl.

In my state you do have situations where say a 16 and 17 year old in high school are dating and they may already have a sexual relationship, if the 17 year old turns 18 and the 16 year old hasn't turned 17 yet and they continue a sexual relationship then the 18 year old can now legally be arrested for that. I was nearly in that situation in high school where I was going to turn 18 that December and she was going to turn 17 in April of the following year, so 4 months, but we broke up in October and didn't have to worry about it luckily.

Had we not broken up though and had her parents caught us then they totally would have had me arrested.
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  #27  
Old 01-19-2016, 03:41 AM
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How is this even a discussion? If my sister, who turns 14 in a month, was having sex with a 21 year old I would A) Cut off his penis, and B) Call the police. In that order. 7 years at that age is a HUGE gap. And God I am tired of hearing about how both of them are 'mature' - BULLSHIT.

First of all, if DJ was actually mature, he wouldn't have lied about his age online. There is a huge difference between a 14 and 18 year old in sexual terms, and in law. If DJ were actually mature, he would have recognised that and ensured he didn't unwittingly make someone a peadophile. What he did instead, however, was the epitome of immature. He did what he wanted, with no thought to the moral or legal issues surrounding his lie, and didn't even tell the truth about said lie until he was found out. Protecting solely himself. Completely immature. Or rather, typical 14 year old who thinks they're mature, behaviour.

As for the boyfriend - not mature. If I was dating someone at my age, it could be Shawn freaking Michaels himself, and found out he was 14, that relationship would be over. 14 is a child. We all remember being 14, and I'm sure most of us would say we were a 'mature' 14 year old. However, looking back as an adult, I'm also sure most of us would say we weren't as mature as we thought we are - and none of us were ready for a sexual relationship with a 21 year old. There is just such a huge emotional difference between those ages.

Also, while I'm not suggesting this is the case in this situation (Though, honestly, we have no idea of the truth as we will never meet either person), it can be really easy to dupe a 14 year old into sex. Rape isn't always someone being 'tied down, drugged, or beaten' as you put it. A child can be 'forced' into sex in different ways, using emotional abuse. And that's why we have an underage law. Yes, sometimes it may seem a little excessive, but in situations like this you can never be too careful.
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  #28  
Old 01-19-2016, 10:16 AM
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I'd like to congratulate Phenom on having his eyes opened to the truths about underage sex after having a conversation with one 13-year-old. Surely this disproves years and years of psychological studies showing that this level of sexual activity at such an age is probably evidence that this kid is the victim of sexual abuse, as well as the fact that the men having "consensual" sex with him are likely doing it with little regard to his feelings and, while not necessarily sexual predators, are taking advantage of a naive boy who doesn't understand the difference between sex and a relationship.

tl;dr This kid should not be talking to Phenom about this stuff, he should be talking to a therapist like yesterday.
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  #29  
Old 01-19-2016, 12:29 PM
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I'd like to congratulate Phenom on having his eyes opened to the truths about underage sex after having a conversation with one 13-year-old. Surely this disproves years and years of psychological studies showing that this level of sexual activity at such an age is probably evidence that this kid is the victim of sexual abuse, as well as the fact that the men having "consensual" sex with him are likely doing it with little regard to his feelings and, while not necessarily sexual predators, are taking advantage of a naive boy who doesn't understand the difference between sex and a relationship.

tl;dr This kid should not be talking to Phenom about this stuff, he should be talking to a therapist like yesterday.
Sarcasm much? Alas, you're right though. My eyes were opened after speaking with a 14 year old boy with serious issues. Why? Because underage sex was never something that I thought about. After hearing my sister and DJ talking about it, though, I realized it was something that I needed to think about because my sister is getting older and is thinking about stuff like this as well. I made this thread and posted this topic because I really did not know what to do. I was forced into being the guardian of my siblings so they didn't have to go into the system. I wasn't ready for kids. Especially a teenager. So forgive me for wanting to have a discussion on this topic.
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  #30  
Old 01-19-2016, 12:42 PM
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What do you guys think?
I think you're trying to justify something that you know is wrong. This entire thing is unsettling. How do you know he's 21? He could be older, he's already said he was 18 and now it turns he's 21. He could be 25, 27 who knows.

End of the day this is a man in his 20s having sex with a child who is 14. You're justifying it and I don't get why. The language you're using really unsettles me "he's a great young man" there's 5-6 years difference between you and the boyfriend. No 27 year old calls a 21 year old a young man.

What sort of mother lets their 14 year old have sex with a man in his 20s so that the child won't hate her. That's fucked up.

Your story is also full of differing things, it doesn't make sense.
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